Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Life


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2007, 06:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
I'll ask when I'm ready....
 
Push-Pull's Avatar
 
Location: Firmly in the middle....
Advancement at the expense of others.....

A situation at work made me think of this, and I thought it'd make a good topic of conversation here.

What if you knew you were going to be advanced at the expense of someone else? That is, what if you knew that management was going to either transfer or otherwise "remove" a person to make room for you? How would you react, and what factors would influence how you feel?
__________________
"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-
Push-Pull is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
I wouldn't react much. I would take the advancement and the paycheck.

I'm not really much on worrying about co-workers feelings because in the end I know that a corporation is a corporation. They don't really care about anything but the bottom line.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
I Confess a Shiver
 
Plan9's Avatar
 
...like crabs in a barrel.
__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."
Plan9 is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
 
Bill O'Rights's Avatar
 
Location: In the dust of the archives
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
...like crabs in a barrel.
What...lost? Trapped? Hopeless? Confused?

There's a reason that someone is being "removed", and a position opening up, and I highly doubt that it's just to make room for you. There are other issues at play, and one should not 'feel bad" for moving into a position that thay are qualified for, and "someone else" clearly was not. Unless, of course, you set the "someone else" up to take a fall, just so that you could move into their position once the dust settles. Barring that, it's life, and that's the way that it's played.
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.
Bill O'Rights is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
I Confess a Shiver
 
Plan9's Avatar
 
Stepping on each other to get to the top, maybe?

...

Dunno. Depends on the job, really.

Military? Not so much. You get promoted for being a stud with sharp duds and answering trivia questions while in a horrible green polyester suit.

Civvie? Suck enough dick and you'll go far.
__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."
Plan9 is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
I'd probably feel some guilt. Although I would know, rationally, that I should not feel that guilt, I would still have some.

They aren't just making room for you. There are reasons that the other person is on their way out.
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
I won't think twice of it. Maybe I'm jaded and conditioned to accept it now, but I don't have any remorse for such things at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
the company looks out for it's own best interests; you should be doing the same.
I've had many friends let go, furloughed, laid off, sacked, made redundant,, whatever you'd like to call it. I've been threatened and had it happened to several times already. So what, it's part of the game. It's not personal, it's business.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:11 AM   #8 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Nah. I'm happy where I am and I don't like being responsible for ruining someone's life.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Nah. I'm happy where I am and I don't like being responsible for ruining someone's life.
Seeing as how you are a VP (I'm an owner as well), I fail to see how you are ruining someone's life. Sure, that person may have to look for another job, but if the company is being held back by someone or can perform better, aren't you ruining more than one life by keeping that person on board??

Business is business.. that's life. For me I've never mixed friendships etc with it and my life has been alot easier that way.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:36 AM   #10 (permalink)
Found my way back
 
healer's Avatar
 
Location: South Africa
I'd need to know why the other person was being let go. If it was because they weren't performing or something, then that'd be OK. If it was because I can do their job better than they can, that's OK too.

Any other reason would make me feel guilty. I'm a firm believer that shit like that will come back to bite you in the ass.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Ok - can I edit my posts to read "what healer said"?
healer is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
Confused Adult
 
Shauk's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA
just remember if they "made room" for someone else such as yourself, they can "make room" for someone below you if you don't perform as well as they'd like.
Shauk is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
The larger the company, the less this matters. There are no magic numbers that I can see, but there becomes a point where you're always taking someone else's job.

Here's something to think about - unless you are creating your own company from the bottom up, you are always taking someone else's job. It may have been a job that they did in conjunction with someone else, but it was a job that was done nonetheless. That seems to be universal regardless of the industry.

If someone else is not doing their job well or is not competent, it is the manager's job to find someone to is competent and do the job well. Feel bad all you want, but I've always found that people rise to the level of their competency. When they get beyond it, they tend to float back down to the levels where they can perform well.

As an aside, as a salesmen, I always want to be in exactly this position. If I can find a competitor who isn't doing particularly well, I can generally insert myself there and replace them. It isn't personal; it's business.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
 
Daniel_'s Avatar
 
Location: Southern England
I once attended a lecture for some of the top young professionals in my field, and the lecturer listed a company organisation chart, and invited people to imagine that they were running one of the smaller departments in the business.

He then invited people to point out on the chart who was most likely to help their career advancement.

After about seven people had put their ideas forward ("it's the MD because he wants everyone to get on", "it's my head of department because he does my appraisals", "it's my team because they help me achieve my objectives", etc, etc) I finally got frustrated and called out "the only person that matters on that chart is ME - none of the others will pay my mortgage".

It was the right answer.

A year later I was on the committee of the organisation that ran the training session.

Two years later I co-authored what is now the industry standard text in what was my field at the time.

Three years later I was the keynote speaker at the 25th anniversary meeting of the group.

The realisation that you have to shamelessly promote yourself in these ways was key in my career development.

As has been said already, if there's a vacancy the "victim" is going anyway. Taking the post is not doing them down, they were already on the skids.
__________________
╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine

╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝
Daniel_ is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
Seeing as how you are a VP (I'm an owner as well), I fail to see how you are ruining someone's life. Sure, that person may have to look for another job, but if the company is being held back by someone or can perform better, aren't you ruining more than one life by keeping that person on board??
Ever been fired from a $150k a year job in an area in a recession? I've seen people fired from Cisco who are repairing sinks while they have been desperately seeking work for over a year. It's not easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
Business is business.. that's life. For me I've never mixed friendships etc with it and my life has been alot easier that way.
I respect the people I work with and understand that while they are parts of the company, they are also human beings.

Besides, I work best in a #2 position.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
A claim could reasonably be made that all advancement occurs at the expense of someone else.

That being said, the devil is in the details. If said person is going to be removed regardless of who fill their position, and you don't find said removal particularly tasteless, you should probably go for it.

Not that this is a very insightful or revelatory position to take on the matter.
filtherton is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
My position was created for me.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
Eccentric insomniac
 
Slims's Avatar
 
Location: North Carolina
If I have outperformed the person being replaced, then I will feel it is appropriate and won't feel guilty in the least. I won't gloat, but I will certainly smile as I move into my new office.
__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence
Slims is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
My position was created for me.
And I'll be that someone else had your responsibilities already.

Job creation serves to free up someone else to focus on another set of responsibilities.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
And I'll be that someone else had your responsibilities already.

Job creation serves to free up someone else to focus on another set of responsibilities.
Not in cases of expansion. When a company grows and starts to branch out, the people they bring in are replacing nothing but potential and planning.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
My position was created for me.
That doesn't mean that you're the only person who could do it.
filtherton is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Not in cases of expansion. When a company grows and starts to branch out, the people they bring in are replacing nothing but potential and planning.
So why didn't they hire in house?? That would have improved so and so's life wouldn't it? You took a job that someone else could have filled just as easily.

You bring up Cisco.. which as most big businesses have downsized and/or relocated. That is a totally different subject completely, however I can see the correlation as a worker in another country let someone else have another's job. That's the point, when it comes down to it, the company and it's stockholders are profit driven, they don't care about who does the job as long as it's done well for as cheap as possible. So why should I care if I take your job?? The company thought I could do it better and/or more efficently so have a nice life, good luck in the job market and goodbye.

If it's me that's fired.. big fucking deal. It happens. I would expect the person taking over my job to do a damn good job at what I was doing and I'll survive and find something else. It's called business. In my experience, when you start bringing emotions into the business strategies more than your head, your business will suffer and more than one person will end up down the road you have mentioned.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Not in cases of expansion. When a company grows and starts to branch out, the people they bring in are replacing nothing but potential and planning.
Sorry, will, but you're wrong. Unless the owners are taking the business in a completely new direction, someone was doing those tasks before. As a small business owner, I can tell you that every single person I ever hired either freed myself or someone else up to focus on something more important (to that individual). It doesn't matter what new position is "created"; those tasks were someone else's responsibility before, although they may have been neglected or done in a radically different way.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:42 PM   #23 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
So why didn't they hire in house?? That would have improved so and so's life wouldn't it? You took a job that someone else could have filled just as easily.
Technically, it was in house because I'd been volunteering for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Sorry, will, but you're wrong.
Just because you don't understand my specific situation doesn't mean I'm wrong. They WERE taking things in a different direction and they had no one to head that new direction. In walks Willravel, and out walks no one. I took over for no one. Other board members came up with the idea, but none of them were ever responsible for it.

I think as a general rule, people should always be sure before they come right out and say "you're wrong" to me. Or to anyone. It comes off as very condescending—whether you intended it that way or not—, and if the person you're speaking to isn't wrong, then you look even worse for being so sure.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Technically, it was in house because I'd been volunteering for years.

Just because you don't understand my specific situation doesn't mean I'm wrong. They WERE taking things in a different direction and they had no one to head that new direction. In walks Willravel, and out walks no one. I took over for no one. Other board members came up with the idea, but none of them were ever responsible for it.

I think as a general rule, people should always be sure before they come right out and say "you're wrong" to me. Or to anyone. It comes off as very condescending—whether you intended it that way or not—, and if the person you're speaking to isn't wrong, then you look even worse for being so sure.
You <i>are</i> wrong.. technically.. in the business sense. Even if they were taking things in a different direction, someone else could easily have filled the same position whether it be by volunteering or applying. Nobody else wanted the job?They chose you. Just because someone didn't walk out didn't mean it didn't take away from someone else, or that you're so special a position made for you didn't have responsibilities that are/were attached to another job or person. How are board members not responsible for decisions and positions they create which affects their money??

All I know is I hope I never have to work with your company if basic procedures can't even be comprehended.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Technically, it was in house because I'd been volunteering for years.
wait a moment.... you were volunteering doing the duties for nothing and then suddenly they pay you 6 figures????
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Last edited by Cynthetiq; 09-26-2007 at 12:54 PM..
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:52 PM   #26 (permalink)
Junkie
 
sapiens's Avatar
 
Location: Some place windy
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
They WERE taking things in a different direction and they had no one to head that new direction. In walks Willravel, and out walks no one. I took over for no one. Other board members came up with the idea, but none of them were ever responsible for it.
I can't speak specifically to your situation, but even cases like the one described, one person's success will often be at the expense of others (at least in a more general sense). For example, the company moves into a new direction, into a new market they have never been in before. Presumably, there are other competitors in that market and your success may have a negative impact on their success. Even if it is an entirely new market, presumably the product is competing with products in another market, your expansion may then have a negative impact on those individuals.
sapiens is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
You are wrong.. technically.. in the business sense. Even if they were taking things in a different direction, someone else could easily have filled the same position whether it be by volunteering or applying. Nobody else wanted the job? They chose you.
No one else was doing my job before me. Just because some other people were qualified doesn't mean they were doing the job before me. Why is this so complicated? People below be may have wanted the job, but they were not qualified. All those who are qualified are my peers, on the same level as I am now. Neither of them would have been getting a raise or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
wait a moment.... you were volunteering doing the duties for nothing and then suddenly they pay you 6 figures????
No. I was volunteering in a very low position, but they were aware of my business expertise. I occasionally helped out in the higher levels as a consultant.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:28 PM   #28 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Technically, it was in house because I'd been volunteering for years.

Just because you don't understand my specific situation doesn't mean I'm wrong. They WERE taking things in a different direction and they had no one to head that new direction. In walks Willravel, and out walks no one. I took over for no one. Other board members came up with the idea, but none of them were ever responsible for it.

I think as a general rule, people should always be sure before they come right out and say "you're wrong" to me. Or to anyone. It comes off as very condescending—whether you intended it that way or not—, and if the person you're speaking to isn't wrong, then you look even worse for being so sure.
will, I apologize if I came off as condescending. I didn't intend that. However, without knowing your specifics, then the safe assumption is to think that you fall into the vast majority of jobs.

If this is what happened, then it is one of the extremely rare occassions where no one is replaced at any level. I would venture that it represents a diminishingly small number of new jobs created regardless of industry. Most people are not hired to take companies in radically new directions.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:28 PM   #29 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
No one else was doing my job before me. Just because some other people were qualified doesn't mean they were doing the job before me. Why is this so complicated? People below be may have wanted the job, but they were not qualified. All those who are qualified are my peers, on the same level as I am now. Neither of them would have been getting a raise or anything.
No. I was volunteering in a very low position, but they were aware of my business expertise. I occasionally helped out in the higher levels as a consultant.
well, they could have gotten 3 people who were 1/3 qualified than you, and thus 3 people would have benefitted more from the job than just you.

I think that's the point that's being made here in which you are poorly defending. NO ONE is irreplaceable nor causes no harm. No one lives and operates in a vacuum.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
will, I apologize if I came off as condescending. I didn't intend that.
I figured it wasn't intended. It was just odd that you believed you were more familiar with my situation than I was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
However, without knowing your specifics, then the safe assumption is to think that you fall into the vast majority of jobs.
I agree it's rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
well, they could have gotten 3 people who were 1/3 qualified than you, and thus 3 people would have benefitted more from the job than just you.
Did they have the job? No. Look up "replaced". You are using the word incorrectly. I was the only person considered for the job, and my offer to help out was the reason they even pursued the project. So no, I replaced absolutely no one.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 04:17 PM   #31 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Did they have the job? No. Look up "replaced". You are using the word incorrectly. I was the only person considered for the job, and my offer to help out was the reason they even pursued the project. So no, I replaced absolutely no one.
I didn't state replace. I'm going for reasonable benefit to maximum people since that is pretty much the crux of this. Your position of high salary could easily be accommodated by 3 people getting paid roughly 1/3 of your salary. It not much different than the idea that the CEO of Kaiser getting paid millions in salary would easily benefit more people than just 1.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 09-27-2007, 06:50 AM   #32 (permalink)
Registered User
 
What I'm mostly confused about here, is how you volunteer for a VP position that is magically created. You say they knew of your expertise, yet if I were considering hiring a VP I damn sure wouldn't just take the first one who volunteered for that position.

Either way, the position that you didn't "replace" anyone may be true in one sense, yet as Cyn has pointed out, it would be just as easy to hire a team of people for less money than they paid you, and received the same result, which would have "helped" out 3 people instead of the singular you.

There is no such thing as job security.. none.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 09-27-2007, 07:18 AM   #33 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
This is kind of a silly argument going on.

Obviously to Will the key is someone losing something they had, in his case apparently that didn't happen. His moral compass feels good.

To others, the issue it is to doesn't matter if someone lost a job or not, morally its the same as the resources going to pay Will could be used for someone else.

I of course fall more into the second camp, but I can see Wills point, even if I wouldn't follow it.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 09-27-2007, 07:21 AM   #34 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
What I'm mostly confused about here, is how you volunteer for a VP position that is magically created. You say they knew of your expertise, yet if I were considering hiring a VP I damn sure wouldn't just take the first one who volunteered for that position.
Okay, time to get specific. I used to work for a local internet company that dealt in sales. I worked my way from management into a VP position there, but the CEO was a ponce and screwed the whole company up pretty bad. Once I realized this was the case, I started looking for work elsewhere. While I was working for this company, I was also volunteering my time at a local non-profit organization that deals with low income people. I did everything from handing stuff out to occasionally helping out with administrative stuff, as a volunteer. I liked helping out. Neeways, that non-profit was doing pretty well, and they decided that things needed to move in a direction in addition to the direction they were taking, and they knew about my business experience. They asked me if I would be interested in temporarily overseeing it, and I said sure. It went well, and the position is now permanent. I'm no longer making 6 figures as Cynth said above (yes, I took a pay cut), so I've also had to take an additional job with a local software company. They didn't just "hire he first one who volunteered". I have executive experience and, apparently, people skills that the jobs requires.
Willravel is offline  
 

Tags
advancement, expense

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:39 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360