What should I do with this girl? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ASU2003 · 09-02-2007, 06:57 AM

One of a very small number of girls that I consider a friend has some issues. I'll get right to the point; she has depression, bulimia, low self esteem, cuts herself sometimes, and won't see a therapist...

I want her to be a healthy girl, but is there anything I can do to help her besides just being a friend and talking to her?

I've read the 'write 10 nice things about yourself' thread, and when I ask her to tell me one good thing about her, she can't do it. But for some reason, if she was healthier, I would view her as almost perfect. I've even told her 10 things that were good about her.

She has an 18-year old younger sister that is skinny, attractive, popular and gets a lot of attention. This girl isn't exactly obese, but she is very self conscience about her weight. I'm wondering if some of her problems would go away if she was able to lose some weight, but I'm not going to be the one that tells her that.

I don't know, what should I do?

Plan9 · 09-02-2007, 07:27 AM

Looks like you did it already.

ASU2003 · 09-02-2007, 07:35 AM

Is that all that can be done? I know you can't change a person, but I want to make her life better. She is a good person, she just doesn't realize it.

DaveOrion · 09-02-2007, 08:31 AM

I've known similar women in the past few years..... They first must admit they have a problem, admit they need help, and then they must want help. You cant force them into any of this. When things get bad enough they may realize on their own, like an alcoholic hitting bottom, and then seek help. Until then all you can do is try and be a friend the best way you know how.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-harm

Self-injury (SI) or self-harm (SH) is deliberate injury inflicted by a person upon his or her own body without suicidal intent. Some scholars use more technical definitions related to specific aspects of this behaviour. These acts may be aimed at relieving otherwise unbearable emotions, sensations of unreality and numbness. It is listed in the DSM-IV-TR as a symptom of borderline personality disorder and is sometimes associated with mental illness, a history of trauma and abuse, eating disorders, or mental traits such as low self-esteem or perfectionism. There is a positive statistical correlation between self-injury and emotional abuse.

Self-injury may be an indicator of depression and/or other psychological problems. Therapy and skills training can be very useful for those who self-injure. The therapy module used will vary depending on the person's diagnosis and their individual needs.

DBT, or Dialectical behavioral therapy can be very successful for those with a personality disorder, and could potentially be used for those with other mental illnesses who exhibit self-injurious behavior. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is generally used to assist those with axis 1 diagnoses, such as depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. Diagnosis and treatment of the causes is thought by many to be the best approach to self-injury; but in some cases, particularly in clients with a personality disorder, this is not very effective, which is why more clinicians are starting to take a DBT approach in order to reduce the behavior itself. A person who is injuring themselves may be advised to use coping skills, such as journaling or taking a walk, when they have the urge to harm themselves. They may also be told to avoid having the objects they use to harm themselves within easy reach. People who rely on habitual self-injury are sometimes psychiatrically hospitalized, based on their stability, and their ability and especially their willingness to get help

wheelhomies · 09-02-2007, 12:28 PM

NEVER tell a person with bulimia that their problems would go away if they lost weight. actually if you could not think that, then that would be good too.

weight is a number, health is a lifestyle. if you want her to be healthier, then emphasize that her health is important and you think her habits are unhealthy. when listing off things that are positive about her, keep appearance out of it if you can. eating disorders stem from an obsession and losing weight might harm her more than help her if she does it for the wrong reasons.

and yeah, you can't force people to change. it's frustrating, i know, but she has to care; you doing so isn't enough. be supportive and let her know you'll be there if she needs you, but other than that it's out of your hands.

thingstodo · 09-03-2007, 07:43 AM

Not sure what you can do to help other than to continue to encourage her to see someone. She has quite a few symptoms, all of which have their best hope in therapy of some sort. She needs to understand what is behind her symptoms and then learn what she can do - with help - to deal with everything.

Martian · 09-03-2007, 02:14 PM

You can't save her. You can't help her, even, until she decides she's worth helping.

I'm sorry to be so harsh about it, but the reality is that sh'e showing a lot of self-destructive behaviour and clearly has some very deep-rooted issues. This is not something you can fix by being nice to her or paying her compliments and it won't go away if she loses weight, has cosmetic surgery or becomes more popular than her sister. It has very little to do with her sister or her weight or anything else, except that these are justifications for the fact that she doesn't value her own life.

This is not a case for laymen. She needs professional help; unfortunately, until she decides that she's worth helping that's not going to happen. In the meantime, the absolute best you can do is continue to be her friend and try not to get too worked up about it. The bottom line is that her path is laid out for her now and that only she can change it; if you let yourself get dragged down by the fact that she continues her destructive behaviour, all you're doing is harming yourself and not helping her.

So basically you just have to accept her for what she is. I know that's not easy, because you don't want to see your friend doing this to herself, but there's really no other option for you here. If and when she wants your help, she'll come to you.

bing bing · 11-08-2007, 05:40 AM

It sounds like she's got a lot stuff going on. If she's unwilling to see a psychologist who is proficient with Dialectical Behavior Therapy, your best bet is to provide her with some DBT self-help material.

There are a couple of good (and cheap) books out there that i recommend to people with Axis 2 - Cluster B issues: These are:

http://http://www.amazon.com/Dialect...4528142&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Let-Your-Emotions-Life/dp/1572243090/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/002-5461289-3959228?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194528142&sr=8-4

There are some excellent free resources available at
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/consumers.cfm
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/reso...cfm?mini_ID=19at

For a free and excellent online CBT program, you can point her to
http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/

From the information you've provided, she's probably in need of some basic self-soothing and impulse-control strategies.

analog · 11-08-2007, 09:39 PM

Whatever you do, do not fall into the trap of getting with her, thinking "if only this were fixed, it'd be perfect".

She needs to speak with someone who specializes in her type of self-image issues, and the eating/harm disorders that go along with it. Losing the weight won't fix her; her problems are not just on the surface.

Encourage her to recognize she has a problem with cutting and having an eating disorder, and that she should seek professional counseling for it.

And yes, that's about all you can do. You can read some books to better familiarize yourself, but you can't treat her. Be supportive, but don't just sit and validate her. She thinks she's trying to get healthy- she's not, she's doing something very [u]un[/i]healthy. She's doing unhealthy things to achieve what she thinks will be better health (aka skinnier).

Also, as was brought up, don't confuse the cutting with suicidal thought or action.

ASU2003 · 11-11-2007, 08:39 AM

She definetely has sucidal thoughts. And I know she needs professional help, but she is 24, lives at home and doesn't want her parents finding out that she has a long list of pyschological problems...

It is a massive trainwreck that is for sure.

I did the Moodgym thing a few years ago, and it worked for me.

09-02-2007, 06:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	What should I do with this girl? One of a very small number of girls that I consider a friend has some issues. I'll get right to the point; she has depression, bulimia, low self esteem, cuts herself sometimes, and won't see a therapist... I want her to be a healthy girl, but is there anything I can do to help her besides just being a friend and talking to her? I've read the 'write 10 nice things about yourself' thread, and when I ask her to tell me one good thing about her, she can't do it. But for some reason, if she was healthier, I would view her as almost perfect. I've even told her 10 things that were good about her. She has an 18-year old younger sister that is skinny, attractive, popular and gets a lot of attention. This girl isn't exactly obese, but she is very self conscience about her weight. I'm wondering if some of her problems would go away if she was able to lose some weight, but I'm not going to be the one that tells her that. I don't know, what should I do?

09-02-2007, 07:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Looks like you did it already. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-02-2007, 08:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	I've known similar women in the past few years..... They first must admit they have a problem, admit they need help, and then they must want help. You cant force them into any of this. When things get bad enough they may realize on their own, like an alcoholic hitting bottom, and then seek help. Until then all you can do is try and be a friend the best way you know how. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-harm Self-injury (SI) or self-harm (SH) is deliberate injury inflicted by a person upon his or her own body without suicidal intent. Some scholars use more technical definitions related to specific aspects of this behaviour. These acts may be aimed at relieving otherwise unbearable emotions, sensations of unreality and numbness. It is listed in the DSM-IV-TR as a symptom of borderline personality disorder and is sometimes associated with mental illness, a history of trauma and abuse, eating disorders, or mental traits such as low self-esteem or perfectionism. There is a positive statistical correlation between self-injury and emotional abuse. Self-injury may be an indicator of depression and/or other psychological problems. Therapy and skills training can be very useful for those who self-injure. The therapy module used will vary depending on the person's diagnosis and their individual needs. DBT, or Dialectical behavioral therapy can be very successful for those with a personality disorder, and could potentially be used for those with other mental illnesses who exhibit self-injurious behavior. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is generally used to assist those with axis 1 diagnoses, such as depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. Diagnosis and treatment of the causes is thought by many to be the best approach to self-injury; but in some cases, particularly in clients with a personality disorder, this is not very effective, which is why more clinicians are starting to take a DBT approach in order to reduce the behavior itself. A person who is injuring themselves may be advised to use coping skills, such as journaling or taking a walk, when they have the urge to harm themselves. They may also be told to avoid having the objects they use to harm themselves within easy reach. People who rely on habitual self-injury are sometimes psychiatrically hospitalized, based on their stability, and their ability and especially their willingness to get help __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 09-02-2007 at 10:39 AM..*

09-02-2007, 12:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
wheelhomies Upright Location: New York	NEVER tell a person with bulimia that their problems would go away if they lost weight. actually if you could not think that, then that would be good too. weight is a number, health is a lifestyle. if you want her to be healthier, then emphasize that her health is important and you think her habits are unhealthy. when listing off things that are positive about her, keep appearance out of it if you can. eating disorders stem from an obsession and losing weight might harm her more than help her if she does it for the wrong reasons. and yeah, you can't force people to change. it's frustrating, i know, but she has to care; you doing so isn't enough. be supportive and let her know you'll be there if she needs you, but other than that it's out of your hands. __________________ "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence

09-03-2007, 07:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	Not sure what you can do to help other than to continue to encourage her to see someone. She has quite a few symptoms, all of which have their best hope in therapy of some sort. She needs to understand what is behind her symptoms and then learn what she can do - with help - to deal with everything. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

09-02-2007, 07:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Is that all that can be done? I know you can't change a person, but I want to make her life better. She is a good person, she just doesn't realize it.

09-03-2007, 02:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	You can't save her. You can't help her, even, until she decides she's worth helping. I'm sorry to be so harsh about it, but the reality is that sh'e showing a lot of self-destructive behaviour and clearly has some very deep-rooted issues. This is not something you can fix by being nice to her or paying her compliments and it won't go away if she loses weight, has cosmetic surgery or becomes more popular than her sister. It has very little to do with her sister or her weight or anything else, except that these are justifications for the fact that she doesn't value her own life. This is not a case for laymen. She needs professional help; unfortunately, until she decides that she's worth helping that's not going to happen. In the meantime, the absolute best you can do is continue to be her friend and try not to get too worked up about it. The bottom line is that her path is laid out for her now and that only she can change it; if you let yourself get dragged down by the fact that she continues her destructive behaviour, all you're doing is harming yourself and not helping her. So basically you just have to accept her for what she is. I know that's not easy, because you don't want to see your friend doing this to herself, but there's really no other option for you here. If and when she wants your help, she'll come to you. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

11-08-2007, 05:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
bing bing Addict Location: Melbourne, Australia	It sounds like she's got a lot stuff going on. If she's unwilling to see a psychologist who is proficient with Dialectical Behavior Therapy, your best bet is to provide her with some DBT self-help material. There are a couple of good (and cheap) books out there that i recommend to people with Axis 2 - Cluster B issues: These are: http://http://www.amazon.com/Dialect...4528142&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Let-Your-Emotions-Life/dp/1572243090/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/002-5461289-3959228?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194528142&sr=8-4 http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Let-Your-Emotions-Life/dp/1572243090/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/002-5461289-3959228?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194528142&sr=8-4 There are some excellent free resources available at http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/consumers.cfm http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/reso...cfm?mini_ID=19at For a free and excellent online CBT program, you can point her to http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/ From the information you've provided, she's probably in need of some basic self-soothing and impulse-control strategies.

11-08-2007, 09:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
analog Banned	Whatever you do, do not fall into the trap of getting with her, thinking "if only this were fixed, it'd be perfect". She needs to speak with someone who specializes in her type of self-image issues, and the eating/harm disorders that go along with it. Losing the weight won't fix her; her problems are not just on the surface. Encourage her to recognize she has a problem with cutting and having an eating disorder, and that she should seek professional counseling for it. And yes, that's about all you can do. You can read some books to better familiarize yourself, but you can't treat her. Be supportive, but don't just sit and validate her. She thinks she's trying to get healthy- she's not, she's doing something very [u]un[/i]healthy. She's doing unhealthy things to achieve what she thinks will be better health (aka skinnier). Also, as was brought up, don't confuse the cutting with suicidal thought or action.

11-11-2007, 08:39 AM	#10 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	She definetely has sucidal thoughts. And I know she needs professional help, but she is 24, lives at home and doesn't want her parents finding out that she has a long list of pyschological problems... It is a massive trainwreck that is for sure. I did the Moodgym thing a few years ago, and it worked for me.