Harshaw

The recent job thread and the fact that I have an interview tomorrow have made me wonder about a few job's do's and don'ts.

The number one question I have is, should I bother calling a few days after my interview? My friend is telling me that sometimes employers will gauge how interested someone is by waiting to see if they call or not. So that's the question, is it going to hurt my chances if I call, say, 2-3 days after the interview?

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This too shall pass.

la petite moi

No, most people I know have told me to call after an interview if you are truely wanting this job.

Cynthetiq

There's two things for after inteviews that are a phenomenon in the US.

1st is sending a thank you card.

2nd is a follow up call.

As a hiring manager I can tell you after having MANY candidates resumes and then faces come to meet with me, the people who did those things that I was maybe on the fence with got more notice and I called them in for a 2nd interview, which then meant I had to push someone else out of the way.

good luck

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WarWagon

Exactly. A lot of employers won't waste their time with you, and they WILL gauge your employment based on how interested you are to working there. Last summer I was looking for a job, went to the place of employment even though they weren't hiring TWICE, spoke with the boss, and left my name and number. She called me back earlier this year while I was at school, giving me top priority to work for them this summer. Priority above even RETURNING employees!

Its all about showing them commitment and responsibility, both of which can be shown with as much as a simple little phone call.

maleficent

Ding Ding Ding -
I don't care what kind of job you are interviewing for. A thank you note, personalized (if you aren't sure how to spell their name, find out), thanking the interviewer for their time to meet with you and discuss the job.

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This is gonna make me sound like a curmudgeon - but unless you are interviewing at MTV - dress conservatively.

Tuck in the shirt, shoes shined is a nice touch, clothes cleaned and pressed, whatever you have pierced, I really don't want to see it (depends on the environment)
.

EYE CONTACT when talking.

Firm hand shake - and this can be a little ackward.

Ask questions - and not just about salary and benefits-- as an interviewer, I know I didn't cover everything that you want to know, I can't read your mind, Asking questions shows me you cared enough to pay atttention, and you are interested enough in the job to find out more.

Show up for the interview a little early - you will probably be asked to fill out a job application first - -give yourself time for that. ( I have declined interviews with people who were fine candidates but showed up late without calling)

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Cynthetiq

I work at MTV, even then, you should dress appropriately, in fact when I was the interviewer I would also dress in a suit and tie to help put the interviewee at ease because everyone else they saw in the building was very very casually dressed.

good luck!

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Rodney

For years, I interviewed for jobs at places where the employees routinely wore t-shirts. Yet I always came to the interview in a coat and tie, and so did just about anybody else who got hired. It's artificial, sure, but it's a way of showing that you're committed, that you really want the job.

What everyone is saying is that showing up and saying, "I want the job" isn't enough. You have to prove it to them. Callbacks, notes, and business attire are ways of doing this.

Another way is to find out everything you can about the business before the interview, then use that knowledge to ask informed questions. Your interviewer will be very impressed. You can also use that knowledge to bring up more things about you that might be pluses for them.

la petite moi

Jeez maneez, cynthetiq, what do you do for a living?!

k1ng

I always place a follow up call or two after an interview, but I've never sent a thank you card/note. Can someone give me a little more information on what to say? What kind of card/letter it should be on? How should it be sent? Typed/handwritten, etc..

Thanks!

EDIT: Good luck on your interview, Harshaw! Let us know how it went and if you used any of the above tips.

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"Delight in excellence is easily confused with snobbery by the ignorant." -Joseph Epstein

maleficent

First and foremost ask for a business card of the interviewer. This allows you to get the title and spelling correct for your thank you note. (my name isn't all that tough to spell, so it drives me nuts when it is spelled incorrectly)

Send the note the day after the interview thanking them for the time and reiterating any points you made about your experience and qualifications. Quote something back to them about something they said, so they know you were paying attention.

State in the thank you note your "next step" intentions. For example, "I will call you in a few days to see if you have any followup questions." or "I look forward to meeting with the department Vice President."

Close with a professional "Sincerely,"

I tend to type thank you letters, because I have miserable handwriting, but I don't think it matters. If i were to handwrite a note, I'd use nice stationary (Cranes makes really nice monogrammed note cards) Use good quality paper, not just plain old paper.

Googling a bit, this site has some pretty good examples of thank you notes
http://www.quintcareers.com/sample_t...u_letters.html

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Cynthetiq

great tips maleficent, they ring very true...

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Harshaw

Wow, thanks for all the tips everyone. I've been on several interviews, but the idea of thank you notes or call backs is pretty alien to me. So these tips are excellent.

The first interview was done over the phone, it was for a recruiter. She is going to have me go in for another interview in about a week. I figure I'll send her a thank you email today (we never really exchanged addresses).

Can I just say- I love telephone interviews.. there is nothing like interviewing in your own room in your comfy clothing

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This too shall pass.

maleficent

The client I am at this week asked me to spend sometime with a candidate for a summer position. It would have been a great position for someone, not a typical grunt position, they'd actually be learning some skills to build a resume with.

Candidate today was Jymmi Something or other.

This young man, who at age 20, should know better, can serve as a case study as to How to NOT get hired and will also be therapy for me ...

Jymmi was taken to the conference room to wait for me arrive. When I opened the door, Jymmi was slouched in the chair legs spread about 5 feet apart (letting the boys breathe?) and arm slung across the table. The job application was in front of him filled out, in cursive, when it clearly stated printing.

I walked in, and said good morning, and introduced myself. Jymmi hasn't moved, he did a head tilt kind of thing and grunted, "Hey".
(I really had to resist the urge to smack him upside the head and tell him to sit up straight, stand when the interviewer walks into the room, speak clearly, and offer your hand in a firm handshake)

So, we'll cut Jymmi some slack... and proceed with the interview.

I had some problems reading his handwriting so I asked him about his previous job, his response, It's on his application. Well OK, thank you for playing our game, I can see something is on your application, you didn't bring a resume to help me out with your miserable handwriting, maybe I'm trying to clarify something, or maybe I'm trying to trap you to see if your application has any fibs on it.

So, I take a calming chug of coffee and try that approach again, I asked him what he did at his last job. His response. Stuff. Care to be more specific? I did what the managers told me to do (so basically he took no initiative on his own). And that would be.... Stuff. (this chile was giving me a headache)

So, he claims to have some technical experience, I asked him about his tech experience, he created a web page, ok that's swell, any kind of support you've done? I helped friends create their web pages, nifty, any work with servers or networking? I asked a few more questions, because his application did say he was experienced in tech support (I worked in the computer lab in college, so I know it's possible, I also know it's a tough gig) All of his support was helping his friends with AOL. (desperately trying not to laugh)

Why'd you leave some of these jobs, well they scheduled me too early, and if I was out the night before, I wasn't always on time. (points for honestly I suppose)
So, lets get down to it, experience really doesn't matter all that much for this position, we'll train you. Has this position been explained to you? (I know it had been because I wrote the job description) No. (I'm his last interview, he's already interviewed with 3 other people, at no point the job hasn't been explained to him? I find that hard to believe) I explained the job to him and asked if he had any questions. NO. Ok, does this job interest you. YEAH. That's good, what about the position intrigues you? (let's see if you were paying attention, son) All of it. Really? Fabulous. Care to elaborate on that, (tell me that getting into server support, or documentation, or working with users would interest you - give me something) At this point, past the conference room window, an very attractive young lady walks by. He is entralled by her. He asks, She work here? Yes, she does. Yeah, I'm really interested in the job now. (at this point, I'm looking for the Candid Cameras cause this surely has to be a joke) THen he actually asked, there a lot of hot chicks who work here?

I can't even remember the rest of the interview, sadly, young Jymmi will not be playing our game.

I checked with the other folks who interviewed this young man to see if I just got him on an off day, and they said the same things i did -- So why'd they pass him on? Because his technical skills looked solid (but they were fibs on his application )
NOTE: If you are going to fib on your application, make sure that you remember what that fib is.

Looks like Jymmi will be flipping burgers this summer.

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denim

And I bet he won't understand why, either.

Cynthetiq

probably not and griping that he's got skillz but no one is cutting him a break. F that.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Sparhawk

Haha... anytime you need to vent, maleficent, do it here. Great story on what NOT to do.

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Harshaw

As far as calling a company back after an interview, is it ok to ask the interviewer for a business card? Or if they don't have a card, is it ok to ask for a number that I can follow up with?

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This too shall pass.

maleficent

absolutely ok to ask for a business card, that way when you write the thank you note, you are spelling the name correctly.

If a person doesn't have a business card, i don't see a problem with asking for a phone number.

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Harshaw

Ok, I'm going to revive this thread because I have another question.

What is the best way to send my resume to a company? I've pretty much ruled out sending a resume via email because it seems like I never get calls back on those. Is mailing a copy in preferable to faxing it in? I can see why it might be (a mailed copy will be crisper, cleaner etc) but it is just so much faster to fax a resume.

Is one form better than another?

Thanks

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This too shall pass.

maleficent

It honestly depends on whether you are cold sending your resume, or responding to an ad.

If you are responding to an ad, and they say to fax the resume, fax the resume, shows you can follow rules.

If you are just sending your resume in, send it via mail, directly to a person, in the department you want to work in, along wiht the cover letter as to why you'd be a good fit for the company.

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Cedar

Maleficent, you are a better woman than I. I'd have thrown Jymmi out five minutes into the interview. How much do you want to bet his mom did his homework for him in school?

Everyone's already said really great things, but I want to add one more: Make sure ALL of your contact information is at the top of your resume, including email, fax, phone, and address.

Other advice:

1) Make sure that if you post your email addres, that it looks professional. Something like your first initial and last name is a no-brainer. Too many people have cutesy email addresses, or ones that are unprononceable and/or difficult to read.

2) Don't use print smaller than 10-point Times New Roman on your resume. A lot of us are taught that a two-page resume is the kiss of death, but better to go to a second page than to not have your interviewer able to read it.

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Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
I am large. I contain multitudes.

-Walt Whitman, Song of Myself

cartmen34

maleficent's rendition of Jymmi is a good example of why I'd never be cut out for managing, hiring, or firing people. If I were in maleficent's shoes, I'd have walked in the room, laughed out loud at his manner of sitting and responding to my entrance, and said, "Thanks for coming in, I think I have all I need to make this decision." Then I would have laughed some more....and left the room....laughing as I went down the hall.

This is inappropriate I know....this is why I do not want to be a manager...Now.....where'd I put that book on Advanced Polymorphism concepts for Java?

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"The problem with quick and dirty, as some people have said, is that the dirty remains long after the quick has been forgotten" - Steve McConnell

maleficent

Excellent point. The other one that drives me crazy is when people use their current employer's email address on their resume. Maybe it's just me on that, but it screams of unprofessionalness (is that a word?) You are using company time and company resources for your job search, and I'd want to hire you why?

While I am not a fan of Yahoo or Hotmail, at least those are seperate from work email addresses.

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maleficent

I know there was a thread on this somewhere else, but I couldn't find it --

We've talked before about the importance of asking the interviewer questions, and not about vacations or salaries or that ilk.

The article had 4 questions that seemed pretty good, and thought I'd share...

1. What arte the biggest challenges of the job?
It'll clarify exactly what the position entails, it also allows you to talk more about why you are qualified
2. Why is this position open?
You'll learn why the last person left, and you'll suss out if there is a high turnover or i the boss is a devil in disguise and will torture you.
3. What's the next step in the process?
Here's where you'll find out if you have to meet with other staffers or take a test, so you won't have to scramble if you are called back
4. When you will make a decision?
Knowing when to follow up will help you figure out what your next move should be.

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Rlyss

Wow, maleficent, I'm glad you posted those questions for us. I have <b>always</b> had trouble finding a balance between showing interest in an interview job, and appearing ignorant, like I haven't done my research. Those questions are a great help, and I've never thought of asking why the position is vacant.

Was there any reason you kept interviewing Jymmi? Did you think you might uncover something good, or that he might prove himself worthy of the job, or were you merely remaining professional and completing the interview? Did you continue because you were intrigued by this guy?

maleficent

Honestly, the interview continuted for two reasons.
1. I didn't have it in me to say, I'm sorry, you're a moron who's wasting my time, go away.
and
2. It was a like a car wreck, I just wanted to see where it was gonna go, and at that point I was writing teh journal entry in my head and I needed the conclusion.

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Bill O'Rights

So...basically, it was for entertainment value...right?

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It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

maleficent

Ummm -- yeah...

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JohnnyCarson

edited in next message

JohnnyCarson

I have a couple of questions as I am job searching due to a layoff (at the age of 46)

1) It seems like most initial contacts are via phone interviews. I have had first, second, and even third interviews via phone. Is it ok to send email thank yous in these cases?

2) Here is my background since 2000. 1/2001 to 6/2001--company was bought out by another who had their own management. 9/2001 to 5/2003--operations manager for a temp labor company. Company decided to go out of business rather than pay doubled workers comp insurance costs. 9/2003 to 5/2004--Regional manager for an electronics retailer who closed the local regional office and merged the stores into other regions.

Anyway, when I explain these last 3 jobs, it seems like they don't really believe me. I have never lost a job due to my performance. Prior to 2000 I worked for a company for 11 years and before that a company for 10 years.

What is happening is that I get a first interview and invariably get asked about my past few positions which I answer truthfully. I always get told that the next step is that I will be interviewing with so and so at the next level. I email a thank you for the interview and then usually don't get called back or get a 2nd interview, and told I have exactly what they are looking for and set up another interview with me but then never call me for it. In fact, in one situation I interviewed 3 times and was told they wanted me to come to the corporate office and would call me the next day with the flight arrangements. They never called and didn't respond to phone calls or emails.

No one will tell me why this is happening, as it is against company policy to discuss their interviewing process. Is it possible that I am losing out because I am a white male 46 years old? There is nothing negative in any of my former positions. I really don't know what to do about this other than keep sending resumes and hoping for the best....any ideas?

Suave

HOW DARE YOU SULLY THE GOOD NAME OF HOTMAIL!!!

And AWAY I GO! *flies off*

Actually, as a question to you managers out there (Mal included, or even ESPECIALLY!), is it a big deal at all if I give in a 2 page resume? I'm getting tired of having to take out bits and pieces to make it fit on one page.

Also, my dad (also a manager) told me to put some hobbies/interests on there. Important? Or not so important?

denim

I limit my resume to two pages. I do not include hobbies, and I kinda wonder why anyone with actual experience would want to have such on a resume. Mine is here, if anyone wants to critique it.

Suave

Well according to my dad, it gives the manager an idea of you as a person, somehow could help them relate to you, that sort of thing.

Cynthetiq

right if you happen to "relate" to the hiring manager in some way... it helps.

examples: same fraternity, club memberships (Lion's, Rotary, etc)

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Pip

"We are members of the same secret society! Hire me or the Grand Baboon will spank you with a spoon at the next meeting!" (Written in secret society code)

Nah, if you don't have a resume as impressive as denim, some hobbies can fill out nicely, to show what a hard-working, honest and wholesome person you are, such as volunteer work, sports, scouting, church stuff.

maleficent

Depends on what the hobbies are... (By the light of the silvery moon, on days that end in a Y, I enjoy.. oh nevermind-- Not sure future employers want to know about some hobbies)

Volunteer work is always nice.
This sounds terrible, but I'd not list any thing I've done that is remotely religious sounding

This is where customized resumes come in handy... You would want to research your future employer, and maybe try to learn something about the interviewer and customize your resume to them.

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maleficent

Even though that's been said, if you are interested in the position, you still should send the thank you note to the interviewer, and following up in a few days, if you don't hear from them I don't think is out of line.

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