Drug use - spiritual?

[raeanna74]

I have not used controlled substances. I have not personally seen positive results of anyone I know using them. I have only seen recreational uses of drugs. I have heard that some people can use certain drugs for spiritual purposes and revelations.

I am curious if those of you here who have used drugs have ever used them for spiritual enlightenment. If so what have you gleaned from your experiences. Do you seek it out often with a watcher? How do you approach it?

I don't intend this as a should it be legal or not, or are drugs good for you or not. Those subjects have been discussed here ad nauseam. I'm just curious about the spiritual purposes of drugs.

[cylune]

I, personally, don't use drugs for 'spiritual use' per se, although while under the influence of various narcotics I have come to a new realization and meaning of life. I guess you could call it my spirituality if you so wished, given that I am not in favor of a God or whatever. It gives me enlightenment into who I am, and who I want to be, and why.

[The_wall]

I'm in the smae boat as cylune. However mushrooms and acid are 2 popular drugs that poeple use for spiritual purposes. I havn't done acid yet, but with mushrooms you use like 10% more of your brain, and everything about life seems so much more clear and at the same time its much more confusing.

[Polyphobic]

I have used both shrooms and lsd during college. Nothing spiritual came out of these experiences for me. They were just fun at the time.

[stevie667]

i've never used drugs for the purpose of spiritual enlightenment, it's not something that really appeals to me...

...however, i have had some trips in which i have be known to give sermons to potted plants about the sins of their ways.

spiritual use isn't a main reason for usage these days, at least among the recreational users, but when your high, the fact that everything is suddenly a lot clearer and more in-fact does tend to make a spiritual feeling emerge inside of your mind.

[anti fishstick]

i can see how people would think drugs spiritual and enlightening. but i just don't see how this could be ones main source for enlightenment since i think that drugs should take away from that path. the last time i took shrooms, i had an "enlightening" experience that i shouldn't do any of these drugs again for these reasons. something i could've/would've thought already sober.. but through drugs, i really FELT my realization strongly. kind of ironic, eh?

I have used Acid and Ecstacy. Never have I had a spiritual experience on Acid, but with Ecstacy it seemed to enhace my experience of life to another level. I never found it as hallucinating, nothing was too vivid as far as seeing things, but I found myself realizing deep feelings of wondering that I always had about life, God, etc.
I don't recommend using drugs, but they can open your eyes & mind to more than what you see in reality. I don't believe in hallucination, as everything that we may see or hear when we are trippin' actually exists, but in a dimension beyond our own.
Ecstacy I am thankful for the experience as I probably would not be spiritually enlightened as I am today.

[rockzilla]

I think the kind of experience you get out of a drug trip depends a lot on your mindset going in and what you expect to get out of it.
I've done my share of hallucinogens and never had anything close to a spiritual experience. No life-changing epiphanies, no mysteries of the universe were revealed to me. In fact, I think I forgot a lot more stuff than I learned. I wasn't looking for answers though, I was too busy staring at my hands.

[sprocket]

I occasionaly use some psychedelics for spiritual reasons. Recreationaly too ( they can be damn fun). What I get from them is an ability to evaluate myself and life outside the context of myself. LSD, especially, dissolves my ego and lets me look back at the events of my life objectively without bias, as if all those events happened to some other person. It always allows me to be brutally honest with myself, more so than I can be in a sober mind. In a way, it can be a self administered psycho therapy.

Other psychedelics have different effects on me. LSD seems to be the one where I get the most spiritual insight.

5-meo-DMT is something Ive tried recently. If there is any chemical that produces a spiritual (Kundalini) experience, this is it. It felt as if my body became pure energy and was one with all that exists (as corny as that sounds, its how it felt). It was great; I'm glad I did it, but I'm not sure if I gained anything from it except an interesting experience. I will definately be trying it again. Next time I'll have an idea of what to expect so hopefully I'll be able to get more out of it.

Whether I use a sitter or not depends on the drug I'm doing. All of the longer lasting psychedilics are usually taken with friends, though I have tripped by myself on more than one occasion. Shorter duration psychs like NN-DMT, and 5-mao-DMT I actually prefer to do by myself. Salvia on the other hand definately requires a sitter (people like to get up and do things on this drug and they wont remember doing any of it when they come back to reality, usually).

Ya, I don't find psychadelic or hallucenegenic drugs to be bad- it's how and why you use them...and how often.....

[raeanna74]

sprocket - this is what I was curious about. I was wondering what kinds of things you would learn from them and what would motivate you to do them again.

I kindof imagined it as feeling a bit like I did on morphine. A peace, and more detached. I don't think I'll ever try anything myself but it's interesting to know what motives people to try them and what they gain from them beyond fun, if anything.

[jay-g]

Theres nothing religious or spritual about drugs. People do drugs to get fucked up and have fun. No one uses it with the notion of, "oh yes i am gonna find out the meaning of life". It takes more than some rat poison, or whatever drug it may be, to have a spritual moment. You may feel more enlightened and seem to have a clear vision, but its all bullshit, you dont learn anything about yourself or life, because your fucked up and dont know whats going, even though, you may think you do. Go hang out with the monks in Nepal or somwhere, and tell me you had a spritual experience. Then i will believe you. How can you take a person serious about having a "enlightening experience", when at the same time, they are entertained for hours, by staring at a wall or something.

^^^ I believe that may be an assumption. There are many religious & psychics all over the world who actually do drugs as a means of spiritual clarity, higher consciousness, etc. They know how to use them, and they have a clear, peaceful mindset when doing so. They know how not to abuse the drugs, the purpose for them in their practice, and using them in moderation, for only when they need it.

It all has to do with knowing the drug, what your using it for, how you use it, and your mindset.

[jay-g]

Thats funny, in my opinion, i think drugs for high consciousness is bogus, and on top of that, you talk about psychics using drugs for that purpose. And psychics arent even real, so thats like a double negative. You must be a free spirited hippy girl. Its cool though, i respect yours and everyones opinion on whatever subject. Its my opinion, just like its yours.

[skinnymofo]

Theres nothing religious or spritual about drugs. People do drugs to get fucked up and have fun. No one uses it with the notion of, "oh yes i am gonna find out the meaning of life". It takes more than some rat poison, or whatever drug it may be, to have a spritual moment. You may feel more enlightened and seem to have a clear vision, but its all bullshit, you dont learn anything about yourself or life, because your fucked up and dont know whats going, even though, you may think you do. Go hang out with the monks in Nepal or somwhere, and tell me you had a spritual experience. Then i will believe you. How can you take a person serious about having a "enlightening experience", when at the same time, they are entertained for hours, by staring at a wall or something.

many people meditate while on hallucinogens peyote (mescaline) and mushrooms seem to be the big ones on this. everytime ive taken mushrooms i just geta sort of depressed feeling about just being an inefectual nothing when compared to how big the universe is. after sobering up though im happy to be alive and am driven to experience all that can with what time i have.
the trick i think to hallucinogens if your trying to get something out of them and to remember what happened is get a tape recorder and or notepad to write down and say everything your thinking because believe it or not some good ideas and revelations do come out of these experiences.

Originally posted by jay-g
Thats funny, in my opinion, i think drugs for high consciousness is bogus, and on top of that, you talk about psychics using drugs for that purpose. And psychics arent even real, so thats like a double negative. You must be a free spirited hippy girl. Its cool though, i respect yours and everyones opinion on whatever subject. Its my opinion, just like its yours.

See, that is all in opinion, you're right. You believe there is no such thing as experiencing a higher consciousness on drugs- that is your mindset. You claim there are no real psychics, that is your mindset.
You never truly know until it is known intuitively- and experiencially.

[sprocket]

Originally posted by raeanna74
sprocket - this is what I was curious about. I was wondering what kinds of things you would learn from them and what would motivate you to do them again.

I kindof imagined it as feeling a bit like I did on morphine. A peace, and more detached. I don't think I'll ever try anything myself but it's interesting to know what motives people to try them and what they gain from them beyond fun, if anything.

Well morphine (and all opiates, like herione, opium etc) are worlds apart from the psychedelics I mentioned. I cant speak for others, but nothing meaningful for me came from an experience on an opiate. I dont even find them all that pleasant. ( I think I might be the only person in the world who doesnt enjoy heroine ). Opiates dont alter my perception in such a way that I feel Ive learned something or come out of the experience with something more tangible. They seem to shut down the psychic processes that would allow such a thing ( when I say psychic I'm not referring to some mysterious power that the likes of Ms Cleo claims to have, I'm referring to the inner workings of the mind ). Closing the third eye, instead of opening it.

Without trying to sound too fruity, I will attempt to give you some examples of what Ive experienced and why I would continue to experiment.

Psychedelics, for me, have altered my perception of the world. A change in perspective that my ego centric normal state of conciousness would not afford me under normal circumstances. By nautre I'm a very introspective person, constantly self-analyzing, and psychs definately amplify that trait in me. Many of the changes I've noticed in myself really come to the surface in the form of intuition or feelings that are very hard to put a finger on or describe to you in words, simply because they have no context in the reality we live in. As if theres no words, pictures or expressions that humans have devised with wich we can convey such feelings. They just exist. LSD or AMT trips are very intense and they last quite a long time. I've often wished I could take a snapshot of what the world looks like while viewing it from the perspective of an LSD peak. It can be... well.. a beutiful sight. No matter how enjoyable it can be, usually by the end of a long, intense trip I am glad to have my sober mind back. But its usually back with a modified outlook on my world. I guess I'm pretty cynical and pessimistic by nature, but after a trip the daily grind seems to be less mundane. The typical things like paying bills, or the thousand other meanial jobs we tend to in everyday life in order to survive are no longer looked at as chores or obstacles to jump over, but as laying a foundation for wich to build the life I want to live. The slight perspective shift that came from a few trips, made the glass half full, instead of empty. They can give me a renewal of sorts. Some people experience the same thing by going to church, praying, climbing a mountain, camping, throwing a big party with close friends, or combinations of all those things. A recharging of their spiritual batteries so to speak. These perspective shifts can come to you naturally and probably would have come to me eventually. I beleive my psychedelic experiences opened my mind to other lines of thinking moreso and sooner than I would have come to naturally or through other experiences. Psychedelics are by no means my only avenue for wich I try to gain self knowledge and awareness.. they are just one tool I have found useful in that quest.

Other psychedelics like DMT create a wholey different type of experience for me. Short lasting (about 12-15 minutes and peaking at about 3) and more intense than any acid trip. Jay-G compared doing these things to taking rat poison. Well, think what you will about the spiritual use of drugs, its not really my business, but DMT is something every human has experienced (and is in no way poison). You were just to young to remember. The interesting thing about this drug is its actually present in all of us. The pineal gland produces it. Right between and just above your eyes, buried in the brain. Interestingly corresponding with the sixth chakra (associated with sight, intuition, imagination, clairvoyance). Its not actively producing enough of this chemical in our daily life to have an psychedelic affect on us but its there. Its theorized that many religious and spiritual experiences are caused by reactivating the pineal. There are also natural ways to turn it back on and have your own body produce this chemical that was catagorized with rat poison by a previous poster (and you will have the same kind of visionary experiences you would have if you smoked it). I'll post some links to more information on this if anyones interested. So who knows.. DMT might actually be the chemical behind the spritutal experience. The pineal produces the most DMT during the period we were groing inside our mothers. If I remember correctly, its active most while we are going through childbirth. Many believe this drug is a way to re-live or reexperience your birth (or have a rebirth). When I tried it thats definately something I felt. Like it was a reset button for your brain . It was amazing to say the least.

Ill elaborate further later but I'm tired of typing after this long winded post and I need to get some sleep. reanna feel free to ask for clarification or further input. It took me a while to respond because I wanted to put thought into this. I'm glad you asked this question because its motivated me to dig a little bit deeper as to what I've really gotten from my experiences.

[pig]

As a side note on the use of drugs for spirtual enlightenment, I would add that in my opinion, a part of every user's desire to use drugs is inherently linked to spiritual realization, enlightenment, or curiosity about matters than can be considered spiritual. If you believe that one of the basic questions humans have about "the meaning of life" is linked to the relationship between truth and perception, then I would posit that playing with this relationship is one of the primary allures of any drug. It definately alters perception, but does it alter truth. Can you hold on to your nomal perception while under the influence, or does it vary?

As a follow up to OshnSoul and Jay-G's discussion about the use of drugs and so forth, I would note the use of peyote by Native American shaman as an example of a drug used for spiritual realization.

[newmanator]

Originally posted by sprocket
I occasionaly use some psychedelics for spiritual reasons. Recreationaly too ( they can be damn fun). What I get from them is an ability to evaluate myself and life outside the context of myself. LSD, especially, dissolves my ego and lets me look back at the events of my life objectively without bias, as if all those events happened to some other person. It always allows me to be brutally honest with myself, more so than I can be in a sober mind. In a way, it can be a self administered psycho therapy.

Other psychedelics have different effects on me. LSD seems to be the one where I get the most spiritual insight.

5-meo-DMT is something Ive tried recently. If there is any chemical that produces a spiritual (Kundalini) experience, this is it. It felt as if my body became pure energy and was one with all that exists (as corny as that sounds, its how it felt). It was great; I'm glad I did it, but I'm not sure if I gained anything from it except an interesting experience. I will definately be trying it again. Next time I'll have an idea of what to expect so hopefully I'll be able to get more out of it.

Whether I use a sitter or not depends on the drug I'm doing. All of the longer lasting psychedilics are usually taken with friends, though I have tripped by myself on more than one occasion. Shorter duration psychs like NN-DMT, and 5-mao-DMT I actually prefer to do by myself. Salvia on the other hand definately requires a sitter (people like to get up and do things on this drug and they wont remember doing any of it when they come back to reality, usually).

The first time I tripped on a-MT was beauty, and I at least vaguely experienced what might be termed "spirituality." However, I'm also skeptical about wrapping language around such a personalized concept, one of those things that can't be aptly characterized with words (or maybe I'm just a lazy hack lol). I wouldn't try, at least at this point in my life, because I'm not sure I can even subconsciously process such a concept, or would even be able to recognize an instance of it were I fortunate enough to have such an experience. But I guess the fun is in trying.

I, too, thought I dissolved my ego, which I later concluded was hilarious; thinking I could avert my ego was actually the product of my amplified ego running wild like Hulkamania, brother. I'll say without a doubt that I felt more enlightened, alive, and wholesome while tripping on a-MT than I ever did in any sort of religious ceremony.

Smoking 5-meo-DMT was a mind-blowing experience, but in a bad way. Ten seconds after inhaling, I felt as if I'd reached a sort of ambiguous pinnacle of highdom, at least compared to what I was used to with pot, but I just kept ascending, and progressively faster, and after a minute began telling my sitter, "I'm just tryin' to come down." My sitter, on the other hand, was transformed to that storied world where, as he said, he was, "More than okay," equipped with the requisite eyes like black holes in the sky.

About a year-and-a-half ago, and just a few months after tripping on anything for the first time, I ingested 5-meo-DMT and Syrian rue (ayahuasca) and had a life-changing bad trip about which I've only recently begun writing. There is nothing spiritual about running naked in 40-degree weather around a deserted campground, thinking you're the American Werewolf In London while also thinking your nephew is dead and your close friend will soon die, that is if he can stop himself from screaming like he's being exorcized for long enough to actually run into the river and drown himself. Had I a gun, I would've shot myself in the head.

Perhaps fortunately, my other three friends blacked out and remember little from that night. It no longer haunts me like it used to, but I'll never be the same so I would never recommend tripping on grounds of achieving a new level of spirituality on account of what I think is a lopsided risk/reward ratio.

[Martel]

It is different for everyone. Psychedelic drugs don't "do" anything to you, they simply allow you to see things in a way that you don't normally. If you go into it wanting to get fucked up and have a good time, you'll get fucked up and have a good time. If you go into it as an experiment into the nature of reality and consciousness, you'll likely have reality- and consciousness-changing effects.

[minyn]

Ive seen people do this on Ecstacy. But when it comes down to it, in my humble opinion, self revelation should be left to when yourself is fully conscious and not being affected by a chemical. for me, i see as enlightenment under the influence not true enlightenment. and its dangerous. i saw a girl get broken in the midst of such tasks andit was horrible. its dangerous, you are simply not in your right mind. and if you are becoming enlightened when you are in this state, what mind is benefitting?

Dunno, im buddhist and i doubt Buddha did it any other way then through his mind.

[noahfor]

I've taken both pharmaceutical antidepressants and hallucinogens, and without a doubt hallucinogens have helped me far more than any antideressants. One can't understand until one does them. It's not like being drunk or high. I don't drink or smoke marijuana. There is no clouding. It opens ones mind up, not to sound cliche. Minyn, you said self revelation should be left to when oneself is fully conscious. Well on some hallucinogens I feel more fully conscious then when I am not on them. I have learned so much about myself and the mind from taking them. Everytime I take them I feel like it puts me back on the right track in life. My girlfriend and I always say that we feel like doing hallucinogens brings you into the real world. I feel like my normal state of mind can be represented by running through a hallway, enclosed, and the only place I can go is foward, but on hallucinogens I'm not enclosed. I'm not moving. They just slow things down, so you can take a look at what is really going on, without being on some mission. That is another thing, when I take them I always realize that I'm always on some mission to do something, always, we all are, and psychedelics just stop that. When I'm on them I live for the moment, and forget about the future. We live for positive emotions, and people create these elaborate plans and missions to gain some large payoff of positive emotions, but one doesn't need the plans. There is enough here and now to supply a person with positivity forever. They let me see that.

I don't know much about buddhism, but isn't spiritual enlightenment when one reaches a point of no "I", no thoughts, just experience. Well, I have experienced that when I took a drug called "psy". The idiots that sold it to me didn't even know what it was, and I'm probably a bigger idiot for taking it, but I evaluated the situation and decided to. That's beside the point anyway. While on it I entered this state that I described unintentionally, and when the I disappeared I realized that I am merely experience, and that there is no point in life other than helping others experience the positive. It was a while ago, so I can't really remember it that well.

[raeanna74]

Thankyou for all your contributions. These things are very interesting. It's opens up so many avenues to pursue in my own mind.

I figure if you can reach those conclusions and revelations using chemical means it's gotta be possible without chemicals. Our brains are always awash with chemicals and most drugs that I know of actually only alter the levels of thoes chemicals which we already possess. I want to reach deeper and higher in my own mind. I'm leary of using drugs to reach it because I know that they do come with some risks and I've not had any experience with them so I want to try without their assistance. But hearing of what you've seen, felt, heard, and decided as a results of your excursions in the mind sortof helps me be able to focus my mind in at least a general direction just a little easier I think.

[Fenton-J-Cool]

As a daily marijuana user, I cannot see it as a means of spiritual enlightenment. It can enhance video games, make things seem more edible, and make you a more enjoyable person to be around, but it will probably not lead you to enlightenment.

However, as a casual magic mushroom user I can tell you that those can seriously and drastically change your life. I can't explain how, because it's entirely thoughts and not words..
Basically, you realize things. Things. Things about your life and the people around you, and you will actually feel enlightened. It's really nutty, like you're the sole bridge between physical and astral life.

[Amarth]

I am of the opinion that drug use makes you feel more spiritual because you're more accepting of your own thought processes. When something pops into your high mind, you just kind of think "yeah, okay" and go along with it where your sober mind might question it or ignore it. Thus, you can reach spiritual conclusions much more quickly.

On a somewhat comical side note, this affect also tends to make really bad ideas seem like really good ones. I've got whole lists of those. Not my own, but my friends'. I'm sure some of you out there heard about the kid who tried to stuff his girlfriend in a duffle bag for a free bus ride. He's my friend and I can garuntee that was one of his high ideas.

In the end, I guess you trade "common sense" (a term that I don't like using) for clarity.

[kalisto_911]

I concur with a lot of these posts and I would just like to toss in one thing. If you do decide to try psycs just remember that the first and most likely second time you do them will be so completely out of this world that you will likely forget about self exploration and become completely absorbed with the task of remembering that it will eventually come to an end and normalization will occur.

If you stop reminding yourself of this fact then you will likely not enjoy the experience and miss out on the revelations that occur after you have tripped a few times and know how to handle it better.

Personally I am glad that I have taken Mushrooms and I look forward to trying different chemicals later in life, however I do wish that I had waited a bit before trying them because if you just fuck off a lot and party instead of getting things accomplished it will throw that in your face pretty hard, its not so much a meaning of life experience, its like people said, it strips you of your ego and shows you yourself if that makes any sense at all.

Oh and I also wouldn't recommend a Phish concert as the location of your first trip because as fun as it sounds, hundreds of thousands of people are ReALLY overwhelming when you first have a psychedelic(sp?) experience.

Have fun.

[ARTelevision]

In brief, drugs are blunt and phony philosophical tools. I don't care what Aldous Huxley or anyone else said or says.

[ShaniFaye]

In my days of heavy pot smoking I cant say any spiritual happened to me. I did however come up with a great idea of decorative coasters (you have to understand this was 1986 and you couldnt run out to the home decor stores and buy them like you can now)

[SinisterMotives]

Overall, I've had more "spiritual" experiences when I was clean and sober than when I was on drugs. I've posted about the few exceptions elsewhere. Drugs can be useful in combination with ritual activities for inducing spiritual experience, but for the most part I'm inclined to believe that the same experiences can be achieved - and will have more lasting value and be more easily duplicated - through a lot of discipline and hard work in practices described by people who have had ample experience in these matters - i.e., the well-known and respected sages and mystics of ages past.

Originally posted by jay-g
Go hang out with the monks in Nepal or somwhere, and tell me you had a spritual experience. Then i will believe you. How can you take a person serious about having a "enlightening experience", when at the same time, they are entertained for hours, by staring at a wall or something.

You don't think a monk would be entertained staring at a wall?


I think certain drugs can trigger a period where there is some form of experience with a higher level of consciousness. The problem is these experiences will never go past the time the drugs are affecting you. The entire point of those levels of consciousness are that they are non-temporal.

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by kalisto_911
Oh and I also wouldn't recommend a Phish concert as the location of your first trip because as fun as it sounds, hundreds of thousands of people are ReALLY overwhelming when you first have a psychedelic(sp?) experience.

That applies to any situation where there's a large number of people. The best place to trip would be a nature park or somewhere way out in the country where you can be relatively alone.

Don't look at attractive members of the opposite sex (or the same sex if you're gay) while you're on acid either. You'll start obsessing on their curves and stuff.

[stevie667]

I like acid and larger doses of ecstacy for the odd spiritual wander.

I prefer curling up in a douvet, turning off the lights, putting on some nice long trance, and letting my mind slowly wind it's way around quantum theory and cooking lettuce, before, to quote a phrase 'becoming the music', and losing myself, so to speak.
What i do like though is someone who is also tripping to have deep conversations (even if it is only the relative merrits of thick or thin pile carpety) about shite, as it generally can lead to some interesting revelations about life.
Of course, thats from the view of a recreational user, not someone who would use the drugs only for spiritual enlightenment.

[irseg]

There's nothing spiritual about drug use. Drugs are simply chemicals that alter how your brain processes information. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that and that they can't be fun, but there is no higher meaning to it. The closest thing would be that they can help bring out your subconscious thoughts, but that's no more of a "spiritual experience" than dreaming.

I tried ecstasy once. I enjoyed it and it was nice in that I made sure to tell the friends I was with how much I cared about them (something I always think, but don't always say often enough), but the next day I realized most of the supposed amazing, deep, meaningful conversations I had were primarily "Whoa... this music sounds REALLY GOOD!!!" etc etc.

[braindamage351]

5-meo-DMT is something Ive tried recently. If there is any chemical that produces a spiritual (Kundalini) experience, this is it. It felt as if my body became pure energy and was one with all that exists (as corny as that sounds, its how it felt). It was great; I'm glad I did it, but I'm not sure if I gained anything from it except an interesting experience. I will definately be trying it again. Next time I'll have an idea of what to expect so hopefully I'll be able to get more out of it.

I've never tried drugs, but I've experienced the so-called kundalini rising, and it is quite a strong feeling. I did it to myself simply by following the instructions without faltering. It basically felt to me like I was light as a feather, and super strong. It's especially odd to me, because I am overweight and almost never really feel light.

[iliketoast]

I've recently run across some mp3s of Allan Watts speaking about his trips with LSD and you might want to check them out. Also if you haven't, you may want to look around http://lycaeum.org/ and http://www.deoxy.org . The last looks horrible to me, but I've been entertained alot by the trip reports and alternative philosophies presented there.
I would highly suggest a sitter for any psychotropics you may decide to try. As much as possible try to make sure you are getting high quality drugs, and not some inexperienced cook's random chemical cocktail. The way your teeth feel loose and the other dirty feelings from some bad acid isn't something I'd wish on anyone.
Best of luck, would love to hear back about your trip if thats the route you choose.