abaya

Ktspktsp and I are headed to Iceland for a year in 2 weeks, so I'm trying to sell my used 1999 Ford Escort as quickly as possible. I put it on Craigslist last week for Philadelphia, but haven't had a lot of takers... two people seemed to be the type who buy cars, fix them, and mark up the price to sell them again, and they were pretty rude. One person seems nice enough, but is concerned about the WA license plate.

I'm starting to worry that no one will buy it for what I think it's worth... but I have a problem with honesty, because I can't bear to lie to people about what might be wrong with the car (e.g. it needs front alignment and tires, and a new windshield). I would feel terribly guilty for not being entirely upfront about everything when selling it... but it seems like I need to learn how to lie a little, in order to get rid of it.

Does anyone have any other tips for selling cars? Are there better places to advertise than Craigslist?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

The_Jazz

OK, first let's clear this up - do you actually know something is wrong with the car or do you just suspect it? There's a big difference. Huge, actually. If you actually know it, you absolutely need to disclose it. If not, you don't need to disclose it unless you're directly asked about it - it's called salesmanship. Anyone that doesn't either have a mechanic do an inspection or isn't a mechanic themselves gets what they deserve when buying a used car.

You seem to be a little hung up on the people that are going to "flip" your car after they fix it up. I think you need to eliminate that worry. If you can't or won't do that yourself, they deserve to make the profit off of any investment in the car that they make.

There are all sorts of local bargain papers to advertise in, and a lot of them are car-specific or have large car sections. I would check a local convenience store or gas station the next time you're in one.

You also may want to do a little research to make sure that what you THINK the car is worth is what everyone else KNOWS its worth. There are several free websites that will let you do this quickly and easily if you have the basic information in front of you. You can google "blue book" and find one pretty much immediately.

Good luck!

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kurty[B]

I just sold a car. While everyone told me to list it for more than I did, I knew I wanted to sell it quickly. I listed it for what I would like, but was ready to bargain quite a bit to sell the vehicle quickly.

Craigslist kept my e-mail busy with one-time e-mailers, but no responses after describing the vehicle. One person called off craigslist offering a complete lowball estimate.

I listed the vehicle in my local paper, and had two serious buyers. Both took the vehicle to their mechanic (laying out on the table any problems I knew and did not know, and the nice thing about the mechanic is they both agreed the price on the vehicle was fair). My theory, is if both buyer and seller have a smile on their face when the vehicle changes hands it is a successful sale. I'd say list the vehicle in a local paper, or one of those catalogs at a gas station. Take the $25 or $50 hit for the ad, and look and see what other vehicles like yours are selling for (sometimes you have to go lower than the others when you need to sell the vehicle quickly).

abaya

Thanks for the tips, folks. What I know for sure is wrong with the car is that the front wheels have been wearing unevenly, which means they need to be replaced and need to have an alignment. A mechanic told me this and told me what it would cost, so I feel I can be upfront about that.

There are also some small things like the crack in the passenger-side windshield (not in the driver's field of vision whatsoever), the e-brake seeming to not be working (it's a manual, so I park it in gear on hills), and the interior having some stains on the floor/mats. But do I need to disclose those things? They're not major problems, in my book... just the front alignment thing (even though I've been driving it like that for quite a while), right?

I was getting a bit alarmed since last week, for a few days, the clutch sounded like a bunch of rats had gotten inside and were scratching away... but it was only temporary. I was getting ready to take it to a mechanic, but now I don't know if I should mention that to buyers or not.

Also, I've looked at the Kelley Blue Book and decided on a price from which I was willing to bargain down. I had what I thought was a decent price (a couple of hundred below the "Good" rating price, since it needs some repairs), but then a dealer called me up and said I was asking for way too much, etc. :P So that was discouraging.

I don't mind necessarily that people are going to "flip" my car... just that they would be willing to pay a decent price to me in the first place. I understand they're going to have to do repairs, but as my dad says (he's a fix-it man), all they have to do is pay for the parts and do the labor themselves, which makes the cost very low to them.

Anyway, took some interior photos and am going to add those to Craigslist today, and will check out a local paper as well. Sounds like that is the way to go, so thanks for that! (I thought no one read print classifieds anymore.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

shakran

you need to disclose the ebrake for sure. That's a safety issue that you could be liable for if someone needs to use it and you didn't tell them it was broken.

As far as what your dad said, that's not quite true. Figure on knocking off the cost of the repairs. If I buy a car and it needs work, the cost of the parts plus labor comes off the car or I don't buy it. My time isn't any less valuable than the mechanic who I could pay to do it.

What are you trying to sell the car for, and what is its mileage? From what you've said, you're probably not going to get what you consider to be a decent price for it. You're talking about a 9 year old ford econobox (1999 cars were bought in 1998) that needs a fair amount of TLC. Unless there's something special about it that you haven't told us, figure under a thousand at best.

Tech

one thing that can be overlooked by personal sellers is to CLEAN the car. clean it WELL. inside and out. make it look like you love it and didn't beat on it, and that will help buyers not wonder what else might be broken from your "abuse" on it. its much better if you can get a buyer to think to themselves "well yeah it's got a few things here but overall it looks like it was treated well" vs. "man it has all these things wrong, i dunno... it's definately used"

good luck

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desal75

I hate to say this but if your trying to get more than 500 for it you are probably starting a little high. I know it is a different scenario but as a trade in that car would have almost no value at all.

Do you have any friends or family looking for cheap transportation? If so maybe sell it to one of them for a fair price.

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abaya

Wow, now I'm really feeling like crap!! Damn, I drive this car every day and it has never given me problems... other than just plain old age. I think it's a great car and it gets 30+ mpg (and that's just city!)... interior and exterior look very clean, no accidents ever... damn, is it really that worthless??

Anyway, it's 89K miles, and I was hoping for around $2000... but apparently that's too optimistic. The one serious person said it wasn't worth more than $1600, so I was starting to think along those lines... but my dad is a real stickler and says it's worth at least $2000, he drove it across the country (WA to PA) a couple of years ago and loves the thing. I do, too.

I don't get it. If I wasn't moving, I'd definitely keep the car, and put in the $1000 or so to fix it. But you folks are telling me that it's not even worth $1000... but to me, the car looks great and has a few easily-fixed snags. Am I just totally naive?

EDIT: For what it's worth, I've disclosed everything that I am aware of (e.g. front alignment, e-brake, windshield). All of that would take less than a $1000 to fix, and I'd do it myself if I had time and if I thought it would raise the price of the car... but my dad says there's no point in doing that, since someone else can fix it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

kurty[B]

With that many miles (89K is not bad at all for an 8-9 year old car) I don't see why you could not get $2K for it. If you really need to sell it, and sell it quickly, taking a low of $1600 may need to be done. Really depends on whether you want to get rid of it ASAP, or get as much money as you can out of it.

abaya

Well, we are leaving the country at the end of the month... in two weeks. Is that enough time to ask for a decent price on the car? I listed it at $2300, intending to drop it to $2000 under bargaining circumstances, but no one is biting yet...

Thanks, btw...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

smooth

$1600 is the price I had in mind when I was reading through the thread.
What do I think you should ethically disclose?

well, for starters you have no idea what the clutch noise was. it could have been a bunch of rats for all you know! leave that out
the windshield, and really anything visual, is not your responsibility to disclose. it's the buyer's responsibility to observe.

that holds true for the alignment. that's one of the first things I personally observe when I buy a used car. but it's no big deal. alignments are around $50 or less if you've got a coupon and they come with normal wear and tear. that's not something "wrong" with the car any more so than you disclosing you've got worn wiper blades or a half tank of gas.

the tread wear is visible, the wear pattern is visible--you're not required by any standard I'd go by (moral, ethical, or legal) to explain everything you see is wrong with the car. wear is assumed, or the person would be paying 9K for a new one...yeah?

the e-brake. I'd say something along the lines of it's out of adjustment rather than it's broke. because, it actually is out of adjustment or the pads are worn. That's pretty rare though, because normal drivers only use the e-brake when they're stopped. most are self-adjusting, so try this around an empty parking lot: drive in reverse and put the brakes on a few times. See if it adjusts itself back up. or hubby gets to crawl under the car and he'll see a little hole in the rear wheel backing and in that little hole he will see what looks like a tiny gear. spin that gear with a flathead screwdriver and the e-brake pads will tighten back up. when all is said and done, though, it's minor and a brake shop will do it free of charge when you pay them $50 for the front and rear pads.

now, the cable could have broke or the last person to replace the brakes might have put them on backwards or lost a spring. all of those might be true, but you don't know and none of them are significant, but will give a lowballing prospective buyer reason to drive your price into the mud.

by the way, stop worrying because no one will buy your car for what you think it's worth...does that make you feel better New cars are the worst investment one can make.

BUT, if you want to maximize your chances of selling that kind of car, there are two places you can almost guarantee a generated sale: high school or college

high school: the add should be geared toward it's past reliability. the perfect time to mention that it's been cross-country. it's "ugly" to a teen, but perfect for the parents. inexpensive, safe, and well maintained (reliable).

college: cheap, reliable, gets good gas, perfect commuter
it's not pretty, but it's not supposed to be
it goes from point A to point B and does that well
it's $1600, half your loan dispursement, and will get you around until you earn that degree and get that new job.


I like the idea of cleaning the car...inside and out. powerwash that engine bay, take care of the stains with a good shampooing, and vacuum that sucker out. but DON'T even think of putting any money into it. when you drop $1000 into your car it will still be worth...$1600 to someone who's looking for a ford escort. oh, and a radio, even a cheap one, as long as music comes out goes a long way to getting your asking price.

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desal75

I'm sorry if my earlier post made you sad about the vehicle but as someone who sells cars everyday i really don't see someone buying it for a quarter of what it was new almost ten years ago.

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The Man in Black fled across the desert and the Gunslinger followed.

shakran

your blue book value ballpark is around 2000. I dunno where smooth shops but it's very rare to get an alignment for 50 bucks. So i'd dock you $100 for that, and $100 for new tires. Then $100-500 for the windshield (depends entirely on the insurance situation in PA - -some states mandate that insurance pays for new windshields, which means the glass companies all drive the price through the roof). Either you fix the e-brake now or as a buyer I automatically assume a $200 repair bill. so we've got 2 grand knocked down to 1500 or 1100 depending on windshield prices.

abaya

Hmm, there's a lack of consistency here... guess I thought the "Fair" bluebook price accounted for the need for repairs and new tires (since it's obviously not in Good or Excellent condition, which KBB tells me is closer to $3000... how do you explain that?), and then I dropped it down from there a couple of hundred just to make it more attractive.

If this helps at all... as I said, body is absolutely clean, not even a single chip in the paint to report. Interior has some coffee stains on the rugs, that's about it. I vacuumed it all out and it looks pretty damn good, if you ask me, and I still drive it every day with no problems. Also has a single CD player and a decent sound system, which must do something for the price... ?

Is it really $200 to fix the e-brake, btw? I haven't had that checked out/quoted, so good to know.

I'll probably re-post the car on Craigslist tomorrow, possibly with a more reasonable price... $2000 instead of $2300? But then I'd have to barter down, most likely. Hmph... still confused about what the "fair price" is here.

Oh, and lastly... the damn thing has WA plates (in PA), though I've been told by AAA that this is not a problem since all used car buyers have to get new plates anyway. But I wonder if anyone has had experience doing this and can confirm that it's true?

Thanks all, for the help. Really appreciate the informed opinion.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

shakran

you have to be realistic about what the buyer is thinking. He sees the bluebook value. Then he deducts the repairs from there. You MIGHT find someone who's more generous with their money, but I highly doubt it.

As for the plates - if a buyer is worried about that he's worrying about the wrong thing. I don't care what the license plates are. I care about the car. Is it worth the price, does the carfax check out, and was it stolen? If the answer to those three questions come out right, then I'll buy it.

Is it really $200 to fix the e-brake? I have no idea, but if I test drive it and you can't tell me what's wrong with it, I'm going to assume the worst, and that means I'm knocking off $200 unless there's evidence that it's not that expensive

abaya

Shakran... aren't there 3-4 different KBB values, depending on the *condition* of the car? I saw $2900 for an excellent condition car, $2500 for good, and I'd guess around $2000 for fair. I thought those prices took into account the need for repairs, considering "condition" and all. Maybe I am just wrong.

So I don't need to worry about the plates, that's good. But it also means it has not been inspected in PA this year, which is bad. :P

desal... we bought this car new in 1999 for close to $12,000... and I'm not trying to get a quarter of that, I'm trying to get 1/6 of that which I think is reasonable with 89K and 8 years. Maybe I'm just wrong.

I'd like to post again above $2000 but with the intent of selling it around $1800-$2000... does that sound fair yet?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

desal75

We are all putting way too much faith in KBB's value. They don't buy and sell cars, they just speculate on values.

__________________
The Man in Black fled across the desert and the Gunslinger followed.

shakran

Yes there are, but I'm telling you the reality of what the buyer is going to be thinking. He's gonna look at that KBB value and consider that his starting point for talking you down UNLESS you have a rare or really cool car. Unfortunately, the Escort does not qualify for that exception.


Ahhh inspections - - - I didn't realize PA was one of those annoying states. Well, try to sell it, maybe your buyer won't think about getting it inspected



Fair has nothing to do with it. If you can sell it for 2 grand, that's great, and there's no fair or not fair about it. Realistically, however, I think you'll have trouble getting someone to pay that much for an Escort. But you never know. You might get someone who just loves the Escort and is willing to pay that much.

abaya

Hmm, alright. Maybe I should post $2000 as my starting price and be willing to go from there, I guess.

Blah, I´m never owning a car again, lol.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

laconic1

I really don't think $2000 for an eight year old car with less than 100k miles in decent shape is asking too much. However with the park brake not working right and the cracked windshield, and not having a current state inspect that can give someone a reason to lowball you. How much does a state inspect cost? We don't have them in Colorado, but working for an extended warranty company I deal with shops all the time that do state inspections, and the state inspection is basically a license to upsell. It might be worth paying to have one done since any technician doing one will find anything and everything that is wrong with your vehicle. Coming out of a state inspect with a clean bill of health will give a buyer fewer reasons to lowball you. As far as the park brake, it may be a matter of adjusting the rear brake shoes and park brake cables, which should only cost $35 or so, or it could be more serious. I know people say you shouldn't spend money fixing up a used vehicle for sale, and there is truth to that, but at the same time it may be worth spending a $100 or so if it can help you get an extra $3-400 out of the vehicle.

abaya

Thanks, crazybill, I appreciate it. I didn't think I could get an inspection done in PA for a WA licensed car... I mean, sure they can inspect it, but will it "count" for PA? I just wonder.

I suppose I can take the car in to check the adjustment, in case it's that easy. I'm glad to see that the clutch rats have stopped making their noise, since that was really odd for a few days.

The only other issue that has come up is we had a massive snow and ice dump yesterday, so not only is the car completely filthy, I had to squirrel it around in its outdoor parking spot to get it out of the snowbank that surrounded it (after shoveling as much as I could)... and I noticed that after speeding up, the steering wheel/alignment(?) had a slight shudder. I think that's new... just since the snow storm... so I'm worried that I got something out of place when I jockeyed it out of the snow. Uggh.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

shakran

nah, don't worry about that. You got some snow up inside the wheel, and that's throwing it out of balance. Either dig it out or park it in a warm garage to melt it out and it'll go away.

abaya

Damn, you guys know everything. Well, if I had a warm garage, I'd use it... will have to resort to a hairdryer perhaps.

Anyway I suppose no one is going to come look at the car when we have snow and ice covering all the roads, for the time being. Gives me some time to go get it washed and shiny again, and also to see about the e-brake (going to get it checked out ASAP).

Oh, I put up the ad again... disclosed the front alignment/tires but that's it, since I intend to fix the e-brake at least. I also called about getting it PA inspected, but they said they could not do it because it's WA. So I disclosed that in the ad as well. That would take about $75 off the car, just to have that done.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ozahs

I sold a 1991 Honda Civic about a year ago on Car Soup. It worked pretty well. Listed it for $1800, got $1700. I don't think you should go down in price.

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mx5me

I'd try putting the ad in other places too. Is there a free Want Ads near you? We have one that is on the honor system, so you pay if you sell. Another thing to consider if you really want to get rid of it is eBay. I looked at completed listings for 99 Escorts and their selling prices were generally in the $1100-1800+ range, but one low mileage one got bid up to $2800 (it had no advertised mechanical problems). If you do that, I'd state that it's for sale locally, and reserve the right to end the bidding at any time.

abaya

Hmm, well here's the latest:

1) Took the car to get the e-brake looked at last week, paid way too much ($65) for them to tighten it down twice (two days in a row!) with still no hold on a hill. So they tell me it might need a new parking brake cable. So much for being a conscientious seller. Still debating over whether I should pay for that, or just be honest about it with the buyer (stick-shift really needs a parking brake)...

2) Had 3 people say they'd look at it over the weekend, then noticed that someone had posted an ad for a 1998 Escort (one year older than mine, but same mileage) for $1500... underselling me by a good $600, and his was in better condition and with a PA inspection to boot. No one came to see my car.

3) So, as a result of the above, I've reposted it on Craigslist again for $1900 this time, and we'll see how that goes. If it gets to Thursday of this week without any serious buyers, though, I'm gonna start dropping it quick (I need to get rid of it by Monday of next week!). I'd rather not go below $1500, but we'll see.

Thanks for all the help, we'll see what happens. I did look at some local papers, but this is a podunk little suburb and it seems very few people read the local newspaper (they go for the big city news). Hmph.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

1) List it in the paper. Any paper that people read in your area will do. It's worth the money.

2) Don't sell it to the first person who offers. Get a few offers before you decide.

I immensely regret selling my last car, Zippy, in a hurry. I miss Zippy.

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abaya

Thanks, Snowy. I'll check out the local paper again tomorrow. I definitely haven't sold it to the first person who offered... have gotten about 5 offers by now, but no one wants to buy it at the price I've put forth. So I don't have too much choice, especially because we are leaving the country on Feb 28th.

I would hate to sell my car in a hurry (I've always liked it very much), but I'm afraid that's my only option at this point. It's been on the "market" for about 10 days now without much progress... I need to slash my prices to get it off my hands pronto.

----------------------

EDIT: Damn thing automerged my update, which is from today at 10:55 AM...

Well folks, looks like I got an offer at $1900, not bad I guess. Still a few hundred less than I'd like, but that's the way it goes.

My next question is: If I sell a car (assuming a cash transaction), do I just have to sign the title, write the amount of sale, and pass it to the new owner? Is there anything else I have to do, after sending the report of sale to the licensing state (WA, in my case)?

I've heard there are less taxes if you give the car as a "gift" (even if someone is paying you), but I don't know how that works. Any thoughts?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

abaya

Sold it today for $1800, not bad eh??

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran