Legal question - signature of a minor - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

xaneidolon · 07-27-2004, 10:17 AM

This may be a strange one...

I was out of town when a $6K shippment arrived. It was damaged in transit, but my daughter signed for it anyway. She's 13. The company from which I bought the consigned shippment says:

We apologize that you were unable to be home when your shipment was
delivered. However, without notation made on the Bill of Lading, it the
seller's word against the buyer's. Thank you.

Am I out of luck? Is a 13 year old's signature in Utah legally binding? Do I have any options?

Thanks in advance.

MSD · 07-27-2004, 11:10 AM

From "Outlaw's Legal Service"
http://www.outlawslegal.com/refer/contracts3.htm

Quote:

Minors' Contracts.

It has been said that a minor cannot make a contract. This is not true. Minors can and do make contracts every day.

1. A minor's contract is voidable. The minor may repudiate it at his/her option.

a. The other party, unless (s)he also lacks legal capacity, is bound to the agreement with the minor.

2. In most states, a natural person under the age of 18 is a minor, and his/her contracts are voidable.

a. How old a minor looks, or how experienced (s)he is, is irrelevant to the minor's power to repudiate a contract.

3. Generally, a minor has the power to repudiate most contracts (s)he makes while a minor and for a reasonable time after reaching majority.

a. However, until steps are taken to repudiate the contract, the minor remains liable.

b. Public policy supports enforcement of certain contracts entered into by minors, e.g., military enlistment and auto insurance contracts. Some jurisdictions do not allow repudiation of a real estate transaction until the minor reaches the age of majority.

4. A minor's contract is voidable, not void, and it is voidable only by the minor. (Void means having no legal effect. Voidable means capable of later being rendered void. This distinction is important.)

a. EXAMPLE: Minor enters into a contract with Competent Adult. The contract is voidable. It is not void, and, unless and until Minor repudiates it, the contract is binding.

b. Any timely unequivocal act by the minor that indicates an intent to repudiate the contract is sufficient.

c. A minor can repudiate a purely executory contract by merely informing the other party.

d. When the contract has been partially or wholly executed, the minor must, if possible, return any consideration received from the other party.

Agreements for Sale of Goods for $500 or more.

Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) governs the sale of goods.

1. Section 2-201 of the UCC provides that a contract for the sale of goods for the price of $500 or more is not enforceable unless there is some writing sufficient to indicate that a contract for sale has been made between the parties.

a. Goods are defined as movable personal property.

--1) The definition expressly includes growing crops and unborn animals.

2. The basic rule, however, has many exceptions; e.g., an oral contract for special-order goods may be enforceable. Chapter 13, Sale of Goods, must be consulted.

Cliff's Notes: As long as your daughter does not repudiate the agreement she made when she signed for the shipment (Which I believe is a legally binding contract,) you should be able to recoup most of your loss in small-claims court.

shakran · 07-27-2004, 02:09 PM

Trouble is, this was not a contract. It was an acknowledgement of receipt. The contract was when you paid them and they shipped the goods.

So the question really is, under Utah law, can your minor revoke her acknowledgement that the goods got there.

You may also want to take this up with whoever shipped it. After all, it's not really the company's fault, it's FedEx (or whoever) who broke it.

Reese · 07-28-2004, 02:52 AM

It shouldn't matter who signed for it, you should still have the same rights you would if you had been there to sign.

Jaca · 08-02-2004, 03:57 PM

If you paid for the purchase with a credit card, contact your credit card company ASAP - you should almost definitely be able to receive a credit, though you would have to attempt to return the merchandise to the merchant first.

william · 08-14-2004, 04:17 PM

I'm no lawyer, but I've worked the shipping/receiving sides of business. She signed to acknowledge receipt of the package, not the condition of the product inside. The UPS/FedEx/DHL carrier is not going to sit around and wait for the package to be opened and inspected - they don't have time.
Most larger shipments have a notice on the outside of the box to notify as soon as damage is found. (Ideally that would be on receipt.)
A decent company would honestly work w/you to resolve this. You are one dealing w/them. They are one dealing w/many.

rival · 08-14-2004, 04:52 PM

I work for FedEx, so I can tell you what will probably happen if you shipped thru us.

1) Minors are not allowed to sign for packages, so it's basically as if the courier just left it on your front step. When you call customer service let them know the package was damaged in transit and wasn't signed for by an adult.

2) If the shipper didn't insure the package for the $6,000 it's worth you'll be getting a maxium of $500.

Good luck.

BoomTruck · 08-19-2004, 08:59 AM

What's the policy if FedEx drops a package hard enough to break the contents (electric motor, clutch assembly, and a gear reducer, broke the housing of the clutch completely apart and knocked the fan guard off the motor) in half, sloppily reboxes it (stacks the parts atop each other, tapes 2 smaller boxes together, and tears the packing slip bag off the old box and tapes it to the new one), then finally delivers it a week after they said it would be there (after extensive cage-rattling on the phone)? It took 3 days to get from California to the Brookfield, MO facility. It sat there over 10 days. And Brookfield is less than 2 hours from here.

I know it's too late to get anything out of them, but I am still curious.

Tulkinghorn · 08-28-2004, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william

I'm no lawyer, but I've worked the shipping/receiving sides of business. She signed to acknowledge receipt of the package, not the condition of the product inside. The UPS/FedEx/DHL carrier is not going to sit around and wait for the package to be opened and inspected - they don't have time.
Most larger shipments have a notice on the outside of the box to notify as soon as damage is found. (Ideally that would be on receipt.)
A decent company would honestly work w/you to resolve this. You are one dealing w/them. They are one dealing w/many.

I am a lawyer, but not a specialist in this area of the law, so do _not_ treat my comments as legal advice: if you have further trouble after telling the shipper to stuff it and come pick up the damaged goods, check out a lawyer who handles UCC (uniform commercial code) issues in your state.

Nonetheless, I will say that the initial postings about whether minors can enter into contracts are off the mark. Your daughter did not sign a contract, and unless she was specifically authorized by you to receive shipments on your behalf, and thus was your agent, her signature should have no power to bind you. The supplier/shipping company are out of luck here, unless you specifically contracted to assume the liability for any problems with the shipment (as determined by the UCC, see comment about checking with local lawyer, above).

She just acknowledged receipt of a package, which would only be relevant if the package went missing and they wanted to prove it was received at your house.

Meanwhile, congratulations for living out what would be an excellent bar exam question.

kazoo · 08-28-2004, 10:49 PM

IANAL, but my initial question is whether or not the package bore evidence of damage that the reasonable person would note insofar as questioning damage to the contents of said package. If the package looks good, and the girl signs, she acknowledges receipt thereof, nothing more. If the box looked like it was hit by a bus, that should have been noted.

Was the shipment insured, and if so, by whom? Things that I buy on eBay are shipped within the limits of the handler (UPS, FEDEX), and if those limits are exceeded, I need to pay for additional coverage. Likewise, when I ship products to others, the recipient can accept the limits of the packing ticket/airbill, or pay for full valuation coverage.

07-27-2004, 10:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
xaneidolon Tilted	Legal question - signature of a minor This may be a strange one... I was out of town when a $6K shippment arrived. It was damaged in transit, but my daughter signed for it anyway. She's 13. The company from which I bought the consigned shippment says: We apologize that you were unable to be home when your shipment was delivered. However, without notation made on the Bill of Lading, it the seller's word against the buyer's. Thank you. Am I out of luck? Is a 13 year old's signature in Utah legally binding? Do I have any options? Thanks in advance.

07-28-2004, 02:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	It shouldn't matter who signed for it, you should still have the same rights you would if you had been there to sign. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

08-19-2004, 08:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
BoomTruck Insane Location: On a gravel road rough enought to knock fillings out of teeth.	What's the policy if FedEx drops a package hard enough to break the contents (electric motor, clutch assembly, and a gear reducer, broke the housing of the clutch completely apart and knocked the fan guard off the motor) in half, sloppily reboxes it (stacks the parts atop each other, tapes 2 smaller boxes together, and tears the packing slip bag off the old box and tapes it to the new one), then finally delivers it a week after they said it would be there (after extensive cage-rattling on the phone)? It took 3 days to get from California to the Brookfield, MO facility. It sat there over 10 days. And Brookfield is less than 2 hours from here. I know it's too late to get anything out of them, but I am still curious. __________________ Judge me all you want, but keep the verdict to yourself.

08-28-2004, 10:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
kazoo Psycho Location: Where the night things are	IANAL, but my initial question is whether or not the package bore evidence of damage that the reasonable person would note insofar as questioning damage to the contents of said package. If the package looks good, and the girl signs, she acknowledges receipt thereof, nothing more. If the box looked like it was hit by a bus, that should have been noted. Was the shipment insured, and if so, by whom? Things that I buy on eBay are shipped within the limits of the handler (UPS, FEDEX), and if those limits are exceeded, I need to pay for additional coverage. Likewise, when I ship products to others, the recipient can accept the limits of the packing ticket/airbill, or pay for full valuation coverage. __________________ There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity -Big Daddy

07-27-2004, 02:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Trouble is, this was not a contract. It was an acknowledgement of receipt. The contract was when you paid them and they shipped the goods. So the question really is, under Utah law, can your minor revoke her acknowledgement that the goods got there. You may also want to take this up with whoever shipped it. After all, it's not really the company's fault, it's FedEx (or whoever) who broke it.

08-02-2004, 03:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jaca Upright	If you paid for the purchase with a credit card, contact your credit card company ASAP - you should almost definitely be able to receive a credit, though you would have to attempt to return the merchandise to the merchant first.

08-14-2004, 04:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
william Psycho	I'm no lawyer, but I've worked the shipping/receiving sides of business. She signed to acknowledge receipt of the package, not the condition of the product inside. The UPS/FedEx/DHL carrier is not going to sit around and wait for the package to be opened and inspected - they don't have time. Most larger shipments have a notice on the outside of the box to notify as soon as damage is found. (Ideally that would be on receipt.) A decent company would honestly work w/you to resolve this. You are one dealing w/them. They are one dealing w/many.

08-14-2004, 04:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
rival Crazy Location: Pittsburgh, Pa	I work for FedEx, so I can tell you what will probably happen if you shipped thru us. 1) Minors are not allowed to sign for packages, so it's basically as if the courier just left it on your front step. When you call customer service let them know the package was damaged in transit and wasn't signed for by an adult. 2) If the shipper didn't insure the package for the $6,000 it's worth you'll be getting a maxium of $500. Good luck.