Shauk

Ok so... I'm not sure where to put this thread, this seems like the best bet.


A little about me.

26 male. Will be re-enrolling into a school for game design and the like. Have always been very interested in gaming platforms as a powerful tool to create worlds and overall, convey content. As such, I play PC and Console games quite regularly as my "offtime" hobby.

I'd like to think of myself as fairly stable. I have no problems meeting my bills, I hold a car payment on an $11,000 sedan, have been in a relationship with my girlfriend for 4 years, we also live together, and have pretty much settled into making long term plans with eachother.


Now. That aside.

I'm also very interested in electronic music (as it is often used in games, but I tend to like the more orchestrated music these days) and the more I researched it as I was growing up, I found out about the rave culture and the fact that these were like Concerts, except, actually for electronic music instead.

Perfect, just what someone like me would like to go to.

I also took up the hobby of DJing, released plenty of Mix cd's and the like, had a solid base of people who really enjoyed what I did.


fast forward 5 years later.
I've pissed everyone in the local area off with my rejection of thier attitude that the music is secondary, and after getting to know a lot of people over those 5 years, seeing a lot of them burn out on drug use. I've never taken drugs, and I have a very strong stance against them being tied to the music scene as "Genre specific"

Example, if someone has a news story on "Exstacy" it will always be followed up with a blurb saying its a popular drug at "Raves"

This really was bad for people like me who really wanted raves to be about the music, and I got angry at people for bringing drugs to parties, and eventually, I became quite reputable for my attitude towards these people who only helped enforce the stereotype.


Basically, I said "Shit on this" and left the scene for good.

Recently, my girlfriend wanted to go to a rave (which, by the way, they don't call them raves up here anymore because of the social stigma, they are just "electronic music events") so we went, and its was rather expensive (25$, 2 people 50$, also a 40 minute drive) and was shut down by the venue owners due to people, of course, being idiots and smoking weed in the open, or being high as a kite on other drugs as well.

This was 1 year after I had parted myself from the scene because I saw where it was headed, and I didn't want to be associated to it in any way.


recently, a news story came through detailing a drug bust.

http://www.kxly.com/common/getStory.asp?id=45760
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9927961/

More details emerged on a local forum, and turns out, it was a promoter of some of the more recent raves (ahem, Electronic music events) in the area.
Also, many of the people I had grudges against got arrested as well.
Basically, it was a long time coming.


Of course, i took the opportunity to speak my piece on the article saying yeah, its not cool to have the drugs associated by genre.

Then when all the details started emerging that it was actually tied very closely to the scene that I had left behind, I was actually starting to defend the correlation the media had made, because you can't stereotype something if people aren't making it true in some way.

Of course, I get lambasted being told by people who were actually there, and arrested, that I should shutup, that they hope that I die, etc.. blah blah and that.. get this... I SHOULD LIVE IN REALITY, before making my judgements.

Coming from people who are reported as being too high to realize what was even going on, i found this ironic.


OK, now, sorry for the long post.

now onto the beef.

Basically, as I said, I play a lot of games, and the argument has come up that *I* am the person being hypocritical because the games i've been playing for years, are escapism, and the drugs that I look down upon are escapism.


lets face it, yes, drugs are here to stay, and yes, there is an industry, I would say there is a distinct different between the 2 types of people where 1 would be a pharmacist, and the other one, a drug addict.

Heres the different in my mind, for one, there aren't schools teaching people how to be addicts, how to deal drugs, how to get arrested for doing drugs.

There are schools that teach medicine.


I'm not going to deny that some people can get so caught up in games that they lose sense of themselves (to the point of dying sometimes) but in the same sense. what about me? I want to make this stuff? I want to join a team, who's job it is to take someones vision and make it real. To me, its the new hollywood, It's not directing a movie or writing a book, its making a game.

So, really, whos they hypocrite here?

Reese

Your only problem is arguing with drug users. There's always going to be people who obsess over things that most people consider normal enjoyable activities like playing a game or watching a movie. Video games are about as dangerous as aspirin, sure people have overdosed on them but normal useage might actually be healthy.

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vanblah

The problem here is that you're trying to reduce it to black and white. Pharmacists on the one hand and drug addict on the other. There are more people who use drugs recreationally WITHOUT being addicted than there are addicts. Pharmacists get busted for dealing drugs illegally too ...

Same for video games. More people play video games for a normal amount of time (whatever that is) than sit for 15 hours straight and play the games. No one gets arrested for writing a game illegally. However, people have probably gotten busted for copying or distributing games illegally ... but that's a different story.

But I guess all that's beside the point.

As far as the hypocrisy argument goes ... I'm not sure there's even an argument here. You have the opinion that "drugs are bad." Would you still have the same opinion if drugs were completely legal? What if video games were outlawed? Would you still want to create them?

SiNai

Escapism is healthy. When one overdoses on drugs, its bad. When one overdoses on videogames, its bad. Everything in moderation. However, videogames are arguably the healthier approach. Besides, you make tons of money in the videogame industry, if you're good. You get shot in the drug industry..

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Shauk

*sigh*

did I ever say that "drugs are bad" ?

no. What i said was, I don't like it being a negative stigma on the music that I like, because people continually choose to be fuckups and get wasted at these events.

I don't care what people do in the privacy of thier own home, it doesn't concern me. As long as they aren't violating another persons rights, its that grey area to me, its hardly black and white.

so don't put words into my mouth.

The problem i have is that when i say something like "well it was your choice to deal drugs and you damn well knew the risks associated to that action, dont come here and cry about it when you get caught and expect sympathy from me" that the game thing is thrown at me like some retarded banana.


If drugs were legal, I'd have no reason to say anything like that. Facts are facts.

Lets not play hypotheticals here with video games being illegal, lets face it, you know it will never happen, it falls under the category of free speech and expression, like movies, games, books, music, and any form of visual/audio media. certain groups may try to restrict the sale to minors, but thats about all they can do. Its not even similar.

Mantus

Shauk I still fail to understand what you expect of us.

vanblah

*double sigh*

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You may have taken it that way.

In a normal conversation people are allowed to ask questions and formulate hypothesis. I didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to do that in a conversation with you.

The "hypotheticals" (as you call them) are there as a way for me to get to know your angle. They are legitimate questions. I wanted to know if your problem with the drug scene was one of personal experience or just because drugs are illegal. The question I had for you (although veiled) was something along the lines of "Are you saying that drugs are bad (at raves) because they are illegal or because you don't like them." I didn't want to come out and ask that because the answers to the hypotheticals are always much more interesting than answers to blunt questions.

You did go on to clarify your question though.

Of course, you're exactly right video games (writing, selling, playing) in no way compares with doing drugs (legally or illegally) ... is that what I was supposed to say in the first place instead of trying to have my own opinion?

Shauk

that is pretty much my argument, yes.

*shrug*

sorry, I'm still a bit heated up at the flak im getting from the other site. I'll chill out.

Willravel

Drugs are illegal. Video games are not illegal. This is the world in which we live and these are facts that are important to the argument. If people want to argue about hypothetical situations where drugs are not illegial, they are not having the same argument as you. Besides, how many video games a year kill people vs. illegal drugs? I'd be willing to bet a lot less people die because of games than drugs.

Edit: this is why I left the trance music scene.

vanblah

The best way to win an argument is to fully understand the point the other side is trying to make. Or at least try to understand. Once you understand their point of view ... and I don't mean a simple understanding ... you will be able to argue your own side much better.

Of course, that may require some work. You may not want to put that much work into it and it may not be worth your time.

I'm with you ... drugs have a ruined a lot of scenes; not just the rave scene. It's senseless and depressing. Really, it's not the drugs that ruined the scene but all the bad hype and over-zealous cops.

Comparing an illicit activity to a legal one in this case is just nonesense ... but its' not nonsense to the person making that argument. That's what you have to understand. You can just call bullsh*t; but that only makes the person angry and feel justified.

skinnymofo

raves arent the only scene that is covered in drugs. If you go to any venue, probably even a "drug free" event there will be drugs and drug users there.
Concerts and drugs pretty much go hand in hand, you just only hear about the ecstacy and rave scene because of propaganda.
i dont really understand the arguement here as its not with anyone at this site?
everyone else seems to have covered what i cant understand so ill leave it at that. i guess

highthief

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