Cynthetiq

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA okay, now that's good.

Overgeneralize much? If your arguments were really about the post not the poster, I'd not be able to take your statement and without changing a word, put you in the same position.

Quote:

Oh Fastom You put blind faith in anybody who puts blind faith in that official story. They make it up as they go along, make the so-called evidence fit the story rather than examine the evidence and figure out what happened. I hope these "investigators" aren't the people i'd have to rely on if my car got stolen.

Gee that's really good.

Keep from attacking the fellow member, keep it on subject not personal attacks.

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Willravel

Cynth, first you say this:
and then you say this:
So either what fatsom did was fine, or what you both did was wrong. You use the same 'attack' on fatsom that he used on Dilbert, and then you dress him down for it.

Dilbert1234567

Fastom does not attack the evidence, he attacks the person, me, pop mech, anything that does not agree with him. if it does not agree with him it has an agenda, and there for cannot be trusted. that is why I am done with this thread.

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Cynthetiq

it was an example so that he can read how wrong it was.. .sorry it wasn't ALL yellow which it should have been.

Hard to moderate and play World of Warcraft at the same time.

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Willravel

Cynth: Okey dokey.

Dil, why bail?

fastom

Oh c'mon Dil , i'll try not to diss.

I do find it hard to figure out how anybody thinks Pop Mech is unbiased. They investigated backwards, draw a conclusion and look for evidence (or make it up) to fit that. Ignore that which doesn't fit.

I guess what i said meant the subject needed to change...

"Now look at that video clip Will posted of tower 7. It's pretty plain to me and anybody with half a brain what's happening there.
Notice the top sagging in the middle? The structure is being blown up (yes i said "blown up"). A collapse from damage on one side or a fire will never do that. Certainly you must have seen a building demolition on TV, maybe one of the old Las Vegas casinos? But why was it on fire anyways? No plane crashed into it, the debris that fell on it damaged the one side but as shown in pictures it wasn't burning earlier."

Is there any way to add a sound clip to a post... maybe The Who ?

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh can't explain....

pai mei

Ce spune un controlor de trafic :

http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

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pai mei

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TaRPm7CvKFM

Who believes them ? They got home changed clothes and come back ? and know nothing about the extent of the damage ? Then they say they just escaped from WTC 5 ?

If there was Bin Laden saying what they say, all the world would yell "liar !"

fastom

Wow, great find. That sure seems typical of comparing the official story to what was said that day.

I didn't used to believe in government coverups and conspiracies until that airliner got shot down off Long Island. The newspaper said "shot down" and i just happened to be there when a former Navy officer stopped at a store and saw that paper.
He groaned and muttered "Not again".
So i had to ask.

CB_Brooklyn

moderator: please delete this post

pai mei

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiIyI6ugmUM
Rosie O'Donnel speaks out about 9/11. She has nothing to gain by this. I admire her courage.

The official investigation began 400 days after the attack - only at the request of the victim's fammilies, the governemnt had no intention to investigate on their own, they "knew" all from day one.
They spent 600000 $ on it , and they had a lot to investigate : 4 planes, NORAD not working, 3000 victims, thousands of witnesses
WTC 7 did not even make it in the report
On Monica Lewinsky they spent 40 million $
Who wants to find more search 9/11 on google and google video

samcol

It's awesome that so many viewers are being exposed to 9/11 infomation. Hopefully it won't be long until this totally goes mainstream.

fastom

Hopefully it happens before Bush kicks off WW3 and blows us all to Kingdom Come (Cum?)

samcol

John Kerry says that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition. He's one of the last people that I thought would address '9/11 truth' issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLnaogsm60A&eurl=

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Willravel

That's an interesting vid, samcol. It's hard to tell what stand he's taking on it. It seemed that he was acting as if this was the first he's heard of it, and the statement about it being brought down didn't fit with that. Dishonest maybe? It's hard to tell.

Anyone else notice how after the elections, Al Gore and John Kerry got a little cooler? What's that all about?

samcol

I found the video to be very odd as well, his stance doesn't make much sense. If you think WTC 7 came down by demolition the obvious conclusion is that we've been lied to about 9/11, but he kind of just throws it out there like everyone knew 7 was a demolition.

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fastom

It's like everybody knew but nobody cares.

It doesn't seem like anybody official is interested in catching the perpetrators.
But the sheeple don't find that suspicious.

ASU2003

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070430/...ghway_collapse

This event might change my mind as to the effect of jet fuel and the explosion had on the WTC buildings. I'm not sure how much of the fuel would have been used up in the first fireball anymore.

Then again, you don't hear people saying that there were streams of jet fuel burning all over the inside of the building either.

Willravel

Don't forget that most of the fuel in the wtc burned up immediately.

Some facts:
1) The overpass was not built to take a 4 alarm fire or the impact of a commercial plane like the WTCs were.
2) The only thing that burned under the overpass was gas and the trucks.
3) We don't know how long the fire burned under the overpass.
4)vs. the fact that While the gas fire was unfortunate and the traffic was HORRIBLE, it shouldn't cast too much doubt on the questions surrounding 9/11.

fastom

Howzabout some of the other aspects. The planes themselves, there are a whole bunch of inconsistancies there. From the tail number of one still being listed as active to the claimed flights not have being registered that day , there was a database of every scheduled airline flight i saw several years ago that didn't list those flight numbers.
The first time i ever heard anything about the 9/11 deal not being as claimed was from a pilot neighbor who filled me in on the remote flight control and the fact the 757 can't manouver like they showed on TV. He referred me to a pilots forum which wasn't this one...

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_Fo...showtopic=5935

... it was just regular airline topics with one pilot asking if anybody thought a 757 could do that. I think that led to the Pilots for Truth site.

Maybe somebody here has experts in white coats in laboratories who say it's possible but my neighbor has flown everything from biplanes to 747's since WW2 and says it's utterly impossible.

So if a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon what did? If it didn't happen as stated, what else? Then the 19 Arabs getting on those planes wasn't the root cause, what else? And so on...

loquitur

<br><br><IMG SRC="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/conspiracy_theories.png">

Sticky

That last cell in the comic is hysterical.
(is it my software background?)

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fastom

More stuff to ponder... for those not blinded by politics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJejiP_47tQ

It's taken from the news, this stuff was all documented as happening that day. Can you think of a good reason for office workers looking for debris? Somebody lose a contact lense or what?

fastom

Here's another curiosity.. considering where i saw it posted.

http://www.markbingham.org/links.html

Go where it says... "CLICK HERE FOR LATEST NEWS ON MARK TODAY! 05-17-2007"

Takes you to this...
http://www.etherzone.com/2007/stang051807.shtml

Which when you read it doesn't exactly compliment their version of events.

That and the Todd Beamer site do have some interesting bits.

http://www.markbingham.org/legend.html
http://www.perpetuallyonline.com/ToddBeamer/article.htm

pai mei

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb2U...t495368%2Ehtml

German hip hop about 9/11

pai mei

Here are some beams from the WTC rubble. There was no reason for cleanup crews to do this kind of cut unless they wanted the beam to come down on their heads.
That kind of cut is made with a linear shaped charge, and it is used in demolitions, it makes the top part slide over the bottom part and the building falls :






Mystery solved.
The only way to find out the truth is to find some clean up people and ask them about those beams

Willravel

Awesome pictures, pai. Those are going to be hard to deny by even the most devoted non-theorist.

The_Jazz

Pai mei - there's a very good reason to make those cuts. Those beams were standing vertically in the rubble. The only way to bring them down in a controlled fashion is to make that kind of cut, working down the angle from top to bottom. It keeps the weight of the beam from pinching the cutting tool.

Anyone who's ever had any experience cutting down verticle weights will tell you the exact same thing. It's the most efficient way, and it is actually the BEST way to make sure the load DOESN'T come down on your (or anyone else's) head. A horizontal cut is unstable and damages your equipment.

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Willravel

Take a look at the second to the last picture, there's nothing around them that matches with the cuts.

samcol

Believe me, after researching 9/11, I do think it was an inside job, but those cuts don't really prove much as presented in my opinion. They very well could be explosive charges, but they very well could be cut like that during clean up too. When you cut down trees you angle them like that so they fall in a certain direction. It's hard to say without more evidence. It does look highly suspicious though.

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The_Jazz

will, there's a crane in the background. Steel beams are heavy. No ancient Egyptian slaves were present at the WTC site to use ramps, ropes and water to move the cut beams after they'd been put down, so I think it's a pretty easy guess that they were lifted by a crane and placed on a truck prior to this picture being taken. Unless you have proof the contrary that you haven't offered up to now.

Otherwise it's just three beams cut at an angle to bring them out the site without ruining the tools being used.

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pai mei

I would like to see a person who worked to remove the rubble give an interview and tell everything he saw

In my country the minister for foreign affairs had to resign because he failed to tell the public in time when some journalists were taken hostage in Iraq, they were rescued , but he still lost his post just for not telling in time.

In Japan the minister of transportation resigned because a few trains were a few minutes late. No dead people, but he resigned.

9/11 was not the first time planes went of the course. There are written manuals with instructions for what to do in that case.
If the reason for 9/11 was incompetence tell me who was fired ?
3000 dead and not 1 (one) incompetent fired ?
Not killed or in prison, just fired

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fastom

Exactly! Kids soccer coaches, waiters and parking valets lose their jobs for some pretty minor things. The grossly negligent 9/11 players get PROMOTED.

Half of the Pentagon staff should have been fired.

host

Lotsa BS from this government agency, incompetent evidence gathering of steel, shoddy staffing and investigative effort, delays...delays....and as the sixth anniversary of 9/11 rolls around, there will be no definitive "WTC 7 collapse report"....YET...from NIST !

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...&postcount=171

"When NIST initiated the WTC investigation, <h3>it made a decision not to hire new staff to support the investigation.</h3> After the June 2004 progress report on the WTC investigation was issued, <h3>the NIST investigation team stopped working on WTC 7</h3> and was assigned full-time through the fall of 2005 to complete the investigation of the WTC towers. With the release and dissemination of the report on the WTC towers in October 2005, the investigation of the WTC 7 collapse resumed. Considerable progress has been made since that time, including the review of nearly 80 boxes of new documents related to WTC 7, the development of detailed technical approaches for modeling and analyzing various collapse hypotheses, and the selection of a contractor to assist NIST staff in carrying out the analyses. It is anticipated that a draft report will be released by early 2007."


http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...&postcount=175
Final Reports of the Federal Building and Fire
Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster

The analysis focused on the WTC 1 and WTC 2. <h3>Although no steel was recovered from WTC 7</h3>, a 47-story building that also collapsed on September 11, properties for steel used in its construction were estimated based on literature and contemporaneous documents.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/r...tc_062907.html
NIST Status Update on World Trade Center 7 Investigation


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
June 29, 2007

.....A team of scientists and engineers at the Commerce Department's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) that is investigating the collapse of New York City's World Trade Center 7 (WTC 7) building expects to release its draft report for public comment by the end of the year.......This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation.
NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse.
While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements......

http://www.ae911truth.org/
Welcome to Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!

126 architectural and engineering professionals and
190 "Others" including A/E Students
have joined us in calling on Congress for a new investigation.
Everyone may join AE911Truth.org!
We have several categories of folks that are concerned about the events of 9/11.
We will post your name after verifying your credentials and/or
information — which may take a few days.
Thank You!!

Mission Statement:

To research and to disseminate the truth
of the 9/11 “collapses” of all 3 WTC high-rise buildings
to every architect and engineer

pai mei

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87186956&hl=en
A firefighter tells the story of what he did on 9/11.

"Tower one was coming down from the interior on us"
"Inside structure was just disintegrating, we were like : How is this happening when the plane was up fifty more stories and the stairway is collapsing on us ?"
"Explosions , fires everywhere "
"It wasn't a F14 shooting rockets at us"
"We got down to the third floor and that's where the stairway collapsed on us
and we had to dig all the way out, now the building is coming down we can't see nothing, once again, saying our prayers, you know the show is over here now, this is it.
And with that, all of the sudden, we're looking for another stairwell, me and the lieutenant open a door, we find a body in this closet, we were like : what the heck is that, where did this come from, what's going on here ?, something crazy is going on.
We got our way out off the third stall and that's where the maintenance fellow with a little flash light saved our lives , he was pointing over at us , if it wasn't for him we never would have found another stairwell, the building would have collapsed, William Rodriguez, he saved our lives"
"People coming down the stairs from all different stories , burnt"
"We got down to the lobby and everything was blown up, exploded"



Of course no eye witness testified for the 9/11 "investigation".

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fastom

The firefighters (pronounced foy foytas) were saying things like that on live TV back when it happened but what do they know... they aren't politicians.

For anybody to agree with the official fable they need to ignore a lot of the truth and just accept small bits of it and insert theory where facts aren't known. Much smaller scandals have toppled governments before.

Willravel

Watching "9/11 Conspiracies" on History Channel. This is the most one sided piece of tripe in history. It weakly echos talking points and presents virtually no evidence whatsoever. This is probably the weakest case for the official story yet. They missed the point:

How did this:


fit into this?


Some have said that the plane basically atomized upon impact. Um, no. Some say the wings tail, and body folded in. Um, no. Some say it was just an amazing coincidence that it hit the exact center of where the restoration was happening thus meaning that part of the Pentagon would be virtually abandoned. Um, no.

Let's stop pretending like the Occam's Razor for the big picture negates the Occam's Razor for the individual pices of evidence.

Racnad

Two questions for 9/11 conspiracy people...

1) If the government is capaple of orchestrating 9/11 and keeping it a secret, why was Bill Clinton unable to keep a simple blowjob from Monica Lewisnski a secret?

2) If the Bush administration were logistically and morally capable of of orchestrating 9/11 and keeping it a secret, then why did they not plant a huge stash of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq (along with some arabic-language plans to atack the US) in order to justify the Iraq invasion?

Cynthetiq

well it's pretty simple, but let me use some other pictures to prove my point.

garage door


big fire truck


big fire truck inside passing through the garage door


people have posted sillohettes of the plane before and they easily fit within the measurements of the hole.

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Willravel

Either you're trying to say that a plane's wings, tail, and even the hull can fold into a shape no more than 15 feet in diameter, or you're flaming. I'm disappointed no matter which of these two describes your last post.