classic rock: a comprehensive listing

[Sion]

Ok gang, I'd like your help. I want to put together a comprehensive list of all the "classic rock" bands/artists, for the purpose of filling out my mp3 collection, which has become woefully inadequate to me recently. I have around 500 songs in my collection (plus about 100 cds) and I find that I dont have enough variety. I tend to go on kicks where I'll d/l a bunch of songs by a particular band/artist, so as a result, I have 500 songs by maybe 50 artists. But whenever I try to rack my memory banks for other bands, I get brainlock and cant come up with anything but the obvious bands that I already know I love and have lots of.

So lets try to list all the "classic rock" bands.



I'll start with a list of what I consider the most important classic rock acts of all time. This will serve two purposes. First, I will get a significant portion of the obvious ones out of the way. Second, it will give, for those who may be unsure, a good idea of what I consider classic rock.

a vague definition of classic rock (as I see it): anything in the rock genre recorded between 1960 and 1990, or by bands that had the majority of their success in that 30 year period. classic rock also tends to be guitar (especially, but not strictly limited to, electric guitar) oriented.

the short list, in no particular order:

The Beatles
The Stones
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
The Who
Pink Floyd
Aerosmith
Queen
Genesis
Cream/Clapton
AC/DC
Boston
The Police
Ted Nugent
Rush
Yes
The Allman Brothers
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Van Halen
Black Sabbath
Deep Purple
Kiss
CCR
Alice Cooper
Crosby, Stills, and Nash (and Young)
Steely Dan


note: there are lots of artists/bands that fit the vague definition above (ie rock genre from 1960-90) that I do NOT consider "classic rock" such as Poison, Bon Jovi, Cinderella, etc. There are even some classic rock stations that play these bands (and others like them). The difference, as I see it is that bands such as these, though they may have a decent song or three, are fluff compared to heavyweights above. Im talking not only about musical chops, but also songwriting skills, a sound all their own, and originality.

so, who else can we add to the list? I'd like to see this get to at least 200 bands, if we can.

[present_future]

Lynrd Skynrd
The Steve Miller Band

[Jadey]

Some very notable ommissions there. But you probably left some off to urge the participation

The Doors
SANTANA!
Grateful Dead
Heart
Edgar Winter
Foghat
Cheap Trick
ZZ Top
The Doobie Brothers
Dire Straits
Three Dog Night
Bad Company
Ted Nugent
BTO
Joe Walsh
TRaffic
Tom Petty
Fleetwood Mac
Bruce Springsteen
Blue Oyster Cult
Moody Blues


I'm sure there are more. Come on people.

[irseg]

Those are both good lists, but they have a few MAJOR omissions:

Jethro Tull
Supertramp
David Bowie
Elton John
Emerson Lake & Palmer

[pan6467]

Ok I'm pissed.

Emerson Lake and Plamer?
SuperTramp?

Among others and NOT 1 Person mentions the greatest R&R band ever?????

The KINKS

Then also needed on the list of a true Classic rocker:
Meatloaf
The Beach Boys
Simon and Garfunkel (more folkish rock)
Mamas and the Papas
The Yardbirds
The Byrds
The Hollies
Rod Stewart
Paul McCartney/ Wings
John Lennon
George Harrison
The Traveling Wilburys
Guns and Roses
.38 Special
William Martin Joel (AKA Billy)
Neil Young
Eric Burdon and the Animals
The Ramones
Blondie
Berlin
Zappa
Jefferson Airplane/ Starship
America
The Guess Who
Berlin
Pat Benatar
Joan Jett
Def Leppard
The Scorpions (big cult following and HUGE in their native Europe)
Journey
Styx
Kansas
Jan and Dean
ELO
Ozzy
Motorhead
King Crimson
War
Billy Idol

Early greats:

Chuck Berry
Little Richard
George Thorogood (I know later but much of his stuff is his artistic coverage of Berry/ Richard/ some Hank Sr. turned rock etc.)
Jerry Lee Lewis
Roy Orbison

Motown greats (of course some classify it as R&B but they were considered and played as Rock in the day):

The Temptations
Marvin Gaye
The Supremes
Smoky Robinson
Phil Specter's Wall of Sound
The Commodores/ Lionel Ritchie
James Brown

[pan6467]

Oh yeah and

Jackson 5
Micheal Jackson
Stevie Wonder
Da Freak himself, Rick James

[K-Wise]

Rainbow
Uriah Heep
Spirit
Jeff Beck
The Black Crowes
James Gang
Bob Welch
Tod Rundgren
Gordon Lightfoot
Nazareth
Thin Lizzy
Wings
Robin Trower
The Clash
Janis Joplin
Ry Cooder
The Eagles
The Alan Parsons Project
Triumph
Sammy Hagar
Grand Funk Railroad
Toto
Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band
In Living Coloure
Wilson Pickett
Mountain
Whitesnake
Dio
Buffalo Springfield
Billy Squier
Free
Queensryche
Cheap Trick
Peter Frampton
The MC5
New York Dolls
Steve Vai
Jeff Healey
Joe Cocker
Foreigner
Badfinger
Bread
Chicago
The Cult
Bo Diddley
Iggy Pop & The Stooges

Fuck I'm totally lost now....can't think of anymore but I'll remember some more by tommorow this afternoon.

Asta!!

[redarrow]

Hm. I think you need to respecify what is classic rock.
Id try from 1950-1975. I mean, whens the last time youve heard something from 1989 classified as Classic Rock?
Plus most radio stations do hits from the 00's, 90's, and 80's, and call them the Latest Hits of Today.


Iron Maiden
Ringo Starrs All Starr band.
Red Hot Chili Peppers

damnit cant think of anymore

[Derwood]

I define Classic Rock as the time period between "Meet the Beatles" and Zeppelin's "Coda" (roughly 1962/63 to 1980). Plus, there has to be a certain sound to it.

I would not put these bands in Classic Rock:

AC/DC
The Police
Chili Peppers
Iron Maiden
Sabbath
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Jackson 5
Stevie Wonder
Ramones
Motorhead

I'm going by the radio definition of the genre here.

Some missing:

King Crimson
Mott the Hoople
Alan Parsons Project

[pan6467]

I had King Crimson listed. I also listed Jackson 5, the Ramones, Motorhead, and Stevie Wonder.....lol

It all depends on who you are, where and when you were raised. I think everyone has a different opinion of what Classic Rock is.

I mean CR stations around here play G-N-R, AC/DC, the Ramones and such, but play very little if any Motown. Yet Motown (as a label and sound under Barry Gordy) outsold every other label (except Capitol, I think) in the 60's and was very much considered R&R.

So it all depends on who you ask because everyone has a different taste and belief, that's what makes music probably the greatest of all the arts, yet the hardest to classify, because you can have so many different sounds and each sound evokes differing emotions and opinions from each individual.

You can subset Classic Rock into groups also like: Hard/Heavy Metal (BOC, AC/DC), Punk (Ramones, Sex Pistols), Motown (because again it had it's own sound), California Surf (Beach Boys, Jan and Dean), Folk (Simon and Garfunkel, Mamas and The Papas), Pop (Billy Joel, Elton John), Brit Invasion (KINKS, the Who), Southern (Skynard, .38 Special), Blues/Orchestral (Floyd, Moody Blues) and Soft/R&B .... all depends. I went by the first list (which seemed to include all the subsets) in my choices. Some group all the subsets in under Classic Rock others choose what groups they think belong.

In my opinion, if they were around for any length of time, had good selling albums, can be considered for or are in the R&R HOF and had a distinct sound then they are classic rock to me. But That's just me, and I think the KINKS are the greatest band ever so that right there tells ya how nuts I am.

[Bobaphat]

Marshal Tucker Band
the Band
The Guess Who?
Poco

[GuttersnipeXL]

Head East
Ten Years After
Traffic
Cactus
Spirit

[anleja]

Big Star (badly underrated band)

[K-Wise]

<font size=5><i>I got a liiiiiiiiiine oon yooooou!!!</i></font>

<font size=5><i>(I got a line, a line on you)</i></font>

Asta!!

[Tophat665]

We've got Sabbath, B&Ouml;C, Rush, Tull, Crimson. Yeah, and in all the british guys and that about sums it up.

[Tusko]

humble pie
the small faces
the yardbirds
the pretty things
free
bad company
the herd
electric flag

[Sion]

Originally posted by pan6467
I mean CR stations around here play G-N-R, AC/DC, the Ramones and such, but play very little if any Motown. Yet Motown (as a label and sound under Barry Gordy) outsold every other label (except Capitol, I think) in the 60's and was very much considered R&R.

pan, I've got to disagree with you there. While there was some small amount of music put out by Motown that could be considered rock and roll, most of it was firmly soul, gospel and R&B (rhythm and blues) genres. Of course, in the very early days of R&R, the genre had yet to become fully defined in any real sense, which means that just about anything that was (generally) upbeat and was popular with the kids was considered rocknroll. Case in point, the girl groups of the late 50s and early 60s (ie The Supremes, The Shirelles, etc).

And that is why I included in my initial post the characteristic that rock music (and in particular the genre called "classic" rock) tends to be driven primarily by the guitar (especially the electric version), which is not a characteristic of Motowns at all. Motown was all about the voice(s), and to a lesser extent, the groove. Motown's artists were always great singers, first and foremost. And the music that they recorded (generally written by in house writers as opposed to the artists themeselves) were often little more than vehicles to show off that singing talent. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. There's a lot of Motown stuff that I thoroughly enjoy. I just dont think it quite qualifies as classic rock.

[Sion]

Originally posted by Jadey
Some very notable ommissions there. But you probably left some off to urge the participation

yer pretty smart, Jadey

[Sion]

Ok, to keep repeats to a bare minimum, I'll be updating the official LIST from time to time, as new suggestions warrant. I've taken the time to alphabetize it for easy reference. I've also added a number of my own suggestions, as well as removing a few that don't, IMHO, quite fit. These are included as appendices at the end of the LIST. If one of your suggestions is included there, please don't be offended, or think that I don't consider that artist's contribution to the music world valid or valuable. Just understand that I don't consider them to quite fit the criteria. The fact is that some of these few (roughly a dozen or so) are in fact good bands that I enjoy. That doesn't make them classic rock.

Remember, as initiator of this thread, I will be the final arbitor of what does or does not make the list. Thanks for your contributions.

Final Note: we've got about 170 or so names here. That's pretty good, but I think if we all rack our brains enough, we can push that number over 200 (300?). So keep those suggestions coming in, please. Thanks.


The LIST

----------Numeric

.38 Special

----------A

AC/DC

Aerosmith

The Alan Parsons Project

Alice Cooper

Alice In Chains

Greg Allman

The Allman Brothers

The Animals

Asia

----------B

Bachman Turner Overdrive (BTO)

Bad Company

Badfinger

The Band

The Beatles

Jeff Beck

Pat Benatar

The Black Crowes

Black Sabbath

Blondie

Blood, Sweat & Tears

Blue Oyster Cult

Blues Image

Boston

David Bowie

Buffalo Springfield

Eric Burdon

The Byrds

----------C

The Cars

Eric Clapton

Cheap Trick

Chicago

The Clash

Tom Cochrane

Joe Cocker

Phil Collins

Cream

Creedence Clearwater Revival (CCR)

Crosby, Stills, and Nash (and Young) (CSN/Y)

The Cult

----------D

Roger Daltry

Deep Purple

Def Leppard

Derek and the Domino's

Rick Derringer

Devo

Dio

Dire Straits

The Doobie Brothers

The Doors

Dream Theater

Dr. John

----------E

The Eagles

The Electric Light Orchestra (ELO)

Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP)

Eurythmics

----------F

Faces (aka The Small Faces)

Fleetwood Mac

Foreigner

Peter Frampton

Free

Foghat

----------G

Peter Gabriel

Genesis

Glen Frye

Golden Earring

Grand Funk Railroad

The Grateful Dead

The Guess Who

Guns 'n' Roses

----------H

Sammy Hagar

George Harrison

Head East

Jeff Healey

Heart

Don Henley

Jimi Hendrix

The Herd

The Hollies

Humble Pie

----------I

Billy Idol

INXS

Donnie Iris (& The Cruisers)

Iron Maiden

----------J

The James Gang

Janis Joplin (& Big Brother & The Holding Company)

Jefferson Airplane/ Starship

Jethro Tull

Joan Jett (& The Blackhearts)

The J. Geils Band

Billy Joel

Elton John

Eric Johnson

Journey

----------K

Kansas

King Crimson

The Kinks

Kiss

The Knack

Lenny Kravitz

----------L

Led Zeppelin

John Lennon

Gordon Lightfoot

Living Color

Lynrd Skynrd

----------M

Manfred Mann's Earth Band

The Marshal Tucker Band

Paul McCartney

Meatloaf

Metallica

The MC5

The Steve Miller Band

Montrose

The Moody Blues

Mott the Hoople

Mountain

----------N

Nazareth

The Nazz

Stevie Nicks

Ted Nugent

----------O

Ozzy Osborne

----------P

Jimmy Page

Graham Parker (& The Rumor)

Robert Plant

Tom Petty (& The Heartbreakers)

Pink Floyd

The Police

The Pretenders

The Pretty Things

Prince (Purple Rain album only)

----------Q

Queen

Queensryche

----------R

Rainbow

The Ramones

Red Ryder

REO Speedwagon

Paul Rodgers

The Rolling Stones

David Lee Roth

Todd Rundgren

Rush

----------S

Santana

Joe Satriani

The Scorpions

Bob Seger (& The Silver Bullet Band)

Simon and Garfunkel

Patti Smith

Spirit

Bruce Springsteen (& The E Street Band)

Billy Squier

Ringo Starr (& his All Starr Band)

Steely Dan

Rod Stewart

Sting

Styx

Supertramp

Sweet

----------T

Ten Years After

Tesla

Thin Lizzy

Three Dog Night

Toto

Pete Townshend

Traffic

The Traveling Wilburys

T. Rex

The Troggs

Triumph

Robin Trower

----------U

U2

Uriah Heep

Utopia

----------V

Steve Vai

Van Halen

Van Morrison

Stevie Ray Vaughn

----------W

Joe Walsh

War

Roger Waters

Bob Welch

Whitesnake

The Who

Wings

Edgar Winter

Peter Wolf

----------X

XTC

----------Y

The Yardbirds

Yes

Neil Young

----------Z

Frank Zappa (& The Mothers Of Invention)

ZZ Top

----------
The sort-of-but-not-quite classic rock list:

America
Bread
The Beach Boys
Bo Diddley
Ry Cooder
Jan and Dean
The Mamas and the Papas
Poco
Wilson Pickett

----------
The thrown-out-entirely list (and the reason why):

Berlin (too pop, not a rock band in any sense)
Cactus (too obscure)
Electric Flag (too obscure)
Iggy Pop & The Stooges (too punk)
Motorhead (too hardcore/metal)
New York Dolls (too punk)
Red Hot Chili Peppers (too funk)

[Tusko]

gentle giant
the amboy dukes

[pan6467]

Originally posted by Sion
pan, I've got to disagree with you there. While there was some small amount of music put out by Motown that could be considered rock and roll, most of it was firmly soul, gospel and R&B (rhythm and blues) genres. Of course, in the very early days of R&R, the genre had yet to become fully defined in any real sense, which means that just about anything that was (generally) upbeat and was popular with the kids was considered rocknroll. Case in point, the girl groups of the late 50s and early 60s (ie The Supremes, The Shirelles, etc).

And that is why I included in my initial post the characteristic that rock music (and in particular the genre called "classic" rock) tends to be driven primarily by the guitar (especially the electric version), which is not a characteristic of Motowns at all. Motown was all about the voice(s), and to a lesser extent, the groove. Motown's artists were always great singers, first and foremost. And the music that they recorded (generally written by in house writers as opposed to the artists themeselves) were often little more than vehicles to show off that singing talent. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. There's a lot of Motown stuff that I thoroughly enjoy. I just dont think it quite qualifies as classic rock.

Good points, well argued and fact driven. You need to come to politics....lol we could use a man like you.

[roachboy]

this motown exclusion seems arbitrary to me.
i understand the argument, but think you underestimate both how good the rhythm sections were and how important they have turned out to be. this is even more a problem if you think about stax recordings.

if you are going to apply those criteria to motown, then you probably need to delete war from your list as well.

and i do not have any idea how you would defend not including curtis mayfield.

and maybe there is an alternate universe in which journey, toto and edgar winter are more classic anything than james brown, but i do not know that construct and i am not sure i would want to be there.

blood sweat and tears was primarily about the horn charts and david clayton thomas's voice...devo was primiarily a synth band, if i remember...did supertramp even use guitars? i remember mostly fender rhodes and whiny vocals.

if the stooges are too punk, then what is the mc5 still doing on the list? on this, i am just a bit pained, personally. the stooges were among my favorites in the early 1970s--they explain singlehandedly why i thought punk was not a big deal.

why is the only blues player on this whole list a white guy? there would have been no 60s "classic rock" had it not been for the systemiatic plundering of the electric blues--howling wolf, albert king, muddy waters, t-bone walker etc etc etc....

no velvet underground? but you include the knack?

how is roger waters solo work classic anything at all?

you stick the beach boys and bo diddley on the same almost ran list as dreck like america and bread? have you listened to any of these bands?

WHERE IS CAPTAIN BEEFHEART?

geez.

[roachboy]

and where is early-to-mid 1970s miles davis?

ok i obviously do not understand this list thing.

[KWSN]

Judas Preist, Jackson Browne, Foriegner

[Tusko]

"blood sweat and tears was primarily about the horn charts and david clayton thomas's voice...devo was primiarily a synth band, if i remember...did supertramp even use guitars? i remember mostly fender rhodes and whiny vocals."


what about "Bloody well right", great stuff right there

I'd incluce blood sweat and tears, some really good stuff there...


April Wine
atlanta rhythm section
Focus
10cc
the sweet
blue cheer
black oaks arkansas
canned heat
Chilliwack
Creation (used the violin bow before jimmy page)
country joe and the fish
hot tuna
Elo
Dr John
Grand Funk Railroad
James Gang
Joe Walsh
Ten Years After
Electric Prunes
Strawberry alarm clock
Chocolate watch band
13th floor elevators
Triumph
Johhny/Edgar Winter
Pat Travers
Kim Mitchell/Max Webster
Lighthouse
Steve Miller Band
Little Feat
Vanilla Fudge
Moby Grape
Rick Derringer
Bachman Turner Overdrive
Rainbow
John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers
Paul Butterfield Blues Band


sorry if some of those are one hit wonders, or 'obscure', or repeats....

[roachboy]

rune--you're right--i forgot about the first album, for some reason. so there is a guitar in some supertramp song, and one of their better ones no less--so erase them from the question list....
the criteria for inclusion on the list laid out above was guitar driven, and apparently played for the most part by white men.
it is a shame, the way this "classic rock" category was defined since the rise of formatted radio (early 1970s in its current form)---most of the music from the 1960s occurred in dialogues that crossed racial and stylistic boundaires--apparently it doesnt any more.

maybe that an important reason why the form is dead.

[K-Wise]

Forgot a few how about these?

UFO
Zebra
John Spencer Blues Explosion
Kings X (not sure if they're old enough but still pretty good)
Mark Knopfler
Saga (lotta keyboards though)
Starcastle (sound a lot like Yes)
The Firm (I think Page[or someone who looked like him] played for these guys for a little while)
Cruzados (If you like a lil bit a latin rock)
The Fabulous Thunderbirds (mostly their older stuff though. Some of the 80's stuff was pretty good but he started sounding a little too much like Tom Jones)
Asia

Hmm little blank now but I'll think of more later.

Asta!!

[Sion]

roachboy, before I address your concerns point by point, I wish to make a few general comments. you are obviously passionate about music, and not just the current crop of top-40 stuff that will be forgotten in a few months time. I see that you appreciate the importance of what has gone before, as it relates to what is made today. And that's great. I wish more people had your zest for music. But I think you overlooked my comments that preceded the list. To wit:

"I've also added a number of my own suggestions, as well as removing a few that don't, IMHO, quite fit. These are included as appendices at the end of the LIST. If one of your suggestions is included there, please don't be offended, or think that I don't consider that artist's contribution to the music world valid or valuable. Just understand that I don't consider them to quite fit the criteria. The fact is that some of these few (roughly a dozen or so) are in fact good bands that I enjoy. That doesn't make them classic rock.

Remember, as initiator of this thread, I will be the final arbitor of what does or does not make the list."

Also, please remember that the basis for my defintion/criteria of "classic rock" is the rather generic formula that is in use by mainstream radio. If you think my list is too small, you should listen to one of ClearChannel's "classic rock" stations. I think you'd find that 30% of what is on the above list is NEVER played on these stations. Their definition is so narrow that it starts with 1967 and ends with 1985. And of course, there are other stations that consider anything older than 10 years "classic rock".

I tried to give some very basic and general guidelines that would be neither too inclusive nor too exclusive. And in point of fact, if you think about it, as the list grows, it will, of neccesity include a wider range of styles.

ok, on to your comments. my responses are enclosed by the {} brackets.

Originally posted by roachboy
this motown exclusion seems arbitrary to me.

{It is arbitrary. And I am that arbitor.}

i understand the argument, but think you underestimate both how good the rhythm sections were and how important they have turned out to be. this is even more a problem if you think about stax recordings.

{Actually, I do NOT underestimate anything about Motown. I LOVE a ton of that stuff. And yes, the rhythm sections on most of those records were great. But again, it comes back to the nature of the work: ie that most of the stuff was written by in-house writers, produced by a small number of in-house producers, with the backing music typically performed by some permutation of the house band (typically, whoever was available of some 2 or 3 dozen session musicians, or at the discretion of the producer if he was trying to capture a specific sound that he knew only a certain player could produce. Phil Spectre was notorious for this). And while a lot of really great music came out of that hit-factory, none of it really fits the defintion of "rock music", classic or otherwise. For me, the genre of "rock" music means more than just the obvious stylistic components (guitar driven, blues based) and instrumentation (typically a guitar, a bass, drums, vocals and perhaps a keyboard). I also include as part of the defintion the idea that the band/artist writes the majority of its own music. Call it a criteria of self-sufficiency}

if you are going to apply those criteria to motown, then you probably need to delete war from your list as well.

{Perhaps, except that War fits my defintion of a rock band in that they wrote and performed their own stuff.}

and i do not have any idea how you would defend not including curtis mayfield.

{no one suggested him. its really that simple. remember the reason for this thread in the first place, that I wanted some help. If I could have thought of every "classic rock" artist off the top of my head, I would never have started the thread to begin with. Also, this is a WORK IN PROGRESS. That means it aint finished yet. If you think a band or artist should be on this list, then make the suggestion. I'll consider it and add to the list as I see fit.}

and maybe there is an alternate universe in which journey, toto and edgar winter are more classic anything than james brown, but i do not know that construct and i am not sure i would want to be there.

{again, I think you are misinterpreting the term. James Brown IS a classic artist. But he is an R&B artist, not a rock artist.}

blood sweat and tears was primarily about the horn charts and david clayton thomas's voice...devo was primiarily a synth band, if i remember...did supertramp even use guitars? i remember mostly fender rhodes and whiny vocals.

{all three of the bands you mention here used guitars in most of their work. was their music strictly guitar-driven (as suggested in my intial criteria)? no, not by any means. But there are a number of other artists on that list about which you could say the same thing. Crosby, Stills and Nash (and Young), for example. Most of their work features acoustic guitars, but the main focus is their lyrics and their voices. But there is no denying the CSN(&Y) belong on ANY list of "classic rock" artists. In the end, it comes down to having to draw a line somewhere. Without that line, it would merely be a list of all bands/artists from any generation, it would go on for pages and pages and wouldnt really have any point. I understand that not everyone will agree with where I draw the line, but thats OK. Here at the TFP, we agree to disagree with each other without getting upset that others have opinions that differ from our own.}

if the stooges are too punk, then what is the mc5 still doing on the list? on this, i am just a bit pained, personally. the stooges were among my favorites in the early 1970s--they explain singlehandedly why i thought punk was not a big deal.

{primarily, when deciding whether to include a punk (or new wave, or folk, or metal, or etc) band on this list, I look at whether the artist in question has cross-genre appeal/success. In that respect, Iggy & the Stooges falls short. Their fans are only people who like punk music. Whereas a band like The Clash, surely as big a punk icon as Iggy Pop, did have that cross-over appeal to the more general rock audience. MC5 also had some of that, although to a much lesser extent than The Clash.}

why is the only blues player on this whole list a white guy?

{look again. there is more than one blues player here. as for the fact that SRV was white, why does that even matter? He was one of the greatest blues guitarists EVER. While it may be true that the blues originated from people of color, that does not mean that only those people can play it, or be great at it.}

there would have been no 60s "classic rock" had it not been for the systemiatic plundering of the electric blues--howling wolf, albert king, muddy waters, t-bone walker etc etc etc....

{you are absolutely right in pointing out the influence of these guys on the "classic rock" genre. rocknroll IS the bastard son of the blues. of that there is no doubt. but the difference is that those guys were blues men and blues men only. whereas Led Zeppelin, The Stones, The Who, etc, etc, even SRV to some extent, included rock elements in their music. Sure, they played the blues, but they played it as filtered through a rock sensibility. also, those who rail against bands like Zeppelin for "plundering" the work of those who came before them have obviously missed a very important point about music. And that point is that EVERYONE "steals" from their predecessors. That is the nature of music, and of art in general. None of this stuff exists in a vacuum, wherein all work comes solely and completely from nothing. Art, music, language, science, philosophy, etc, these are all living forms of expression. That means that anyone working in these fields builds upon the work of those who preceeded them. Now sure, there are cases (Led Zeppelin is an easy example, but there are others) where a band reworked a song by a previous artist but failed to credit the original songwriter. But those cases are fairly few and far between, and in some cases, the reworked version is SO different from the original as to constitute a new song. That does not excuse them for failing to give credit where due. However, I submit that this whole issue is a case of making mountains out of molehills. These bands never hid their influences, and if you read enough interviews and articles contemporary to when this music came out, you'll see them mention Willie Dixon and Robert Johnson and Muddy Waters and whoever else as their influences, as people whom they consider true greats. And in that respect, I think the free advertising they gave some of these old blues masters makes up for whatever "stealing" they may have done. You'll also notice there has been almost nothing in the way of litigious activity from the blues masters towards their blues-rock progeny. I've read more than one interview wherein some of these old greats were flattered that their stuff was being covered/stolen by these rock bands. An overblown issue, in my book.}

no velvet underground? but you include the knack?

{I fail to see the connection between VU and the Knack. The Knack were a rock band, plain and simple, and had a couple/three good songs in their brief career. VU was an avant-garde jazz/rock/folk/punk/experimental-whatever-you-want-to-call-them. Also, as mentioned above, re Curtis Mayfield, NO ONE suggested them.}

how is roger waters solo work classic anything at all?

{Roger Waters solo work is much the same (stylistically and thematically) as any of Pink Floyd's group work, primarily their most well-known stuff (The Wall, Dark Side, Animals, Meddle, The Final Cut) which was all driven primarily by Waters. I dont want to get into the whole Waters vs Gilmour debate, but there is little doubt that in the 70s, Waters was the primary musical force in Pink Floyd, in that he wrote most of the songs. Given this, his inclusion as a solo artist makes sense. You could argue the same point about Ringo Starr's inclusion as a solo artist, or David Lee Roth. In the end, I made a choice, and as I happen to like Roger Waters' solo work, he stays. Sorry if you dont agree.}

you stick the beach boys and bo diddley on the same almost ran list as dreck like america and bread? have you listened to any of these bands?

{Yes, as a matter of fact, I have. All four of those bands/artists made some music that I like. I just dont happen to consider any of them classic rock. However, remember that these were suggestions by others participating in the thread. The fact that they were all on the same list means nothing in terms of whether any of them have a commonality of ability or value. Again, I made a choice. These names were suggested and I considered that they sort-of fit the criteria, but not enough to make the list, IMHO. Other than that, they have nothing in common.}


WHERE IS CAPTAIN BEEFHEART?

{Trout Mask Replica is a wonderful piece of aural art. But it aint classic rock. See my VU comment above.}


geez.

{geez indeed. calm down son. its just a list. MY list. not something to get upset over.]

and where is early-to-mid 1970s miles davis?

{Miles Davis is a fantastic JAZZ musican, not a classic rocker."

ok i obviously do not understand this list thing.

the criteria for inclusion on the list laid out above was guitar driven, and apparently played for the most part by white men.
it is a shame, the way this "classic rock" category was defined since the rise of formatted radio (early 1970s in its current form)---most of the music from the 1960s occurred in dialogues that crossed racial and stylistic boundaires--apparently it doesnt any more.

{as I mentioned above, I see no reason why race has anything to do with any of this. I will NOT be including any artist on this list for reasons of race alone. Nor will any be excluded on the same basis. If a given band made music that is, in my opinion, classic rock, then it matters not one bit to me if the musicians therein were black, white, red, purple, green or pink. If I gave even two shits about race, then the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Prince, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Living Color, etc, would not be on the list. But they are, because they did. To me, their ethnic heritage is of no more consequence than the color of their eyes, or their shoes sizes.

you are right, however, when you noted that music in the 60s and 70's "occurred in dialogues that crossed racial and stylistic boundaires" as opposed to today's formulaic mainstream radio. the rise of corporate control of radio has caused a certain staleness of content to radio today. But I think you have misjudged when this ocurred. Corporate radio didnt really get going strong until the late 80's.}

maybe that an important reason why the form is dead.

{I think this last comment really misses the point. "Classic rock" is an after-the-fact genre. MUCH after the fact. When Zep, or the Stones, or Van Halen, or any of these bands, really, were recording, they were not trying to be classic rock bands. They were trying to be rock bands. The "classic" designation came much later down the road (I think I first heard the label in the mid 90s). It came not from the musicians themeselves, but rather from someone trying to come up with a name for a loose assemblage of bands and artists that had in common only that they made "rock" music and that said music had been recorded in the period of roughly 1960-90 As such, "classic rock" is not a form that is now dead, because it was never alive in the first place. Rock (or if you prefer, rocknroll) however, is very much alive, just as jazz, the blues, gospel, rap, hip-hop, country, etc are all very much still alive.}

[Sion]

keep those suggestions coming in folks. I'll be updating the list sometime over the weekend.

[roachboy]

sion:
thanks for the responses.
i was in fact relatively calm when i wrote that (to my surprise) but this is interesting, and i want to read it over again when i have had more coffee.

[roachboy]

later in the day, after coffee, before i have to face the outside world...

first, let me say that when i read through my own post a snippiness came through that was not at all what i was feeling as i was writing it--for that, well, i dunno--email is funny and sometimes it slides away from how you actually talk even as you treat it as though it was talking. anyway, such snippiness as was conveyed was a function of the writing itself. (except maybe about captain beefheart).

second, i did blur your list in with the classic rock format--the latter i really dislike, and i do think it a non-trivial explanation for the death of the form.

btw, the guy whose brainchild format radio was is lee abrams--i think the splitting took hold in different makrets at different times--i remember it going on in boston in the early 1970s, first by the recognition that fm was a commerically viable radio band, then by the transformation of what were more free-form stations into tightly formatted ones--wbcn in particular i remember because they WOULD play captain beefheart and the byrds and country joe and the fish and "help i'm a rock" and curtis and james brown one after the other, for example. and i remember wbz fm being one of the earliest stations to use an automated playlist within a dj at more or less the same time. i dunno, however--maybe boston had the misfortune of being one of the earlier markets to test this kind of thing out. maybe it percolated gradually to other parts of the country.

i have long had a pet theory that correlated fm radio and its relatively open format during the late 60s-early 70s with the frame of reference that enabled much of the cultural work of the period to happen. so from that i drew the conclusion that the seperation of genres was a political act first--and that this political act had predictable effects--kinda like gentrification has--the bourgeoisie is drawn to the interesting, but cant deal with disorder--so it rearranges things in terms of its general aesthetic and in so doing kills what drew it there in the first place.

as for the specific comments above, in general fine....i tip my hat in your direction on most of them.

i dont understand why you think the velvets as you do-they made great pop songs in addition to making more "out" things---and turned out to be one of the most innovative bands of the period in terms of guitar sound. as for why i equated them with the knack--i just thought it strange that one was on and the other wasnt.

james brown was in his earlier phases as much a blues artist as anything else--its a mans world---and pretty much invented funk...i dunno, maybe i just dont buy the genre boundary that gets set up around him to quarantine his amazing work.

curits mayfield--well, i suggest him then. particularly his solo stuff up to and including super fly. excellent stuff--and right in between the r&b/rock division. and a great guitarist.

captain beefheart---there is more than trout mask. most of it is amazing stuff---it is good, i think, to keep in mind that there were other possibilities that arose during the period you are talking about. and his style is in close contact with elements of zappa's. so if one is there, the other should be as well, in my humble opinion.

miles in the early 1970s--the greatest rock band in the world. from bitches brew through panagea, the greatest. particularly, in this context, for the guitarists--mclaughlin at his best--much more interesting than in the mahavishnu orchestra (which is lilke nonetheless, and would also add to your list--shakti as well)--pete cosey one of the great blues players you will ever hear. just great stuff. on the corner---live evil---panagea---maybe leave that phase of miles' work off your list but load up your itunes with the tracks anyway i cant imagine that you would regret it. and if it turns out you do, yell at me on a subsequent thread about it.

i do think that steve ray vaughn is one of the most over-rated guitarists i have ever encountered...but this would require more time and i gotta go.

[Average_Joe]

Originally posted by pan6467

Among others and NOT 1 Person mentions the greatest R&R band ever?????

The KINKS

And I thought that I was the only one who recognizes the Kinks as the best Rock band of our time

[K-Wise]

What about George Thorogood & The Destroyers? I mean they're <b>bad</b> to the <b>bone</b>. Get it? <b>BAD</b> to the <b>BONE</b>? <font size=2>Bad to the bone, eh?</font> <font size=1>Bad to the...</font>

Asta!!

[Tophat665]

Sion,
I gotta take issue with a fair number of the bands you list, not because they're bad (some are, some aren't but that's not what this is about), but because classic rock should end somewhere in the early 80's. '84 at the latest, with bands well established well before that allowed to push into the late 80's.

No members of the Seattle Grunge Scene are classic rock, fr'instance.

Therefore, I submit that the following are not Classic Rock:

Alice in Chains, the Black Crowes, The Cult, Dream Theater, Guns N Roses; Iron Maiden (While to can be argued that Iron Maiden had their early success in the early 80's, I suspect they are too hard to be considered Classic rock. Probably ought to be listed with M&ouml;torhead.) Eric Johnson, Joe Satriani & Steve Vai (I think you have succumbed to the laudable desire to claim the best for the genre, but, though Steve Vai at least spent some time with Classic rock Bands, their individual success is too recent to warrent inclusion.); Lenny Kravitz (Tough call - the style of music he plays is, IMO indistinguishable from Classic Rock, but he's too young.) Living Color (Great Band, just after the period closed.)

Metallica? METALLICA? Old Metallica was too hard by far for any classic rock radio station to play. Therefore, they might belong in the M&ouml;torhead list, but not in the main list. New Metallica is not Classic Rock, but sounds more like it than Old Metallica, but is too new. The beginning of the end, the black album, came out when I had been at college a couple of years. That's pushing the 90's for sure. So they started sounding right 5 years too late.

XTC. No band that I can remember being played on the functonal equivalent of "Alternative" radio stations could possibly be Classic Rock. Or does REM belong on the list? They Might Be Giants?

I might toss Gordon Lightfoot into the Sort of but not quite list, and add Rupert Holmes and Cristopher Cross to tthat list as well.

Couple of other suggestions:
I might stick Velvet Undergound on there if only for Sweet Jane.
Boston

Now, this is all just my opinion. I think you're doing a great job with this thread, and it's quite fun, but man, you keep listing these early ninties bands and you are going to make me feel old.

[K-Wise]

I listed The Black Crowes because they are an old band.....been around since the late 80's I agree I don't think they even really broke out until a little later than that too but their style is just like that of an actual classic rock band....I mean they'll fit in with everyone else on his list ya know? Dunno bout the rest of the guys you've argued against. I think I'm the one who suggested Steve Vai...only because he had already accepted a couple a other dudes from his time.

Asta!!

[Sion]

Im working on the updated list right now. I can tell you one thing though, REM will NEVER make my list. I HATE those guys.

[Sion]

here is the revised and updated list. some new additions based on comments/arguments from participants. and a new appendix at the end.



The LIST

----------Numeric

10cc

.38 Special

----------A

AC/DC

Aerosmith

The Alan Parsons Project

Alice Cooper

Alice In Chains

Greg Allman

The Allman Brothers

The Amboy Dukes

The Animals

April Wine

Asia

The Atlanta Rhythm Section

----------B

Bachman Turner Overdrive (BTO)

Bad Company

Badfinger

The Band

The Beatles

Jeff Beck

Pat Benatar

The Black Crowes

Black Oak Arkansas

Black Sabbath

Blondie

Blood, Sweat & Tears

Blue Cheer

Blue Oyster Cult

Blues Image

Boston

David Bowie

Jackson Browne

Buffalo Springfield

Eric Burdon

Paul Butterfield Blues Band

The Byrds

----------C

Canned Heat

Captain Beefheart

The Cars

Eric Clapton

Cheap Trick

Chicago

The Clash

Tom Cochrane

Joe Cocker

Phil Collins

Country Joe and the Fish

Cream

Creedence Clearwater Revival (CCR)

Crosby, Stills, and Nash (and Young) (CSN/Y)

The Cult

----------D

Roger Daltry

Deep Purple

Def Leppard

Devo

Dio

Dire Straits

The Doobie Brothers

The Doors

Dream Theater

Dr. John

----------E

The Eagles

The Electric Light Orchestra (ELO)

Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP)

Eurythmics

----------F

The Fabulous Thunderbirds

Faces (aka The Small Faces)

The Firm

Fleetwood Mac

Focus

Foghat

Foreigner

Peter Frampton

Free

----------G

Peter Gabriel

Genesis

Glen Frye

Golden Earring

Grand Funk Railroad

The Grateful Dead

The Guess Who

Guns 'n' Roses

----------H

Sammy Hagar

George Harrison

Head East

Jeff Healey

Heart

Don Henley

Jimi Hendrix

The Herd

The Hollies

Hot Tuna

Humble Pie

----------I

Billy Idol

INXS

Donnie Iris (& The Cruisers)

Iron Maiden

----------J

The James Gang

Janis Joplin (& Big Brother & The Holding Company)

Jefferson Airplane/ Starship

Jethro Tull

Joan Jett (& The Blackhearts)

The J. Geils Band

Billy Joel

Elton John

Eric Johnson

Journey

Judas Preist

----------K

Kansas

King Crimson

The Kinks

Kiss

The Knack

Lenny Kravitz

----------L

Led Zeppelin

John Lennon

Gordon Lightfoot

Little Feat

Living Color

Lynrd Skynrd

----------M

Manfred Mann's Earth Band

The Marshal Tucker Band

John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers

Curtis Mayfield

Paul McCartney

Meatloaf

Metallica

The MC5

The Steve Miller Band

Montrose

The Moody Blues

Mott the Hoople

Mountain

----------N

Nazareth

The Nazz

Stevie Nicks

Ted Nugent

----------O

Ozzy Osborne

----------P

Jimmy Page

Graham Parker (& The Rumor)

Robert Plant

Tom Petty (& The Heartbreakers)

Pink Floyd

The Police

The Pretenders

The Pretty Things

Prince (Purple Rain album only)

----------Q

Queen

Queensryche

Quicksilver Messenger Service

----------R

Rainbow

The Ramones

Red Ryder

REO Speedwagon

Paul Rodgers

The Rolling Stones

David Lee Roth

Todd Rundgren

Rush

----------S

Saga

Santana

Joe Satriani

The Scorpions

Bob Seger (& The Silver Bullet Band)

Simon and Garfunkel

Patti Smith

John Spencer Blues Explosion

Spirit

Bruce Springsteen (& The E Street Band)

Billy Squier

Ringo Starr (& his All Starr Band)

Steely Dan

Rod Stewart

Sting

Styx

Supertramp

Sweet

----------T

Ten Years After

Tesla

Thin Lizzy

Pat Travers

Three Dog Night

George Thorogood & the Delaware Destroyers

Toto

Pete Townshend

Traffic

The Traveling Wilburys

T. Rex

The Troggs

Triumph

Robin Trower

----------U

U2

UFO

Uriah Heep

Utopia

----------V

Steve Vai

Van Halen

Van Morrison

Stevie Ray Vaughn

The Velvet Underground

----------W

Joe Walsh

War

Roger Waters

Bob Welch

Whitesnake

The Who

Wings

Edgar Winter

Peter Wolf

----------X

XTC

----------Y

The Yardbirds

Yes

Neil Young

----------Z

Frank Zappa (& The Mothers Of Invention)

Zebra

Warren Zevon

ZZ Top

----------
The sort-of-but-not-quite classic rock list:

America
Bread
The Beach Boys
Bo Diddley
Ry Cooder
Jan and Dean
The Mamas and the Papas
Poco
Wilson Pickett

----------
The thrown-out-entirely list (and the reason why):

Berlin (too pop, not a rock band in any sense)
Cactus (too obscure)
Electric Flag (too obscure)
Iggy Pop & The Stooges (too punk)
Motorhead (too hardcore/metal)
New York Dolls (too punk)
Red Hot Chili Peppers (too funk)

----------

The help-me-out list:

Chilliwack (who?)
Creation (used the violin bow before jimmy page)
Electric Prunes (make an argument)
Strawberry Alarm Clock (make an argument)
Chocolate Watch Band (who?)
13th Floor Elevators (who?)
Kim Mitchell/Max Webster (make an argument)
Lighthouse (who?)
Vanilla Fudge (make an argument)
Moby Grape (make an argument)
Kings X (make an argument)
Starcastle (who?)
Cruzados (who?)

[redarrow]

Now why not just make an all around rock list

[roachboy]

sion: pedantic point--small faces were a mod band that humble pie eventually spun out of (somehow--i cant remember--its early) and faces were rod stewarts band. they're both good, just two different bands.

suggestion: soft machine
i forgot about them entirely until a friend played them for me on the weekend.
their first two albums in particular, the recordings that feature robert wyatt fully integrated into the band. they are just amazing--great musicians, great arrangements, great everything.
would put their keyboard player up there with anyone on the list or elsewhere: technically and conceptually more advanced thatn emerson, for example. all that and hendrix "discovered them" toured the states with them on his first go round.


from the "help me out" list:
vanilla fudge was an interesting organ-driven band--they were known for a long and trippy version of a beatles song, but which one i cant remember. they were a fine thing.

quicksilver messenger service--a great, underrated, underrecognized psych band. (remembered them here)

13th floor elevators: roky erikson's band! excellent sludgy psych-music, very odd---great stuff, however: this is one of the better aspects of generating a list like this--you get to find out about some stuff you did not know that will twist your head up a bit and open your musicworld at the same time. soft machine, 13th floor elevators are both like that.

lighthouse: they were a one-hit band, but it was a pretty good one hit if i remember---cant recall the title and coffee is not helping--all i remember is that they featured a flute player who sucked less than ian anderson does, and that it was a long track. it might have been started "one fine morning girl i wake up[/wipte the sleep from my eyes...." and the chorus turned on flying east, flying west there is no place we cant call our own or something.
hazy on it. they were from marblehead massachusetts, though, and for that alone should maybe be on the list?

other suggestions:

eno, for the 1970s albums (here come the warm jets, another green world, before and after science, etc.) for your list.

also---for your own head, listen to king crimson albums like "larks tongues in aspic" "starless and bible black" or "red" if you havent, sir! dont let the classic rock thing stop you at 21st century schizoid man or in the court of the crimson king--thereis cool stuff out there in the later (well middle) period....

[Booray]

only one that comes to mind that I don't think has been mentioned yet:
Warren Zevon