Chemtrails - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Predator (tm) · 12-05-2003, 11:04 PM

Has anyone hear ever read or heard about these. I started this this thread because today, i noticed it on a large scale where i live. Does anyone have any info or conspiracy theories on what these trails are for and or compsited of?

Crack · 12-06-2003, 07:30 PM

Mind control for the masses, some crackpots believe that they are seeding the populas with drugs that keep people from going crazy and revolting aginst the Goverment...

rider6061 · 12-08-2003, 06:56 AM

I read somewhere that they may be weather control experiments

geodaro · 12-08-2003, 08:40 AM

Never heard of them. What are they? Should I be scared? I will go ahead and be scared until I hear something further. Please keep me posted!

macro · 12-09-2003, 05:03 AM

Yeah, OK a quick google produced waaaay too many conspiracy theories. A quick summary please?

Snakedance · 12-09-2003, 06:48 AM

I have seen those my entire life, now that I know what a chemtrail looks like. Mind control? They need to do a better job with all the mind control, I mean have you seen Liza Minelli lately? All this time I have believed that they were contrails from planes.

sipsake · 12-09-2003, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snakedance
All this time I have believed that they were contrails from planes.

They are contrails from planes.

BentNotTwisted · 12-10-2003, 12:31 PM

For me the jury is still out on the issue. Planes have produced contrails since the invention of the jet engine. Heck, for all I know propeller aircraft also produce contrails. I am skeptical as it would take a LOT of chemicals disbursed at high altitude to mix into the lower atmosphere enough to affect a person. 'They' would be better off putting it into gasoline or diesel fuel and let motorized vehicles spread it around. Or maybe They already are!

VitaminH · 12-10-2003, 10:37 PM

I believe it goes like this:

General rule of combustion, a totally clean combustion reaction ("burn" if you will) produces two products. Carbon Dioxide and Water. Jet engines burn jet fuel. Main result in the exhaust? Carbon Dioxide and Water. Air way up there is cold. Really cold. The water that gets shot out the back of the engine (as steam, since its hot from the burning) freezes real quick. Just like clouds in the sky. Hence you get an elongated thin "cloud" behined the jet engine. No mind controlling drugs. 'Sides, they would need HUGE amounts of chemicals to effect people on the ground, esp with the amount that they would blow around and disperse before they got to the ground fron 35,000 feet or however high jet airliners fly now.

The government is NOT controlling you or subduing you in any way. They won't stop you from wearing a gas mask all day, so if you're worried, try that.

Please feel free to correct me on any of this contrails stuff, I'm using rather basic knowledge of it.

shakran · 12-16-2003, 03:57 PM

prop engines would produce contrails as well, but to get one you generally have to be at altitudes that prop aircraft aren't real good at reaching - 20,000 feet and up.

jwoody · 12-17-2003, 01:32 AM

I always thought mind control drugs were dispensed from average family saloon cars.

fik · 12-31-2003, 05:56 PM

The thought that those contrails from planes are chemicals and is part of the conspiracy is rediculous. I've watched regular planes way up leave those clouds and they hang around for a while. Just like how vitaminh was saying, wator vapor freezing.

Though I do somewhat believe in the shadow government brainwashing, TV seems to be their favorite tool to do this, from what I've read.

MSD · 01-01-2004, 03:03 PM

Not anything to worry about? Not government work? They're doing it in the UK, why not here?

Quote:

Sunday April 21, 2002
The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.

The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather and air pollution.

The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the Russians were to have released clouds of deadly germs over the country.

In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which the MoD claimed were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry. (Of course they were ignored, like we all are now when we ask what the hell is being sprayed up in the skies over our heads that's making us all sick ..~R~)

*One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.

While the Government has insisted the chemical is safe, cadmium is recognised as a cause of lung cancer and during the Second World War was considered by the Allies as a chemical weapon.

In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius.

The report also reveals details of the DICE trials in south Dorset between 1971 and 1975. *These involved US and UK military scientists spraying into the air massive quantities of serratia marcescens bacteria, with an anthrax simulant and phenol.

Similar bacteria were released in 'The Sabotage Trials' between 1952 and 1964. These were tests to determine the vulnerability of large government buildings and public transport to attack. In 1956 bacteria were released on the London Underground at lunchtime along the Northern Line between Colliers Wood and Tooting Broadway. The results show that the organism dispersed about 10 miles. Similar tests were conducted in tunnels running under government buildings in Whitehall.

Experiments conducted between 1964 and 1973 involved attaching germs to the threads of spiders' webs in boxes to test how the germs would survive in different environments. These tests were carried out in a dozen locations across the country, including London's West End, Southampton and Swindon. The report also gives details of more than a dozen smaller field trials between 1968 and 1977.

In recent years, the MoD has commissioned two scientists to review the safety of these tests. Both reported that there was no risk to public health, although one suggested the elderly or people suffering from breathing illnesses may have been seriously harmed if they inhaled sufficient quantities of micro-organisms.

However, some families in areas which bore the brunt of the secret tests are convinced the experiments have led to their children suffering birth defects, physical handicaps and learning difficulties.

David Orman, an army officer from Bournemouth, is demanding a public inquiry. His wife, Janette, was born in East Lulworth in Dorset, close to where many of the trials took place. She had a miscarriage, then gave birth to a son with cerebral palsy. Janette's three sisters, also born in the village while the tests were being carried out, have also given birth to children with unexplained problems, as have a number of their neighbours.

The local health authority has denied there is a cluster, but Orman believes otherwise. He said: 'I am convinced something terrible has happened. The village was a close-knit community and to have so many birth defects over such a short space of time has to be more than coincidence.'

Successive governments have tried to keep details of the germ warfare tests secret. While reports of a number of the trials have emerged over the years through the Public Records Office, this latest MoD document - which was released to Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker - gives the fullest official version of the biological warfare trials yet.

Baker said: 'I welcome the fact that the Government has finally released this information, but question why it has taken so long. It is unacceptable that the public were treated as guinea pigs without their knowledge, and I want to be sure that the Ministry of Defence's claims that these chemicals and bacteria used were safe is true.'

The MoD report traces the history of the UK's research into germ warfare since the Second World War when Porton Down produced five million cattle cakes filled with deadly anthrax spores which would have been dropped in Germany to kill their livestock. It also gives details of the infamous anthrax experiments on Gruinard on the Scottish coast which left the island so contaminated it could not be inhabited until the late 1980s. (Wait..I thought the terrorists had anthrax they could drop on us any second and we're supposed to be terrified of them? ~R~)

The report also confirms the use of anthrax and other deadly germs on tests aboard ships in the Caribbean and off the Scottish coast during the 1950s. The document states: 'Tacit approval for simulant trials where the public might be exposed was strongly influenced by defence security considerations aimed obviously at restricting public knowledge. An important corollary to this was the need to avoid public alarm and disquiet about the vulnerability of the civil population to BW [biological warfare] attack.'

Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down, said: 'Independent reports by eminent scientists have shown there was no danger to public health from these releases which were carried out to protect the public.

'The results from these trials will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.'

Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.'

antony.barnett@observer.co.uk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...398507,00.html

This is a picture we took on Dec. 29th, in Fairfield, CT. These are chemtrails that were formed by several planes about 20 minutes before the picture was taken. In the time frame that the trails were observed, several planes flying at various altitudes left contrails in the same section of the sky, all of which dissipated within 3 minutes of formation. These are obviously made of something that is intended to stay in the air longer than water vapor and carbon dioxide. (Pic may take a while to load, boomspeed is being slow tonight. Right click and "Show Picture" if it doesn't show up.)

shakran · 01-08-2004, 03:05 AM

yeah.

How long do they let you out each day?

Airplanes would be an incredibly inefficient way to brainwash the people. Why not just put the brainwash stuff into the water supply? Everyone drinks it, and it's much easier, cheaper, and reliable to distribute that way. Plus, there's no visual evidence as there is with this chemtrails crap.

As for government brainwashing with TV. Nah. They're doing it through the public education system. Reference Minnesota's recent poly sci fight in which teachers had to fight the new social studies standards that emphasized how good America is and de-emphasized the stuff we've done wrong (slavery, oppression of the indians, etc)

MSD · 01-08-2004, 06:53 AM

It isn't anything to do with brainwashing, they need somewhere observable with a government that won't get pissed off to test dispersion of chemical and biological agents. The best we can hope for at the moment is that they're using something harmless.

sipsake · 01-08-2004, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
It isn't anything to do with brainwashing, they need somewhere ovservable wiht a government that won't get pissed off to test dispersion of chemical and biological agents. The best we can hope for at the moment is that they're using something harmless.

You seem to have a somewhat tenuous grasp of the science involved in the formation of contrails. If you truly are frightened by condensation trails, then find out a little more about them and put your mind at ease.

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html

tecoyah · 01-08-2004, 08:05 AM

During the three days following 9/11 the temperature in the los angeles basin was an average of three degrees f warmer due to the lack of trails from LAX. This was documented in discover magazine. Just more useless info for the masses, kinda cool though.

MSD · 01-08-2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sipsake
You seem to have a somewhat tenuous grasp of the science involved in the formation of contrails. If you truly are frightened by condensation trails, then find out a little more about them and put your mind at ease.

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html

I did know the basics of contrail formation, but I appreciate the extra information that your link provided.

The reason I am suspicious of what I saw and photographed is the circumstances surrounding the formation. The trails in the photo are at a 45° angle to the only flight paths in the area at the time they were formed. It was an extermely dry night, and the dozen planes that flew through that area at various altitudes during the time that those in the photo were visible, all left normal contrails that dissipated within a minute.

The thing that really aroused my suspicion was that the horizontal trail was formed by on plane flying across in front of me, and the other three (plus one that is not visible in this picture) were formed shortly after by planes flying in a formation. They all left normal contrails, sprayed whatever is in the pictures, and resumed leaving normal contrails afterward. The normal contrails left by the planes dissipated within 30 to 45 seconds. The ones in the picture (taken 20 minutes after formation) stayed for a total of about 25 to 30 minutes before wind-induced dissipation made them indistinguishable from the rest of the clouds.

shakran · 01-08-2004, 02:34 PM

that does at first blush seem weird, but if you ever take flying lessons you'll learn that the atmosphere does really weird things. If you see vapor trails disappearing way up in the sky, and then they don't disappear 5000 feet below them, it may seem weird to most people, but it's actually in all probability due to differences in atmospheric conditions. No wind, higher humidity, and the right temperature can cause vapor to hang around for a long time. For an example of this, notice how much more vapor there is and how much longer it lasts when it billows out of a smokestack at -15 F than it does at 90 F.

After all, clouds are just vapor, and they hang around for a very long time

also, chemtrails is the name given to airplane contrails by a bunch of paranoid freaks who think the government is brainwashing them with chemicals sprayed from the airplanes. It does not cover the testing of pesticides, chemical weapons, etc. So when you called them chemtrails, I figured you were saying that you believed the government is brainwashing us with them.

And as a third point, I have a friend who's a maintainence worker for Northwest Airlines, and he gets me into their hangar to wander around and look at all the planes. I've crawled all over jets ranging from the DC-9 to the 747-400, even when they were stripped for refurbishment, leaving a lot of the skin off, and all the interior, including floors, out. In otherwords, I've seen all the hidden parts of the airplanes. There were NO holding tanks for any chemical that doesn't belong on an airplane (fuel, etc). I was not told to stay away from any part of any airplane (I've been in the wheel wells, in the engine pods, in a wing tank (won't do THAT again, nearly got trapped - the opening is tiny and I'm not), in the APU section (APU = aux power unit - the small jet engine in the tail that provides power when the main engines aren't on), on top of the vertical stabilizer, in the radome . . everywhere). The chemtrails lunatics claim that all the airlines are involved with dispersing these hypnotizing chemicals. Well, if Northwest is dispersing chemicals, they're not doing it with their jets.

JangoFett72 · 01-16-2004, 08:44 PM

Living near an Air Force base for over 25 years, contrails are nothing new to me. I have seen some contrails that take over an hour to dissipate.

Sun Tzu · 01-18-2004, 09:34 PM

I’ve never had a freshly collected report from a qualified scientific research collection agency that has the results from freshly collected soil and air particles of a fallen "chem trail", so all I have here is my opinion from what I've researched:

There's is a distinctive difference between a contrail and chemtrail. Have you ever noticed two aircraft flying at relatively the same altitude (or at least what can be distinguished from the ground) and one is emitting a short trail the fades a dissipates a few feat behind it or doesn’t even have one in contrast to aircraft that are leaving the controversial trails that linger, expand, and fall? Is one jet using extra unleaded and the other regular? (that was a joke)

Mind control drugs . . .I don’t personally believe- even though I would put it past. I think they're concentrated intentional discharges. Contrails are fuel related: exhaust from engines. Chemtrails are more like crop dusting. The reasons being global temp, weather, ozone, and ionosphere related. Secondary for communication enhancement.

Substances like aluminum oxide are theorized to rebound some of the suns coronal emissions thus helping reduce the rate at which global warmer is occurring. Quartz and barium (other substance that have been collected) affects ion particles in the air enhancing a certain type of 3 dimentional communication and observation in relation to the curvature of the earth.

As far as airborne viruses, or similar I don’t know. IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE in the US in other forms.

I was wondering if anyone could get to this site:

http://www.spawar.navy.mil/corporate...99/ca9942.html

Whether or not whatever is in the chem trails was designed to intentionally harm humans is secondary to the fact that substances found from residual collections are harmful.

I’ve heard that this issue wasn’t present before 1998. But its was more from the fact that they were started in the late 80s on a small scale and have increased up to now; with 1998 being the first years people began reporting them globally.

I was wondering if whoever reads this could do an experiment and report the results here.

The day from which you read this post over the course of a week, observe the sky. Is there one day of that week that you see very few trails or none at all?

MSD · 01-18-2004, 11:51 PM

I tried everything that I legally can to get whatever is behind that link, but no luck. I can't find a single Navy proxy that's still running.

I'll try your experiment.

shakran · 01-19-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
Have you ever noticed two aircraft flying at relatively the same altitude (or at least what can be distinguished from the ground)

Well that's kinda the key right there. a 747 at 40,000 feet looks remarkably like a 747 at 35,000 feet from the ground. It's VERY difficult to lock a plane's altitude down with an accuracy of less than 10,000 feet just by looking at it. Meanwhile, that 5,000 feet could see incredibly huge changes in atmospheric conditions.

And like I said before, if the planes are dumping chemicals, where on the plane are they stored?

Sun Tzu · 01-20-2004, 04:35 AM

KC-135 Stratotanker

General Characteristics
Primary Function: Aerial refueling and airlift
Prime Contractor: The Boeing Company
Power Plant: KC-135R/T, CFM International CFM-56 turbofan engines; KC-135E, Pratt and Whitney TF-33-PW-102 turbofan engines
Thrust: KC-135R, 21,634 pounds each engine; KC-135E, 18,000 pounds each engine
Wingspan: 130 feet, 10 inches (39.88 meters)
Length: 136 feet, 3 inches (41.53 meters)
Height: 41 feet, 8 inches (12.7 meters)
Speed: 530 miles per hour at 30,000 feet (9,144 meters)
Ceiling: 50,000 feet (15,240 meters)
Range: 1,500 miles (2,419 kilometers) with 150,000 pounds (68,039 kilograms) of transfer fuel; ferry mission, up to 11,015 miles (17,766 kilometers)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 322,500 pounds (146,285 kilograms)
Maximum Transfer Fuel Load: 200,000 pounds (90,719 kilograms)
Maximum Cargo Capability: 83,000 pounds (37,648 kilograms), 37 passengers
Pallet Positions: 6
Crew: Four: pilot, co-pilot, navigator, boom operator. Aircraft equipped with PACER CRAG do not have a navigator on most missions. The Air Force procured a limited number of navigator suites that can be installed for unique missions.
The KC-135 Stratotanker's principal mission is air refueling. This unique asset greatly enhances the USAF's capability to accomplish its primary missions of Global Reach and Global Power. It also provides aerial refueling support to Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps aircraft as well as aircraft of allied nations.
Four turbofans, mounted under 35-degree swept wings, power the KC-135 to takeoffs at gross weights up to 322,500 pounds (146,285 kilograms). Nearly all internal fuel can be pumped through the tanker's flying boom, the KC-135 's primary fuel transfer method. A special shuttlecock-shaped drogue, attached to and trailing behind the flying boom, may be used to refuel aircraft fitted with probes. An operator stationed in the rear of the plane controls the boom. A cargo deck above the refueling system can hold a mixed load of passengers and cargo. Depending on fuel storage configuration, the KC-135 can carry up to 83,000 pounds (37,648 kilograms) of cargo.
In Southeast Asia, KC-135 Stratotankers made the air war different from all previous aerial conflicts. Midair refueling brought far-flung bombing targets within reach. Combat aircraft, no longer limited by fuel supplies, were able to spend more time in target areas.
AMC manages more than 546 total aircraft inventory Stratotankers, of which the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard fly 292 of those in support of AMC's mission.
The Boeing Company's model 367-80 was the basic design for the commercial 707 passenger plane as well as the KC-135A Stratotanker. In 1954 the Air Force purchased the first 29 of its future 732-plane fleet. The first aircraft flew in August 1956 and the initial production Stratotanker was delivered to Castle Air Force Base, Calif., in June 1957. The last KC-135 was delivered to the Air Force in 1965.
Of the original KC-135A's, more than 410 have been modified with new CFM-56 engines produced by CFM-International. The re-engined tanker, designated either the KC-135R or KC-135T, can offload 50 percent more fuel, is 25 percent more fuel efficient, costs 25 percent less to operate and is 96 percent quieter than the KC-135A.
Under another modification program, 157 Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard tankers were re-engined with the TF-33-PW-102 engines. The re-engined tanker, designated the KC-135E, is 14 percent more fuel efficient than the KC-135A and can offload 20 percent more fuel.
Through the years, the KC-135 has been altered to do other jobs ranging from flying command post missions to reconnaissance. The EC-135C is U.S. Strategic Command's flying command post. One EC-135C is always on alert, ready to take to the air and control bombers and missiles if ground control is lost. RC-135s are used for special reconnaissance and Air Force Material Command's NKC-135A's are flown in test programs. The Air Combat Command operates the OC-135 as an observation platform in compliance with the Open Skies Treaty.
Over the next few years, the aircraft will undergo upgrades to expand its capabilities and improve its reliability. Among these are improved communications, navigation and surveillance equipment to meet future civil air traffic control needs.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDYAvoTp5k0kUP8JJRnFOw8s6ntbwk!zEpC6CjV3OcdkAwApiKD0xZUK4IoVE*1Tmur8odvvZi1DhS58c5!v8O!aqf9wDel3LB7MsttX14/kc-135.jpg?dc=4675456339368862654[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UQADA1sYcuO2o6feXE7eWsVQHs!UVJX0W!YBG6SBYvomx69S79xqHd*6Zc4giJsHez2HniSaodV5POCjUjqV6BpjmE1J4cm*K0RSpB2RT12TrrZp!dSsR2OgVmjv39mz/avalon-kc135-576x432.jpg?dc=4675456338798082179[/IMG]

Im not an aeronautical engineer so my perspective is uneducated in aircraft design and modification, but such purposes (what your question is) would seem easy to do. Ofcourse having up public viewing access to such modified aircraft would end the mystery, but it would also expose a huge lie.

Heres a couple of images that seem puzzling, and again Im not claiming to state what is fact here or attempt to educate anyone, because I dont know myself. In what Ive seen in the past trails that follow aircraft that are what Ive always cosidered "normal" follow the engine specifically, expanding slightly, and disappearing. I understand (or for the most part) the science of why the trails linger relating to elements of humidity, alttitude, etc, but what about days that the elements arent at conditions that could support the normal linger of ice encapsulated ion dust particles, but yet they're still there.

This is whats suppose to be the explanation of the trails. Vapors into ice crystals. I admit to really needing to study the science of it more, because even though this is suppose to be normal, Ive seen so many without the trails in similiar conditions that an offshoot of slight altitude variation makes all the difference is still amazing to me.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QAAAAJwTfH6tL0uEq7lbfzF1TqWStU*L0AbykknDAU!ttyLP4Y3RaqlhrvEQdi5fu8s0NT23kg4c6uIWAq0FlSGidY9fRFotAAAAAAAAAAA/afo.jpg?dc=4675456333207864098[/IMG]

This is puzzling.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQBBA58UxsKij*K7TozdigCZn7EICf0b*AEicfuShjwvPCzYoYU7e86G4Zcc8A*uLJKq4XNaCsYbP82rSNkWgWRofq92xnpKu4Wutyng8N8/1059-img.jpg?dc=4675456338637911714[/IMG]

Heres some with the trails covering the entire wingspan. SItuational speed with alttitude variances? Theres thing that dont seem to add up. Look at the first one with the segmented trail. Looks something like what a spray would do if sputtered off than exhaust?

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDOApUUGb!6HPEypGkj7KiWrhRTjb*SU42uUMvjIx4jITUcrhTrAFEBZOLB7niZ0a9qASz3a32uqZDSprwCAtbvrxsNlMQWdTgunLU6IE0/mega1d.jpg?dc=4675456338901007094[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WwAsA0kb2uED7ZPZN6N7KXyCNIwNeHHfaVHEgGWuRvDywFw4yUrpSthW7UgI*L6aoWnziukK4zL4WcxQqqTPIMaRiWw0QFWYC3pC7Jy2ffTaw91ikhYuSm8iyPgcIbS2u*o!gHoFgaY/Sprayplane%2520010705%2520copy.jpg?dc=4675456339025879291[/IMG]

At first glance it appears this would have been simply "photochopped"; the break is so blatent it looks unreal with its given perspective. Im sure thats the reason the close up was put along side it to show the pixels havent been manipulated.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RAAsA2oUbbTzuKWNBVcfCWx3Nz2OtGc!0flJe2JpB3GG2!jOCbRkn01z7oPNk9e1LvR*uIO2tjPNnOPggIguRAq4!3XY1BuptPFMiKnBz5o/118-img.jpg?dc=4675456339505219912[/IMG]

Interesting pattern off shore in airspace that isnt used in the manner the trails suggest. That doesnt say much though because outside of air traffic controllers the general public wont know outside what they say. Reports however do come in from smaller airstrips about abnormal traffic routes.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YADYAoEcIGI5k0GX5NrLFRxoFWpH11xUB2Fxp5kOpDBp1o06MAxAzfr0Ia0ykCvObwWvk2rz*h29h7vs3MwPAJTdq*eFIP0ANbN*gf7wihOFBnwxsijscoTehg4thIYmOl3PIjx2NSm6cl0CTW96aQ/Pacific%2520Chemtrails,%25207-24-01.jpg?dc=4675456339628055976[/IMG]

I will dig for some pictures I took of different times I've found web like substances after heavy days. I was always wondering where all the spiders were at.

A really bad case was documented in the town I grew up in
www.mysteriousearth.com/archives/000097.html

I will try and find images I saved when first hearing about that. Strangely I cant seem to find them on the net anymore.

What I find most disturbing is the patent the Hughes company has with the airforce especially with the web substance. Testing different degrees of particle breakdown?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...r=0&p=1&f=S&l=

Sorry about the above link; I cant make it take you straight there for some reason. Once at the main page look up patent 4,791,076. There are four more patents with it all with compounds that are being found in collection samples.

Can anyone get this link to work for them?
http://www.au.af.mil/au/database/res...csc/9025ag.htm

Heres something of interest
These links are screwed:

Go to google and type in hr2977 congress

go to the first link

I wonder why it only exsists as a cache now. As I understand the 2002 version has the magic word taken out. I went to the Congress website to get an updated version; now its a bill about highway stations for infant waste. Does this strike anyone as odd? Are bills changed to that degree as referencing numbers? Does anyone know the current preservation acts number?

Sun Tzu · 01-20-2004, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shakran

also, chemtrails is the name given to airplane contrails by a bunch of paranoid freaks who think the government is brainwashing them with chemicals sprayed from the airplanes. It does not cover the testing of pesticides, chemical weapons, etc. So when you called them chemtrails, I figured you were saying that you believed the government is brainwashing us with them.

According to the US Congress thats not an accurate statement, but I will agree that Congress is comprised of a bunch of freaks that are too greedy to be paranoid. There's just as many people out there that believe "chem trails" have other purposes than brainwashing. If there are logical purposes for them that arent exactly healthy to human life, Im sure the brainwashing story works favorably to those responsible for doing it.

Then again I guess thats a paranoia in itself.

mr_mcrafe · 01-20-2004, 05:54 PM

I thought chemtrails were also caused by vortices around different parts of the aircraft, sometimes wingtips, little attachments, sticking out things etc. That explains the second pic, the first just looks like the sunset color is coloring the chemtrail. The others look sort of like this too, combined with overexposed photos.

Sun Tzu · 01-20-2004, 07:39 PM

The photographers state they were using telescopic lenses which makes sense, so Im guessing the multi hued effect is more from the light spectrum from being under the trail.

Would vortices really create lasting trails that expand and fall?

Sun Tzu · 01-20-2004, 07:57 PM

Another disturbing observation and commonly overlooked element is there are many occasions where the cirrus clouds and even the cumulus clouds were looking at; are not clouds at all but trails that have expanded.

These were taken over a three hour period in relatively the same spot.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgBVA1ESCDXL7*x9uvXg3K3V7Fb7*Qm!SCVLGdPVl4F6jRBprWkq1AUrrEzDo*LWCtAxtU9!tPPfHj9*V8OoiWLlBTloJber/abq1.jpg?dc=4675456431371266430[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgDOAlMSejXB!t1Fc!nim6sTdusydTN6*rLk9*!p6!8CmjUFm9PePclG2PmsOqDEIBx2jWSMZvUdy*bLBZBce58cXBOKrzMj/abq3.jpg?dc=4675456431639378968[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgAKA1QSszXGGt2PepTTbVSoq!kKHCt6QOTADN7rURe!lxwHUc85ahTC*iQRPZGEcZIgjkT0nTJXyajGMAzfaS*XrwkJmzrW/abq4.jpg?dc=4675456431742903587[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgAVA1US7DVJNhr5Czr6J9CceaV1FK8x8hy9QkmnmPtZ*S0ULXgUXwdKKVtKlcpoBAn3cs!BXe9BJz4eI2w3e7ysa5qT!lRO/abq5.jpg?dc=4675456431816622724[/IMG]

shakran · 01-21-2004, 03:32 PM

Sun Tzu:

your pics of the contrails have perfectly normal explanations. Starting from the top one (the red contrails)

Look at the sun. The sun is setting. It's red. When the sun's like that, clouds glow red too. All the red in the contrails is is sunlight reflecting off of them.

2nd one: Fuel dump. Jets have the ability to dump fuel if necessary (too heavy to land, for instance) The fuel flows out of ports in the wing tanks.

3rd, 4th, and 5th ones. These planes are clearly at extremely high altitudes. That's a LONG lens being used to get them that detailed. Contrails expand extremely rapidly at first at high altitude because there's very little air pressure. The weird colors are either an effect of the lens or a prismatic effect of the light shining through them.

6th (Mimbres, NM)

Several possibilities: Photoshopped (I don't care how close you zoom in, a good photoshop is undetectable)
Change in engine speed. Throttle back the engines and you'll cut contrail output.

Last picture. I assume you're referring to the thin wisps to the left of the large cloud next to California?

K. why the hell would there be a conspiracy to spray brainwashing, etc, chemicals OVER THE OPEN OCEAN? Are you suggesting a conspiracy against fishermen?

My whole point here is not that there are no conspiracies - there are. But to assume EVERYTHING, even events which are easilly explained in more conventional terms, is a conspiracy isn't the answer.

Besides, my original point stands. If the government wanted us to be exposed to some chemical, they'd put it in the water supply. Cheaper, easier, and more reliable.

Sun Tzu · 01-21-2004, 07:24 PM

shakran,

I never stated they were there for mind control. Its my view based on what Ive read and observed that they are weather related, HAARP related, and special frequency related.

I wasnt stating the top picture were radioactive chemtrails; I know theres a sunset there. I was comparing the two because of the question you asked; which still puzzles me a little. You obviously are versed on aircraft; are you really perplexed on where they would find room for chemicals.

DId you read through any of the info I provided.

A good place to start is google and type in "hr2977 congress"

Id provide a link but it doesnt seem to work from there. Find the 2002 version. Then look at the current version at the library of congress.

What Im understanding from you is that your stating there is just as much reason to dispprove theres something grey going on as there to believe it to be true, but the fact the government is denying it it must not be true. Is that correct?

I'll hunt down the science behind what you have stated in the long lens pics,

As far as the contrail cut off when several experts have verified it to be accurate all one has to go on is the words there reading, and if thats the case, anything anyone reads about anything is questionable.

Im not being a smart ass with this question; Im only asking becasue you may have stated in the past and I didnt catch it: are you jet pilot?

shakran · 01-22-2004, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
shakran,

I never stated they were there for mind control. Its my view based on what Ive read and observed that they are weather related, HAARP related, and special frequency related.

I wasnt stating the top picture were radioactive chemtrails; I know theres a sunset there. I was comparing the two because of the question you asked; which still puzzles me a little. You obviously are versed on aircraft; are you really perplexed on where they would find room for chemicals.

No, there's plenty of room to store the chemicals on the plane. Where I'm perplexed is that the chemtrails believers say EVERY major airline is involved, which is logical if you assume chemtrails exist because you'd have to use every major airline to get full coverage over the country. The problem I have with this idea is that I've crawled all over, around, inside, and through every type of jet Northwest flies. I've seen parts of the airplane even the pilots never see, and I never saw any chemical dispensation system. Sure, they could remove the tank to keep it from my sight (except that they never knew I was coming - my friend and I would just show up when we were bored and felt like being nerds for a day). So if they removed the tank, they've still got fluid lines from the tank to the outside of the aircraft (how you gonna hide the hole you leave in the body if you remove the fluid line, btw). You have the wiring, the electronic valve to open the lines and dispense the chemicals, the return line to maintain pressure in the system, and of course the switch in the cockpit to turn the thing on. None of this stuff was present on ANY of the airplanes I played around on.

Quote:

DId you read through any of the info I provided.

A good place to start is google and type in "hr2977 congress"

Id provide a link but it doesnt seem to work from there. Find the 2002 version. Then look at the current version at the library of congress.

I'll read it, but tomorrow. It's 2am

Quote:

What Im understanding from you is that your stating there is just as much reason to dispprove theres something grey going on as there to believe it to be true, but the fact the government is denying it it must not be true. Is that correct?

Oh hell no - I tend to mistrust just about everything the government says. However, my mistrust goes toward their usual activities, like when they say bullshit such as "the economy is great" or "no, Bush did not orchestrate the theft of the election in Florida."

The flip side is that just because the government denies something doesn't mean it's automatically true. If the government isn't dumping chemtrails, and someone accuses them of it, of course they're gonna deny it.

and nope, I'm not a jet pilot. Just a serious aviation nerd who's had a LOT of exposure to the big jets.

Sun Tzu · 01-22-2004, 08:43 PM

I guess I classify as a serious chem trailer, but only recently have begun to study the science of what Im trying to find out (in other words I have alot to learn), I dont believe every major airline is involved. i dont think any are involve actually. Its in my opinion some section of NATO is behind the entire scope of the issue.

Its the secrecy combined with the fact the speculated substances are more harmful than the standard pollutants of jet fuel waste, and what ever else will possibly never be uncovered.

Thankfully if there is mind control happening its really easy to protect against

zapatopi.net/afdb.html

ror23 · 01-24-2004, 02:05 AM

How much acid would it take anyway?

And why won't they put it in the water system?

Sun Tzu · 02-03-2004, 07:18 AM

Has anyone noticed one day out of every week that there are no trails in the sky?

Trails at night are increasing.

Rodney · 02-13-2004, 11:48 PM

I've seen contrails nearly every day of my life; comes from living near military air stations and under a major air traffic corridor. They have nothing to do with mind control, and my invisible friend Boswell agrees with me totally.

xim · 02-14-2004, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VitaminH
I believe it goes like this:
The government is NOT controlling you or subduing you in any way.

HAHAHAHAHA oh man thats great! Have you ever watched CNN?
Mind Control lies directly in the Media

When I came back from Europe a month ago I was flabberghasted at how bad CNN was as soon as I was reexposed to it. It went like this:

Quote:

OOOOHhhh dead baby syndrome oohhh the babies are dying....DEAD BABIES.....WHOA IS THE WORLD... we are all doomed, but look the government is fixing it all for you. The government is taking care of everything. YES YOU NEED THE GOVERNMENT. Without the government the universe would collapse.

ok so maybe those werent the exact words, but that was definatly the effect

xim · 02-14-2004, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ror23
How much acid would it take anyway?

And why won't they put it in the water system?

The government would NEVER give the people acid. Acid promotes free thought and stops you from being the gullible mindless sheep that they need you to be to keep you in control. The same is true (to a less extreme) of marijuana. Pot heads generally dont buy into the stupid trendy ideas that keep people buying crap and identifying with rediculous propaganda. Thats why there continues to be such a rediculous amount of money poured into the insane War on Some Drugs.

Putting acid in the water supply is what you should do if you want to free peoples minds, not control them.

GlassHouse420 · 02-20-2004, 03:20 PM

ive definetly seen them before... trails coming off the planes where normal vapotrails shouldnt come off of, and some criss-cross patterns...

VitaminH · 02-20-2004, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xim
The government would NEVER give the people acid. Acid promotes free thought and stops you from being the gullible mindless sheep that they need you to be to keep you in control. The same is true (to a less extreme) of marijuana. Pot heads generally dont buy into the stupid trendy ideas that keep people buying crap and identifying with rediculous propaganda. Thats why there continues to be such a rediculous amount of money poured into the insane War on Some Drugs.

Putting acid in the water supply is what you should do if you want to free peoples minds, not control them.

I'm having trouble understanding how a hallucinogen promotes free thought? I can't understand thinking freely when you're driving and the steering wheel turns into a snake and you turn around and you're being chased by 1,000 babies with knives.

Allow me to reiterate on my earlier post as well. "Chemtrails" are WATER. Nothing else. See my above post for a description of how it happens. Posting pictures of them does not convince me otherwise.

Sun Tzu · 02-21-2004, 05:05 AM

VitaminH; I dont know where xim is taking this (no offense to xim)

a few questions for you: in the Phoenix, Houston, Las Vegas, and San Diego- the only cities where I've had consistent collaboration of observation there is one day out of the week where there is no trails at all. Whats your take on that?

is this "water, ice crystalization, or whatever else the chemtrails have been written off as heavier than the makeup of c/c cloud formations.

Do you know what chemtrails are and what their purpose would be if they were being used by NATO nations?

Can you take the few minutes it will take to observe your sky over the next week and document if you see one day free of trails and if you see any at night.

12-05-2003, 11:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
Predator (tm) Upright	Chemtrails Has anyone hear ever read or heard about these. I started this this thread because today, i noticed it on a large scale where i live. Does anyone have any info or conspiracy theories on what these trails are for and or compsited of?

12-06-2003, 07:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Crack Misanthropic Location: Ohio! yay!	Mind control for the masses, some crackpots believe that they are seeding the populas with drugs that keep people from going crazy and revolting aginst the Goverment... __________________ Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex. ~Halx

12-08-2003, 06:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
rider6061 Crazy Location: oklahoma	I read somewhere that they may be weather control experiments __________________ Is This Thing On?

12-09-2003, 06:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Snakedance Enhanced With Psychotrophics Location: Snakepit	I have seen those my entire life, now that I know what a chemtrail looks like. Mind control? They need to do a better job with all the mind control, I mean have you seen Liza Minelli lately? All this time I have believed that they were contrails from planes. __________________ "When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. - Albert Einstein

12-10-2003, 10:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
VitaminH An embarrassment to myself and those around me... Location: Pants	I believe it goes like this: General rule of combustion, a totally clean combustion reaction ("burn" if you will) produces two products. Carbon Dioxide and Water. Jet engines burn jet fuel. Main result in the exhaust? Carbon Dioxide and Water. Air way up there is cold. Really cold. The water that gets shot out the back of the engine (as steam, since its hot from the burning) freezes real quick. Just like clouds in the sky. Hence you get an elongated thin "cloud" behined the jet engine. No mind controlling drugs. 'Sides, they would need HUGE amounts of chemicals to effect people on the ground, esp with the amount that they would blow around and disperse before they got to the ground fron 35,000 feet or however high jet airliners fly now. The government is NOT controlling you or subduing you in any way. They won't stop you from wearing a gas mask all day, so if you're worried, try that. Please feel free to correct me on any of this contrails stuff, I'm using rather basic knowledge of it. __________________ "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte

12-08-2003, 08:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
geodaro Psycho	Never heard of them. What are they? Should I be scared? I will go ahead and be scared until I hear something further. Please keep me posted!

12-09-2003, 05:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
macro Crazy Location: where you live	Yeah, OK a quick google produced waaaay too many conspiracy theories. A quick summary please?

12-10-2003, 12:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	For me the jury is still out on the issue. Planes have produced contrails since the invention of the jet engine. Heck, for all I know propeller aircraft also produce contrails. I am skeptical as it would take a LOT of chemicals disbursed at high altitude to mix into the lower atmosphere enough to affect a person. 'They' would be better off putting it into gasoline or diesel fuel and let motorized vehicles spread it around. Or maybe They already are!

12-16-2003, 03:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	prop engines would produce contrails as well, but to get one you generally have to be at altitudes that prop aircraft aren't real good at reaching - 20,000 feet and up.

12-17-2003, 01:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	I always thought mind control drugs were dispensed from average family saloon cars. __________________ .

12-31-2003, 05:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
fik Crazy Location: Tacoma, WA	The thought that those contrails from planes are chemicals and is part of the conspiracy is rediculous. I've watched regular planes way up leave those clouds and they hang around for a while. Just like how vitaminh was saying, wator vapor freezing. Though I do somewhat believe in the shadow government brainwashing, TV seems to be their favorite tool to do this, from what I've read.

01-08-2004, 03:05 AM	#14 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	yeah. How long do they let you out each day? Airplanes would be an incredibly inefficient way to brainwash the people. Why not just put the brainwash stuff into the water supply? Everyone drinks it, and it's much easier, cheaper, and reliable to distribute that way. Plus, there's no visual evidence as there is with this chemtrails crap. As for government brainwashing with TV. Nah. They're doing it through the public education system. Reference Minnesota's recent poly sci fight in which teachers had to fight the new social studies standards that emphasized how good America is and de-emphasized the stuff we've done wrong (slavery, oppression of the indians, etc)

01-08-2004, 06:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	It isn't anything to do with brainwashing, they need somewhere observable with a government that won't get pissed off to test dispersion of chemical and biological agents. The best we can hope for at the moment is that they're using something harmless. Last edited by MSD; 01-08-2004 at 08:59 AM..

01-08-2004, 08:05 AM	#17 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	During the three days following 9/11 the temperature in the los angeles basin was an average of three degrees f warmer due to the lack of trails from LAX. This was documented in discover magazine. Just more useless info for the masses, kinda cool though. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

01-08-2004, 02:34 PM	#19 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	that does at first blush seem weird, but if you ever take flying lessons you'll learn that the atmosphere does really weird things. If you see vapor trails disappearing way up in the sky, and then they don't disappear 5000 feet below them, it may seem weird to most people, but it's actually in all probability due to differences in atmospheric conditions. No wind, higher humidity, and the right temperature can cause vapor to hang around for a long time. For an example of this, notice how much more vapor there is and how much longer it lasts when it billows out of a smokestack at -15 F than it does at 90 F. After all, clouds are just vapor, and they hang around for a very long time also, chemtrails is the name given to airplane contrails by a bunch of paranoid freaks who think the government is brainwashing them with chemicals sprayed from the airplanes. It does not cover the testing of pesticides, chemical weapons, etc. So when you called them chemtrails, I figured you were saying that you believed the government is brainwashing us with them. And as a third point, I have a friend who's a maintainence worker for Northwest Airlines, and he gets me into their hangar to wander around and look at all the planes. I've crawled all over jets ranging from the DC-9 to the 747-400, even when they were stripped for refurbishment, leaving a lot of the skin off, and all the interior, including floors, out. In otherwords, I've seen all the hidden parts of the airplanes. There were NO holding tanks for any chemical that doesn't belong on an airplane (fuel, etc). I was not told to stay away from any part of any airplane (I've been in the wheel wells, in the engine pods, in a wing tank (won't do THAT again, nearly got trapped - the opening is tiny and I'm not), in the APU section (APU = aux power unit - the small jet engine in the tail that provides power when the main engines aren't on), on top of the vertical stabilizer, in the radome . . everywhere). The chemtrails lunatics claim that all the airlines are involved with dispersing these hypnotizing chemicals. Well, if Northwest is dispersing chemicals, they're not doing it with their jets.

01-16-2004, 08:44 PM	#20 (permalink)
JangoFett72 Tilted	Living near an Air Force base for over 25 years, contrails are nothing new to me. I have seen some contrails that take over an hour to dissipate.

01-18-2004, 09:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	I’ve never had a freshly collected report from a qualified scientific research collection agency that has the results from freshly collected soil and air particles of a fallen "chem trail", so all I have here is my opinion from what I've researched: There's is a distinctive difference between a contrail and chemtrail. Have you ever noticed two aircraft flying at relatively the same altitude (or at least what can be distinguished from the ground) and one is emitting a short trail the fades a dissipates a few feat behind it or doesn’t even have one in contrast to aircraft that are leaving the controversial trails that linger, expand, and fall? Is one jet using extra unleaded and the other regular? (that was a joke) Mind control drugs . . .I don’t personally believe- even though I would put it past. I think they're concentrated intentional discharges. Contrails are fuel related: exhaust from engines. Chemtrails are more like crop dusting. The reasons being global temp, weather, ozone, and ionosphere related. Secondary for communication enhancement. Substances like aluminum oxide are theorized to rebound some of the suns coronal emissions thus helping reduce the rate at which global warmer is occurring. Quartz and barium (other substance that have been collected) affects ion particles in the air enhancing a certain type of 3 dimentional communication and observation in relation to the curvature of the earth. As far as airborne viruses, or similar I don’t know. IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE in the US in other forms. I was wondering if anyone could get to this site: http://www.spawar.navy.mil/corporate...99/ca9942.html Whether or not whatever is in the chem trails was designed to intentionally harm humans is secondary to the fact that substances found from residual collections are harmful. I’ve heard that this issue wasn’t present before 1998. But its was more from the fact that they were started in the late 80s on a small scale and have increased up to now; with 1998 being the first years people began reporting them globally. I was wondering if whoever reads this could do an experiment and report the results here. The day from which you read this post over the course of a week, observe the sky. Is there one day of that week that you see very few trails or none at all? __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

01-18-2004, 11:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I tried everything that I legally can to get whatever is behind that link, but no luck. I can't find a single Navy proxy that's still running. I'll try your experiment.

01-20-2004, 04:35 AM	#24 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	KC-135 Stratotanker General Characteristics Primary Function: Aerial refueling and airlift Prime Contractor: The Boeing Company Power Plant: KC-135R/T, CFM International CFM-56 turbofan engines; KC-135E, Pratt and Whitney TF-33-PW-102 turbofan engines Thrust: KC-135R, 21,634 pounds each engine; KC-135E, 18,000 pounds each engine Wingspan: 130 feet, 10 inches (39.88 meters) Length: 136 feet, 3 inches (41.53 meters) Height: 41 feet, 8 inches (12.7 meters) Speed: 530 miles per hour at 30,000 feet (9,144 meters) Ceiling: 50,000 feet (15,240 meters) Range: 1,500 miles (2,419 kilometers) with 150,000 pounds (68,039 kilograms) of transfer fuel; ferry mission, up to 11,015 miles (17,766 kilometers) Maximum Takeoff Weight: 322,500 pounds (146,285 kilograms) Maximum Transfer Fuel Load: 200,000 pounds (90,719 kilograms) Maximum Cargo Capability: 83,000 pounds (37,648 kilograms), 37 passengers Pallet Positions: 6 Crew: Four: pilot, co-pilot, navigator, boom operator. Aircraft equipped with PACER CRAG do not have a navigator on most missions. The Air Force procured a limited number of navigator suites that can be installed for unique missions. The KC-135 Stratotanker's principal mission is air refueling. This unique asset greatly enhances the USAF's capability to accomplish its primary missions of Global Reach and Global Power. It also provides aerial refueling support to Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps aircraft as well as aircraft of allied nations. Four turbofans, mounted under 35-degree swept wings, power the KC-135 to takeoffs at gross weights up to 322,500 pounds (146,285 kilograms). Nearly all internal fuel can be pumped through the tanker's flying boom, the KC-135 's primary fuel transfer method. A special shuttlecock-shaped drogue, attached to and trailing behind the flying boom, may be used to refuel aircraft fitted with probes. An operator stationed in the rear of the plane controls the boom. A cargo deck above the refueling system can hold a mixed load of passengers and cargo. Depending on fuel storage configuration, the KC-135 can carry up to 83,000 pounds (37,648 kilograms) of cargo. In Southeast Asia, KC-135 Stratotankers made the air war different from all previous aerial conflicts. Midair refueling brought far-flung bombing targets within reach. Combat aircraft, no longer limited by fuel supplies, were able to spend more time in target areas. AMC manages more than 546 total aircraft inventory Stratotankers, of which the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard fly 292 of those in support of AMC's mission. The Boeing Company's model 367-80 was the basic design for the commercial 707 passenger plane as well as the KC-135A Stratotanker. In 1954 the Air Force purchased the first 29 of its future 732-plane fleet. The first aircraft flew in August 1956 and the initial production Stratotanker was delivered to Castle Air Force Base, Calif., in June 1957. The last KC-135 was delivered to the Air Force in 1965. Of the original KC-135A's, more than 410 have been modified with new CFM-56 engines produced by CFM-International. The re-engined tanker, designated either the KC-135R or KC-135T, can offload 50 percent more fuel, is 25 percent more fuel efficient, costs 25 percent less to operate and is 96 percent quieter than the KC-135A. Under another modification program, 157 Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard tankers were re-engined with the TF-33-PW-102 engines. The re-engined tanker, designated the KC-135E, is 14 percent more fuel efficient than the KC-135A and can offload 20 percent more fuel. Through the years, the KC-135 has been altered to do other jobs ranging from flying command post missions to reconnaissance. The EC-135C is U.S. Strategic Command's flying command post. One EC-135C is always on alert, ready to take to the air and control bombers and missiles if ground control is lost. RC-135s are used for special reconnaissance and Air Force Material Command's NKC-135A's are flown in test programs. The Air Combat Command operates the OC-135 as an observation platform in compliance with the Open Skies Treaty. Over the next few years, the aircraft will undergo upgrades to expand its capabilities and improve its reliability. Among these are improved communications, navigation and surveillance equipment to meet future civil air traffic control needs. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDYAvoTp5k0kUP8JJRnFOw8s6ntbwk!zEpC6CjV3OcdkAwApiKD0xZUK4IoVE1Tmur8odvvZi1DhS58c5!v8O!aqf9wDel3LB7MsttX14/kc-135.jpg?dc=4675456339368862654[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UQADA1sYcuO2o6feXE7eWsVQHs!UVJX0W!YBG6SBYvomx69S79xqHd6Zc4giJsHez2HniSaodV5POCjUjqV6BpjmE1J4cmK0RSpB2RT12TrrZp!dSsR2OgVmjv39mz/avalon-kc135-576x432.jpg?dc=4675456338798082179[/IMG] Im not an aeronautical engineer so my perspective is uneducated in aircraft design and modification, but such purposes (what your question is) would seem easy to do. Ofcourse having up public viewing access to such modified aircraft would end the mystery, but it would also expose a huge lie. Heres a couple of images that seem puzzling, and again Im not claiming to state what is fact here or attempt to educate anyone, because I dont know myself. In what Ive seen in the past trails that follow aircraft that are what Ive always cosidered "normal" follow the engine specifically, expanding slightly, and disappearing. I understand (or for the most part) the science of why the trails linger relating to elements of humidity, alttitude, etc, but what about days that the elements arent at conditions that could support the normal linger of ice encapsulated ion dust particles, but yet they're still there. This is whats suppose to be the explanation of the trails. Vapors into ice crystals. I admit to really needing to study the science of it more, because even though this is suppose to be normal, Ive seen so many without the trails in similiar conditions that an offshoot of slight altitude variation makes all the difference is still amazing to me. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QAAAAJwTfH6tL0uEq7lbfzF1TqWStUL0AbykknDAU!ttyLP4Y3RaqlhrvEQdi5fu8s0NT23kg4c6uIWAq0FlSGidY9fRFotAAAAAAAAAAA/afo.jpg?dc=4675456333207864098[/IMG] This is puzzling. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQBBA58UxsKijK7TozdigCZn7EICf0bAEicfuShjwvPCzYoYU7e86G4Zcc8AuLJKq4XNaCsYbP82rSNkWgWRofq92xnpKu4Wutyng8N8/1059-img.jpg?dc=4675456338637911714[/IMG] Heres some with the trails covering the entire wingspan. SItuational speed with alttitude variances? Theres thing that dont seem to add up. Look at the first one with the segmented trail. Looks something like what a spray would do if sputtered off than exhaust? [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDOApUUGb!6HPEypGkj7KiWrhRTjbSU42uUMvjIx4jITUcrhTrAFEBZOLB7niZ0a9qASz3a32uqZDSprwCAtbvrxsNlMQWdTgunLU6IE0/mega1d.jpg?dc=4675456338901007094[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WwAsA0kb2uED7ZPZN6N7KXyCNIwNeHHfaVHEgGWuRvDywFw4yUrpSthW7UgIL6aoWnziukK4zL4WcxQqqTPIMaRiWw0QFWYC3pC7Jy2ffTaw91ikhYuSm8iyPgcIbS2uo!gHoFgaY/Sprayplane%2520010705%2520copy.jpg?dc=4675456339025879291[/IMG] At first glance it appears this would have been simply "photochopped"; the break is so blatent it looks unreal with its given perspective. Im sure thats the reason the close up was put along side it to show the pixels havent been manipulated. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RAAsA2oUbbTzuKWNBVcfCWx3Nz2OtGc!0flJe2JpB3GG2!jOCbRkn01z7oPNk9e1LvRuIO2tjPNnOPggIguRAq4!3XY1BuptPFMiKnBz5o/118-img.jpg?dc=4675456339505219912[/IMG] Interesting pattern off shore in airspace that isnt used in the manner the trails suggest. That doesnt say much though because outside of air traffic controllers the general public wont know outside what they say. Reports however do come in from smaller airstrips about abnormal traffic routes. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YADYAoEcIGI5k0GX5NrLFRxoFWpH11xUB2Fxp5kOpDBp1o06MAxAzfr0Ia0ykCvObwWvk2rzh29h7vs3MwPAJTdqeFIP0ANbNgf7wihOFBnwxsijscoTehg4thIYmOl3PIjx2NSm6cl0CTW96aQ/Pacific%2520Chemtrails,%25207-24-01.jpg?dc=4675456339628055976[/IMG] I will dig for some pictures I took of different times I've found web like substances after heavy days. I was always wondering where all the spiders were at. A really bad case was documented in the town I grew up in www.mysteriousearth.com/archives/000097.html I will try and find images I saved when first hearing about that. Strangely I cant seem to find them on the net anymore. What I find most disturbing is the patent the Hughes company has with the airforce especially with the web substance. Testing different degrees of particle breakdown? http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...r=0&p=1&f=S&l= Sorry about the above link; I cant make it take you straight there for some reason. Once at the main page look up patent 4,791,076. There are four more patents with it all with compounds that are being found in collection samples. Can anyone get this link to work for them? http://www.au.af.mil/au/database/res...csc/9025ag.htm Heres something of interest These links are screwed: Go to google and type in hr2977 congress go to the first link I wonder why it only exsists as a cache now. As I understand the 2002 version has the magic word taken out. I went to the Congress website to get an updated version; now its a bill about highway stations for infant waste. Does this strike anyone as odd? Are bills changed to that degree as referencing numbers? Does anyone know the current preservation acts number? __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 01-20-2004 at 11:29 AM..

01-20-2004, 05:54 PM	#26 (permalink)
mr_mcrafe Banned Location: auckland, nz	I thought chemtrails were also caused by vortices around different parts of the aircraft, sometimes wingtips, little attachments, sticking out things etc. That explains the second pic, the first just looks like the sunset color is coloring the chemtrail. The others look sort of like this too, combined with overexposed photos.

01-20-2004, 07:39 PM	#27 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	The photographers state they were using telescopic lenses which makes sense, so Im guessing the multi hued effect is more from the light spectrum from being under the trail. Would vortices really create lasting trails that expand and fall? __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

01-20-2004, 07:57 PM	#28 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Another disturbing observation and commonly overlooked element is there are many occasions where the cirrus clouds and even the cumulus clouds were looking at; are not clouds at all but trails that have expanded. These were taken over a three hour period in relatively the same spot. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgBVA1ESCDXL7x9uvXg3K3V7Fb7Qm!SCVLGdPVl4F6jRBprWkq1AUrrEzDoLWCtAxtU9!tPPfHj9V8OoiWLlBTloJber/abq1.jpg?dc=4675456431371266430[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgDOAlMSejXB!t1Fc!nim6sTdusydTN6rLk9!p6!8CmjUFm9PePclG2PmsOqDEIBx2jWSMZvUdybLBZBce58cXBOKrzMj/abq3.jpg?dc=4675456431639378968[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgAKA1QSszXGGt2PepTTbVSoq!kKHCt6QOTADN7rURe!lxwHUc85ahTCiQRPZGEcZIgjkT0nTJXyajGMAzfaSXrwkJmzrW/abq4.jpg?dc=4675456431742903587[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PgAVA1US7DVJNhr5Czr6J9CceaV1FK8x8hy9QkmnmPtZS0ULXgUXwdKKVtKlcpoBAn3cs!BXe9BJz4eI2w3e7ysa5qT!lRO/abq5.jpg?dc=4675456431816622724[/IMG] __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

01-21-2004, 03:32 PM	#29 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Sun Tzu: your pics of the contrails have perfectly normal explanations. Starting from the top one (the red contrails) Look at the sun. The sun is setting. It's red. When the sun's like that, clouds glow red too. All the red in the contrails is is sunlight reflecting off of them. 2nd one: Fuel dump. Jets have the ability to dump fuel if necessary (too heavy to land, for instance) The fuel flows out of ports in the wing tanks. 3rd, 4th, and 5th ones. These planes are clearly at extremely high altitudes. That's a LONG lens being used to get them that detailed. Contrails expand extremely rapidly at first at high altitude because there's very little air pressure. The weird colors are either an effect of the lens or a prismatic effect of the light shining through them. 6th (Mimbres, NM) Several possibilities: Photoshopped (I don't care how close you zoom in, a good photoshop is undetectable) Change in engine speed. Throttle back the engines and you'll cut contrail output. Last picture. I assume you're referring to the thin wisps to the left of the large cloud next to California? K. why the hell would there be a conspiracy to spray brainwashing, etc, chemicals OVER THE OPEN OCEAN? Are you suggesting a conspiracy against fishermen? My whole point here is not that there are no conspiracies - there are. But to assume EVERYTHING, even events which are easilly explained in more conventional terms, is a conspiracy isn't the answer. Besides, my original point stands. If the government wanted us to be exposed to some chemical, they'd put it in the water supply. Cheaper, easier, and more reliable.

01-21-2004, 07:24 PM	#30 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	shakran, I never stated they were there for mind control. Its my view based on what Ive read and observed that they are weather related, HAARP related, and special frequency related. I wasnt stating the top picture were radioactive chemtrails; I know theres a sunset there. I was comparing the two because of the question you asked; which still puzzles me a little. You obviously are versed on aircraft; are you really perplexed on where they would find room for chemicals. DId you read through any of the info I provided. A good place to start is google and type in "hr2977 congress" Id provide a link but it doesnt seem to work from there. Find the 2002 version. Then look at the current version at the library of congress. What Im understanding from you is that your stating there is just as much reason to dispprove theres something grey going on as there to believe it to be true, but the fact the government is denying it it must not be true. Is that correct? I'll hunt down the science behind what you have stated in the long lens pics, As far as the contrail cut off when several experts have verified it to be accurate all one has to go on is the words there reading, and if thats the case, anything anyone reads about anything is questionable. Im not being a smart ass with this question; Im only asking becasue you may have stated in the past and I didnt catch it: are you jet pilot? __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

01-22-2004, 08:43 PM	#32 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	I guess I classify as a serious chem trailer, but only recently have begun to study the science of what Im trying to find out (in other words I have alot to learn), I dont believe every major airline is involved. i dont think any are involve actually. Its in my opinion some section of NATO is behind the entire scope of the issue. Its the secrecy combined with the fact the speculated substances are more harmful than the standard pollutants of jet fuel waste, and what ever else will possibly never be uncovered. Thankfully if there is mind control happening its really easy to protect against zapatopi.net/afdb.html __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 01-22-2004 at 08:47 PM..

01-24-2004, 02:05 AM	#33 (permalink)
ror23 Upright	How much acid would it take anyway? And why won't they put it in the water system?

02-03-2004, 07:18 AM	#34 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Has anyone noticed one day out of every week that there are no trails in the sky? Trails at night are increasing. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

02-13-2004, 11:48 PM	#35 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	I've seen contrails nearly every day of my life; comes from living near military air stations and under a major air traffic corridor. They have nothing to do with mind control, and my invisible friend Boswell agrees with me totally.

02-20-2004, 03:20 PM	#38 (permalink)
GlassHouse420 Hysterical And Useless Location: In a cage, on antibiotics	ive definetly seen them before... trails coming off the planes where normal vapotrails shouldnt come off of, and some criss-cross patterns... __________________ notlivingjustkillingtime

02-21-2004, 05:05 AM	#40 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	VitaminH; I dont know where xim is taking this (no offense to xim) a few questions for you: in the Phoenix, Houston, Las Vegas, and San Diego- the only cities where I've had consistent collaboration of observation there is one day out of the week where there is no trails at all. Whats your take on that? is this "water, ice crystalization, or whatever else the chemtrails have been written off as heavier than the makeup of c/c cloud formations. Do you know what chemtrails are and what their purpose would be if they were being used by NATO nations? Can you take the few minutes it will take to observe your sky over the next week and document if you see one day free of trails and if you see any at night. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 02-21-2004 at 05:43 PM..