butthead

I haven't heard from them in sometime, but I believe most recovered from their presumed DXM-induced impairment after having discontinued use for several months.

Martel

As far as I know, there haven't been any cases where people reported 'permanent' impairment as a result of DXM use. So I guess your friends are pretty much par for the course.

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Anamnesis

axolotls

Everyone needs to get a little f-d up once in awhile. It's to what extreme they want to take it. Most people look down on "illegal" drug users but have no problem downing handfuls of Vicodin when their back hurts and until the bottle runs out.

Key thing here for you younger people. All of this will slowly eat away at your liver and gall bladder (your body's filter).

So if you take anything TAKE IT IN MODERATION or you'll be paying for it down the road (a while but trust me you don't want to go there)

And if you're gonna get high... get high with a friend.

axolotls

But it makes you lazy as hell. Some people can't take it and I know a few... Sitting on the couch at home all day watching MTV and living with their parents at age 30...

axolotls

I stand corrected/

MacGnG

excessive use of DXM, PCP, and Ketamine (all Dissociative by chemical structure) have been proven to cause severe brain damage. moderate short term use does not seem to cuase many problems besides standard side effects.
<hr>
anyway just do research before you do any drugs and dont do them too much

butthead

The irony is intense. You are the person making idiot statements.

Generally, "shrooms" containing LSD-like compounds are amazingly non-toxic. There may be unpleasant effects, but there is no neurotoxicity. Those compounds bind to serotonin receptors.

Also, your extreme hypothetical scenarios are weak.

When made properly, there will be no trace of toxic precursor chemicals in amphetamine or methamphetamine. Do you know what is in cigarettes? Not saying that makes using speed any better, but is seems the consensus is not concerned with what they are inhaling in their cigarettes, so why meth?

isandro

If there's one source I trust to give me information without having a political agenda, it's erowid.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_effects.shtml
Doesn't say anything about overdosing though.
As with XTC, people don't usually overdose from the drug itself, but rather from dehydration. Supposedly one person dies each month at a rave.
Thing is, with all the extra energy and the vibe going on, people dance for hours on end without drinking and their body goes into hyperthermia and eventually death.
To say that XTC kills is more or less like saying alcohol kills (smashing one's car into a tree). Cause and effect.
I can't find any info about overdosing that I trust right now, but I can imagine taking so much meth that the heart starts racing and eventually gives up.

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-Life, liberty and the pursuit of hamburgers.

axolotls

Please look at this if you don't think speed is made from toxic chemicals:

http://www2.state.id.us/dhw/behs/meth_labs_brochure.htm

cold tablets
alcohol
starter fluid
camping fuel
anti-freeze
drain cleaner
rock salt
farm fertilizer
red devil lye
matches
iodine
acids
lithium batteries

Of course they are used in it's production and not all ingredients are supposed to wind up in the final product.

I live and lived in areas where a lot of meth labs are. Everytime one gets busted they have to call a Haz-Mat team out to clean it up. Very expensive and time consuming.

Butthead said "When made properly, there will be no trace of toxic precursor chemicals in amphetamine or methamphetamine. "

Until it's legalized, you don't know what you are getting when you buy the stuff. Don't be ignorant.

I'll repeat again.. You don't know what you are getting when you buy the stuff.

I agree that Psilocybin is probably the safest among the hallucinogenics.

Your choice man.. I don't care but you need to get over your bias and look at both sides and in between.

bermuDa

and how often is meth made properly anyways? I'm sure if you saw who was making your speed and where it was made, you'd think twice before popping it.

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I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

butthead

Which is a problem with prohibition, not with meth, and since you have no real data about that, it shouldn't really be used in an argument as a main point. It's a scare tactic. True, you don't know much about what you're getting, but chances are it's not going to kill you instantly (or even eventuallly, unlike cigarettes).

Get over my bias? How about you put up a decent argument, then we'll talk. What methamphetamine is made with is irrelevant to its safety since its unlikely those toxic chemicals are going to be present in the methamphetamine in large enough doses to cause any significant damage. What is relevant is what really is in there, and since neither of us have any actual data about that, maybe we should shut the fuck up about it.

Right, because "my" meth is made by that skinny as dirty girl down the street with black patches around her eyes. Believing in stereotypes and prejudging is really awesome for lack of a real argument.

Par for the course, from what I see on this entire board when it comes to drug arguments.

So now meth is all dangerous because of possible low doses of chemicals I could most likely find in much larger amount in a pack of cigarettes (oh that's IF dirty girl makes meth, which she doesn't, that's why she's dirty girl). I also don't buy from dirty girl and have no reason to believe any methamphetamine I would or have bought contained any precursor chemicals any deadlier than I would find in a cigarette.

Well gentleman, if that isn't the argument to end all arguments...

axolotls

Butthead:

A serious question for you: Have you ever snorted meth? Done it for a while? Have you been around people who do it? Have you seen the short-term effects it has people? Have you seen or experienced meth withdrawals?

And most importantly, have you ever made or witnessed the making of meth?

I am not attacking you. I just want to see if you are responding based on experience.

debaser

The only good thing about meth is that most people who are stupid enough to use it die before they breed. Good riddance.

"Proof" meth is harmful (in pure form, nevermind the crap you get on the streets):

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic859.htm

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axolotls

That article reminded me of "ICE". Crystallized meth that they inhale (after burning) in Hawaii. Yes they do it elsewhere... Probably nastier than crack.

butthead

I never, ever motherfucking said that methamphetamine was harmless. NEVER EVER FUCKING EVER.

I'm responding objectively using facts. If I seem somewhat bias, it is because I believe you not using being objective enough. I've used methamphetamine extensively in the past, been around people who did, lived with people who were addicted to it, and I know pharmcologically what it does and I know what is likely to happen after chronic, high-doses of methamphetamine.

Will you try responding to my points objectively now, using facts?

axolotls

What are your points?

butthead

Precursor chemicals are not a reason to think badly of a drug.

axolotls

Can't figure out how a "dirty"girl got mixed into this discussion or what your point was. Also, comparing cigarettes to crystal meth is not even a worthwhile subject to debate.

Unless you want to have a controlled study of the overall health (mental and physical) effects of smoking to a group of 1,000 people versus the effects of crystal on 1,000 people. And if you do... let's make it PPV and make a couple bucks off it.

RemyLebeau97

Drugs are just bad...ummm k

butthead

I'm defending that meth is not some terrible ass drug that's going to rape your children and shoot your dog. It's a drug and does not have the capacity to be good or bad in such a general context.

Then someone comes up to me saying "ooo, meth is so bad and here's why" because it is made with toxic precursor chemicals (like a lot of the fucking drugs people take safely). I saw this as a retarded argument and pointed it out. If you're going to go all apeshit because of what meth is made with (btw, those chemicals are extracted from the final product), then you'd better go double apeshit at the idea of millions dying annually by self-poisoning by cigarette. Keep it in perspective.

I was then hit with more weak arguments, such as who makes methamphetamine. Pharmaceutical companies do and presumably evil drug making junkies do too. "Dirty girl" is a heroin chic cliche of "meth junkies", a stereotype many ignorant people believe is responsible for making methamphetamine. It was a joking way to dismiss the terrible argument of "who makes meth".

Read above.

Meth is a drug, meth has potential for positive and negative use. Chronic, high-dose methamphetamine use is unwise and will lead to trouble.

splck

I know people like that, and they never touch dope.

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nice line eh?

Martel

Just to join the ever-growing chorus, the above statement is completely bogus. Saying that you only get high because they're toxic is utterly baseless and unfounded. Please do show us the published paper where you found this particular nugget.

And no, it doesn't impair your senses, or your judgment. You aren't going to suddenly find yourself jumping out the window because you think you can fly. It just doesn't happen. Period.


And I'd also like to point out that this is conjecture. PCP is known to be neurotoxic, but DXM and ketamine, which are very different, chemically, have not been shown to be neurotoxic in humans.

cpomdima

I would definetly reccommend trying some psilocybin (mushrooms). If you have a good handle one life it will just enhance your setting, not control your thoughts.

Yeah, set and setting, an important point not mentioned yet.

Set= The expectations you have about the drug you are about to take, your notions, your attitude, your predisposed weakness and/or strength to addiction, your sense of reality

Setting= Any info you pick up from your senses around you. The place you are the people you're with. The chance of risk.

mdma, psilocybn, lsd etc. Are all drugs that are entirely dependent on "set" and "setting". If this is what you are looking for, go try some shrooms.

Mushrooms give a very subtle type of hallucination, they emphasize natural patterns and bring out outlines and variations of contrast. They do not out and out cause real hallucinations.

For instance, if you stare at a deep shag rug on shrooms, the pile may become increasingly thicker or more dense, suddenly becoming a forest of thick mangy fibers. Deep down you know its not real, you still have that sense of control over this drug.

Definetly look at patterns, aztec type art. get a bunch of art books or watch "The wall"

Try shrooms before acid, I agree acid is much harsher.

The point of this is that drugs can be a great way to find out what makes you tick, they have helped me figure out how my mind works many times in the past. If you are looking to LEARN, try a drug such as psilocybin, mdma, lsd, dmt, etc. Mind-drugs. If you are looking to get fucked-up, a body-drug, you are looking at feeling drugs like cocaine, speed, pain killers etc.

Don't touch heroin. please. The main premise of heroin is very simple, stop every single nerve in your body from producing a pain repsonse and voila a very unnatural feeling of bliss and addictive potential rivaling nicotine.


Oh yeah, take this advice at your own risk. I am not responsible for your actions. Do research on the net, don't talk to people, they just re-hash stupid wives tales.

When you think you've done enough research, do some more. Seperate truth from fiction and keep telling yourself.

If you ever get in a bad-feeling-
1. remove yourself from the setting you are in.
2. Get the hell away from people who are not on the drug you are on.
3. Stay the hell away from sober people if you are on a mind-altering drug. They will bother you, very much.
4. tell yourself: "I am under the influence of a drug right now. A drug that will wear off. This feeling is not permanent. I will feel normal tomorrow."

Let me know if I can give you any advice about anything else. I tried many "new angles of thought". Learned what I wanted to know, don't do anything any more like it. (Well not unless you count, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol)

Chris

niobius2

E and nothing else, well maybe some MJ as well and some MR to boot

Martel

Some good advice, cpomdima.

I had always wondered if anyone else out there categorized drugs into mind- and body-, it's nice to see someone with the same ideas every once in a while.

axolotls

Dude. You are getting totally bent out of shape. You really need to calm down, relax and start taking your meds again

butthead

Nice argument.

axolotls

Unfortunately, I was just repeating what was told to me a long time ago by some guys who were shrooming at the time. I never really cared to know the mechanism of getting tweaked. But after being criticized on that erroneous statement. I concede. Never mistake a seemingly intelligent conversation while your under the influence for truth unless it can be backed up. Which brings me to a few grade school and high school teachers I had.

axolotls

Not an argument. An observation since everyone is gettomg way to emotional and screaming (well that's what it seems like) to back up everything with facts while not doing the same for themselves. Remember this is just a forum.

MacGnG

THE WORST DRUG IS ALCOHOL AND NO ONE CAN ARGUE AGAINST THAT!

have a nice day

skinbag

First off- I'm not preaching I smoked pot daily as available for 13 years , done lotsa shrooms, acid about 10x, coke 1x, and most of my freinds are fucked up one way or another do to their use. I have quit everything, tobacco was the hardest, and don't kid yourself about "experimenting". I would bet you're a kid (under 25) as far as use and time are concerned, that's too young to know how this really works. Your peers may be fine for now, but that's how insidious this shit is. I've seen people jump off roofs, bottom out , get arrested, fuck people they have no business with, get arrested, run, etc. You get the point. We all start off "experimenting". That's why it's called recreational use, man. In some places Russian Roulette is considered recreation!
If you want to play this way you really need to take a deep, quiet look at your inside condition and observe causes&conditions. Something is amiss! I know cause I've taken the long way around and paid with a large part of my humanity. And I was the lucky one with balance..The one people said "See it's not so bad-He's on the honor roll and using everyday!" Well sometimes you find out too fucking late that drugs sneak up on you. I've done well and still wish I hadn't gotten involved. You will have the same desire, only you will be older and more beat up when you bottom out and have to face it. This is from a functional addict! past tense luckily..
Anyway--That said: As long as you don't have any potential mental illness (ask family about genetic history, especially Schizophrenia), shrooms can be a great way to take a look at life with a new face on. go with psilocybe cubensis- your basic white stem golden-brown capped variety. They are the most common and most stable. Some other varieties can be up to 30x stronger. Had 4grams of those once and shit you not I thought I was dying and didn't care. Would've been a good way to go, but life is too short as is- don't rush it ok? Most importantly, go outside with friends and a cell phone safe from society and enjoy yourself. Drink lots of water after your tripping so you don't puke.( 1-2 hours in)
As for speed- no fun, addictive, and a heart attack waiting to happen. Your head will tingle- Big fuckin deal! Not worth it.
Ecstacy- really fun, expensive, but addictive. After the 1st time, you will never feel as good, so walk away, far away after 1 use. My raver friends who didn't are depressed and it's been years since they used. It taps your brain chemistry FOREVER.. a sharp sword- be careful!
K is shitty from the outside ( I dodged that bullet) but the same friends used it for some reason. Desperation I think..They sure as hell didn't appear to ever have any fun on it.
Coke suck people up and leaves holes on an MRI of your brain. No shit! I work in medicine and heard this from a guy who does MRI's for a living. First-hand friends have gone down on this one, and one has remained functional, but still craves it so bad he's debilitated once every few months. So you feel good for awhile..You will pay in the long run for this one.
Acid is not as good as shrooms in my opinion, and will give you an achy spine from overuse. Goes away though..See shrooms on the mental illness precautions.
Again- I was lucky and got out wounded..Most don't- I was like you and I know no-one can stop you. If your as independent as I was, you sure as hell better be as mentally stable and as willfull, Cause your gonna need it!!!
Good Luck Friend...