04-10-2004, 12:45 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Crazy
|
BMW- 328 vs 330
I am in the market for a used BMW and the 2001-2002 BMW 3-series really have caught my eye. I want a coupe and I really like the 328s and 330s but I want to know if the 330 will be worth the extra money. I'm looking to spend about 20,000-23,000. Is there a difference between the two models? Are there any alternatives I should look at? I mean, is it worth it to get a used BMW when I can buy a brand new Toyota or a Chevy for the same amount? Thanks :-)
BTW I will be using the car for making a daily commute of 30 minutes or so. I'm not looking for a racer or anything. Are there any alternatives I'm overlooking? Thanks :-) |
04-10-2004, 01:51 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: [insert witty play on location field here]
|
Well, the 330 is basically an unbadged M3, chassis/suspension-wise.
Also, BMWs are great cars, but they are expensive to maintain, and more expensive to fix. Are you buying from a dealer? If so, I would definitely get a warranty, you'll thank yourself later. Just my opinions/experiences....good luck. |
04-10-2004, 04:10 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: st. louis
|
if you can afford it go 330 i dont now about it being an unbadged m3 maybe with sports backage or performance package
the difference between 330 and 328 is all in the engine but you will eb much better off with 330 if you have to go automatic which of course i would never sugest
__________________
"The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt |
04-11-2004, 08:04 PM | #4 (permalink) | |
Insane
|
Quote:
Sorry, Wrong and Wrong. 330's and M3's dont share much beside the basic chassis and body, and even thats been reworked. M3 is a different beast altogether. BMW's being expensive to maintain is a myth. I've owned BMW's my whole life and while they ARE more expensive to fix (and even then, only if you use OEM parts which I do reccomend doing) you dont have to fix them nearly as often as your standard chevy cars and the like. BMW's are much better built than toyotas or chevys, if you dont believe me go drive them back to back, You'll be able to feel that a BMW is better. All that said, 330's and 328's are both excellent cars. You cant really go wrong with one or the other. My only suggestion is go drive them both, you're the only one who knows what you need. |
|
04-12-2004, 11:46 AM | #5 (permalink) |
More Freedom, Less Bullshit
Location: Tulsa, OK
|
The switch from the 328 to the 330 happened in 2001. The 3.0 is a little stronger than the 2.8L (up about 20hp), but they are functionally equivalent. The main difference is that if you want a 2001 and newer 3-series you get to pick from a 325 (2.5L Inline-6) or a 330(3.0L Inline-6), and if you go older than that you still have the 2.5L (called a 323) or the 2.8L(328). Older than '97 and there is a 4-cylinder offered (318) which the critics normally only recommend for a "budget" BMW experience, and I'd only recommend with a 5-speed.
__________________
-Erik Stupid people shouldn't breed. |
04-12-2004, 01:11 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: portland, or
|
the engine in the 330 is basically the same thing as the E36 m3 without the cam and the .2 liters of displacement...it is just detuned for better milage and all around performance. as for the chassis, it is different than the E46 M3 in many ways, however, if you were to compare chassis dynamics of a 330i vs. E36 M3, the 330 would trump the older car by a long shot....soooo if you are looking for an older E36 M3, you might as well blow for the 330i witht the sports pack (they even have a new performance package that boosts hp to 235, new exhaust, cam, etc.) and a warranty....
__________________
TFP=heaven Heaven, n 1: the abode of God and the angels and the souls of those who have gained salvation 2: any place of complete bliss and delight and peace [syn: eden, paradise, nirvana, promised land, Shangri-la] |
04-12-2004, 05:50 PM | #7 (permalink) | ||||
Insane
Location: [insert witty play on location field here]
|
Quote:
BMW dealerships charge more for maintainence on them then a Chevy dealership does on a Chevy. Period. Research this and you'll see. How about true cost to own? Well here's a little breakdown on a used 2002 BMW 330i (225 hp/214 lb-ft tq.), as it compares to the same year Infiniti G35 (sedan), and Benz C-Class (and a Mazda Millenia, but whatever). You'll notice the BMW has the highest True Cost to Own of the bunch. This includes estimated costs associated with maintainence and repairs. Now here is a breakdown in a brand new, never driven, full warranty'd 2004 Grand prix GTP. 260 hp/280 lb-ft tq. Brand new and still cheaper than the Bimmer. BMW's are expensive to own. And fix. And maintain. Quote:
Not trying to be a dick, just to make a point. BMWs are not easy to work on, which = more $$$ in labor. Parts are scarce, which means more $$$ in dealer parts. The dealer (or whatever BMW mechanic might be working on your car) knows that its an expensive vehicle, whose owner probably cant fix it him/her self, and obviously has a pretty decent stash-o-cash (as is the stereotype of owners of newer BMWs) to spend on repairs and maintainence. We used to do it all the time. The cars are more difficult to work on, so hell ya we're gonna charge ya more. Quote:
Quote:
If you've got the cash flow, go for it! (No slam against BMW, I really do like their cars, and again no offense meant by this post, just my experiences/findings ) Last edited by bad30th; 04-12-2004 at 09:46 PM.. |
||||
04-12-2004, 08:09 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: st. louis
|
driving a bmw is more than the chasis it some connection that you don't get in the infiniti or benz i cant explain it but i just feal safer driving my bmw versus any other car
__________________
"The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt |
04-13-2004, 09:22 AM | #10 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Champaign, IL
|
I'd go for the 330. Especially if you can find one with a manual.
As for the M3 comparisons, not at all. The suspension is a completely different monster in the M3, the engine is reworked in and out, and the whole flow of the car is completely different.
__________________
What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore! |
04-13-2004, 11:00 AM | #11 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: portland, or
|
luckily my dad sells bmw's, i get any work done @ cost... but even then, we've had our 330 for a year now and have never needed a shop visit... it drives like right off the lot... love it!
__________________
TFP=heaven Heaven, n 1: the abode of God and the angels and the souls of those who have gained salvation 2: any place of complete bliss and delight and peace [syn: eden, paradise, nirvana, promised land, Shangri-la] |
04-13-2004, 06:29 PM | #12 (permalink) |
Crazy
|
Thanks for the expert help. :-) Here is another question, what other alternatives will I have. I figure I have about 20,000-24,000 to spend. I want a coupe or something sporty with lot's of features. Thanks for the help you guys :-) You're like the knowledgable dad I never had :-p
|
04-13-2004, 08:05 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
|
Quote:
GM have to have THE WORST engineering quality on the road today. I have a 97 Buick Park Avenue that spends more time hanging from a tow truck than driving down the road. It's been towed so many times that the Autoclub has revoked my membership till renewal next year. Just out of curiousity about your site you linked to, I did a search on a Park Ave. and found that your site said that my car has an excellent power train. So I now know that they don't have a clue because my P.O.S. has one of the worst powertrains going. GM anything is bad news. http://www.edmunds.com/used/type/199...excontent..0.* |
|
04-14-2004, 09:48 AM | #14 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: [insert witty play on location field here]
|
If you had read the entire thread, you would probably know the only reason I made that comparison was because I was responding to someone else's comparison.
And I find it funny how everyone is so quick to proclaim their problems with their GM cars, but no one will say anything of their problems with their BMWs. Why? GMs are supposed to break, BMWs arent, right? So if I have a BMW that is a piece of shit, hell no I'm not going to tell everyone about it, because I when I bought this car, I told everyone that it would break far less than any other car (if at all), so now if I tell people that my Bimmer is a pile, I will be wrong. Cant have that. Like I said before, I worked on many a BMW and spoke with many a BMW owner. About half of the owners would have you believe that their cars were in tip top operating condition (see above), but it was obvious enough to us that they were not. The other half were pretty cool about talking about what was up with their cars...some of which admitted that they didnt want to fix/maintain certain parts of their car because it was just too damn expensive. Concerning the site I linked to, Edmunds.com, if you dont know anything about them, well, that sorta tells me the extent of your automotive knowledge. Edmunds is one of the top sources for car ratings. And if you understand anything about the way they rate cars, you would probably know that it is impossible to rate the entire population of a given Make/Model of car. They rate a sample population of that car. So guess what.....that probably means there are some worse than the rating, and some better. Some people call this a normal distribution of a sample. You have owned 1 Park Avenue, so you automatically come to the conclusion that ALL Park Avenues are pieces of shit? Well, I tend to go with a service like Edmunds that tests a sample of multiple cars to come to their conclusions. You have had bad luck with GM/Buick/Park Avenues, and if you never buy another GM vehicle because of it, more power to you. |
04-14-2004, 03:45 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
|
SOme of the best conversations take place on these tangents
__________________
You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] |
04-14-2004, 04:53 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Crazy
|
But anyway, so I have about a month to prepare. It's come down to
2001 BMW 330Ci/C 2000 BMW 328Ci/C 1999 BMW M3 How are the M3s? Are they high maintainance? What are some tactics used by used car salesmen? How can I get the best deal? What should I be looking for? As usual, thanks in advance. |
04-14-2004, 05:35 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
|
Quote:
Yep, a plastic intake manifold. They put plastic intake manifolds on there cause they are CHEAP, less than half the cost of a die cast aluminum intake manifold. The mezmos at GM designed the exhaust port from the E.G.R. valve running right into the plastic intake manifold beside the water jacket that pipes water into the the throttle body to preheat the air coming into the plenum. Over time, the plastic suffers from thermal fatigue and eventually cracks and when that happens, the coolant floods the crankcase, and gets inhaled into the intake stream. Two things then happen, 1. you suffer "hydro-lock" where the incompressable liquid essentially stops your motor very quickly and bends your connecting rods, or 2. when the coolant mixes with the oil, the resulting viscousity break down causes your big end connecting rods to start to glow (they aren't supposed to do that) Either way, you (read me) need a new engine in a perfectly well maintained car at 70,000 miles. If the Mezmo engineers at GM had even THOUGHT of putting a ceramic colar around the EGR stove pipe that leads from the lower intake manifold into the upper intake manifold, this wouldn't happen, OR if the mezmo engineers at GM even THOUGHT of piping the EGR somewhere else, this wouldn't happen. You think I am the only one who has suffered this problem???? WRONG BOB, there are tens of thousands of us. Add to this a myriad of other problems and you have a P.O.S. And I used to LOVE GM's. Not after I have seen how they are building cars now, and the way they treated me. You should never assume anything about someone's automotive knowledge. They may not be mechanics, but they may also have been laying under cars since they were 8 years old and done 2 frame offs, and rebuilt several other motors. In the end, I just sued the bastards. |
|
04-15-2004, 12:56 AM | #19 (permalink) |
Still searching...
Location: NorCal For Life
|
To bad30th, you make some excellent points. I would like to make some counterpoints though. As far as expensive parts, you are correct. However, you can buy BMW parts cheaper online than anywhere else, without sacrificing quality. Bavarian Autosport and BMPD are good places to look. Second of all, I believe that BMWs have less major problems. This is from my experience as a BMW owner. I was the 3rd owner of a 1987 325e. Besides brakes and water pumps, read normal wear and tear parts, my car needed only one major repair. This was to the worn out clutch. It was major because a new flywheel was needed, too. My car has 200,000 miles and it has never had a major engine rebuild or anything. On the other hand, my Mom's Lincoln needed an engine rebuild at 60,000 miles. In my experience BMWs dont have as many major problems when compared to other cars. Repairs can be expensive, but that is partially due to the fact that BMWs are not supposed to be like Hondas, meaning everyone can own one. You pay to be in the club. Also, the stock performance of BMWs is not matched by american and japanese cars, unless you are willing to pay as much as, or more than a Bimmer.
__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein |
04-15-2004, 07:29 AM | #20 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: [insert witty play on location field here]
|
james t kirk:
We have been thru this before. GM is not the only company using plastics to save money. Why did you turn JohnS72's BMW thread into an 'I Hate GM' thread?? Completely unnecessary of you since, well, we have been thru this before.. And I repeat, you got one lemon of a car, and now all GM is shit? My parents owned 3 GM vehicles so equipped with the 3.8L V6, plasitic intake. And guess what......not one problem, after 300,000 or so combined miles. And keep in mind, these were company cars, so they got the shit beat out of them. But I guess those were probably the only 3 good 3.8L cars in the bunch.... madsenj37: Thank you for starting your response like a normal mature human being, instead of "Sorry, wrong and wrong," or "GM have to have THE WORST engineering quality on the road today." It makes for a much better discussion when people dont begin their replys like their word is absolute truth. I thank you. I was not aware you could buy parts online relatively cheap. There ya go JohnS72! Sad thing is I am sure most of the general public isnt aware of that either.... Quote:
Off Topic: By the way madsenj37, how are you liking that RX-8 so far? |
|
04-15-2004, 10:19 AM | #21 (permalink) |
Still searching...
Location: NorCal For Life
|
I love my RX-8. The way it drives, handles and the smoothness of it. The rotoary is the smoothest engine I have ever driven. It has to be one of my favorites. It is probably tied with inline engines. It is on par with BMWs. I do miss the torque of the inline six though. I recomend BMWs because of their awesome power from teh inline engines. And BMWs have a nice conservative, yet slightly aggressive look. I never once got pulled over in my BMW, but with my RX-8, I got pulled over in the first six months. I think the look of the cars has something to do with it personally. The car I still lust over is the M3. I have always wanted one. Even owning an RX-8 I still want one. BMW has a hold on me.
__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein Last edited by madsenj37; 04-15-2004 at 10:21 AM.. |
04-15-2004, 05:23 PM | #23 (permalink) |
Loser
|
for $23k you can get a used 2003 G35 Coupe 6 speed with with 280 hp and money brembo brakes and stock suspension that will shred twisties with the bavarian best. a bulletproof VQ 3.5 engine and reliability with 6 disc changer, nav, heated seats, dual climate contol ect... luxuries...plus...its just plain gorgeous!
i could be biased...but i shopped the bimmer for a while and after one test drive in the G35 coupe and all of my research and lust for the bimmer faded instantly. i am now proud owner of a 2004 G35 coupe 6MT with a couple of aftermarket goodies that have me sitting just over 300hp. |
04-15-2004, 06:00 PM | #25 (permalink) | |
Still searching...
Location: NorCal For Life
|
Quote:
__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein |
|
04-15-2004, 06:07 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Still searching...
Location: NorCal For Life
|
One other thought, are you interested in all wheel drive? The 3 series has an all wheel drive option on all engine models except the M. It is designated by an x after the i, ex// 325ix. It is a real wheel dominant all wheel drive system.
And yes the 328 was replaced by the 330. If you are into mods, look into the mods for each model. That may influence what you buy. Bavarian Autosport, BMPD and Dinan are good places to look to get an idea. BMWs are expensive to mod.
__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein |
04-15-2004, 06:30 PM | #27 (permalink) | |
Loser
|
Quote:
|
|
04-16-2004, 07:36 PM | #28 (permalink) | |||||
Insane
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
bad30th: I dont see why you feel the need to bully every post in this thread. Granted, you have some experience, but so do some other people. I dont see why after you got proved wrong once, that you need to be right ever single time after that. I wont even challenge anymore of your statements, because I dont have the time to write any lenthy, flame filled comebacks, unlike you. |
|||||
04-17-2004, 02:10 AM | #29 (permalink) | |
Still searching...
Location: NorCal For Life
|
Quote:
__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein |
|
04-17-2004, 01:30 PM | #30 (permalink) | |||||||||
Insane
Location: [insert witty play on location field here]
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mr. james t kirk went off about a completely unrelated tangent that we have debated before, and was, in my opinion (and that of the original poster's, I'm sure) completely unnecessary. In my response to your first post, you'll notice I started with "I will kindly disagee," and then went on to include "no offense meant," and I really didnt. I was simply rebutting some of your absolute statements with my own experience with working on the cars and talking to some of the average owners. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maturity. Its a wonderful virtue. I am done with you, sir. |
|||||||||
04-17-2004, 02:12 PM | #31 (permalink) | |
Her Jay
Location: Ontario for now....
|
Quote:
Oh yeah I like both cars equally.
__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder |
|
04-21-2004, 05:36 AM | #35 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
|
Quote:
My opinion is is that that is simply not the case. You brought up GM, not me, and I just couldn't let it go. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. The GM of 2004 is NOT the GM of old. BMW's have gotten better, GM's have gotten worse. GM's cars are now designed around a 5 year throw away lifespan like your average VCR. No GM can come close to the quality, reliablility, styling, performance, or engineering of a BMW. A Grand Prix is not even in the same league as a BMW. Last edited by james t kirk; 04-21-2004 at 05:47 AM.. |
|
04-21-2004, 05:41 AM | #36 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
|
Quote:
The G35 is an awesome piece of automotive engineering from what I have read, and those I have talked to. I am seriously considering dumping my P.O.S. GM turd for one very soon. My only problem is that I love the look of the coupe, but I want all wheel drive which is only available in a sedan. Are there any rumours about AWD in the coupe do you know?? |
|
Tags |
328, 330, bmw |
|
|