Need advice on situation - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Curving_Edge · 09-24-2003, 04:35 AM

OK my fellow TFP'ers I need some help.

About 4 months ago, I bought a car from a junkyard around here for $300. Everything was good on it, except the title. So I bought it, with the understanding that they would do whatever they could to get the title, as they said they would.

Fast-forward four months, they finally got the title. But now, they want me to give them $60 for the title, and they said if i dont want to do that, they will buy the car back from me.

Heres is where the legal side gets sticky. Legally, the car was never theirs to sell, because they didnt have a title, or a possesory lean. they sold it anyway, and i still have the receipt, so legally you would think, they are obligated to give me the title. But, I dont know if that is true or not, I am not very good with legal matters.

The car is a fairly rare car, a 1980 Datsun 280ZX 2+2 Hardtop, and selling it back to them is not an option for me. But I cant register or insure the car without a title. So please, give me any advice you have!!

Thanks

yournamehere · 09-24-2003, 06:13 AM

If owning that car is that important to you, what's the problem with spending another $60?

If it's a financial matter, you're going to be in for a shock the first time you need parts for that car, I'm afraid. It's going to cost you many times more than what you paid for it to keep it running. If that's going to put a strain on your finances, selling it back to them right now might make sense .

If you think it's an ethical, or legal matter - perhaps they incurred some costs while obtaining the title? Just the fact that they're willing to buy the car back from you suggests they're trying to be fair - they could just as well have said, "$60 - take it or leave it." Although - we all know that having the car <i>and</i> the title makes the whole package a lot more valuable.

Doesn't seem like a very big deal to me - pay the $60, and next time:
Get it in Writing

Sounds like it's still a pretty sweet deal for $360.

Curving_Edge · 09-24-2003, 07:49 AM

At this point, it isnt really so much a financial matter, its mor just the principle of the thing. I not stingy with money, its just that i already paid them for the car. and the title is part of the car. It just amazes me what people will do to make a buck.

By the way, keeping the car running shouldnt be too expensive, Its a Datsun (nissan). ;-)

Thanks for the advice, I am leaving ot have a talk with the company now.

Cynthetiq · 09-24-2003, 08:22 AM

*moved to tilted motors*

Peryn · 09-24-2003, 09:47 AM

First off, its a nice car. Except for the hardtop (didn't know they made a ZX hartop) and the 2+2 ( i presonally think they look much uglier, and they are heavier, though not much). I have an 82 280ZX, and finding parts for them in a junkyard is one of the easiest things ever. Unless its a turbo

Anyway, i think that you should pay the money. I dont think this is a fight worth fighting just because of the principles. You knew they didn't have the title for it when you bought it. You knew they would have to try and get it. You dont have any idea, however, how much it cost them to get it. It very well may have cost twice that to get records from the DMV, track it down, get copies and do all the legal work. They could have told you "We cant find or do anything about the title. You're on your own to track it down". In which case im sure you would have gladly paid 60 bucks for someone else to find it and deal with all the legalities.

In the end, it pay it and chalk it up to labor costs. i think its worth it, though they probably should have told you about the possible cost earlier, and you should have inquired about teh costs to get the title.

FastShark85 · 09-24-2003, 11:01 AM

You'd probably have to pay that money for a new title anyway. Sounds like they've gone through the trouble of getting it for you. You ought to just give them the cash.

RotEx · 09-24-2003, 12:16 PM

Id pay them, its not a big deal man.

they got it for ya didnt they?

Sheeze, its a scrapyard, be happy they didnt say, take the car, get your own ticket, you DO know how much a new ticket costs right?

after tax, fee's and everything else involved it'd be at LEAST 120$

Astrocloud · 09-24-2003, 12:21 PM

I have no comment on the legal matter but rather on the car (1980 Datsun 280ZX 2+2 Hardtop). I used to own one of these. It was a fun quick car and I would pay them the extra bucks.

I've heard of people even collecting these cars. Perhaps you could get it in good enough shape that you could sell it.

Scorps · 09-24-2003, 02:56 PM

Ok this may sound dumb but what is a title?

you mean Owner ship?

Pragma · 09-24-2003, 03:21 PM

A car's title is a legal document saying "____ owns this car" and has information such as the address and phone number of the owner, a description of the car (colour, manufacturer, model, body style, and VIN).

You need a title in order to be able to get license plates for a car, to prove that you own the car.

Curving_Edge · 09-24-2003, 06:58 PM

Well, I went down there today, and the owner is being a major asshole. He legally could not sell me the car without the title, so legally he was required to get one for me. Now that he has one, and I have the bill of sale saying I own the car, he must give the title to me. legally. Tomorrow I am having my attorney draft up a letter telling him what laws he would be breaking by trying to charge me more for something that should have been done before. My attorneys advice was if this doesnt work, pay them the money and then sue them for the money back and punitive damages. By the way, the owner of the lot jacked the price up to over $150 for the title now. I may have thought about paying $60, but not $150. plus, the lawyers services are free, through my work.

And to the guy that said that the 2+2's are ugly and that he doesnt like the hardtop models, hardtop means its got more support, which means better cornereing, and i personally think the 2 seaters look unfinished, like they just end at a point. But to each his own.

RotEx · 09-24-2003, 07:16 PM

Sue? Punative damages? wtf? sounds like alot of hassle for something that you should have just given him the 60$ for in the first place.

Curving_Edge · 09-24-2003, 07:42 PM

I couldnt give him $60, he raised the price to $140 before I ever had a chance to pay him $60. Yes it is alot of hassle, but I dont want this guy to try and screw over any more people, I want him to learn a lesson.

rider6061 · 09-25-2003, 07:01 AM

if legal services are free...go for it

lawyers can always always ruin a good day. make junkyard boy's day suck like a Hoover!

Curving_Edge · 09-25-2003, 07:22 AM

lol, thats what I am planning on doing rider. We went to visit the lawyer today, and he said that he would write a letter to the lot telling them what laws he is breaking. He said something about the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, which sounds pretty serious to me. My guess is that he wont respond to the letter. If that is what happens then I have to go pay him for the title, and then sue him to get the money back, plus he will also pay whatever court fees are associated with it. My lawyer said that there is no way i could lose, so if ifgure even if i have to go that route, then he will still lose good money.

It feels so good to win, this is like the battle of good Vs evil.

Peryn · 09-25-2003, 09:27 AM

ehh....i dunno. in my opinion it doesnt really sound like good vs eveil...

You buy the car knowing it doesn't have the title.
You buy it knowing he shoulldn't be able to sell a car he doesn't own
You refuse to pay for labor and titleing fees in getting that title.
You sue him

i dunno....he didn't tell you about the fees earlier, but other than that it seems to me he was justified in charging you and your gonna bully him into giving it to you for free. Well, that being said, i dont know the laws in your state. When you get more information and specifics about the law being broken, plese let me know, i may be wrong and totally misinformed.

Curving_Edge · 09-25-2003, 10:03 AM

well, the one thing you said in there that isnt true is that i didnt know he wasnt legally allowed to sell the car when i bought it. I talked to the Kansas DMV after i had already bought it. But he knew he wasnt allowed to sell it, and sold it to me anyway, knowing full well that i intended to restore the vehicle and drive it on public roads. he also told me he would do whatever he could to get me the title, which he did do, after i owned the car for four months. Not one time until he already had the title did he mention any fees. I have been storing this vehicle in my garage for 4 months, and he has been sitting on his ass for 3 of those months, not doing anything about the title. I had to have the DMV call him to even get him to start moving on getting the title. It is very frustrating.

I am trying to find a copy of the Kansas Consumer protection act, when i do find it, i will post what it says.

I already paid for the car, therefore i already paid for the title. There is no "bullying" involved, just common sense.

FastShark85 · 09-25-2003, 11:20 AM

If you have a document showing the car has been sold to you, call the DMV and ask if you can get your own replacement title.

You're going to waste LOT of time if you actually go to court over this.

Curving_Edge · 09-25-2003, 07:08 PM

the DMV already said that I cant get my own title without a possessory lean, which they didnt give me when i bought the car. So I cant get my own title.I am not too worried about the time, I have plenty.

shakran · 09-26-2003, 07:05 PM

ok, I'm gonna dissent. You should not pay them the $60 because you're playing into their scam.

"Let's sell this thing that we don't have a title for to some sucker for $300. If we find the title we'll trick him into giving the car back to us so we can sell it for some REAL money."

Why you'd want to encourage them pulling this crap in the future is beyond me, so I personally would not give them the money. What I WOULD do is call the state's attorney general office and lodge a complaint. See, you paid them $300 for the car. That means you now own the car. They must legally transfer the title of the car to you. They are now attempting to breach the contract. They cannot legally do that without YOUR consent.

The good part about complaining to the attorney general is that he'll go after the bastards and it won't cost you a dime.

09-24-2003, 04:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	Need advice on situation OK my fellow TFP'ers I need some help. About 4 months ago, I bought a car from a junkyard around here for $300. Everything was good on it, except the title. So I bought it, with the understanding that they would do whatever they could to get the title, as they said they would. Fast-forward four months, they finally got the title. But now, they want me to give them $60 for the title, and they said if i dont want to do that, they will buy the car back from me. Heres is where the legal side gets sticky. Legally, the car was never theirs to sell, because they didnt have a title, or a possesory lean. they sold it anyway, and i still have the receipt, so legally you would think, they are obligated to give me the title. But, I dont know if that is true or not, I am not very good with legal matters. The car is a fairly rare car, a 1980 Datsun 280ZX 2+2 Hardtop, and selling it back to them is not an option for me. But I cant register or insure the car without a title. So please, give me any advice you have!! Thanks

09-24-2003, 06:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	If owning that car is that important to you, what's the problem with spending another $60? If it's a financial matter, you're going to be in for a shock the first time you need parts for that car, I'm afraid. It's going to cost you many times more than what you paid for it to keep it running. If that's going to put a strain on your finances, selling it back to them right now might make sense . If you think it's an ethical, or legal matter - perhaps they incurred some costs while obtaining the title? Just the fact that they're willing to buy the car back from you suggests they're trying to be fair - they could just as well have said, "$60 - take it or leave it." Although - we all know that having the car <i>and</i> the title makes the whole package a lot more valuable. Doesn't seem like a very big deal to me - pay the $60, and next time: Get it in Writing Sounds like it's still a pretty sweet deal for $360. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

09-24-2003, 08:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	moved to tilted motors __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-24-2003, 09:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	First off, its a nice car. Except for the hardtop (didn't know they made a ZX hartop) and the 2+2 ( i presonally think they look much uglier, and they are heavier, though not much). I have an 82 280ZX, and finding parts for them in a junkyard is one of the easiest things ever. Unless its a turbo Anyway, i think that you should pay the money. I dont think this is a fight worth fighting just because of the principles. You knew they didn't have the title for it when you bought it. You knew they would have to try and get it. You dont have any idea, however, how much it cost them to get it. It very well may have cost twice that to get records from the DMV, track it down, get copies and do all the legal work. They could have told you "We cant find or do anything about the title. You're on your own to track it down". In which case im sure you would have gladly paid 60 bucks for someone else to find it and deal with all the legalities. In the end, it pay it and chalk it up to labor costs. i think its worth it, though they probably should have told you about the possible cost earlier, and you should have inquired about teh costs to get the title. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-24-2003, 12:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
RotEx Crazy	Id pay them, its not a big deal man. they got it for ya didnt they? Sheeze, its a scrapyard, be happy they didnt say, take the car, get your own ticket, you DO know how much a new ticket costs right? after tax, fee's and everything else involved it'd be at LEAST 120$ __________________ everytime i turn around it is an illusion.

09-24-2003, 07:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	At this point, it isnt really so much a financial matter, its mor just the principle of the thing. I not stingy with money, its just that i already paid them for the car. and the title is part of the car. It just amazes me what people will do to make a buck. By the way, keeping the car running shouldnt be too expensive, Its a Datsun (nissan). ;-) Thanks for the advice, I am leaving ot have a talk with the company now.

09-24-2003, 11:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
FastShark85 Psycho Location: In the garage, under the car.	You'd probably have to pay that money for a new title anyway. Sounds like they've gone through the trouble of getting it for you. You ought to just give them the cash.

09-24-2003, 12:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	I have no comment on the legal matter but rather on the car (1980 Datsun 280ZX 2+2 Hardtop). I used to own one of these. It was a fun quick car and I would pay them the extra bucks. I've heard of people even collecting these cars. Perhaps you could get it in good enough shape that you could sell it.

09-24-2003, 02:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	Ok this may sound dumb but what is a title? you mean Owner ship? __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

09-24-2003, 03:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	A car's title is a legal document saying "____ owns this car" and has information such as the address and phone number of the owner, a description of the car (colour, manufacturer, model, body style, and VIN). You need a title in order to be able to get license plates for a car, to prove that you own the car. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

09-24-2003, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	Well, I went down there today, and the owner is being a major asshole. He legally could not sell me the car without the title, so legally he was required to get one for me. Now that he has one, and I have the bill of sale saying I own the car, he must give the title to me. legally. Tomorrow I am having my attorney draft up a letter telling him what laws he would be breaking by trying to charge me more for something that should have been done before. My attorneys advice was if this doesnt work, pay them the money and then sue them for the money back and punitive damages. By the way, the owner of the lot jacked the price up to over $150 for the title now. I may have thought about paying $60, but not $150. plus, the lawyers services are free, through my work. And to the guy that said that the 2+2's are ugly and that he doesnt like the hardtop models, hardtop means its got more support, which means better cornereing, and i personally think the 2 seaters look unfinished, like they just end at a point. But to each his own. Last edited by Curving_Edge; 09-24-2003 at 07:08 PM..

09-24-2003, 07:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
RotEx Crazy	Sue? Punative damages? wtf? sounds like alot of hassle for something that you should have just given him the 60$ for in the first place. __________________ everytime i turn around it is an illusion.

09-24-2003, 07:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	I couldnt give him $60, he raised the price to $140 before I ever had a chance to pay him $60. Yes it is alot of hassle, but I dont want this guy to try and screw over any more people, I want him to learn a lesson.

09-25-2003, 07:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
rider6061 Crazy Location: oklahoma	if legal services are free...go for it lawyers can always always ruin a good day. make junkyard boy's day suck like a Hoover! __________________ Is This Thing On?

09-25-2003, 07:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	lol, thats what I am planning on doing rider. We went to visit the lawyer today, and he said that he would write a letter to the lot telling them what laws he is breaking. He said something about the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, which sounds pretty serious to me. My guess is that he wont respond to the letter. If that is what happens then I have to go pay him for the title, and then sue him to get the money back, plus he will also pay whatever court fees are associated with it. My lawyer said that there is no way i could lose, so if ifgure even if i have to go that route, then he will still lose good money. It feels so good to win, this is like the battle of good Vs evil.

09-25-2003, 09:27 AM	#16 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	ehh....i dunno. in my opinion it doesnt really sound like good vs eveil... You buy the car knowing it doesn't have the title. You buy it knowing he shoulldn't be able to sell a car he doesn't own You refuse to pay for labor and titleing fees in getting that title. You sue him i dunno....he didn't tell you about the fees earlier, but other than that it seems to me he was justified in charging you and your gonna bully him into giving it to you for free. Well, that being said, i dont know the laws in your state. When you get more information and specifics about the law being broken, plese let me know, i may be wrong and totally misinformed. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-25-2003, 10:03 AM	#17 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	well, the one thing you said in there that isnt true is that i didnt know he wasnt legally allowed to sell the car when i bought it. I talked to the Kansas DMV after i had already bought it. But he knew he wasnt allowed to sell it, and sold it to me anyway, knowing full well that i intended to restore the vehicle and drive it on public roads. he also told me he would do whatever he could to get me the title, which he did do, after i owned the car for four months. Not one time until he already had the title did he mention any fees. I have been storing this vehicle in my garage for 4 months, and he has been sitting on his ass for 3 of those months, not doing anything about the title. I had to have the DMV call him to even get him to start moving on getting the title. It is very frustrating. I am trying to find a copy of the Kansas Consumer protection act, when i do find it, i will post what it says. I already paid for the car, therefore i already paid for the title. There is no "bullying" involved, just common sense.

09-25-2003, 11:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
FastShark85 Psycho Location: In the garage, under the car.	If you have a document showing the car has been sold to you, call the DMV and ask if you can get your own replacement title. You're going to waste LOT of time if you actually go to court over this.

09-25-2003, 07:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
Curving_Edge Upright Location: Kansas	the DMV already said that I cant get my own title without a possessory lean, which they didnt give me when i bought the car. So I cant get my own title.I am not too worried about the time, I have plenty.

09-26-2003, 07:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	ok, I'm gonna dissent. You should not pay them the $60 because you're playing into their scam. "Let's sell this thing that we don't have a title for to some sucker for $300. If we find the title we'll trick him into giving the car back to us so we can sell it for some REAL money." Why you'd want to encourage them pulling this crap in the future is beyond me, so I personally would not give them the money. What I WOULD do is call the state's attorney general office and lodge a complaint. See, you paid them $300 for the car. That means you now own the car. They must legally transfer the title of the car to you. They are now attempting to breach the contract. They cannot legally do that without YOUR consent. The good part about complaining to the attorney general is that he'll go after the bastards and it won't cost you a dime.