Tupac Shakur - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pacaveli · 09-24-2004, 05:15 PM

I think he is the best rapper of all time, and one of the best song writers ever. The mans lyrics could be deep, inspiring, hateful, caring, and even spirtual. anybody eles have comon veiws on him, any1 have opposing veiws on him

Rdr4evr · 09-24-2004, 05:56 PM

I think he is the most over-rated rap "artist" of all time. The man has been dead for how many years now? He is more popular in death than he ever was in life. The whole "thug life" BS got really old really fast, and it still continues to go down. I'm not saying he is a bad rapper, I'm just saying he is not as good as people make him out to be.

pacaveli · 09-24-2004, 07:56 PM

as u may of gussed i disagree, prolly all u've really heard is the shit that gets played on the radio. When really a lot of his best stuff is on his cd's. The thug life u speak of was prolly not what u think, it's an word thing that he made up
The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone

Rdr4evr · 09-24-2004, 08:26 PM

Quote:

The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone

? You lost me

Jeff · 09-24-2004, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacaveli

The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone

Yeah, what the hell does that mean?

K-Wise · 09-25-2004, 02:13 AM

The
Hate
U
Give

Little
Infants
Fucks
Everyone

Not that hard folks

I think if anyone could be called THE GREATEST of all time it could be him. I don't know if I myself think he's the greatest but he has written a lot of material asside from and part of the thug life material that is just phenominal. More so he rarely relied on punchlines or metaphores to deliver it. Those who think otherwise really have never read his work thoroughly. I'm not really talkin about the Thug shit so to speak cause I hate that myself...I'm talkin about the softer side of him...the much more deeper side. I can post lyrics later to show you. Don't get me wrong though..I can also see why people think he is overrated. Biggie is more "overrated" so to speak than he is.

Asta!!

Rdr4evr · 09-25-2004, 10:31 AM

Oh, so thats what it means. That makes it even more stupid now. It still doesn't make sense. :P

Bim · 09-25-2004, 12:03 PM

Tupac can be very inspirational at times. Alot of his songs do have very deep meanings. Something in his lyrics hit me the right way and persuaded me to go to college. He is very inspirational. I do like his more mellow songs, like, Me Against the world, Dear Mamma, Keep ya Head up, Life goes on. I do like all his music in total, just the mellow stuff i like more. It's odd at times, he either very "hard" talking about Money Over Bitches (M.O.B), Shooting you up, Thug Life stuff. Then on the other had hes has the toned down, inspirational content. So it's like what ever mood you're in. There is always a Pac song for you. TuPac is my favorite artist, i love him.

One my favorite verses :: Song - Me Against the World
With all this extra stressin
The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finaly get to rest? Through this supression
they punish the people that's askin questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possesions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even the genius asks-es questions
Be grateful for blessings
Don't ever change, keep your essence
The power is in the people and politics we address
Always do your best, don't let the pressure make you panic
And when you get stranded
And things don't go the way you planned it
Dreamin of riches, in a position of makin a difference
Politicians and hypocrites, they don't wanna listen
If I'm insane, it's the fame made a brother change
It wasn't nuttin like the game
It's just me against the world

CM Punk · 09-25-2004, 12:26 PM

tuapc2111 is stupid ayn idf you like him you are st00opid you shuyld all be shot off a canon into the sun for when tacling about him besides hess dead now anyway if yuo wantna takk about dead pewel letrs talk abitu juimmy hendricx trupac coulodl never play gutiar as good ttas hendrix he was just a poser wanna be thubg but jimmi was ther real deal he rappesd about it buty jimmi lived in jimmy hendrix was kicked out fo high school for holding a white girls hnad tyhats hardk0re jimmi hendric is hardk04ere to the co00rwe worod life word 2 yo mudda

pacaveli · 09-25-2004, 07:42 PM

note the ban, lol

i thought his stament was well educated!

Bim · 09-26-2004, 02:28 AM

I tried to read that post, but it hurt my head.

cockmonger · 09-29-2004, 04:28 PM

People who think tupac is overrated really havn't listened to tupac. I agree that the versitility of his rapping and it's presence in today's world does make him one of the greatest rappers of all time. I mean look at songs like Hit Em Up, where he just can't stop yelling and shouting and venting every ounce of his hatred, compared to Dear Mama where he can't stop rapping about his undying love for his mom even though she was a crackhead bitch. What I'm pointing at here is the same qualities you find more in music THANKS to tupac. what do you think EMO is? seriously all these whiney assholes...yeah...they're doing the same thing that tupac did (be it tupac did it sooo much better and at a different level). However, if you do love tupac you have to keep it in perspective, he's a rapper, not a poet.

K-Wise · 09-29-2004, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockmonger

However, if you do love tupac you have to keep it in perspective, he's a rapper, not a poet.

I beg to differ my friend. If you ever picked up his "The Rose The Grew From Concrete Vol. 1" cd give it another listen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupac

Artist: Tupac Shakur ~ Tre' from Pharcyde
Album: The Rose That Grew From Concrete Vol. 1 *
Song: What of a Love Unspoken
Typed by: OHHLA Webmaster DJ Flash

* Poems written by Shakur as ~ interpreted by other artists

Alright, alright {*people applauding*}

[Tre']
I know my heart has lied before
but now it speaks, with honesty
of an invisible bond of friendship, that was formed, in secrecy
Coming from me this may seem hard but, but to God I swear - it's truth
We are friends for eternity and for-ever I will always love.. you..

[sung]
What of a love unspoken?
Is it weaker without a name?
Does love exist without a title
because I do not share it's name?

[Tre']
All my life I've dreamed of
of meeting one with immense beauty and
and once I found her I would charm her and
and she'd be mine forever (mine forever)
I found her and, indeed she is all that I, wished for and more but she
is not charmed nor intrigued (not charmed, nor intrigued)
Then I think to myself what.. can I offer her
The tears warm my eyes and blur my, vision I
stick to my stance of bravado and give her
the same uninterested look that she, gave, me
(She was so beautiful) She was so beautiful
But what.. can I offer her?

You say that you'll love me forever but
but what about today?
As the dusks become the dawns and the years pass on will you
love me (love me) the same way (the same way)?
If so let us rejoice and bathe in this constant pleasure
If not spare my heart today and I shall recover before, forever
And if my doubts and questions upset you
(forgive my fragile heart) forgive my fragile heart
I just wanted to know if you'd love me forever before today,
would start (would you love me.. would you love me..)

[sung]
What of a love unspoken?
What of a love unspoken?

{*applause and shouting*}

See now that right there (especially the part I outlined in bold and larger text) is some of the deepest and most beautiful stuff I've ever heard. It is indeed poetry.

Asta!!

Bim · 09-30-2004, 01:50 AM

I picked up his book of poems, very very good stuff in there. I have to say, I think of Pac, more as a poet, then some "thug" rapper.

Quote:

Did you hear about the rose that grew
from a crack in the concrete?
Proving nature's law is wrong it
learned to walk with out having feet.
Funny it seems, but by keeping it's dreams,
it learned to breathe fresh air.
Long live the rose that grew from concrete
when no one else ever cared.

Quote:

In the event of my Demise
when my heart can beat no more
I Hope I Die For A Principle
or A Belief that I had Lived 4
I will die Before My Time
Because I feel the shadow's Depth
so much I wanted 2 accomplish
before I reached my Death
I have come 2 grips with the possibility
and wiped the last tear from My eyes
I Loved All who were Positive
In the event of my Demise

That whole book is great.

K-Wise · 09-30-2004, 02:37 AM

Yeah unfortunately the CD isn't. The poetry is great but a lot of the renditions were just...I dunno I'd go as far as to say they were horrible. But adding spoken word to a beat is difficult enough as it is.

Asta!!

omega2K4 · 09-30-2004, 11:43 AM

I like Notorious B.I.G. better. There are only a few "West-Coast" rappers, well rappers in general, I actually like, and Tupac is not one of them.

germanguy · 10-04-2004, 09:09 PM

I don't like rap music, but I listen to 2Pac. I have all his CDs, and I really believes he writes some of the most amazing lyrics. He was a damn talented guy who made incredible music.

jwoody · 10-05-2004, 05:38 AM

I have tried to listen to tupac and I really just don't get it.

*pause for thought.*

My hip-hop tastes go back to the days when an M.C. could spend an hour rapping about how great he (or she) is at rapping. This is where I get my criteria for comparing rappers against their peers.

If I were to compile a list, Tupac wouldn't be in the top 50.

Lyrics: I can't relate my life to his lyrics in any way, shape or form. 0/10.

Delivery: Compared to other M.C.s, I find his style boring and weak. It's painful. 1/10.

10-05-2004, 08:22 AM

n-a-s NAS! > 2pac, tupac, makaveli.. hehe

costello · 10-06-2004, 07:44 AM

I guess i could maybe get into tupac more if i werent so confused about him. people say that he is a versitile rapper, thats not how i see it. your mistaking versitility for hypocrisy. he's all over the place. thats just not honest to me. if i want radio rappers nas is at the top.

cockmonger · 10-07-2004, 02:29 PM

nas can't touch tupac with a ten foot stick...listen to Thug Mansion (acoustic) off Better Dayz, and you'll seee when i mean. and as far as the poet thing...yeah i forgot about the rose that grew from the concrete, Tupac was a very motivational man. He had the charisma of arnold schwarzeneggar(i think i spelled that wrong) if arnold was a harded thug. and finally about the MCs rapping about how good they are...tupac did it...only it was more like...i fucked your girl BECAUSE i'm a better MC.

Has anyone seen Biggie and Tupac the documentary? is it me or did they seem to villainize Tupac's mom? and make biggie seem like an innocent little kid. I'm not making accusations...thats just what i got from it.

alansmithee · 10-08-2004, 12:48 AM

I think his talent has been blown WAY out of proportion. Personally, there has been only a few songs of his I have liked. Honestly, if he hadn't died I don't think he would be considered as great as he is (and this goes 10x for Biggie). His songs were wildly inconsistant in quality. Plus, for someone who is getting alot of credit as a "poet" and "artist" he released too much filler on his albums. Also, any of his thug life songs seem more parody than real, almost like a cartoon. Some rappers can pull this off effectively (M.O.P), but he seemed to take himself to seriously on songs which seemed cartoonish to me. And as far as lyrically, I wouldn't put him in my top 25 (at least). Of course, this is all my opinion.

crossova · 10-08-2004, 11:21 AM

Pac is cool. i never liked him when he was alive and i never and still wont buy his music now. but i respect him for what he contributed to the genre

GTI · 10-11-2004, 04:42 AM

I won't say that Tupac is the greatest of all time but I will say that the kid was very very talented and driven. He spent vast amounts of time writing and in the studio.

dy156 · 10-11-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Punk

tuapc2111 is stupid ayn idf you like him you are st00opid you shuyld all be shot off a canon into the sun for when tacling about him besides hess dead now anyway if yuo wantna takk about dead pewel letrs talk abitu juimmy hendricx trupac coulodl never play gutiar as good ttas hendrix he was just a poser wanna be thubg but jimmi was ther real deal he rappesd about it buty jimmi lived in jimmy hendrix was kicked out fo high school for holding a white girls hnad tyhats hardk0re jimmi hendric is hardk04ere to the co00rwe worod life word 2 yo mudda

That's the most amusing post I've read in a long time.

I actually really liked tupac, though it is completely out of character for me to listen to rap. I'm probably the epitome of a nerdy white guy listening to rap. In college a friend was talking about how Tupac died, and we decided to go buy some 40's to drink in commemoration. My friend poured out the first bit on the ground. The next September, one year later, we did it againat the same house on 4th St. A tradition was started. By the end of school, (years later) the party was an institution at school. "40's on 4th Street" had hundreds of people there, and perhaps it was poetic justice for it to get broken up by the cops and us have to bail somebody out of the county jail. Every time I hear Tupac songs they bring up fond memories.

Esen · 10-11-2004, 02:46 PM

You got to give the guy credit how many times did the fucker get shot?

Man 1 bullet is enough. but he was shot on multiple occasions.
Now if that is not something to sing or rap about I don t know what is.

Also I thought he was really good in Juice.

Mos Def has that Def poets jam If you like poetry with a gut

go-bots · 10-12-2004, 08:46 PM

i think he's way over rated. his metaphors are week like turtlenecks. i feel that since he grew up around black panthers, were supposed to view him as some sort of revolutionary hiphop prophet. when in all actuality he's a hypocrite. he's supposed to be this poet who's trying to push people forward in the world but he's promoting the worst in people with all that machismo gansta bullshit.

Rdr4evr · 10-12-2004, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go-bots

i think he's way over rated. his metaphors are week like turtlenecks. i feel that since he grew up around black panthers, were supposed to view him as some sort of revolutionary hiphop prophet. when in all actuality he's a hypocrite. he's supposed to be this poet who's trying to push people forward in the world but he's promoting the worst in people with all that machismo gansta bullshit.

Exactly! Some people go as far as to say he is the black Jesus.

K-Wise · 10-13-2004, 02:33 AM

I'll have to give him another listen but to my knowledge ALL he was doing was promoting the worst in people is not what he sought out to do. You can tell that when you hear him actually speak. But of course you always have the ignorant kids who absorb what they want to and try and glorify that lifestyle. Thats why I think it's stupid whenever someone says "It's JUST music!!" cause obviously it's not. When it has gotten to the point where it actually influences the way people act on a daily basis we can no longer argue that it is JUST music because it's become more than that. I think thats why people call him a hypocrite...because he wrote music about his lifestyle and his choices and his friends choices then realized it was influencing people to do the wrong things so he switched it up and said "hey why do we hate our women?" I mean in a way thats more like admitting he was wrong and trying to redeem himself than just being hypocritcal. We all engage in some form of hypocrisy or another in our lifetimes...thats just inescapable. It's gonna happen you can count on it. I think the fact that he got so famous and has become such an icon is why people tend to look at his hypocrisy at a level higher than what we look at in ourselves. It's not though. I gotta agree that calling him the "black jesus"(though I've never personally witnessed such a reference) is taking it more than just a bit too far. I don't doubt people have rated him that high and higher.

Asta!!

rhapz · 10-13-2004, 02:09 PM

Yes im very educated on hip hop, rap, and music in general, but I honestly feel that tupac is not the greatest rapper to ever grace the mic. In my mind, that title belongs to, if anyone, Nas. Illmatic is the greatest rap cd ever made imo and I feel the songs he puts out have far greater "social and political commentary" than pac's songs. Pac in my opinion, which is very well educated, is truly overated if he is deemed no1. Yes he is in my top 5 but he is not my no1. One only needs to check out Nas' lost tapes to see the verstatilty of nasir's music and the depth within each of his songs.

K-Wise · 10-13-2004, 07:54 PM

Yeah I definitely got love for Nas. I also got madd love for Common. People don't think he packs enough consistency though. I still think he can rock with the best of em myself.

Asta!!

sinjien · 10-15-2004, 11:07 PM

The greatness of any man is measured by the legacy he leaves behind - the changes that he causes to take place even after death. That being said, name one rapper whose legacy overshadows Tupac. Biggie? Yeah fucking right. Jay-Z? Hell no. NAS you say? Please. You could combine the three and they still couldnt hold a lighter to Pac. Everyone gets so caught up with the 'thug life' topic that they fail to see that Tupac was on of the most intelligent men to ever touch a mike. Yes he talked about all the normal violent and negative topics but he wrote songs (yes songs) that genuinely moved people. Read his book. I mean really read it. Maybe then you'll see that he was so much more than "the guy who only raps about thug life". NAS said in one of his raps: "Name a rapper that i ain't influenced". He makes a very powerful point. But who were his influences. Pac was one of them. Pac has influenced every individual, not just every rapper, whose ever spoken to him, read his book, or heard his music. Now I'm not saying that he was a model citizen because he was far from it. He was a real thug. But my whole point is that he has touched more people than any 1 rapper ever.

09-24-2004, 05:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
pacaveli Psycho Location: MD	Tupac Shakur I think he is the best rapper of all time, and one of the best song writers ever. The mans lyrics could be deep, inspiring, hateful, caring, and even spirtual. anybody eles have comon veiws on him, any1 have opposing veiws on him

09-25-2004, 02:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	<b>T</b>he <b>H</b>ate <b>U</b> <b>G</b>ive <b>L</b>ittle <b>I</b>nfants <b>F</b>ucks <b>E</b>veryone Not that hard folks I think if anyone could be called THE GREATEST of all time it could be him. I don't know if I myself think he's the greatest but he has written a lot of material asside from and part of the thug life material that is just phenominal. More so he rarely relied on punchlines or metaphores to deliver it. Those who think otherwise really have never read his work thoroughly. I'm not really talkin about the Thug shit so to speak cause I hate that myself...I'm talkin about the softer side of him...the much more deeper side. I can post lyrics later to show you. Don't get me wrong though..I can also see why people think he is overrated. Biggie is more "overrated" so to speak than he is. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

09-25-2004, 12:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bim Crazy Location: Onett, EagleLand	Tupac can be very inspirational at times. Alot of his songs do have very deep meanings. Something in his lyrics hit me the right way and persuaded me to go to college. He is very inspirational. I do like his more mellow songs, like, Me Against the world, Dear Mamma, Keep ya Head up, Life goes on. I do like all his music in total, just the mellow stuff i like more. It's odd at times, he either very "hard" talking about Money Over Bitches (M.O.B), Shooting you up, Thug Life stuff. Then on the other had hes has the toned down, inspirational content. So it's like what ever mood you're in. There is always a Pac song for you. TuPac is my favorite artist, i love him. One my favorite verses :: Song - Me Against the World With all this extra stressin The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath When will I finaly get to rest? Through this supression they punish the people that's askin questions And those that possess, steal from the ones without possesions The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons Don't settle for less - even the genius asks-es questions Be grateful for blessings Don't ever change, keep your essence The power is in the people and politics we address Always do your best, don't let the pressure make you panic And when you get stranded And things don't go the way you planned it Dreamin of riches, in a position of makin a difference Politicians and hypocrites, they don't wanna listen If I'm insane, it's the fame made a brother change It wasn't nuttin like the game It's just me against the world __________________ "If you stay here too long, you'll end up frying your brain. Yes, you will. No, you will...not. Yesno, you will won't." -Guy in Moonside

09-26-2004, 02:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
Bim Crazy Location: Onett, EagleLand	I tried to read that post, but it hurt my head. __________________ "If you stay here too long, you'll end up frying your brain. Yes, you will. No, you will...not. Yesno, you will won't." -Guy in Moonside

09-29-2004, 04:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
cockmonger Insane	People who think tupac is overrated really havn't listened to tupac. I agree that the versitility of his rapping and it's presence in today's world does make him one of the greatest rappers of all time. I mean look at songs like Hit Em Up, where he just can't stop yelling and shouting and venting every ounce of his hatred, compared to Dear Mama where he can't stop rapping about his undying love for his mom even though she was a crackhead bitch. What I'm pointing at here is the same qualities you find more in music THANKS to tupac. what do you think EMO is? seriously all these whiney assholes...yeah...they're doing the same thing that tupac did (be it tupac did it sooo much better and at a different level). However, if you do love tupac you have to keep it in perspective, he's a rapper, not a poet. __________________ Lovely party Geoffery, but theres a turd in the punch bowl. -George Carlin

09-24-2004, 05:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	I think he is the most over-rated rap "artist" of all time. The man has been dead for how many years now? He is more popular in death than he ever was in life. The whole "thug life" BS got really old really fast, and it still continues to go down. I'm not saying he is a bad rapper, I'm just saying he is not as good as people make him out to be.

09-24-2004, 07:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
pacaveli Psycho Location: MD	as u may of gussed i disagree, prolly all u've really heard is the shit that gets played on the radio. When really a lot of his best stuff is on his cd's. The thug life u speak of was prolly not what u think, it's an word thing that he made up The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone

09-25-2004, 10:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	Oh, so thats what it means. That makes it even more stupid now. It still doesn't make sense. :P

09-25-2004, 12:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
CM Punk Banned	tuapc2111 is stupid ayn idf you like him you are st00opid you shuyld all be shot off a canon into the sun for when tacling about him besides hess dead now anyway if yuo wantna takk about dead pewel letrs talk abitu juimmy hendricx trupac coulodl never play gutiar as good ttas hendrix he was just a poser wanna be thubg but jimmi was ther real deal he rappesd about it buty jimmi lived in jimmy hendrix was kicked out fo high school for holding a white girls hnad tyhats hardk0re jimmi hendric is hardk04ere to the co00rwe worod life word 2 yo mudda

09-25-2004, 07:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
pacaveli Psycho Location: MD	note the ban, lol i thought his stament was well educated!

09-30-2004, 02:37 AM	#15 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	Yeah unfortunately the CD isn't. The poetry is great but a lot of the renditions were just...I dunno I'd go as far as to say they were horrible. But adding spoken word to a beat is difficult enough as it is. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

09-30-2004, 11:43 AM	#16 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	I like Notorious B.I.G. better. There are only a few "West-Coast" rappers, well rappers in general, I actually like, and Tupac is not one of them. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx Last edited by omega2K4; 09-30-2004 at 11:46 AM..

10-04-2004, 09:09 PM	#17 (permalink)
germanguy Upright	I don't like rap music, but I listen to 2Pac. I have all his CDs, and I really believes he writes some of the most amazing lyrics. He was a damn talented guy who made incredible music.

10-05-2004, 05:38 AM	#18 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	I have tried to listen to tupac and I really just don't get it. pause for thought. My hip-hop tastes go back to the days when an M.C. could spend an hour rapping about how great he (or she) is at rapping. This is where I get my criteria for comparing rappers against their peers. If I were to compile a list, Tupac wouldn't be in the top 50. Lyrics: I can't relate my life to his lyrics in any way, shape or form. 0/10. Delivery: Compared to other M.C.s, I find his style boring and weak. It's painful. 1/10.

10-05-2004, 08:22 AM	#19 (permalink)
Xepidemic Guest	n-a-s NAS! > 2pac, tupac, makaveli.. hehe

10-06-2004, 07:44 AM	#20 (permalink)
costello Insane Location: Tucson	I guess i could maybe get into tupac more if i werent so confused about him. people say that he is a versitile rapper, thats not how i see it. your mistaking versitility for hypocrisy. he's all over the place. thats just not honest to me. if i want radio rappers nas is at the top. __________________ "They don't even know what it is to be a fan. Y'know? To truly love some silly little piece of music, or some band, so much that it hurts." -Almost Famous

10-07-2004, 02:29 PM	#21 (permalink)
cockmonger Insane	nas can't touch tupac with a ten foot stick...listen to Thug Mansion (acoustic) off Better Dayz, and you'll seee when i mean. and as far as the poet thing...yeah i forgot about the rose that grew from the concrete, Tupac was a very motivational man. He had the charisma of arnold schwarzeneggar(i think i spelled that wrong) if arnold was a harded thug. and finally about the MCs rapping about how good they are...tupac did it...only it was more like...i fucked your girl BECAUSE i'm a better MC. Has anyone seen Biggie and Tupac the documentary? is it me or did they seem to villainize Tupac's mom? and make biggie seem like an innocent little kid. I'm not making accusations...thats just what i got from it. __________________ Lovely party Geoffery, but theres a turd in the punch bowl. -George Carlin

10-08-2004, 12:48 AM	#22 (permalink)
alansmithee Junkie	I think his talent has been blown WAY out of proportion. Personally, there has been only a few songs of his I have liked. Honestly, if he hadn't died I don't think he would be considered as great as he is (and this goes 10x for Biggie). His songs were wildly inconsistant in quality. Plus, for someone who is getting alot of credit as a "poet" and "artist" he released too much filler on his albums. Also, any of his thug life songs seem more parody than real, almost like a cartoon. Some rappers can pull this off effectively (M.O.P), but he seemed to take himself to seriously on songs which seemed cartoonish to me. And as far as lyrically, I wouldn't put him in my top 25 (at least). Of course, this is all my opinion.

10-08-2004, 11:21 AM	#23 (permalink)
crossova Psycho Location: new york	Pac is cool. i never liked him when he was alive and i never and still wont buy his music now. but i respect him for what he contributed to the genre

10-11-2004, 04:42 AM	#24 (permalink)
GTI Upright	I won't say that Tupac is the greatest of all time but I will say that the kid was very very talented and driven. He spent vast amounts of time writing and in the studio.

10-11-2004, 02:46 PM	#26 (permalink)
Esen TFPer formaly known as Chauncey Location: North East	You got to give the guy credit how many times did the fucker get shot? Man 1 bullet is enough. but he was shot on multiple occasions. Now if that is not something to sing or rap about I don t know what is. Also I thought he was really good in Juice. Mos Def has that Def poets jam If you like poetry with a gut __________________ ~Esen What is everyone doing in my room?

10-12-2004, 08:46 PM	#27 (permalink)
go-bots Upright	i think he's way over rated. his metaphors are week like turtlenecks. i feel that since he grew up around black panthers, were supposed to view him as some sort of revolutionary hiphop prophet. when in all actuality he's a hypocrite. he's supposed to be this poet who's trying to push people forward in the world but he's promoting the worst in people with all that machismo gansta bullshit.

10-13-2004, 02:33 AM	#29 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	I'll have to give him another listen but to my knowledge ALL he was doing was promoting the worst in people is not what he sought out to do. You can tell that when you hear him actually speak. But of course you always have the ignorant kids who absorb what they want to and try and glorify that lifestyle. Thats why I think it's stupid whenever someone says "It's JUST music!!" cause obviously it's not. When it has gotten to the point where it actually influences the way people act on a daily basis we can no longer argue that it is JUST music because it's become more than that. I think thats why people call him a hypocrite...because he wrote music about his lifestyle and his choices and his friends choices then realized it was influencing people to do the wrong things so he switched it up and said "hey why do we hate our women?" I mean in a way thats more like admitting he was wrong and trying to redeem himself than just being hypocritcal. We all engage in some form of hypocrisy or another in our lifetimes...thats just inescapable. It's gonna happen you can count on it. I think the fact that he got so famous and has become such an icon is why people tend to look at his hypocrisy at a level higher than what we look at in ourselves. It's not though. I gotta agree that calling him the "black jesus"(though I've never personally witnessed such a reference) is taking it more than just a bit too far. I don't doubt people have rated him that high and higher. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

10-13-2004, 02:09 PM	#30 (permalink)
rhapz Upright Location: Houston	Yes im very educated on hip hop, rap, and music in general, but I honestly feel that tupac is not the greatest rapper to ever grace the mic. In my mind, that title belongs to, if anyone, Nas. Illmatic is the greatest rap cd ever made imo and I feel the songs he puts out have far greater "social and political commentary" than pac's songs. Pac in my opinion, which is very well educated, is truly overated if he is deemed no1. Yes he is in my top 5 but he is not my no1. One only needs to check out Nas' lost tapes to see the verstatilty of nasir's music and the depth within each of his songs. __________________ yo rhapz is kickin it.wit lyrical hits.that'll take it right.up in yo sophagus.whats realer than this.as I.lace ya with some bis.mixed with some 'kiss.rappin down the way.with a lovely nade.runnin the block.with my 6 inch glock.eh what ya say."ay'one be rappin that shit all day?".I make beats.dont lace beats.as ya can see.with ya own optical imagery.hehe keystyles are fun

10-13-2004, 07:54 PM	#31 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	Yeah I definitely got love for Nas. I also got madd love for Common. People don't think he packs enough consistency though. I still think he can rock with the best of em myself. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

10-15-2004, 11:07 PM	#32 (permalink)
sinjien Tilted Location: the back of a giant turtle	The greatness of any man is measured by the legacy he leaves behind - the changes that he causes to take place even after death. That being said, name one rapper whose legacy overshadows Tupac. Biggie? Yeah fucking right. Jay-Z? Hell no. NAS you say? Please. You could combine the three and they still couldnt hold a lighter to Pac. Everyone gets so caught up with the 'thug life' topic that they fail to see that Tupac was on of the most intelligent men to ever touch a mike. Yes he talked about all the normal violent and negative topics but he wrote songs (yes songs) that genuinely moved people. Read his book. I mean really read it. Maybe then you'll see that he was so much more than "the guy who only raps about thug life". NAS said in one of his raps: "Name a rapper that i ain't influenced". He makes a very powerful point. But who were his influences. Pac was one of them. Pac has influenced every individual, not just every rapper, whose ever spoken to him, read his book, or heard his music. Now I'm not saying that he was a model citizen because he was far from it. He was a real thug. But my whole point is that he has touched more people than any 1 rapper ever. Last edited by sinjien; 10-15-2004 at 11:10 PM..