pan6467

As some of you may know, I am an addictions counselor. I thought if any of you may have questions concerning addiction, loved ones addicted, eyc. I would offer my services.

My advice is just that and you can take it or leave it, I do not profess to know how to "cure" but I am very strong in recovery and have helped many find a recovery.

I do not shove 12 step programs because they do not work for everybody. The problem many have with 12 step programs are they treat everyone's addiction the same and can be very robotic about how they treat people seeking recovery.

Unfortunately for some, people, especially addicts, are different, they have different needs, wants and reasons to recover.

In this cyber-space, I am wanting to help, and so I am offering. I can refer you to local private and public funded recovery centers, I can recommend ways to help yourself or a loved one find recovery. I can offer advice on how to deal with a loved one's addiction...... ask and I'll do what I can to help.

You can post or if you choose to remain anonymous feel free to e-mail me. No problem is too small and no problem too big..... Like I said my advice is just that and for legal, ethical and moral reasons I shall not nor will I ever profess that my advice is the only way. It is just one of many, but perhaps I can offer something that may help in some way.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ShaniFaye

is there ANYTHING you can do to get thru to a crack addict? I have two that live in my home and they fight constantly...to the point that the cops get called out for domestic disturbances, but they never do anything about it.

I hate living in a Jerry Springer household

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

thanks for saying the 12 step stuff. I tried that earlier in my life and found that all it seemed to do was replace drug of choice with higher power and methodical meeting attending.

for me the method that works is being aware.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Astrocloud

I am almost honestly considering Debtors anonymous. When I have money it's almost like I can't control my spending. Or better put: I simply have to avoid the places where I will spend my money.

For example: the day I got laid off from Lucent -I went to a footwear store and bought two new pairs of Timberlands. Not because I needed them but because it felt good to buy stuff.

Do you have any experience with this?

pan6467

I don't know your situation and based on what you have told me I can offer generaliztaions, I hope will help.

If you are the household then hold an intervention (with friends and family) and demand the addicts either go into rehab or move out and be cut off financially. Tough love interventions can work, they are very difficult, in that you have to maintain an emotionless face and yet talk about emotions.

Those that participate cannot allow themselves to show any emotion at all. The addict will play on every emotion possible and will try to find that "weak link". If emotions are shown, positive or negative the addict knows he/she won. In the interaction always remember the addict has thrived on on, leeched off, and used your emotion for their own self gain. In an intervention, it has to stop, and the beginning of them facing their self has to become reality.

If you show anger, the addict knows anger can be turned into pity or guilt, it is best to have everyone write down exactly what they need to say and not venture off. Rehearse, rehearse, rehearse until you can read that without any emotion, crack in voice, etc.

Tell the addict how much fun life was when they were clean and how much life has become miserable because of their use...... (NOT THEM.... one of the biggest problems with interventions = people give the addict guilt trips and guilt trips just make the addict feel hope is gone or they use it against you.)

If you call Cocaine Anonymous or a treatment center near you (if you want to tell me where you are I can find places that can offer help.... almost every big city has recovery places based on an income sliding scale), they sometimes can refer you to a referee that can come in and help immensely with the intervention.

Now, if they are the household, this is the toughest situation.

You can still hold an intervention, hope they don't throw you out. Chances are they will show you the door and deny totally any problems. They know they can scare you (by taking away your living arrangements) into what they want, which is to use without interference.

The best thing to do if that is the case is to just move out on your own, find a friend or family member that will take you in. As long as you stay in that situation, they will play on every emotion possible from you to get what they want.

Mainly, just remember this, love and positive emotions show that they can fuck up as much as they want and they can keep coming to you to make it right. Anger, hate and negative emotions, just feed their self indulgence because they feel "well she doesn't care, I've fucked up so bad it doesn't matter anymore." Addicts are pros at playing emotions, using everything they can to get justification from others for their use.

Good luck, Shani, you have a hard situation, but with inner strength you can help yourself.... helping them, you can't take that responsibility. You can offer to get them help and be there as they go through it, but in the end they have to want the help for themselves.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

You're welcome. Doctors go through 8 hours of addiction traing in med school, that's it. And the sad thing is most have no idea about addictions, all they know is to refer people to a 12 step program or a treatment center based on the 12 steps.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

I can tell you I was a compulsive spender (and still am to a much lesser degree) and it is tough. What I found that helps is as hard as it is, give someone else (a family member) control of your money. Also, cut up the credit cards, tell family and friends under no circumstance to loan you any money and if need be go to a credit counselor.

Find what triggers you, find out why and work on it. For me, I spent because I "had" the money and "owed myself something" or I was broke and "what the Hell, I can buy this and I'll just worry about it later." Then I suffered from depression when bills came due and felt there was "no way out" and would spend more because it allowed me a false sense of being in control.

I am not familiar with DA except by name alone. It is a problem we face in this country (high debt is almost expected) and finding a working solution starts within self. Sounds like you know the problem, the hard part is finding out what works for you to recover. You can do it, it just takes a lot of inner work and dealing with feelings the spending has covered up for years.

It's the same as any addiction, and yet, this addiction is one fed hard by the credit companies, with all kinds of loans, cards, etc.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Manuel Hong

Have you ever heard of this?
I just received my ADS (acu-detox specialist) certification. The results are astounding for the program. check it out.
http://www.acudetox.com/

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Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

pan6467

If a person truly wants to quit and they find something to believe in anything will work, because the mind allowed it.

But to say one way is the "best", or the "safest" or the "surest" is snake oil sales.

Not taking anything away from Acu-detox (which I have heard great things about) but as with Betty Ford, Hazeldon, A.A., religion, whatever, follow through is extremely important. Addiction cannot be fought alone. One can stop by themselves but their relapse rates skyrocket when they try it alone and do not have some form of support.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dj_nav

hi
some addiction advice could be used here i guess...

ok i've been smokin weed for a long time.. about 5 years now... i started smokin on weekends but for the last 3 years it has been pretty much everyday... and in the last few months i have even started to smoke like 5 times a day. Altought i wouldnt say im completely addicted to it... its just that i work 8-5 and then i go home n eat and get bored.... so i end up callin my friends n we go out. What are things u might suggest that i do to help me quit. Note: i am quitting cuse i have a drug test in about 3 weeks for a new job. Would you suggest any drinks/food to help me pass the test?...

thx

pan6467

Well, first do you truly want to quit or are you just quitting to pass a pee test and once passed you'll be hitting again?

The answer determines what chances you have in recovery.

If you want to truly quit, instead of your nightly routine of get home, eat and get bored then call friends.... do something else. Volunteer to be a tutor at the library, go to the gym or Y, read, join area clubs and organizations, be active in your church..... all of which sound fuddy duddy, I know, however, tutoring for example teaches humility and understanding of others less fortunate, those are great attributes to have and will help you farther in life.

It's hard as hell to quit an addiction, and 2 things are required a 100% commitment and change in lifestyle and support from family and friends and dropping those that don't support you.

Now, if it's just a pee test you want to pass..... I can't help you, but I do know there's a few threads on it, just do a search.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

Personally, I think that a person becomes an addict because they find something that makes them feel good and for whatever reason they believe that the consequences aren't an issue. It maybe the only thing in their life where they feel a sense of pleasure and well being.

If everyone in your life treats you like shit but after smoking a joint or having a few drinks people treat you better, even though you may have a hangover or get sick.... the consequence was worth it.

I don't see it as a weakness I see it as a person's inner decision to survive in some way.

Ever see the movie "Wine and Roses" with Lee Remick and Jack Lemmon? She has a line early on in her drinking that is telling about addicts..... "The world is so dirty, alcohol gives me a chance to pretend it's cleaner." (It's not a direct quote but very close.)

That's how addicts see it..... "this makes me feel better, I can function and see the world and feel the way I want." That's why the addict can keep lowering their rock bottom. They can keep saying (and meaning it) they want to quit, but the second they get that drug in them, or trigger the mind (for pschological addictions like food, sex, gambling)..... they remember the feeling the addiction gave them, how great it made them feel and "how much better life was with it"...... and they don't care about the consequences as long as they feel that way.

Thus they take more and dose higher and take more often. I am a firm believer that physical tolerance is a factor, the psyche truly pushes and controls the body's tolerence.

That's why some people can smoke 1 joint a night and never have any problems. Or how some people can take powerful mind altering prescriptions as prescribed. Or someone can drink 1 or 2 alcoholic drinks maybe feel the physical buzz and get a little loose and have fun but then not drink for a month. Or so on.... whatever the drug, they enjoy the effects but it never becomes an issue with them.

An addict can't understand that because of the pyschological factors. An addict is constantly chasing the buzz that made them first feel and see the world as they wanted.

If addiction were ever just physical, the drunk would stop drinking when the shakes ended.... but they don't they keep drinking until the get the feeling the desire.

It's why we get "dry drunks". They see the world as dirty and maintain the level of comfortability to them.

That's why we have "cross-addicts", stopped drinking, but now gambling or stopped the coke but now drinking..... or stopped the heroin but now abusing Xanax.... etc.

That's why we need to treat the psyche and more than just through 12 step programs, or thinking they are losers.

In order to treat them and understand our own addictions we have to see what they get from that "drug" and how we can get them to see and feel the world is better than they think without the "drug".

We need to reteach them how to enjoy life without the crutch.

Until we can do that, Camprel, Chantix, Suboxen, Methadone, etc. is just a band aid and a quick fix.... that won't last. They are "fix a flats".... unfortunately, insurance companies, the government and the medical profession refuse to accept this idea and so until the companies and government and whoever is willing to pay for long term deep therapies, most addicts will remain forever addicts.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

stevie667

I hope that Pan doesn't mind me adding this, but i've been addicted to a couple of particularly nasty things in my lifetime, which have both nearly killed me.

The best advice i can offer is want to quit. You have to want to get rid of what holds you, because it won't go otherwise. Thats the first, and in my eyes, most important step, but it is not as hard as you may think.

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Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

Ourcrazymodern?

As an addict I feel free to state:
It's a matter of choice, even if it doesn't feel like it.
Any person can change their mind, and they're the only one who can.
Support has to be accepted before it becomes useful.
Acknowledging redundancy....

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

ngdawg

I have a close friend that has been smoking weed most of his adult life. Each time he tries to quit, his mood becomes so...rocky is the best way to describe it, he gives up and goes back. It doesn't help that the weed is partially medicinal-minimally so-he suffers from debilitating arthritis in his spine.
So each time he goes 'on the wagon', it becomes a case of soothing his increasing temper and using diversionary tactics.
As a plain ol' cigarette smoker, I know how difficult it is to quit anything-I can't stop this even though I say everyday I 'have to'. The mood becomes explosive-testy doesn't begin to cover it. So, I can understand his dilemma.
Are there 'tricks' that one can use to ease the anguish and the temper?

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

pan6467

Self discovery, seeing what is going on and stopping it before it goes any further. Lame answers, I know.

Most addicts see their problem, and they can confront themselves, (such as us smokers....) but when someone tries to talk to us about the problem we become defensive, as addicts we don't want others telling us how bad the addiction is, we know it already we don't need to be harped on.

That's one reason tempers could flare. We need to recognize people for the care they have in us by giving us the advice, but we must also explain to them that their harping adds excess pressure and triggers more use.

We also need to talk with them openly and honestly about how they can help us quit. That's when if the addict truly wants to quit will want to find what truly works for them to stop.

Another and probably the most common, subconciously we have told our bodies for years we need this substance to feel good, to get through the day, to enjoy life, etc..... when we try to quit cold turkey without any type of buildup, our psyche goes haywire. Our minds our saying, "Wait, we can't enjoy, we can't have fun.... we don't have the substance."

So our tempers explode and we now have our reason to use.

How do we prevent this.... well, we work our way into quitting. We start looking at reasons and triggers we use and think of new ways to handle them. We also need to explain to those around us that we are going to be grumpy and pissy and moany..... but as long as we stay clean we need the support from those around us the most. The best way to support us isn't to point out the crankiness and negative behavior (at first) but to point out the positives and how we are getting through it sober.

I say at first because there is no reason if we are truly in recovery to be pissy and moany for weeks after our last use. If we maintain that negative attitude, we probably have relapsed in our heads and it is only a matter of time before we relapse fully or find a new addiction to cling to.

Sorry so wordy, but helping people with and understand addiction is my passion and calling in life.

Very true words!!!!!

And no I would love to see others share how they overcame their addictions, it's not just informative to me but may help someone.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Elphaba

Pan, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you putting this out here. I think I now understand why I have continued to fail at quitting smoking from what you have written above. Am I close with this understanding?:

I know smoking is bad for me in so many ways, but I cling to it because it smooths over my stress. I have quit long enough to get over the physical addiction, but my psychological need is the one that I can't seem to overcome. My primary need is that smoking gives me a momentary release from a stressful life. I chill a bit, feel calmed, and get back at it.

I think what you are telling me is to exchange this false perception of calm with something more real and natural, and not be dependent on the nicotine rush. Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, chomping on vegetables never worked for me because that didn't relieve the stress that triggers my need to smoke. I think I should counter the stress connection with smoking to other ways of dealing with stress. Deep breathing, exercise, whatever...yes?

pan6467

Exactly, for years you have conciously and subconciously told your psyche that, "the best way and easiest way and perhaps the only way is to...light up."

So, now you are at odds, realisitically, rationally and by all rights you know you need to quit. BUT, your psyche is saying, "ummmm yeah, but this is how you trained me to handle this."

Hence, Chantix and the Nicotrol inhaler have done away with my physical need but now I have to figure out the psyche. That can only be done when I am 100% willing to let go..... I'm not as much as I want to be, I'm not.

Now, you maybe 100%, in which case your psyche is open to retraining. It may desire to go back to the easy way, but if you see that happening and honestly are at 100% you'll work the psyche to find a better solution than to pick up.

I'm a firm believer in psycho therapy as help, maintianing someone who will work with you (a sober network, sponsor, pastor, lover, relative, friend even God or a combination). Someone you can call and know will help you at 3:30 AM.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Elphaba

Thank you, Phil. My greatest support is my husband that has survived lung cancer. He hasn't nagged me, but I know he will encourage me.

stevie667

In a follow up, i quit on a whim cold turkey. Decided one morning that i didn't want to be this way anymore, and didn't take that stuff again.

However, for some people who will go 'thats unpossible if you had an addiction', its not. Granted, i was in a state of mind where making a random decision and following through on it was commonplace, and i can't exactly remember the month or two afterwards (i have it on good authority i stayed indoors away from people and was grumpy), but it was the decision that was important.

I know its a cliche, but saying no was a wonder. It was around that time i picked up my interest in working out (which has gone up and down over the years). Feeling fitter and looking better definatly helped me.

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Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

ngdawg

Very telling and basic. I always compared smoking cigarettes to 'adult thumbsucking' and from past experience with quitting and starting up again, that was/is the case. How I handle stress is to light up. A year ago, I was a 3-pack a day smoker. I thought I'd quit, so I started using a log, writing down the times I lit up. I went down to 1-1.5 packs a day. In the last week, I didn't write the light-ups down and their frequency went way up. But I can't get past that 1.5 number even with logging and knowing what I'm doing to myself with these...
When I asked my doctor a while back for prescriptive help to quit, she refused, stating that first the desire must come from and start with me. She approves the logging idea since it keeps me aware and at the same time, seeing I just had one 5 minutes ago, I step back(although mornings are killer-I 'load up').
When I'm drawing, I don't light up during that time, sometimes going a couple of hours before I realize I didn't have a cig. (it's really hard just sitting here typing and not having one)
In my friend's case, while of course he doesn't toke during working hours, he smokes cigarettes as well, so either way he's filling some 'need'. And, since his job is something that is more or less 24/7, doing it at home then in an office, there are constant triggers he can't escape.
Question: Do you feel that dwelling on the 'reasons' to quit any addictive behaviors works as a trigger to keep those behaviors alive?
I 'know' what is happening, ie; I have a 'nicotine moustache, sinuses are shot, Reynaud's worsens(the only treatment for Reynauds is not smoking), heartburn worsens, breathing is compromised-all things I tell myself are reasons to stop, yet I don't...how does one reverse that? As someone who went through psychotherapy to reverse the triggers of panic attacks and psychosomatic illness, I know how to do that, but how does that work with an addiction? Can it work with addictions?

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

pan6467

I like the idea of the log, a very good way to see your triggers, and it did help.

I think that putting pressure on yourself is just as bad as someone else doing it, maybe even moreso. If you tell yourself, "self I need to quit smoking." And you find yourself not quitting, and know in all honesty you don't want to..... it creates a stress (inner turmoil and uneasiness)...... how have you taught your body and psyche to handle stress?

I think psychotherapy can work wonders (if you allow it to). It can bring out reasons for use that you buried. It can work wonders. But the doctor has to be good and you have to follow thropugh no matter how bad the memories and feelings may get. You walk out halfway through and have all these unresolved issues and feelings that have been brought out... it can be very hazardous.

But just because I believe it helps in recovery, doesn't mean it helps everyone. For me it is a sleeve in my umbrella... for Joe Schmo it may not be, he may see it as a waste of money, and he recovers just as well as I.

Something to be very proud about Stevie......

I applaud you. Are you working any form of maintenence program? How are you staying clean?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"