Strange Famous

Four years sounds pretty light. I read that he choked her to the point of unconsciousness, he could be looking at attempted murder for that. But all the details will come out in court and at the moment its all just gossip which isnt that helpful.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Esoteric

I've also been seeing reports that Chris Brown and Rihanna are doing a duet about domestic violence. /facepalm

This kid is going to get a slap on the wrist and all will be forgotten in due time. Before we know it he'll be back making terrible music and making millions pleasing his pre-teen fans.

__________________
From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch
Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck
I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change
Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

Strange Famous

I reckon 5 years bottom weight. If he decides to plead innocent he's probably looking at 10. 3 to a cell, staring at a concrete wall for 23 hours a day.

Money only gets you so far.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Manic_Skafe

I'd imagine that money would get you a hell of a lot further than your special aversion to domestic violence. He's in the wrong and obviously should be punished but ten years of imprisonment over this?

..

Exactly. He won't do serious jail time and he shouldn't.

I hope his sentence comes along with a shitload of community service hours. Throwing the book at him would do a hell of a lot less for society than forcing him to educate and interact with those who adore him.

Just as they've done with T.I. who faced much more serious charges and committed a much more serious offense.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

MacGuyver

I want R. Kelly to teach me not to pee on underage women. They should make a TV show out of that, I mean, TI has a spot on MTV.

__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher

Strange Famous

If I was the DA I'd be telling Brown something like:

"listen, darling, you'e in deep shit and the state governer wants attempted murder charges against you and to bring your girlfriend on the stand with tears in her eyes to tell the world what you did to her... thats 15 years and I swear on my mother's grave I'll lean very hard on the parole board to make sure you do 10... high security, in with the worst thugs and gangsters who do hate people who beat women.... youre in very deep trouble and youre just a silly cunt. Now plead guilty right now to a lesser charge and do I'll make sure you do 5. You're really in the shit right now and I dont give a fuck about you, so squeal quickly like a fucking shit, fuck you. You're brief will do you as much good as a credit card at the gates of hell. I've marked your card and I know you will do hard time. Decide now, its 5 years or 10, very hard. Make your choice sweetheart and live with it, you cunt"

thats what I'd say.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

dlish

no shit.

oh i know....lets give those bullies that start fights on sidewalks with little dweebs 10 years too!

that'd fix things wont it!

giving unrealistic sentences does nothing for anyone. i'm sure i dont recall a 10 year jail sentence for petty offences under english common law the last time i checked.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

blahblah454

I do not even know who Chris Brown is, in fact the only name in this thread that I recognize is Rihanna and Jay Z.

But his is what I do know about "stars", they get a slap on the wrist.

And I think that the harsh reality is that no one is going to give a shit what he did, if they like his music they are still going to listen to it, and potentially buy his albums. Most people don't give a crap about the personal lives of any of the musicians or actors out there, they just enjoy what they do for us.

I think its horrible if he did beat her to a pulp. But I agree that they should give him community service, let the citizens of this great world know that its not okay to do this, and go after real criminals.

percy

Sounds that way. Even now Rhianna is being poised to not testify because of a legal loophole that identified her as the victim.

I think they will do a duet, write a book about domestic violence and go on Oprah and all will be forgiven.

One thing I know for sure is that if Rhianna is beaten up again by him or worse,..killed,..then it will be 100% her fault. If she sticks around after the beating she took already, she deserves everything that comes to her. End of story.

dlish

you're not serious are you?

100% it'd be her fault if she got beat up again or killed? 100%??

how does being the victim of domestic violence make you responsible for your own beating or death? please enlighten me

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Strange Famous

You consider attempted murder a petty offence?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

dlish

SF, you show me where i said petty offences include attempted murder. we are talking about dometic violence here.

Assault and attempted murder are two different things.lets not twist words here. its pretty plain and simple.

what i was trying to do was to draw a link between two petty offences that should be dealt with local magistrate courts. one in a domestic violence situation, the other in a street offence that also occurred a few weeks ago. usually in the australian system there is a limit to what you can sentence people for. anything further or more serious is to be dealt with higher courts

but of those two offences i mentioned earlier, if one deserves 10 years, why not the other? we ARE talking about JUSTice here right?

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Glory's Sun

There was no attempted murder here.. if you're going to start spouting charges at least know the difference between them.

Strange Famous

If he choked her, wrapped his hands around her throat and strangled her, until she was not conscious (as reported) - thats much more than common assault.

I dont understand that people consider I have some kind of "special aversion" to men who beat up women, I am a human being and it is perfectly natural to find such people revolting.

And I dont think actually that this is an attempted murder case, but I was talking about attempted murder charges, for which 10 years wouldnt be out of the question.

I believe Brown deserves 5 years certainly - IF he is guilty. Because if he did this once I think we can be fairly sure he did it more than once.

In a previous post someone alluded to something which involved me. Yes - I started a fight with two people who insulted me, and if I'd have been charged for it it would have been common assault and I'd probably have 80 hours community service, £200 compensation to pay and I'd have lost my job for it. I hold my hands up, if that'd happened I wouldnt have the right to complain about it. But a man getting into a fight with another couple of men is a million miles away from a disgusting case such as a violent thug beating up and choking a woman. No one who is sane could claim that these things are even related to each other in terms of seriousness or morality.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

All I'm saying is that even though it can happen and does on a frequent basis, there's really no point in putting charges on someone unless the DA is sure he can get a Grand Jury Indictment.

xuvio38

~~~~~

Strange Famous

Hopefully he'll have the next three and a half years with fuck all else to do but stare at a concrete wall - so he should have lots of time to write his next album at least.

I read a thread on Fark today with a load of morons saying that Rihanna deserves to be beaten up and she is asking for it and making jokes about what songs she'll do next "he hit me and it felt like a kiss" etc...

She's supposed to be a role model apparently and measure her response with all due consideration for how it will impact on others and how the media will spin it. Apparently she isnt allowed to be a human being, who has been brutalised and bullied and battered by a disgusting coward, and who might actually be suffering and in pain.

Maybe people should just give her some space to get her life back on track after this abuse.

Brown is entitled to a fair trial, and if he's found guilty then he should face the music. People like Dlish might consider that choking a 110 lbs women, smashing her head against a car window and repeatedly punching her is some kind of "petty" matter... a small thing to be dealt with by a local magistrate (am I quoting you corretly?). I am glad to say that most people find that kind of opinion ridiculous and offensive and disgraceful, and want to see real justice done. Five years bottom weight if he pleads guilty straight away, and he might get a chance to grovel in front of a parole board and get out 18 months if he keeps his head down on the inside.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

You've obviously never heard of mitigating factors.

There's no way he'll get even a year for assault. He might get some probation time and be required to make some PSA's on the ugliness of violence, Domestic Abuse etc etc, but to even say 5 years is lunacy.

Manic_Skafe

Seems quite obvious to me:


-

Most people? You might want to contrast that statement with many of the posts made in this very thread before you speak for what most people think.

Let's just hope they think of all the other prisoners and force him to serve his entire sentence in solitary confinement. We all know how feisty those 19 year old R&B singers can be.

It's obvious that those who are less capable of physically defending themselves are deserving of special protection from the law and Chris Brown should be punished accordingly. However, you can't call for blood over this when if this were two men it'd result to nothing more than a fine and maybe a few months probation.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

dlish

strangefamous, i think you need to get a grip on reality. 5 years is an extreme sentence for a petty crime that should be dealt with a magistrates court (yes you got it right). everyone wants justice. there is no doubt about it. if you want real justice, its not 5 years though. but lets just wait and see what he gets if he ever gets to trial.

lets not kid ourselves here. if i put the pic you posted last week with your facials cuts, and rihannas assault pic side by side, i dare say your pic looked markedly worse! and yours was a simple fall because some chick fell on you or something. i dont recall exactly.

And here you are saying that chris brown smashed her against the car and repeatedly punched her. please! she'd be in a lot worse shape than that if he had done what you say he did. but lets assume he did. it still wouldnt mean that he deserves 5 years jail. thats just a ludicrous number you pulled out of you're ass. it has no justification or precedent in law.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Strange Famous

I repeat that I, and the majority of people, do not find a man viciously beating up a 110 lbs women to be a "petty" crime.

In terms of legal precedent...

GBH or Wounding WITHOUT intent carries 5 years top weight in the UK. WITH intent (which I don't think will be the charge brought against Brown has a top weight of life, ie 12 years minimum on the inside)

I believe that the top weight for Felony Assault (with which Brown is charged) is also five years.

Given the cowardly nature of the attacks, the level of violence, and the huge advantage in strength over the victim (as well as the likely existence of prior violence in the relationship) - I would expect that if Brown was found guilty he would be looking at the maximum sentence certainly. As a high profile example of violence against women, would the judge decide to show the world that this a crime that is considered a "petty matter" and all he should have is a slap on the wrists - as dlish considers? Or should he and will he demonstrate that the American legal system takes these kind of abusive assaults seriously?

Mitigating factors? Brown, a physically fit and strong 19 year old attacks a young woman, while she is stuck in a locked car with a seatbelt restraining her from even raising her hands to shield herself from the repeated blows... her head is smashed into a car window, she is choked, repeatedly punched until her mouth fills with blood and she is close to passing out, and according to some reports is even bitten. What mitigating factors do we wish to discus in relation to the above? What might Rihanna have done to be considered mitigation for this attack?

I say again, if he is found guilty, throw the book at him. Five years, very hard time, sweeping up concrete dust with a dustpan and brush in the arse end of nowhere until he is half way into his 20's. He deserves no less, and the American people deserve justice to be done.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Man/Amazing

Chris Brown isn't a rapper tho.

__________________

Glory's Sun

You're forgetting one very important thing. This didn't happen in the UK.

Since you're going to go on with this sensationalist bullshit, perhaps we should also look at the reports that allege that Rhianna found another woman's number in Brown's phone and then she assaulted him first. What should we do with her then? Throw the book at her? You can't say no, because after all assault is assault right?

For the American people to get justice, we would require 2 things. A fair and unbiased trial with unbiased jurors free from sensationalist viewpoints; and a fair sentence. Your proposal is neither. You sound like bad Fox News article.

Strange Famous

Am I really supposed to believe that Rihanna - who as already stated probably weighs 110 lbs - assaulted Chris Brown? Come on, be serious... this isnt a matter for jokes and comedy.

And Felony Assault is the US crime which Brown has been charged with. From the research I did top weight for that is 5 years, so thats what Brown can expect. Five year sentence and serve 3 1/2 if he's good. I believe he is also facing a case on making criminal threats - dont know what the weight is for that, but it would reasonable to expect the sentence to run concurrently with the Felony Assault - if he pleads guilty or is found guilty.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

you started the jokes.. not me.

Does weight really factor into assault?? If I walked by you and punched you in the face and you crumbled to the ground, am I automatically exonerated of assault because you weigh quite a bit more than me? Does gender automatically exonerate someone of assault?? If Rhianna punched Brown does that not constitute assault? Does assault specifically mean "beaten to a pulp"? Perhaps you should ponder these things before you try to bring a legal precedent argument to the table.

You've also got mitigating factors messed up. Mitigating factors can be a set of guidelines that a judge can go by and set a sentence based on the scale of those factors. For instance, if the max penalty is 2 years imprisonment, and the defendant is shown to have 'x' number of mitigating factors, then the judge can reduce the sentence in accordance with the number of factors. A judge can also overturn a jurors decision although it's quite rare. Another thing to consider here, is that Brown has no prior run in's, and if he pleads guilty will get a suspended sentence. This allows for people to be put on probation to try to prove that they have learned a lesson. If they fail to meet the requirements then they must serve the sentence that was imposed. See in America, we like to give people some benefit of the doubt as well as letting people try to improve their lives. I'll be the first to admit the justice system is fucked two ways from sunday, but from what I read from you, it's nowhere near as bad as the one in the UK.

Baraka_Guru

Holy shit does this enrage the feminist in me. Rihanna could kill him. It doesn't matter what she weighs, nor does it matter if she's "the fairer sex." Who's the one with the comedy?

Why should he expect the top weight?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Look at Rihanna, look at Chris Brown. Look at the photo's of them after the incident... who do YOU think was the victim? Chris Brown is a powerfully built young man at the peak of physical fitness. Any person who's view of the world is based in reality rather than pure logic can tell that it is next to impossible that Rihanna could or would beat him. Is it technically possible for a woman to assault a man - tecnically yes. Is it likely - obviously not at all.

Brown deserves top weight precisely because there was no mitigating factor. This wasnt a fair fight, it wasnt even a fight, it was a case of a deranged thug beating someone who is not strong enough to defend themselves. She asks Brown was he has been texting another woman, he responds by beating her because she dared question him - thats the narrative I see.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Manic_Skafe

This is the same exact argument that you've used to defend the absurd opinion that a woman couldn't ever sexually assault a man - regardless of the circumstances - because in your reality it simply can't happen.

How you don't see this argument as inflammatory and sexist is beyond me.

...

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Baraka_Guru

Okay, don't take this too far out of context. I didn't say Chris Brown was the victim; though it is entirely possible that he was victimized in other less obvious ways. It simply doesn't matter how built he is -- he breathes and bleeds the same as the rest of us, he has the same life systems we do. We know how he can die, and even a child could make it happen, even by accident.

I don't know if the story has come forward, but when a woman decides to attack someone, it doesn't matter who it is or who they're attacking. It's a dangerous situation.

But is this the actual story? Do we even know this? I'm not saying he isn't responsible for the assault, but do we know Rihanna did nothing but take a beating?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

Obviously, my last post was skipped over entirely. So quit using legal terms unless you are understanding of them. and.. just in case you missed it the first time, here's my previous post again.

I don't know why I bother to debate with you SF. You take a viewpoint and do not bother to even try to see it in a different light.

EDIT: Here's a short list of mitigating factors that can be used in a person's defense.

http://www.fd.org/pdf_lib/108Mitigating_Factors.pdf

read it and quit tossing bullshit around that there is no mitigating factor. There are *ALWAYS* mitigating factors in trials.

Strange Famous

And I repeat that there are no mitigating factors to be considered if Brown is found guilty or confesses.

I understand what the word mitigation means, and it is a relative concept. There is no fact which Brown can state regarding his situation which is relivant in relation to the crime committed.

For example, being a drug addict might be relavant to theft charges, because the person's sickness drove them to steal.

Trying to get clean might be relevant to drugs charges, because the person is facing up to their problems.

These are mitigating factors.

In relation to the level of violence which this brute exercised against a defenceless young woman, there is no fact which is of sufficient relavance IN RELATION TO THE DISGUSTING NATURE OF THE CRIME wich can be considered mitigation.

This wasnt the first time, she wasnt "asking for it" because of something she said about him having other girls phone numbers, he is not genuinely sorry because if so he would have plea bargained already and asked for 10 years rather than the five he'll get.

Brown has no excuse for these crimes, and there is no mitigating factors. The seriousness of the crime does not allow for any.

The majority of people want to see him do serious time - if he gets only 1 year, what message does this send to the women of America? That the state will allow a thug to beat a woman close to unconsciousness and only give a light sentence because it is a "petty crime"? I would expect this under the Taleban regime in Afghanistan, not in the worlds greatest power - what would this say about American justice. No, this is not good enough. He must face a real sentence and he must be made an example of. The fact that these crimes were carried out in the public eye means that the public demands absolute justice.

He should be facing whatever the US equivalent is to GBH with Intent, and then he would be glad to plea down to five years.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

You're so completely wrong on every facet of this. I'm not going to argue the legal side with you anymore because honestly, you're clueless.

Strange Famous

What you must understand is that morality comes into this. The law is not a mathematical formula applied by a machine, it is a process governed by human beings. The judge just needs to look at the pictures of Rihann'a battered face to decide what Brown deserves, not some 100 page document about reasons to go easy on criminals.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

no what you must understand is that the 100 page document exists for a reason. A judge is bound to not put his own morality into a sentence. A trial exists for the factual reasonings..not the moral reasonings, because morality is subjective. There is no one set standard of morality. To blanket everyone under one definition of morality does nothing.

The law exists for a reason, just as the factors exist for a reason. You say there are none in this case, but, you don't know the whole story and cannot come to that conclusion by any means other than your own vision of morality.

this is why you are wrong. not because you can't read. you're wrong as a whole on the entire process of the justice system in the united states.

Strange Famous

The law is nothing more or less than an expression of the morality of the society in which it exists. The state may try to place in checks and balances, but any such things can be swept aside with sufficient popular demand. No judgment is made in a moral vacuum, and as I said in the first instance, every mitigating factor is considered in relation to the crime.

Would the same exact circumstances be considered equally as mitigating factors for a car thief and a serial killer? Of course not - and that is the point I am making.

Brown might not be a murderer, but his actions have put him in a deep enough hole that nothing can save him from taking the top weight for this.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

of course you don't use the same mitigating factors.. that's why the attorney selects the mitigating factors that pertain to the case. DUH. One rather simple mitigating factor the judge could look at is that Brown had no motive to do this and he wouldn't receive monetary gain by doing this. Another would be that Brown would be subject to unfair treatment in prison. There ya go, there's two factors right there. So don't say that there are none in this case. You're confusing factors that lead to the incident with factors that the defendant has in his favor.

Here's a little tidbit you might enjoy. Brown hasn't even been arraigned yet. So guess what that means.. he'll get no time on this. So yeah you're so wrong on claiming top weight. His actions have not put him in any sort of deep hole. He'll simply pull his probation and then he'll come out squeeky clean. Obviously the abuse wasn't that bad if Rhianna is back with him. That completely blows the case out of the water. That's why we haven't even seen an arraignment yet. The DA will offer him 1 year of probation in lieu of a maximum 180 day jail sentence or something similar. So keep championing top weight or some insane amount of jail time for this.. it's not going to happen.

Strange Famous

Most prisons have special units for the most revolting criminals who might be subject to violence from other inmates - so that cannot be a consideration.

The crime is not a financial crime, so whether he materially gained from the assaualt is irrelevant to the charges he faces.

I dont believe that him and Rihanna are back together. He is facing Felony Assault charges as I understand, if I was in his position I would have thought he wouldnt have applied for bail and should have stayed inside on remand - there'd be a good chance that time served could be taken into account against the sentence.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

actually, considering the amount of money they both make both of those factors can certainly be used. Special houses do not guarantee safety of prisoners.

and here's a article about them being back together

Rihanna and Chris Brown Are Back Together - Chris Brown, Rihanna : People.com

Strange Famous

TI just got one year for possession of an illegal metal.

Does any person, whether a judge or a person on this site - with their hand on their heart think that Chris Brown should be treated more lightly than this for savagely beating up Rihanna?

Also, the judge may be forced to consider foriegn relations. The people of Barbados would surely see it as a slap in the face if an American hooligan is allowed to beat up one of their favourite daughters? Im not saying Bardados poses an economic threat to the US, but of course they would not want to sour relations with such a close neighbour.

This really can be an issue. Does anyone remember the English nanny Louise Woodward who was convicted of manslaughter of a baby? The UK press was rabid and bordering on suggesting a pre-emptive tactical nuclear assault on Boston, there were petitions raised with 100,000's of signatures, reports of American ex-pats in the UK renouncing their citizenship (even if its only a couple of nutcases, its still powerful stuff) - the judge was under so much pressure he sentenced her to time served and no more. So international relations can definitely be an issue in a domestic case when the public attention is captured.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

vnvnvn2000

chris brown just made himself a sorry sucker. why should we feel sorry for him? did rhianna beat the shit out of him or something?