Ask the car salesman - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pocon1 · 08-23-2005, 07:25 PM

nothing to say

Willravel · 08-23-2005, 07:57 PM

Is it better to finance throught the dealership, or with my own bank?
If I come in to buy a car with a bag of cash (no financing at all), can I get a great deal,or is that just a myth?
What can one do to increase tthe trade in value of their old car?

Thanks for the help!!

pocon1 · 08-23-2005, 08:06 PM

nothing to say

Willravel · 08-23-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

As far as financing, we do make money on financing. Buying cash does not help the dealer and it cuts into our profit.

Well, let's say I walk onto a dealership wanting to buy a 2006 Mitsu Eclipse GT manual, and I have $20k cash waiting at home. I test drive, like it, go home, and return with the cash in hand and a knack for haggling. The car should go for around $21k + dealership markup normally. Do I have a shot??

Borla · 08-23-2005, 08:17 PM

Is it true that you make 80% of your money on 20% of the customers (i.e. the uninformed)?

If a buyer comes in, appears educated about the models and options available to him, and has his financing pre-approved, how do you treat him differently than the average person off the street that is not a car person, and doesn't seem to have done their homework?

pocon1 · 08-23-2005, 08:24 PM

nothing to say

pocon1 · 08-23-2005, 08:31 PM

nothing to say

Borla · 08-23-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

borla, ultimately our goal is to sell him or her a car. a sale for a lesser price is still a sale, and not one for your competitor. So a good salesperson will talk to the uninformed customer and try to find the car that meets their needs, not the salesperson's needs. Also, at least at our dealership, customer surveys carry a lot of weight, ie they have an impact on our finances. We get paid on the quality of our surveys.
as far as where we make our money, the 80/20 rule is that 80% of our business comes from 20% of our work. If you do things right, like good followup with a customer that has left, asking for referrals, staying in contact with the customer, then a relationship is built. One of our salesmen derives the majority of his business from his client database built over the last 10 years. He works the list, never takes ups, plans his appts and sets his schedule.
Also, remember that perception is very important. If the customer is happy, then they are happy. The car is what it is. If they felt they got a good deal, they got a good deal.

I'm a "car guy". I grew up interested in cars, have always read car magazines, usually work on my own cars, and I even moderate the largest GM performance board on the internet (according to bigboards.com). Every single time I shop for a car, I know all about it, the options it has, it's performance, etc. I have had quite a few salespeople try to BS and pretend that they knew the car well when they didn't. Nothing turns me off more. Not even so much that they don't know about the car, but that they are trying to PRETEND they do, when it's obvious to me that they don't. I will (and have) turn around and leave, and go to another dealership, even if I am set on that particular model. Just an observation/advice for you. Best case, know your product inside and out (and I recommend you surf the car forums related to whatever brands/models you sell for information and perception of it). Worst case, don't try to BS if you don't know.

Not at all aiming that with the implication that YOU do, just that I've personally encountered it more than once, and it definitely has cost salesmen my business in the past.

pocon1 · 08-23-2005, 08:44 PM

nothing to say

Borla · 08-23-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

But if you lie, you lose credibility.

EXACTLY!!!

I can respect someone saying "I need to go check on that to be sure I have accurate information" or simply saying "I'm going to have to look that up, hold on a minute".

I show my ass to the guy who doesn't know and starts spewing hot air to cover that fact.

KeyserSoze · 08-23-2005, 10:38 PM

Pocon1,

So you joined the ranks of the car business

Now...this is from someone who has been in it for over ten years now..and don't take this the wrong way, it's meant to help.

Keep your eyes, ears open and don't try to learn too much too quickly as it will destroy you in this business.

A LOT of what you hear from you managers, closers, desk managers..etc when you're a greenpea is BULLSHIT!

The CSI is a tool that helps the OWNER, not the salesperson(with the exceptions of spins) A good CSI rating helps him with his dealer cash, advertising dollars and allocation for cars.

Financing rates depends on how fucking greedy the desk is feeling that day, especially if they have a customer that is not in tune witn what they should pay .

Now...if you wish to be a hero to your clients always tell your deskman that your client wants a 5 day option contract to shop the rate..this tell them they can only make a 1/2 point on the rate..maybe a point, so always ask your client if they have a credit union or bank they have been with awhile.

HELP YOUR CLIENT..FUCK THE OWNER as he is stealing you blind right now, along with finance also..ESPECIALLY if you do any leases.

Dealerships love to steal greenpeas money and on lease they can hide whatever front end gross you made and move it to the back and tell you it was a mini deal. This is why you have to pay attention.

The more you help your client the further you will go in this business especially if you maintain your integrity and don't become like all those other fucking sleeze bag thieves that rip anyone and everyone off they can.

If your dealership is owned by Sonic or Auto Nation fucks...QUIT NOW!

They are destroying the business and stealing you blind...take my word for it.

I would love to get into more but maybe on my next post but it's time to go nighty night as I am one tired fuck right now and I have another 12 hour day ahead of me.

Feel free to ask me anything and the KS will guide you my friend.

God Bless

pocon1 · 08-24-2005, 05:26 AM

nothing to say

pocon1 · 08-24-2005, 05:58 AM

nothing to say

iccky · 09-08-2005, 09:35 PM

Pocon, thanks for sticking your neck out for a profession that often gets a bad rap.

Now onto my question.

I'm test driving a vehicle tomorrow. It's aused toyota corolla that's selling for under bluebook. I did a carfax check and it came up clean, single owner, accurate mileage etc. But I also googled the dealership name and found some really awful reviews.

So as a seemingly ethical insider in this business, I'm turning to you for advice. Why would a dealership sell a used car for this much under blue book? Are the complaints a sign that they're going to (try to) screw me? If so, what should I be on my guard for?

The follow-up: the car is listed at "Toyota certified used." Does this actually mean anything, or (especially given the complaints about the dealership) is it a pretty worthless guarantee?

Martian · 09-08-2005, 11:19 PM

Here's one for you.

I was taught growing up that cars on a dealer's lot are always listed with wiggle room and that the dealers give themselves enough space to lower the price and still make a profit. Therefore, goes the wisdom, one should always haggle to lower the price. It's expected within the industry (both for new and used cars) that some haggling will take place and that anyone who actually pays sticker price has more money than sense.

I've always found both in my own automotive purchases and those of friends/family that I've been along for that this is true, but the dealer generally puts on a show about how he's doing a favour and that he's making little/no money on this sale.

So since I've got the perspective of a salesman, I'm wondering if you find this to be true on your side of it? Do you approach a sale with the expectation that a potential customer is going to try to get a better deal on it, or is it more of a my way or the highway thing? Is there leeway in the sticker price for that?

shakran · 09-09-2005, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iccky

Pocon, thanks for sticking your neck out for a profession that often gets a bad rap.

Now onto my question.

I'm test driving a vehicle tomorrow. It's aused toyota corolla that's selling for under bluebook. I did a carfax check and it came up clean, single owner, accurate mileage etc. But I also googled the dealership name and found some really

Remember that a car can have a clean title history and still have all sorts of problems with it. It could have engine troubles (no one's gonna report a blown head gasket to the insurance company, so it's not gonna show up on a title search), it could have mega rust issues that the dealership hid with a little bondo and a cheap-assed paint job. . .All sorts of things can be wrong with the car that if you don't REALLY know what you're looking for, you'll never find until you've already bought it.

Used car dealerships have a LOT of tricks they can use to make a car appear really nice when in fact it's a rolling junkpile. Be very cautious especially if it's a known bad dealership.

pocon1 · 09-10-2005, 04:24 AM

nothing to say

pocon1 · 09-10-2005, 04:30 AM

nothing to say

tec-9-7 · 09-10-2005, 06:06 AM

Ok pocon1 I've got a question - Is there any reason I as a car buyer shouldn't use Costco's program where I get a voucher for one X model car for invoice + ~$300, then just ride over to the dealer they assign me, hand them the voucher and drive away?

pocon1 · 09-10-2005, 03:38 PM

nothing to say

junglistic · 09-10-2005, 07:53 PM

here has been my somewhat limited knowledge on the matter of buying USED from a dealership..

DONT.

If someone will sell there car for a certain price, at tradein, (which is obviously much less then what the dealership will sell to you), they (the ownders of the used vehicle) will sell that car for the same price to you. Why not cut out the middleman. Yes convience is one point, but really, an aggresive buyer can easily make a much better buy going private. Sorry for the honest truth, but it needs to be said.

wakelagger · 09-11-2005, 05:12 PM

junglistic:

but from what I understand, the dealership puts a warranty behind the used cars they sell as well. Unlike Joe Privatesale, the dealership has a reputation that they want to uphold. If the dealership is willing to get the trade in, fix the car up, put a warranty on the hood, and resell it with a mark-up, its probably going to be worth your while.
Like Honda has a Certified Gold used car classification, in which the car is sold with a 6 year/160 000 km major component warranty from in-service date (time of purchase?). Toyota has a similar program. I'm sure most manufacturers have a program like it.
Thats something Curtis Curbside can't offer.

laconic1 · 09-11-2005, 05:36 PM

One thing to keep in mind about warranties on used cars is what they cover. Many of the extended warranties out there, even the warranties from the manufacturers certified programs are powertrain only, so if anything else like a power window or suspension problem or something else happens there would not be coverage. Depending on the warranty powertrain can mean just internally lubricated parts in the driveline as well, so if you get a check engine light because a sensor or fuel injector went out you are out of luck.

08-23-2005, 07:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	Ask the car salesman nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:57 PM..

08-23-2005, 08:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:57 PM..

08-23-2005, 08:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Borla Junkie	Is it true that you make 80% of your money on 20% of the customers (i.e. the uninformed)? If a buyer comes in, appears educated about the models and options available to him, and has his financing pre-approved, how do you treat him differently than the average person off the street that is not a car person, and doesn't seem to have done their homework? __________________ Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

08-23-2005, 08:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:57 PM..

08-23-2005, 08:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:56 PM..

08-23-2005, 07:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Is it better to finance throught the dealership, or with my own bank? If I come in to buy a car with a bag of cash (no financing at all), can I get a great deal,or is that just a myth? What can one do to increase tthe trade in value of their old car? Thanks for the help!!

08-23-2005, 08:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:56 PM..

08-23-2005, 10:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
KeyserSoze Psycho Location: Lost Angeles	Pocon1, So you joined the ranks of the car business Now...this is from someone who has been in it for over ten years now..and don't take this the wrong way, it's meant to help. Keep your eyes, ears open and don't try to learn too much too quickly as it will destroy you in this business. A LOT of what you hear from you managers, closers, desk managers..etc when you're a greenpea is BULLSHIT! The CSI is a tool that helps the OWNER, not the salesperson(with the exceptions of spins) A good CSI rating helps him with his dealer cash, advertising dollars and allocation for cars. Financing rates depends on how fucking greedy the desk is feeling that day, especially if they have a customer that is not in tune witn what they should pay . Now...if you wish to be a hero to your clients always tell your deskman that your client wants a 5 day option contract to shop the rate..this tell them they can only make a 1/2 point on the rate..maybe a point, so always ask your client if they have a credit union or bank they have been with awhile. HELP YOUR CLIENT..FUCK THE OWNER as he is stealing you blind right now, along with finance also..ESPECIALLY if you do any leases. Dealerships love to steal greenpeas money and on lease they can hide whatever front end gross you made and move it to the back and tell you it was a mini deal. This is why you have to pay attention. The more you help your client the further you will go in this business especially if you maintain your integrity and don't become like all those other fucking sleeze bag thieves that rip anyone and everyone off they can. If your dealership is owned by Sonic or Auto Nation fucks...QUIT NOW! They are destroying the business and stealing you blind...take my word for it. I would love to get into more but maybe on my next post but it's time to go nighty night as I am one tired fuck right now and I have another 12 hour day ahead of me. Feel free to ask me anything and the KS will guide you my friend. God Bless __________________ THERE IS NO KEYSER SOZE!!

08-24-2005, 05:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:56 PM..

08-24-2005, 05:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:55 PM..

09-08-2005, 09:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
iccky Psycho Location: Princeton, NJ	Pocon, thanks for sticking your neck out for a profession that often gets a bad rap. Now onto my question. I'm test driving a vehicle tomorrow. It's aused toyota corolla that's selling for under bluebook. I did a carfax check and it came up clean, single owner, accurate mileage etc. But I also googled the dealership name and found some really awful reviews. So as a seemingly ethical insider in this business, I'm turning to you for advice. Why would a dealership sell a used car for this much under blue book? Are the complaints a sign that they're going to (try to) screw me? If so, what should I be on my guard for? The follow-up: the car is listed at "Toyota certified used." Does this actually mean anything, or (especially given the complaints about the dealership) is it a pretty worthless guarantee?

09-08-2005, 11:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Here's one for you. I was taught growing up that cars on a dealer's lot are always listed with wiggle room and that the dealers give themselves enough space to lower the price and still make a profit. Therefore, goes the wisdom, one should always haggle to lower the price. It's expected within the industry (both for new and used cars) that some haggling will take place and that anyone who actually pays sticker price has more money than sense. I've always found both in my own automotive purchases and those of friends/family that I've been along for that this is true, but the dealer generally puts on a show about how he's doing a favour and that he's making little/no money on this sale. So since I've got the perspective of a salesman, I'm wondering if you find this to be true on your side of it? Do you approach a sale with the expectation that a potential customer is going to try to get a better deal on it, or is it more of a my way or the highway thing? Is there leeway in the sticker price for that? __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

09-10-2005, 04:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:55 PM..

09-10-2005, 04:30 AM	#18 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:55 PM..

09-10-2005, 06:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
tec-9-7 Insane Location: Rainy Washington	Ok pocon1 I've got a question - Is there any reason I as a car buyer shouldn't use Costco's program where I get a voucher for one X model car for invoice + ~$300, then just ride over to the dealer they assign me, hand them the voucher and drive away?

09-10-2005, 03:38 PM	#20 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:54 PM..

09-10-2005, 07:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
junglistic Insane	here has been my somewhat limited knowledge on the matter of buying USED from a dealership.. DONT. If someone will sell there car for a certain price, at tradein, (which is obviously much less then what the dealership will sell to you), they (the ownders of the used vehicle) will sell that car for the same price to you. Why not cut out the middleman. Yes convience is one point, but really, an aggresive buyer can easily make a much better buy going private. Sorry for the honest truth, but it needs to be said.

09-11-2005, 05:12 PM	#22 (permalink)
wakelagger Insane Location: Toronto	junglistic: but from what I understand, the dealership puts a warranty behind the used cars they sell as well. Unlike Joe Privatesale, the dealership has a reputation that they want to uphold. If the dealership is willing to get the trade in, fix the car up, put a warranty on the hood, and resell it with a mark-up, its probably going to be worth your while. Like Honda has a Certified Gold used car classification, in which the car is sold with a 6 year/160 000 km major component warranty from in-service date (time of purchase?). Toyota has a similar program. I'm sure most manufacturers have a program like it. Thats something Curtis Curbside can't offer.

09-11-2005, 05:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	One thing to keep in mind about warranties on used cars is what they cover. Many of the extended warranties out there, even the warranties from the manufacturers certified programs are powertrain only, so if anything else like a power window or suspension problem or something else happens there would not be coverage. Depending on the warranty powertrain can mean just internally lubricated parts in the driveline as well, so if you get a check engine light because a sensor or fuel injector went out you are out of luck.