Savage

Hello,

I'm looking to buy my first car (used) and have never negotiated with car salesmen before. The car I am looking at is a Mazda Protegé 2000, Automatic, 90000 Kilometers, with AW, AD, AM, Air Conditioning and CD.

It's listed at 10 700$ Canadian.. (Which is roughly 8 800$ US)

I know that the price depends on the condition and status of the car.. but in general, what is a fair price to pay for such a vehicle if it is in pretty decent condition?

At what Money value should I be starting the negotiations at?

Key Point: I will be paying CA$H, and I've heard that this gives me some leverage. What kind of leverage and how do I go about using it?

I will be asking for a few things to be fixed: the CD player doesn't work, the battery needs to be replaced, and some key scratches need to be buffed out, and the front passenger seat needs to be fixed (if you lie down in the sit and then try to sit back up, while holding the lever the seat doesn't automatically come back up like it should. Does that make sense?)

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I'm looking for your experience in dealing with salesmen, and what's a fair deal. I'm also looking for negotiating tips.

Thanks!

PS: I can't look at Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book for prices because I live in canada!!!!

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DJMala

The first thing to remember is don't expect to go in there and wheel and deal. These guys do this for a living, and you will get mowed down. Know what you are willing to pay for the car and stick to it. Don't take any bullshit, and don't hesitate for a second to walk away if you aren't getting the deal you want. Don't let them push you into making any snap decisions. There are a gazillion used cars out there that you can buy, he needs your money more than you need his car.

The most important thing you need to know is the value of the car. I'm not sure how you go about this in Canada, if you can't get a price from Kelly's or Edmunds. Perhaps some Canadian members can chime in?

Paying cash makes you a more attractive customer, because a cash sale is money in the bank. No chance of losing money on a bad loan. Basically, the dealer should be more willing to give you what you want (within reason, of course). If he's not, walk away.

Yes, one of the terms of the sale should be that these things are to be fixed to your satisfaction. List all of these things and get it in writing so you can't get screwed afterward. Or if they are unable or unwilling to fix any of these things, deduct the cost of the repair from your price.

Another good point, ask them to let you take the car to your own mechanic to have it checked over before you go ahead with the sale. If the dealership is reputable, they won't question this. They may even offer to deliver the car to your mechanic for you. If they give you a hard time about this, kill the deal and get out. Chances are they're hiding something.

Boo

Sometimes cash will hurt your bargaining power. They may have an arrangement with a financial institution where they share points on the loan. I refuse to tell them firmly how I am paying, it is not their business. I insinuate that I may not have more cash than the down payment.

Example:
Car is $10,000

If you pay cash, they get $10,000

If you get a loan through them and they get a point. At 10% they get 3% or $300. They now make $10,300.

Never ever go back to the dealer to resign paperwork. If they say there is a problem with your credit and want a higher amount, tell them you no longer want the vehicle. Most states have 3 days anyway. You can get a better deal.

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DDDDave

Number 1 rule. DON'T FALL IN LOVE. As soon as you determine that you absolutley have to have 'that' car, you will pay too much. There will always be another one. Especially in used cars.

If this is your first car, a used car salesman is definitely going to take advantage of you. Sorry, just the truth.

Don't go alone. I'm telling you man, this is war, and you need help. Be prepared to put some time in. You will not get the best deal in a short period of time. It takes time to wear them down. Remember, you have the money.

First, 'you' need to determine the value of the car to you. What the dealership is asking means nothing. Tell them so.

Second, do not sign anything until the price is agreed and the car is fixed. They will tell you everything except that the moon is cheese that you have to sign a contract first. Don't do it. Once you do, you lose any leverage. Do not agree to subtract the cost of repairs from the price. Make them fix it. A seat the does not return may require a new seat. The salesman will say 'we will fix it', you say 'go ahead, you will have to fix it whether you sell it to me or not so just do it before I agree on a price'. Once you start acting a little tough and let him know you will not be pushed around he will be a little more fair. Don't let your guard down. Remember, the salesman is there to sell cars. You are the guy with money in his hand. He wants your business. If he acts insulted that you offered too low, piss on him, he is just playing you.

Read up on negotiating skills at consumerreports.com and places like that.

Understand how financing comes into the negotiations. Boo is right, they make money on financing (sometimes as much as on the car) so treat those as seperate negotiations. Tell them you might be financing it if you get good enough terms. What you might find is that he will give you a lower price on the car if he thinks he can make more money on the loan too. Great, then hold him to that price when you say you will be paying cash. him: 'Oh, we can't do that' you: 'OK, goodbye'.(See RULE #1) Everything, and I mean everything, is negotiable.

Good Luck.

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"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau

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Willravel

Bring a gun. And some coffee.

tommyboy

You are doing the right thing by asking advise. Go on the net and do ALOT of research before buying. Shop around for similiar cars and compare the asking prices. The car your looking at now doesnt seem to have been maintaned...if they couldnt be bothered putting a new battery in it were they bothered to change the oil? Good luck in your search!

ggadgit

Big +1 on the don't fall in love point. Go in ready to walk out, I just bought a used lumina for 3,000 cash. the dealer would quote me a price I told him less they would not go down so I thanked him and said that I had other car lots to look at today, bam price started dropping like a lead ballon. was still not what I wanted, tried to get up to leave, wham! price droped to what I wanted. Good luck, check the kelly blue book for the value before walking in.

kutulu

There is the kelly blue book but I think that is only for cars sold in America. Is there something similar in Canada?

Don't take shit from them and be VERY aggressive. The asshole always gets the better deal.

shakran

run a title history. the last time I shopped for a used car, dealerships were trying to hide salvage titles on me.


Too bad for them I'm a journalist, and ran a sting story on 'em after I finally found the car I wanted (from a private seller)

saigon1965

How about skipping the stealer and look for used in the classified, you'll get way more for your money, just get the vehicle check out by a competent technician. I've always bought used and from private party. Like DJMala wrote, these guys do this for a living.

DJMala

One of the first places I went to when I was looking for a car had nothing but crap on the lot. I finally took a 2000 Monte LS around the block just to see what it was like. After, the salesman hustled me into his office and desperately tried to sell me the car. I kept trying to leave, because I really wasn't ready to buy anything at that point, and the price kept coming down and down. It must have been the end of a *really* slow month, because the salesman and his manager were both all but pleading with me to take the car. I was pissed, because if it had been a car I was even remotely interested in, I could have gotten a nice deal.

THGL

I tried my hand at selling cars about 14 years ago. I had to take a 2 week sales course and the number one thing they taught us was "take control." Whoever gets the upper hand first usually wins, remember that.

I'm going to second (or third) do not fall in love. Actually, toss out some hints that you're not completely sold on the car. If the salesman thinks you're on the fence about buying, he might offer a few things (CD player, seats fixed) without you asking.

Do not talk price until the end! He's gonna want to know right at the beginning, but just keep telling him "let's not worry about that right now." Make sure all the repairs are agreed to (and on paper) before any prices are thrown around.

Get as much knowledge about your car before walking on the lot. Find out the trade-in, private party, and retail cost of your car. If you can't find it online, go to a new car dealer and ask if they'll look it up for you (they all work from the sale books). Also, go online and look for any forums specific to your make and model, you might find out what to look for and look out for (rust, bad electrics, etc.).

Wait until the last week of the month to go in. If your salesman is short on his sales that month, he'll do just about anything to make the sale.

If anything doesn't go the way you want, walk. I remember when I was little (12 or so) I went with my grandfather to buy a new car. The negotiations when south and we left abruptly. The salesman RAN after us when we were in the old car driving towards the exit... I remember that every time I get into a price negotiation.