Philosophy In Movies

[duckznutz]

Having recently watched I Love Huckabees I realised that it is the first movie I have seen and really enjoyed which has Philosophy as its main plot-line. I realsied then that a lot of my favourite movies are actually quite philosophical in their own way, Groundhog Day and One Flew Over The Cuckoos Next being obvious examples.

Anyone else think of any good movies which make you think outside the box (I hate that phrase but its the best I can think of for now!).

I hope this wont become a Matrix thread . . I am thinking proper philosophy rather than Science Fiction like Matrix, Gattica, Star Wars etc

[Tachion]

Being John Malcovic.
Excellent view on looking through anothers eyes.

Memento
Shows just how important memory is to who we are and what we do.

Citizen Kane
All aspects of life and power

[Coppertop]

The Matrix needs to be included. Saying the Matrix isn't based on Plato's Allegory of the Cave is a rather uninformed opinion. Don't let the action aspects of the movie fool you. Dismissing a movie because it can be placed in a certain genre is lame.

Anyhow, Existenz is another good example of what you're looking for.

[nezmot]

Lost in Translation, Ghost in The Shell, The Big Lebowski.

[WindGillsPlease]

I Heart Huckabees is SO awesome! I definately agree with you, Duckznutz, about the plot, - how it shows what the application of philosophy looks like.

Waking Life is also very good.

[Willravel]

Vanilla Sky wasn't as bad asa everyone said it would be (although I still can't watch Tom Cruise). It had an underlying philosophical theme (deception, sensation and perception, internalist/externalist theories of well being).

1984 was one of the best movies I've ever seen. The philosophical themes are prety blatent in that one.

Bladerunner is also one of my favorites. What is it to be human? What is morality? What is life? What is slavery?

Les Miserables was freaking amazing (Liam Neson version). Nature of morality and vindication plays a central role.

Equilibrium...athough it's been done better as far as philosophy of totalitarian society before, very few were this entertaining.

Solaris: am I the only one who like the Cloony remake as much as the original? I dunno. The question of personal identity comes up early on and just gets more and more surreal.

Se7en is yet another of my favorite films. The questioning of the interpretation of scripture, ethics, moral dilemmas, and faith versus morality are key.

If you havn't seen Hero because you don't like action movies, go see it right now. This work of visual art also conveys a very strong anti-violence/anti-war/contractarianism theme.

Of course 2001 was the best metaphysics movie ever made. It was also unique in that it was among the first to question consciousness in machines.

Clockwork Orange featured a unique and unorthodox approach to showing behaviorism.

Hands are tired now, I'll post more later.

[kangaeru]

Closer -- Great movie about relationships

Set in London, England, good Samaritan Dan Wolf (Jude Law), a struggling writer, takes Alice Ayres (Natalie Portman), a shady young woman and part-time stripper, to the hospital when she's hit by a car, and they fall in love. One year later, Dan meets photographer Anna Cameron (Julie Roberts) and tries to pick her up, but she rebuffs him. In revenge, Dan sets Anna up for an embarrassing encounter with sex-addicted dermatologist Larry Bagley (Clive Owen), but the two end up seeing each other. Then another year later, Dan and Anna begin an affair of their own, and relationships between the four collapse. Over the next year, all of them become obsessed with hurting each other and wreak some heavy emotional damage. Will any of them be strong enough to put this destructive sequence of events to a stop?

[onodrim]

Originally Posted by willravel

Vanilla Sky wasn't as bad asa everyone said it would be (although I still can't watch Tom Cruise). It had an underlying philosophical theme (deception, sensation and perception, internalist/externalist theories of well being).

It's a remake of a Spanish film Abre los ojos which is infinently better. Skip Vanilla Sky and go straight for the original!

I'm with willravel on I Heart Huckabees, 1984, Blade Runner, Equilibrium, and Se7en.

Another great movie that deals with questions of reality is The Machinist with Christian Bale.

[Locobot]

I recomment Cube and The Seventh Seal.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by onodrim

It's a remake of a Spanish film Abre los ojos which is infinently better. Skip Vanilla Sky and go straight for the original!

I'm with willravel on I Heart Huckabees, 1984, Blade Runner, Equilibrium, and Se7en.

Another great movie that deals with questions of reality is The Machinist with Christian Bale.

OMG the Machinist was amazing. How Christian Bale can play Batman and the character in the Machinist is a testemant to what a range he has as an actor. Of course, there's American Psycho, too.

Yes, the original, Open You Eyes, is much better than Vanilla Sky. Penelope does a better job in the original, too (but this thread is about the movie more than the actors/actresses).

[Elphaba]

"Apocalypse Now" and "Lord of the Flies" both reveal the savagery that lies just below the surface of our "civilized" behavior.

[Tachion]

Requim for a Dream - powerful insight into loneliness, drugs, decisions in life...

[Toaster126]

Damn you people for mentioning all the movies I wanted to.

I'll say 'em anyways - Lord of the Flies, Blade Runner, Equilibrium, Memento, Clockwork Orange, and Gattaca (which I think is more philosophy than sci-fi as we will be able to do everything in that movie very soon)

[duckznutz]

Originally Posted by kangaeru

Closer -- Great movie about relationships

Absolutely awesome! I quite agree! Thanks everyone else for the suggestions! Off to the video shop to see what I can get.

[CSflim]

Rather than just listing all movies that you think are philosophical, perhaps it would be an idea to list why you think that they are more philosophical than most, and what exactly it is that you got out of them. Did any movie ever change your mind about any particular philosophical problem.

[runawayfetus]

fight club

[Zeraph]

Waking Life-What is reality? Death?

[Felicity]

I liked The Truman Show.

[Ace_O_Spades]

How has nobody mentioned Pi?

It talks all movie about Pythagorean philosophy

PI!

Unique movie, black and white... striking.

[absolutsubzero]

Originally Posted by Locobot

I recomment Cube and The Seventh Seal.

I will try to elaborate which parallels this movie has to my life. The knight came back from Crusades questioning all kind of motives that led him to fight for a cause that he believed. I am everyday questioning the motives that lead me to choose this path or that path and if I am really fighting for a good cause or I am in the middle of a battle that is not mine. In addition, his entire questioning bout the existence of God or His real importance in our world is something that I think most of us can relate to in our lives.

Another movie that made me question bout morality is Rope from Alfred Hitchcock. Until what point someone has the right to decide if someone live is worth/important or not and does it gives the right to take a life away. What does give the feeling that you are more important than the person next to you is.

Taxi Driver – The hero/anti-hero dilemma haunts me as viewer. You cannot help to feel compassion for Travis, after all he does not know any way better to fight the surround madness than the violence.

[Gilda]

Originally Posted by willravel

If you havn't seen Hero because you don't like action movies, go see it right now. This work of visual art also conveys a very strong anti-violence/anti-war/contractarianism theme.

Hmmm. You have almost the polar opposite reaction to the movie that I had. It seemed obvious to me that its theme was a justification for imperialism. Hero's actions at the end of the movie, where he

Spoiler: Refuses to kill the emeror after getting his opportunity.

seems to me to be an apology for the bloody war of aquisition that the first Emeror engaged in under the guise of uniting the warring kingdoms for their own good.

It pays lip service to the idea of violence not being the answer, but only in the sense of violence in opposition to totalitarianism, while simultaneously ignoring that the peace was imposed with an iron hand.

I love the movie but disagree with what I see as its message nonetheless.

Gilda

[Derwood]

I would argue that The Matrix is more about the Descartian (sp?) notion of not knowing that anything is real besides yourself.

[keyshawn]

Fight Club is symbolized the counterculture among middle-upper class who felt the consumption habits of their generation were a facade.

Durden spoke of this:

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

After viewing this film quite a few times, I have realized, that a balance between the anticonsumption/culture jamming of our world and the corporate/consumptious class-driven status is necessary. To me, it also become to mean that counterculture has, in effect, become another marketing tool used by popular culture.

Waking Life has quite a few themes (based in small talks with various people he meets) besides the main character's theme of consciousness.
One that I found very interesting was with linguistics. For example, the word 'love' does not have a
You can only describe in its effect, Like the fuzzy feeling in your heart, or someone kissing you, etc.
Contrasting with a word like 'water,' which is directly named for it. That might sound a bit unclear and I can't articulate exactly what I'm describing with that description above.

regards,
keyshawn

[Poloboy]

Like willravel and others mentioned, I think 2001 is very prominent in this category. The suggestion that a spiritual transformation is the next massive leap for life (don't want to say mankind - because the apes weren't yet human when they had their intelligence leap) and that it would rescue us from the narrowing divide between human and machine was very profound.

I would also like to add Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind to the list. If you haven't seen it, it's set in modern-day north america and centers around a hypothetical psychiatric procedure that can selectively erase memories. If you've had a bad experience in life, you just go have the memory erased. It brings up the idea that our life is simply the collection of our own memories. The acting's great too.

[Sgoilear]

Originally Posted by Gilda

Hmmm. You have almost the polar opposite reaction to the movie that I had. It seemed obvious to me that its theme was a justification for imperialism. Hero's actions at the end of the movie, where he

Spoiler: Refuses to kill the emeror after getting his opportunity.

seems to me to be an apology for the bloody war of aquisition that the first Emeror engaged in under the guise of uniting the warring kingdoms for their own good.

It pays lip service to the idea of violence not being the answer, but only in the sense of violence in opposition to totalitarianism, while simultaneously ignoring that the peace was imposed with an iron hand.
Gilda

I always looked at Hero as being a kind of Just War following the political science view. War is a terrible thing but it may very well have been for the better to have a large war and then rule consolidated under one government. Certainly the peasants would suffer more in the short term but the long term gain outweighed that in my eyes.

I also have to agree with kangeru about Closer being a great film. I enjoyed it in the watching a car wreck in slow motion kind of way. It definitly made me think.

Another apsect of philosophy in movies that I think people largely over look is the musical score. The music used in a particular scene can greatly impact a person's view point on what exactly is happening. 2001 is an outstanding example of this. Without the music serving to highlight events, for instance the black stone tablet, the impact would have been very different for me.

[The_Jazz]

How about "Saving Private Ryan"? It was definitely emotionally draining the first time that I saw it, but I definitely thought about duty and self sacrifice for the next month. The opening and closing scenes brought tears to my eyes, but I spent a lot more time thinking about combat and how it changes people. It also reinforced my belief that war is something to be avoided unless there are no other options.

Then there's "Forrest Gump" which is a great movie with a philosophy that grates on me. As I see it, the guy that stays close to home and listens to what his mother tells him and doesn't experiment ends up with all the good things. Jenny, who goes out and experiences the 60's, ends up dead for it. As a runner, I still get a kick out of all scenes of running through the West, but I still find the basic message distasteful.

Can you tell my wife likes Tom Hanks?

[Gilda]

Originally Posted by Sgoilear

I always looked at Hero as being a kind of Just War following the political science view. War is a terrible thing but it may very well have been for the better to have a large war and then rule consolidated under one government. Certainly the peasants would suffer more in the short term but the long term gain outweighed that in my eyes.

I wasn't making a comment on whether the war and the bloodshed that led to unification was justified or not in the long run, just that that was what I saw as the thesis of the movie. The emperor united the kingdoms through a bloody war of aquisition, which may or may not have been justified, but once unification had been achieved, to oppose it would have been to bring about a greater evil than had supposedly been perpetuated by the wars.

I'm not sure I agree with that. It's one of those things like the dropping of the first bomb on Hiroshima; it's such a big thing, with such a powerful result on each side that it's beyond me to see which is the right and which is the wrong.

Heh. For a comic book geek, there are good parallels in both V for Vendetta and Watchmen, the first of which argues strongly against a pragmatic peace created by evil means, and the second which may be arguing in favor of it, depending upon whether you view Rorshach or Ozymandias as the hero. Watchmen definitely has the other characters' pragmatic acceptance of the situation at the end, despite the means used to achieve it, as pretty much the same thing you see in Hero.

I thought, for a wuxia picture, House of Flying Daggars was more convincing. The basic premise there, that the biggest enemy we face is the internal one, both as individuals and as organizations, is something I can definitely relate to.

Gilda

[Sgoilear]

Originally Posted by Gilda

I'm not sure I agree with that. It's one of those things like the dropping of the first bomb on Hiroshima; it's such a big thing, with such a powerful result on each side that it's beyond me to see which is the right and which is the wrong.

True that. It's definitly a large issue with so many things to muddy the waters that's its very difficult to work everything through.

Originally Posted by Gilda

I thought, for a wuxia picture, House of Flying Daggars was more convincing. The basic premise there, that the biggest enemy we face is the internal one, both as individuals and as organizations, is something I can definitely relate to.

Agreed. I enjoyed that film and can relate to the internal conflict theme also. As an aside the music was gorgeous. Especially Katherine Bell doing the closing theme.

[sentimental_arm]

PI is a good philosophical film, sometimes i think about drilling a hole in my head... then i have a wank and all is well.

[Crack]

Originally Posted by Tachion

Requim for a Dream - powerful insight into loneliness, drugs, decisions in life...

as well as being one of the only movies to just about bring me to tears. at the end when jennifer connely is doing the sex scene and the old man says "ass-to-ass" and the music quickens, you can just seen the look of lost and abandonment and sadness in her face, it's beautiful as well as tragic and ugly at the same time.

[Rodney]

Every movie that holds that "everything happens for a reason" is espousing a philosophy. And a damn sight of them do, every year, because it's a comforting thing to believe. But it's not a given.

How about "The Usual Suspects?" What I took from that movie was, "You can't really know anything." The whole narrative was about lies built on lies -- and then of course you find that there is a master liar above it all.

[keyshawn]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Every movie that holds that "everything happens for a reason" is espousing a philosophy. And a damn sight of them do, every year, because it's a comforting thing to believe. But it's not a given.

How about "The Usual Suspects?" What I took from that movie was, "You can't really know anything." The whole narrative was about lies built on lies -- and then of course you find that there is a master liar above it all.

Please refrain from mentioning any spoilers ! I'm sure there's many others besides myself who have not seen this yet

thanks,
will.

[just worried about the story getting spoiled for anyone, I had citizen kane spoiled for me because a classmate told the ending in philosophy last quarter, before I saw the movie.

[Min]

I absolutely agree with above lists. Equilibrium, Bladerunner, Fight Club and Ghost in the Shell are among my favourite movies.
I find philosophy laid in The Name of the Rose when he stands as a man of principles against the vast odds with the atmosphere of persecution and ignorance compounded by the policies of anti-scholastism and fanatical orthodoxy. Displaying the power or reason to solve not only the literal mystery but how it applies to living day to day to better ourselves.

On the lighter side, I enjoy Auntie Mame, with Rosalind Russel, using levity to present views about persevering through poverty, helping others in need, open-mindedness against bigotry and Puritanical morality, and that the best one can do with life is to 'live, live, live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!

[Martian]

Keyshawn - After reading the novel, I thought the film Fight Club sort of warped Palahniuk's original message.

Tyler is all anti-culture because the narrator is, essentially. The difference is that the narrator doesn't have the nerve to do anything about it. Tyler essentially acts out the narrator's desires; yet in the end, Tyler nearly destroys the narrator (which was changed in the film to a somewhat happier ending). Tyler isn't about balance. He's the anti-consumer. He's an extreme. I see it as asking a question more than giving a moral message; Palahniuk, through Durden and the author is examining the world we live in and asking is the grass really so much greener?

I don't think I gave any plot points away. Spoiler tag averted.

But yeah, the bit you said about counter-culture being a marketing tool is absolutely true. New Found Glory, anyone? Sum 41? Anyone? Anyone?

Back on topic, I'll nominate The Wall.

EDIT - In a sense, you could argue that any movie is about a philosophy of sorts. A film is like any other medium; it's made to convey a message or idea. Even something like Die Hard has a message to it and is therefore attempting to tell the viewer something. Implicit in that is that the viewer will ask questions and possibly change his view of the world, even if that change of perspective amounts to 'Bruce Willis is the greatest fucking action hero that ever lived.'

Film is art, of a sort. And art and philosophy are, in my opinion, very closely related.

[CSflim]

Originally Posted by Martian

But yeah, the bit you said about counter-culture being a marketing tool is absolutely true. New Found Glory, anyone? Sum 41? Anyone? Anyone?

Or designer safety pins going for the discerning punk?

For a great book that elaborates on this idea, I highly recommend 'Nation of Rebels: How Counter-Culture becomes Consumer-Culture" by Joseph Heath and Andrew Potter.

Tears apart the fundamental ideas behind the notion of a 'counter-culture'.