pan6467

I am a firm believer that this movie is very close to what is truly happening. John Carpenter is one of the few directors or people in the media that consistently points to the secret underbelly wanting to take over that may exist.

As the clips I bring forth say, take away the campy sci-fi storyline and look under it and see how accurate what this movie says. I truly like what these clips say and think we better waken because I don't think we have much more time before the end.





I think the only thing I can truly disagree with is that I believe there is a very distinct and not even subtle anti semitic/christianity movement in this country and possibly the world.

I also tend to believe that there are at least 2 groups one that passively and at times will actively try to awaken the people (hence the allowed making and release of They Live among other movies, books and media or even people like John Lennon, allow Rebel Celtic and others to get away on the internet with the Rebel Celtic messages) and the ones that actively control all and want to keep us asleep and they work to make those things that are allowed through to be labeled insane, paranoia and so on.

So what do you think? Did what the Rebel Celtic show change you views of the movie or life in general?

Do you think any of what he proposes is possible? Why or why not?

Let's hear your thoughts.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Plan9

"TeeVee is for learning."

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

LordEden

Seems like this guy just ripped off a bunch of Fight Club philosophy (which was ripped off from Buddhist philosophy and other authors) and rehashed it based on a John Carpenter movie. I ever heard straight quotes from the movie, repeated by this guy.

From the view point of a frustrated, white, privileged, 1st world male, this sounds like something could be called the "truth". Then again, I don't wear a tin-foil hat anymore.

Also, I have a hard time believing anything that is based on this guy.



Anyone else find this ironic that he is talking about "TV and hollywood" programming and is using the next way of "media" to tell us how "media" is brainwashing us.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

FuglyStick

I just came in here for this; carry on.

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

pan6467

You obviously did not watch nor do you have any clue as to what the contents were.

He quotes from the movie directly. He pulls a scene and goes into detail the possible double meaning and how it is applied to the type of conspiracy he (Celtic Rebel) is talking about. He also quotes authors and philosophies that he uses in his theories.

Secondly, Celtic Rebel came out with this and YouTubed it 10/15/2008.... your fight club clips were youtube dated 4/23/2009, the second later than that dated 9/26/2009, so if anyone were to have ripped off anyone's philosophy and style......

Thirdly... given the 2 reasons above the rest of what you say has no meaning nor elicits a response because as I have pointed out to you, you obviously have not watched all 3 clips and have nothing to add and tried to troll, flame or whatever.



I will however answer this, youtube being for the most part uncensored and the fastest way and reaching the most amount of people to get info out in a video way, it only makes sense he would use Youtube. He also has a website and a radio show. While that in and of itself means nothing and I am in no way trying to imply that this alone makes his claims legit or illegit, simply that he does use a mode that many would use to cry out against conspiracy. He is not the only one who does this, it does not make his or anyone using the net's claims any more or less legitimate... to say it would is foolish. Now if this were sponsored by Pepsi or produced by Viacom... you would have a far better argument.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Plan9

Let's not forget that he's hear to kick ass and chew bubblegum.

...

I've seen waves of dumbasses wave Fight Club as a philosophical bible, but not They Live. This is kinda new and amazing. I love John Carpenter.

What's the anti-Obama message in Prince of Darkness? Is BP responsible for The Thing?

...

Pan, the social dystopia theme popular in movies like Fight Club, They Live, Equilibrium, etc. and represents escapist entertainment at its finest.

Fight the man!

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

FuglyStick

Pretentious claptrap. A simpleton masquerading as a prophet. Horseshit in a handbag.

The people who are getting the wool pulled over their eyes are the ones who are buying this as brilliant. I was a college sophomore once too (thanks, Colbert).

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

pan6467

And he's all out of bubblegum.

...



I took the first part and lumped it into the second for the response.

This made me lol out loud (thanks Monk). I wouldn't say Obama but it's a warning of what could happen.

BP... hmmmm possibly.

...

Fight the man!

I never saw Fight Club, have no desire. The very first time I saw They Live, I could see possibilities of a double entendre. It is far more possible than just about any other "conspiracy" movie out there. (Again, take out the campy aliens and put in the Illuminati, the Masons, etc).

I just find this movie in particular extremely relevent and highly possible. We have had studies on subliminals, Art started a thread about media brainwashing... why brainwash the people? To buy more at lower wages? I don't think so. To take away a spirit of fight, redirect and pacify so as to allow a bloodless, resistant free takeover, extremely possible.

I would truly like to see John Carpenter himself respond to the above videos and tell us what he thinks.

Did you watch the clips in their entirety, just skim thru or not watch them at all and decided to just lump this one in with all others and just say escapism at its finest? If you haven't watched them, all I ask is to do so with as open a mind as possible. then come to your conclusion.

We can even debate points the Celtic Rebel makes.

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

And did you watch all three clips in their entirety or are you just sputtering out what you think may get a laugh from someone, or trying to "prove how smart you truly is?"

Because if you watched it, I'd like to know how you came to see this guy masquerading as a prophet.

If you did not watch it in it's entirety, then how can you call it anything? Who does he quote from at the end about how easy it would be to take over, and how would the take over be accomplished?
What other movies does he show clips of?
What exactly did he say about South Park and what is the reason he uses it?
Whay are there pictures of Darth Vaders on the Final clip and what are his reasons for including these?

If you watched it... you can easily answer 2 of those if not all of them.

If you can, then you can validate your opinion... if not, simply say, I have not watched them but I think/feel/or believe they are probably.... otherwise to me, you don't add content, you're just posting to flame, troll or for attention. Because you have no basis to your statements and are not offering debate or true opinion in anyway.

True debate/opinion would be... "his use of x and the statement he makes here... I find juvenile, very common and unrealistic, that was sheer paranoia BS..." That shows you watched it and formed a true opinion. And that I can very much respect and understand.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

FuglyStick

My opinion is that the hypothesis presented by the initial post is bullshit. That sums it up. To debate it lends some credibility to the hypothesis, so I'm not going to do it, just like I wouldn't waste time debating a flat-earther.

Enjoy your hunt for the boogeyman, or Santa Claus, or whatever is lurking in your closet.

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

pan6467

That's an opinion with basis and one I can respect.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

LordEden

QFT. Again, fugly speaks the truth.

I did, granted I lost interest when he started telling me how Star Wars was a social commentary on the future fall of our empire. Yeah, not buying that in the least.

Really? I mean really? Did you even IMDB Fight club's release date or when the orginal book was wrote? Fight club ripped off this guy? Are you really... you know what, nevermind.

If I wanted to troll this thread, I could have said a lot worse than what I did. I watched the clips, I thought they were a crock of bullshit and this guy is a complete idiot. You ask me what I thought and I said what I had to say, then you call me a troll. You use poorly researched responses to tell me I'm wrong. Nice debating skills. *golf clap*

Why I posted in this cesspool of a group (TParanoia and TPoltics) I have no idea. I'm gone.

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Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Plan9

Somebody move this thread to TiltedHumor.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pan6467

Ok, again, I can live with that... but then you have to comment and debate soooo.

That is not even close to what he said about star wars. Not even paraphrased but... you want to say that it was, either you were not paying attention or you truly did not watch them and are pulling guesses out of thin air.


So because Fight Club came out the YOUTUBES you posted have no meaning except you were telling me how he copied everything from those videos... if that is your take, I don't see it except maybe in a broad way... but ok.


No, you say you don't want to debate, you say you watched them and came to this vehement conclusion... ok. As with Fugly, I respect your opinion and desire not to debate.

I have a different conclusion and opinion obviously. I hope you can respect mine as I respect yours. I don't have to resort to name calling, anger, etc. Sorry you have to.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Plan9

But what if the "Wake Up!"-screamin' rebels are working for the man?! Trust no one. And make sure you put on those headache-inducing sunglasses.

...

Okay, Pan... riddle me this:

What was the political purpose of Roddy Piper and The Black Guy That Isn't Carl Weathers beating the shit outta each other in the alley for 20 minutes?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pan6467

Isn't the purpose of having a "paranoia" topic to get threads to discuss among other things conspiracy theories?

I don't know why people have to feel they have to post if all they can do is ridicule another's beliefs. NO debate, no facts exchanged... NOTHING just go in and ridicule and try to get high 5's and slaps on the back and possibly to intimidate (by embarrassment) those that may want to post and talk about the OP.

Again, then why post. The topic is paranoia... it will contain conspiracy theories if you do not believe move elsewhere... otherwise, it seems to me the sole purpose of your postings are to ridicule and spread hate and show no respect to the OP or those that may want to take it seriously and post...

...

*+* note I believe Plan 9 edited this out of his previous post, but it came on when I quoted it so, I replied to it.+*+ ok you put it back in.....

The Black Guy is David Keith and a Hell of an actor, who, if I am not mistaken has done quite a bit more work than Carl Weathers.

Well if you watched the videos you'd know. According to Celtic Rebel, it is the battle showing one man waking up and having to battle those closest to them to truly see what is going on. And while the family member may fight and walk away thinking the man nuts, while the "awakened" one is willing to fight to the death just to be heard and show what he knows while the family member is given free choice to make his conclusion. That was Celtic Rebel's basic gist. Also the reason it was so long was this was to show the importance in showing the "truth" and that it is a long battle in real life. Celtic spent quite a bit of time on it.

So if you watched it and you "know" what was Celtic's take on Piper's story of his dad holding a knife to his throat and trying to kill him?

and what did he find very interesting about the South Park part he included?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Plan9

Yes, but this is ridiculous. I get it, Pan. This whole "us sheeple-peeple are asleep because we're fat, dumb and happy consumers" shit is true and nothing new. Because we are. We love money and that "puts us to sleep." They control the horizontal, they control the vertical. They control the media, they control politics, they control the guns and grain and when that watered-down HBO porn comes on at night. But they isn't a singular they. It's a bunch of theys and the theys are always eating each other like the fish in a Dr. Seuss book. It's all speculation on my part, but hey... I went to college, right?

JFK? Okay. European munitions caches found in northern Iraq in 2003? I saw 'em. Moon landing? Okay. 2012 apocalypse? I'm there.

But John Carpenter, the guy that came up with the celluloid abortion known as Ghosts of Mars, as a political commentator? Laughable.

And you didn't answer my question about all dem knuckle sammiches in the alley.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Jinn

Media analysis is a valid and even venerated study and has in the last few decades revealed a boatload of information about childhood socialization and how it is that we internalize messages, both explicit and implicit in the media. One of my favorite classes in college was one that analyzed male and female sexualization in tandem with developments in media; the sexualization of MTV, music, etc., and how it changed how men and women saw themselves. Whether men thought it was okay to cry, whether women thought it was okay to lie to get what they wanted, how men and women should solicit sex, etc., etc.

The difference between those sorts of credible studies and this (among other things) is that they are presented as actual studies - as correlations and p-values and patient interviews and double-blinding and peer review. This, on the other hand, was hard for me to elevate beyond the level of "loose change" idiocy - I notice a pattern, and therefore it exists.

Another recent and stunning revelation in neuroscience and psychology is just how hardwired we humans are for detecting two things; agency and patternicity. It makes sense, when bolstered by studies in evolutionary psychology, but generally speaking we will find patterns and agency (a conscious force) even when there is none. This is a case of seeing God in the clouds, the Masonic order in the paintings at Denver Airport, or Jesus and the virigin mary in a piece of toast.

I can't be entirely hard on it, because it was interesting, if not particularly accurate.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

pan6467

Why is it laughable, because YOU do not agree with it, so therefore your entire purpose is to come in and ridicule someone else's belief and what they put forth to support it? Let's not debate, we'll just ridicule and intimidate people with embarrassment for possibly wanting to post and talk about it... we won't even watch it... we'll just ridicule and shut them up that way.


Answered in the post directly above the one I am now responding to.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Baraka_Guru

My thoughts? This Celtic Rebel guy is about 30 some-odd years late. He has almost completely missed the postmodern movement of the 20th century, which so happens to be in its death throes as we speak. Many consider 9/11 the fatal blow.

His use of They Live as a metaphor for our life and times is *at best* nearly laughable. But he made some interesting attempts at it. The only problem is that he's rehashing old ideas that are falling out of use because they've already done their work and it's not working anymore.

Postmodernism was chiefly concerned with dismantling and otherwise undoing what was regarded as Universal Truth. Its main weapon was irony and self-awareness (i.e. metafiction, metafilm, etc.). It used this irony and awareness as a means to "play" with established norms, which they viewed as overbearing and controlling. It took what the modernists did with truth-seeking and went further. The modernists railed against established institutions and norms after the Great Wars and believed that the truth was out there somewhere; it's just hidden beneath the influences of the powers that be. Key modernist figures include the likes of T. S. Eliot, James Joyce, and the Dadaists. Have a look at their stuff and then consider their opinions on war, religion, and politics.

Postmodernism, however, took the modernist idea further by stating: Universal Truth? There's no such thing. They looked at humanity as beings of fragmentation, isolation, independence, and crisis, much of this based on this idea that Truth was controlled. However, through such means as deconstructionism---as revealed and demonstrated through the arts---the postmodernists believed that the idea of a Universal Truth was impossible because of the complex and unstable nature of humanity. It looked at Grand Narratives as false and therefore dismantled them via localized narratives. This is where much of feminist, LGBT, postcolonial, and otherwise marginal art came from, this idea of fighting against those who would control society and therefore what is "true" and "real."

But as I suggested, the peak of postmodern theory occurred sometime in the '70s, but the art continued to develop for the rest of the 20th century, near the end of which we began to see art produced that would reject postmodernism on the basis of it being insincere. You see, if everything is metaphor and has underlying and playful meaning, it isn't concerned about the truth. It's more concerned about disproof or dismantling falsity. Irony is insincere, and people are growing tired of it. Some claim it's even dead.

So I don't understand why Celtic Rebel would use an example such as They Live when there is a wealth of better made literature, film, visual art, etc., from which he could have derived his ideas for "we are ignorant to the truth."

But that's not his only problem.

I reject his arguments also because his sources are ridiculous. He uses, or otherwise believes/values:

• Faulty generalizations (we're all sheeple!)
• Neurolinguistic programming
• Subliminal messages
• Fluoride/vaccination paranoia
• The 9/11 Truth movement
• Freudism (which has pretty much been left behind in the 20th century)
• and I'm sure a few other things I have forgotten about already

Further, he views Lucas' work from an occultist/ufologist/divination perspective when the single most obvious sourcing for Star Wars is Joseph Campbell's monomyth (Lucas is open about this). This means that Lucas's story is essentially a story that has been told countless times throughout history (so the theory goes; there are, at least, patterns on the macro side of things).

And finally, he makes reference to a perpetual system that cannot be controlled or changed by future users. This is more bullocks that the postmodernists have had a fun time with, mainly through what they call poststructuralism, a rejection of structuralist beliefs. Structuralism viewed human aspects such as language, meaning, social patterns, etc., as established unchanging structures (i.e. systems). However, poststructuralist thought suggests that this is impossible because of the complex and often chaotic nature of humanity and the universe. Human societies do not operate within a closed system.

This is a lot to put into a nutshell, but there you have it.


TLDR;


Our buddy Celtic Rebel is late to the game; the postmodernists beat him to it and did so alongside movements in art that accomplished much, much more than he could ever hope to.

Furthermore, postmodernism is pretty much dead, which means irony could possibly become uncool before we know it.

If he really wanted to be leading-edge and profound, he should have taken a more sincere approach. He should have just served us the straight goods instead of a silly interpretation of what's essentially a terrible film.

(With apologies to John Carpenter, Rowdy Roddy Piper, and a black guy who may or may not be Carl Weathers.)

Fight Club *would* have been a better example, as it is a great postmodern satire. Chuck Palahniuk's other work as a writer is typically in the same vein. The film adaptation was well done. It even had metafilm bits, the most famous being the first clip Eden posted. Another one was the bit they did of Tyler working as a film projectionist. Anyway, the book was written in 1996. The '80s and '90s produced several decent postmodern novels, and so Palahniuk was writing in the midst of that.

I wouldn't say Celtic Rebel ripped off Fight Club philosophy; more accurately, he's trying to be a postmodernist a few years too late. Besides, I see more of Don DeLillo in this. You should read DeLillo if only for his commentary on consumerist society. Start with White Noise (1985).

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Yeah, I thought the Carl Weathers thing would be funnier. Sorry.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

I should probably take a few words to clarify my conclusion.

The video has a muddled message. It seems like it's saying, "There's something wrong with the world, and it probably has something to do with mind control and the Jews...."

In hindsight, and after my post above, if it took the "straight goods" sincere approach, it might have come out to say something like:

Blah, blah, blah, you know the rest.

Bottom line: he's full of shit. Sure, the world isn't a pretty place, but he's not quite getting it right.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot