NoSoup

Although I'm not exactly certain what, if anything, it means, I learned tonight that humans have only three instinctual fears.

They are:

1) Fear of the Dark
2) Fear of Falling
3) Fear of Reptiles

As far as the instinctual fear of the dark is concerned, when I was very young, I always rationalized that if in fact there were creatures of the night out to get me in the dark, If I couldn't see them in the dark, they certainly couldn't see me in the dark.

Regarding the fear of falling, I have nearly a perfect example. One of my earliest childhood memories was being in my crib, and wanting out. I remember climbing up so that I was able to climb over the railing, but being afraid of falling off once I climbed over. The fear was so great, I stayed inside the crib.

Although I can't personally remember any instances where the instinctual fear of reptiles has come into play in my life, I do find it interesting that most society's look at the deviants (serial killers and the like) as cold blooded. Perhaps this ties in? Additionally, nearly every ancient culture had a myth regarding a reptilian monster - dragons, sea serpants, etc. Coincidence? Or our instinctual fears manifesting themselves in myths and legends?

I don't suppose this thread has any real point in it, except to maybe see if anyone else is willing to share stories regarding these fears, but nonetheless, I found the information rather intrigueing and thought I would share...

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nezmot

Where on earth did you hear this?

Sounds a bit ropey to me.

What about spiders? Bugs? Drowning? Getting stuck? These seem to me to fit the bill for possible instinctive fears (especially the last two) It seems a bit ridiculous to limit it to the three above.

So where did you learn about this, and how did they explain/define what an instinctive fear was?

NoSoup

I had watched a special about it.

I believe the definition of instinctual fear that they had used was a fear based on no prior experience - keep in mind, though, that instinct can be overruled by intelligence.

Although they certainly didn't try to say that humans aren't afraid of anything else, obviously, those are the only Instinctual fears that we are born with...

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The_Jazz

I think that instictive fear is one that all humans share at one time or another. Obvisiously, most of us get over these but not everyone - examples would be folks who work at night or in coal mines, sky divers and zookeepers or alligator wrestlers. Most little kids demonstrate the first two pretty much across the board, although I'm not sure about lizards.

I've never been afraid of spiders or bugs, drowning or getting stuck (where or in what?). I am afraid of strange dogs, especially large dogs, although I've owned and loved several of my own dogs. I know that it all stems from having to walk past a house with a standard poodle who loved to stand in his driveway and bark at me when I was about 5. Of all large dogs, I cannot stand standard poodles, although I love pretty much all the hounds and retreivers. But that's just me.

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ratbastid

Reptiles!? If you were to expand that to the general case of being afraid of any small creepy-crawley, then I can believe it. But I kinda like reptiles.

I understand what you're talking about, though. I saw a video one time of monkeys who had been raised in a lab setting and had never interacted with any other animal, but who get various toys and other objects left in their enclosure to entertain them. One day the researcher working with them left a rubber snake in their enclosure, and they freaked right out, and "killed" the snake. How'd they know what it "was"? There must be something instinctual going on there.

nezmot

Many people get scared when in water over their depth (especially when they don't know how to swim) and often prior to any experience (i.e. before they've learnt how to swim) though I have to admit that babies do seem to be quite happy in water.

Getting stuck might include getting one's head stuck inbetween railings, or stuck in a cave (unable to move) or caught in quicksand. The notion of being unable to escape *something* can be kind of scary.

I'm not ready to believe that the three things mentioned are the only instinctive fears, (especially based on a special). It just seems a bit too arbitrary to me.

NoSoup

Well, I had heard of these three before, but I had never seen them put together so well and raised such intrigueing questions before.

The argument isn't that humans aren't afraid of anything else, just that these fears arre instinctive (although can be conquered) to humans.

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frogza

Oh man, life was going great until I read this and found out I'm abnormal!

I have no fear of heights, reptiles or the dark.

I am deathly afraid of sharks though. As silly as it seems, sometimes I'll be in a swimming pool and suddenly this terror seizes me that there is a shark in the water. I can't get out of the pool fast enough. It is completelt irrational.

Zyr

The fear of the dark is less the dark, and more a fear of the unknown. Same with death, which incidently is probably a reason that people thoughout the ages turn to religion, but that's off topic.

A lot of other fears are just a fear of being out of control. Falling for example. You can't really do anything about it. Same with getting stuck.

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Ustwo

Buzzzzz wrong. I've always liked reptiles and loved going to places like Florida as a kid because I could catch them. I also had a pet salamander (yes its not a reptile, close enough). I used to annoy my mother bringing snakes home. No one taught me to be unafraid of reptiles, I never was.

Now my child is 18 months old and is starting to get a fear of strangers to a limited degree. Suddenly he is shy and stays close to mom when in a new place. No stranger has done anything bad to him, hes only been hurt when he does it to himself, but already he knows you don't trust someone the first second you meet them.

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Zeraph

I'm not sure I'd call them instinctual. Theyre more just naturally things that we tend to fear. I dunno if theyre built in. Fear of the dark is being uncomfortable loosing our primary ranged sense. I never remember being actually afraid of the dark, uncomfortable sometimes, yes.

Falling itself is uncomfortable, all our liquids inside move suddenly to a new position. It messes up your vestibular system (primary balance system). Fear of heights? Not everyone has that fear.

Fear of reptiles has already been covered, I remember having a pet iguana when I was really young and never remember being afraid of them. Never had a problem with snakes until I learned that some are venomous.

Grasshopper Green

I was never afraid of falling (or of heights) as a child...but I am very afraid of heights now.

I was afraid of the dark when I was very young, which I think is pretty normal, but I'm not afraid of it now. I'm not comfortable going to new places that are dark...but again, I think that's relatively normal.

I've never been afraid of reptiles, except for poisonous snakes or gators, with good reason. I don't particularly like animals that can kill me.

This is an interesting idea...but I'd like to know more about it before I made my mind up on it.

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Nimetic

What bugs me is this. How the f*** does a complex instinct like this get transmitted through DNA (and optionally, helper bits), in a single cell, from parents to offspring.

I know that's off topic. But it has always seemed amazing to me...

Nimetic

Fear of getting stuck... that's a new one.

Is that stuckophobia? No seriously... I can understand a fear of enclosed underground spaces (ie caves that could collapse).

But of getting stuck...? It's never bothered me, although these jeans do feel a little tight now I think about it.

Nimetic

Lets say that a fear of heights is instinctive, and I think it is - I've seen tests with kittens and glass floors in books. (Can't remember their result mind you..).

.. then... humans would still not have a uniform amount of this instinct. I'm particularly thinking also that we are primates.. in relation to height, so it's possible that our instinct on this issue is flaky.

Nimetic

For the record... I don't like leeches. Ever since I first saw one - I disliked them.

I'd prefer to find a spider on me than a leech.

nezmot

'Stuckophobia' - heh maybe, if that helps - It's more commonly known as claustrophobia though.

Nimetic, try getting stuck, either in some quicksand, with your head stuck in some railings, or with your arm trapped in a snare - and see if you like it or not.

I suppose you might not be afraid of it, just walking along, but once you're in that position, I would expect you to feel some sense of fear. Does that explanation help you understand better?

snowy

I've never been, and never was, afraid of reptiles.

In fact, I grew up fascinated by snakes. Still am.

The dark...a little. I couldn't fall asleep without the light on until I was six or so. Mom or Dad would have to come back after I'd fallen asleep and turn it off. Oddly, I didn't mind it if I woke up in the middle of the night and it was dark.

I have a fear of falling, yes, but I don't think that was instinctual. I think that fear is a conditioned one I've arrived at after years of clumsiness. Falling is very easy for me as I have a tendency to trip over the most invisible of rocks. I skinned up my knees several times as a child and a youth, and now have no desire to put myself in situations (skateboarding, rollerblading, etc) where falling would occur. However, I have no problem with falling into water off of waterskis, surfboards, or a tube. I also have no problem falling on the snow. I guess it's not really falling I fear, but the skinning of knees, elbows, and hands.

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stevo

You left out warewolves. those things are scary.

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Nimetic

Yup it does.

Although... I thought claustrophobia was defined as a fear of enclosed spaces. I know it's being picky, but this does seem different to a fear of being stuck.

For example, if claustrophobic, I could go pot-holing or caving (or down a pipe) - be in a small space but have no risk of being stuck... while still being scared yes?

On being stuck in a fence or something. It's not really happenned recently. I think I'd be highly frustrated but somewhat rational - sorta along the lines of if I'm not able to find my car keys or glasses after 15mins in the morning.

nezmot

I suppose claustrophobia would be the <i>irrational</i> fear of being stuck. Yes it happens to people when they're in enclosed spaces, but the thing they're specifically scared of is the idea that they wont be able to get out again. We would call it irrational to be scared of not being able to get out of a lift, or out of a cave, or a pipe, hence the claustrophobia tag, but it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about being stuck in a cave, when the tide is coming in for example, or getting trapped in a sinking ship, or getting caught in some machinery. It's the same fear, it's just more rational when the danger is real.

Knight Dragon

I believe fear is a learned reaction and not instinctual. I think that there tends to be confusion between instinctive survival reactions (fight or flight) and what is considered fear. When you blink your eyes at an incoming object, I don't think you're doing so out of fear; I think your body is reacting to a potential threat by instinctively protecting it from any debris that may enter your eye. Add to that the learned reaction of anticipating something harmful and then you have fear.

I don't think any of us are truly fearless. A lot of things have already been planted into our minds since we were infants. We may have subsequently learned to either suppress them or even overcome them, but this comes with a deliberate effort to confront a fear and defeat it. Otherwise, we are who we are because a lot of these fears resulted from learned behavior (think of how parents motivate children to stop certain behaviors---they use scare tactics---some of which we learn to dismiss right away, but still there are certain things that remain imbedded in our psyche).

xepherys

The fear of falling one is interesting. There was a study done on babies that had just entered the crawling stage. They had a large floor and their favorite toy was put on the other side of a glass floor so when the baby got to the edge, it could see far down. The babies would, invariably, NOT crawl over the glass to get toys, their moms or anything else.

As for dark, I have a hard time seeing this as instinctual rather than societal. Kids are often given nightlights, but often only after they are a year or two old. Babies don't seem to mind the dark, it's once kids hear scary stories and know what "monsters" are that they are afraid of the dark.

I also can't really see the reptiles one being instinctual either. In some primates, perhaps, but not in humans. Humans are so far removed from their "natural" state, that fears of animals are developed rather than inherent. Show a baby a snake... bet he/she doesn't get any more or less scared than if you show them a puppy. Maybe here and there, but across a group, I doubt there'd be much difference.

guthmund

Was this recently?

I remember a couple of years ago a special on the Discovery channel (I believe...I could be blowing smoke) that fell along similiar lines. It had to do with the evolution of the brain. It kept harping on the different systems of the brain, when they showed up and what effect it had on evolution. I seem to recall one of the fellows from the show said something similar. He said that humans are instinctually afraid of the dark, the creepy-crawlies and heights because...well, back then the dark was a dangerous place, filled with dangerous animals. The safest place to be was in the trees...with the spiders, the snakes, and the ever present threat of falling to your death in your sleep.

I don't have any substantial evidence to thrust forward....just a fractured memory. I don't know why I remember that...I'm not really afraid of any of those things. /shrug

Not that I don't have instinctual fear. For the longest time, I had an irrational fear of sharks, which is kind of funny because I grew up in the south....hundreds of miles, in any direction, from the coast.

That's an interesting idea.... Isn't this strictly a western phenomena?
I don't know a lot about eastern philosophy/religion/whathaveyou, but I was under the impression that dragons and sea serpents were...good? (for lack of a better phrase)

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NoSoup

Indeed. The show I watched said that there were basically three main portions of the brain, each "layer" of the brain basically goes backward in evolution, with the most recent and human layer on the surface, and the deeper you go, the more ancient it gets.


I don't believe it is just western culture that makes the reptillian monsters bad - from my understanding, eastern cultures believe that you may be able to win the favor of dragons by honoring them in a variety of different ways - sacrifices, dances, ect.

Although many people seem to believe otherwise, looking at the evidence scattered around the world, I would say that a reptile being an instinctual fear is the most validated by the evidence out of the three fears.

In nearly every major culture there were mythical reptillian creatures that could destroy you - even entire civilizations. Beyond that, not only in modern times, but throughout history unscrupulous people were often referred to as cold blooded, snakes, etc.

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streak_56

I would say that everyone has a fear of death, fear of failure, fear of the unknown, fear of falling and fear of the dark. I would say that everyone overcomes some of these or all of them. Fear of death comes naturally I believe as well as failure and unknown. Fear of falling stop well.... when one learns that falling short distances are not bad and that long distances are not so good. Fear of the dark as many of us know is overcome when we are wee little children.

I suppose that depending on our genetics or upbringing that there are some fears that would be different. Its a basic nature vs nuture type thing. Like are we predisposed to be afraid of spiders or are we afraid because they're depicted as being "scary" or "gross."

guthmund

Exactly! The reptilian brain, the mammalian brain and the neo-cortex (or something like that anyway... )

Maybe "bad" was a bad choice of words....perhaps malevolent? It seems in the West, anything remotely associated with 'the reptilian monsters' seems to be closely associated with some miasmic evil force whereas the East seems to honor and respect their 'reptilian monsters' because of the power they represent rather than because they are considered evil. Of course, like I said, I don't know much about Eastern philosophy and such.... I guess I shall have to remedy that.

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Lawn Furniture

I've read most of the replies and the post itself...
Instinctual fears is something that is ingrained in us as soon as we are born, hence it is impossible for us to fear anything until we first have the sensation of the initial stimulus.

ie
Fear of the dark = fear of the unknown
Fear of falling = fear of the landing
Fear of reptiles = fear of getting bitten, stung, attacked in general.

it seems that the fears listed so far are learned and not instinctual, we learned to be afraid and to fear each of the previously stated things.

i dont want to seem too cliche, but I will stick with the people are born without fear.

NoSoup

Lawn, I'm gonna have to disagree with you

There have been a slew of studies regarding instinctual fears - granted, not so much with humans, but with other animals.

The kitten experiment is a perfect example, as mentioned above. The kittens had no time to learn to fear falling, they instinctually did.

I don't think humans are too different...

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Lawn Furniture

hmm...

Well, considering the kitten experiment (without knowing the age of the kittens, how they were dropped etc.) it would be hard to know if that experiment can be considered valid for me.

Within the experiment factors such as age and the height that they were dropped quickly come to mind.

for example if the kitten was:
-being held about five feet above the ground,
-being cradled and then suddenly dropped.

Considering this, it can be stated that with most creatures
-being dropped after being supported in a stable environment (ie someones hands)
-the shock of being released and experiencing freefall may cause any creature to exhibit what can be considered fear and thus be coined to an instinctual fear.
when it can also be called the reaction to the effects of gravity, an unknown stimulus.

But your point has some interesting points, and since i haven't actually heard of the kitten experiment I will have to consider your argument.

stevie667

You'd actually be suprised how much behaviour is actually hardwired into the brain.

Its not really a case of 'well, specimen X didn't get eaten by a wolf in the dark, so his genes were better', more of a build up over generations of subtle tweeks in behaviour. If your genes got it wrong, you died, and that particular fuck-up didn't generally go much further beyond you.

Look at a car now, someone didn't suddenly go 'hey, if i stick this in this, light it, stick some carbon fibre over the top and sell it rediculously expensivly i can make lots of money', petrol heads over the generations slowly perfected the design based on what came before. Those who got it wrong...blew up


On topic, i believe humans have a HUGE variety of fears and ingrained desires, but we simply over ride them, and often dismiss ideas in our head as fanciful crap, because we do not need them anymore.

If you want an interesting one, are humans afraid of failing out of love?

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rsl12

Interesting! I vaguely remember studies associated with innate instinctual fears associated with falling and reptiles, but I hadn't heard anything about fear of darkness. But it makes total sense.

I think it's interesting that the fear of being trapped is probably learned. I mean, you average newborn doesn't spass out when put into a papoose, right? But in the wild, being trapped in a pit/under a tree should cause you to panic. I guess it's learned.

On the opposite side, I bet there's an innate fear of being away from mommy or fear of being alone in newborns that eventually fades away with maturity.

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cookmo

In my psychology text, the kitten study is done with 4 month old babies as a depth perception test. These babies are put on a red and white checked platform. Halfway across the platform the pattern stops, and the rest of the platform is glass. The babies will crawl all the way untill the glass and stop, because they are afraid of falling. They will not even continue on when their mothers call them. Perhaps one could argue that these babies learned to fear falling before four months, but in my opinion that is unlikely.

ClostGoth

At the risk of sounding insane, I believe in genetic memory.

But back to instinctual fears... I've never been afraid of any of those three things. I'm some kind of mutant!

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ngdawg

There is an instinctual reaction in newborns (whose official name escapes me right now), in which, if you were to move the baby suddenly(such as scooping it up), its arms would instantly flail out in a grabbing motion. Also, grip is something they have instinctually from day one; I would venture to guess it's innate from our prehistoric beginnings.

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rsl12

ngdawg, my cat does that too! she has sharp claws and sometimes I drop her as a result. Another sad result of Man vs. Nature (or Instinct vs. Intellect).

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ClostGoth

Four month old kittens? (If not, why is it called the kitten study?) I've seen evidence that even as old as 1yr human babies would just keep right on crawling. Of course, I don't have a drastic pattern change - the carpet in the living room continues down the stairs. So perhaps it's the pattern change and not the depth perception? I'm not going to let them keep crawling and find out! But I sure would like to know. My baby girl is getting adept at cruising up the stairs and backing down again, but that's with me hovering around her. My 9wk old kittens didn't seem to learn their sense of depth until they were around 5 or 6 weeks, but they definitely have it now.

Ngdawg: isn't that gripping reflex just called the gripping reflex? I may have seen it referred to as Darwinian. There's the startle reflex too, but I'm not sure what that's called.

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abaya

Fascinating thread, here.

Of the three fears in the OP, fear of the dark is the only truly persistent one in my life. I have always been afraid of the dark, especially in large, open places (a big house, big woods, big yard, etc). I can overcome my fear of darkness in a contained place (a small apartment; I love my studio) or if someone else is in the vicinity (also why I like my apartment). Keep in mind that my parents let me watch tons of horror movies with them when I was pretty young... so I don't know how "instinctual" that one is, either.

As for falling, nope. Never really been afraid of that, as you can see from my sports interests: rock climbing, snow skiing, water skiing, and roller-blading. I've fallen hard in each activity, sometimes from a great height or speed, and usually with pain/bloodshed as a result, but that pain hasn't really conditioned me against doing those activities. I mean, I'm not an extreme-sport person, either... but basic falling doesn't scare me at all. I see it as a temporary setback to what is an otherwise VERY thrilling and fun activity. I love the adrenaline rush... I think the only biological part of this fear may be if you were born with a more risk-seeking personality, in general.

And reptiles? Meh, they got nuthin' on creepy-crawlies. I detest spiders and other small, leggy and/or winged insects. Reptiles are fine with me, though... I love the feel of a living snake's body as it moves (if I'm holding one, for example).

I do have a very immediate and strong reaction whenever I see a cop on the road, though, because I have a lead foot. Man, I feel the cortisols rush DIRECTLY into my bloodstream when that happens!!

I do think it all comes down to fear of the unknown, and, for many, many fears...

FEAR OF (unexpected) PAIN.

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Ch'i

I think humans only instinctually fear the dark because we have an innate fear of the uncertain, and grasping the possibilities of what we cannot see can sometimes lead to hidden dangers that are not really there (immagination). We did used to be hunters, once upon a time; most of these fears were probably build in to protect us, through natural selection. I agree with abaya that if humans had any instinctual fear it would be...

Fear of the Unknown