Help me become a masterbaker. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KellyC · 05-03-2011, 12:34 PM

I love the smell of freshly baked bread. Since I have a lot of time to spare recently I've decided to take up baking and fill my house with this wonderful smell.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask to get me started.

1) Pizza stone/baking stone - What's a good stone? I just went to Target to look for one and they only have one for $13.99, which comes with a dough roller and pizza cutter. I don't trust cheap products so I didn't buy it. I saw online there are several different types, and some goes well over $50. I want to get a good one to save myself the hassle of trial-and-error so is there any recommendation?

2) Yeast - turns out there's a bunch of kind and I don't know which one to use and for what purpose. Is there a difference between the ones that come in a small package vs the one that comes in a jar?

3) Flour - All-purpose flour vs bread flour? Is there a really good brand that I should buy? Can I use bread flour to make pizza dough?

The bread I want to bake should look like a loaf, crispy on the outside, lightly sweet and moist and fluffy on the inside and can be eaten as a stand alone snack, or with meat and even jam. Does that make sense? I'll move on to other types of bread eventually but that's my #1 goal.

Thanks!

Charlatan · 05-03-2011, 04:50 PM

Some advice on pizza stones: Which pizza stone should I buy? | Serious Eats : Talk : Cooking and Baking

Yeast? It depends on the recipe you are using. Some call for sourdough, some call for fresh, some call for instant. You will know what you like and prefer once you start using it.

An article on Fresh Yeast: Pizza Protips: Working with Fresh Yeast | Slice Pizza Blog

As for Flour, again, it depends on the recipe. Some call for using Bread flour over All-purpose. Bread flour has more proteins than All-purpose.

The best advice I can give, is just start baking bread. Try different recipes and learn from experience what the different ingredients do. Experiment.

Yeast in general: Pizza Protips: Yeast | Slice Pizza Blog

LordEden · 05-03-2011, 05:25 PM

Your title seriously made my cringe, as I thought of another "mastachef" and his recipes.

*****

I wish I could answer more questions on this, but I am still a novice baker. I'll still give you the knowledge I've gleaned from messing with dough.

Pizza stone? I don't really use one (I like my pizza a bit on the doughy side) but I'll pass this link on that was given to me by Snowy or Amonkie (I forget which one) for a DIY pizza stone that is light on the wallet.

DIY: Make a Homemade Pizza Stone for $5 Dollars - Planet Green

Yeast: I use Fleischmann's active dry yeast, but it's only cause I can't find any different kinds of yeast in my town. Charlatan's link on yeast summed up a lot of what I could say, so I'd read it. The only difference between packet yeast and jarred yeast is that most recipes I've come across call for a packet of yeast. Packets make it easy to measure, but are more expensive. [For the record, when a recipe calls for a packet of yeast, it is equal to 2.25 teaspoons of yeast.]

Jarred yeast needs to be refrigerated and packet does not. Yeast needs to come up to room temp before proofing so packets save time in that aspect. I'd say go with packets until you get a few loafs under your belt and then upgrade to jars. It really depends on how much bread/dough you make a week. If this is going to be a once in a while thing, go packets.

Having baking powder and baking soda on hand isn't a bad idea. I've had a lot of recipes call for it and the shelf life on the items are long. It is a good investment if you plan on baking a lot of different items.

Flour: I've come to find out, you can't have enough flour. I use AP flour for most things, bread flour for heavier loafs, and have 3 other flours in my cabinet (Semolina, Corn Meal, and Whole Wheat) for various reasons. If you really get into baking, you are going to have a mectric crapton of flours around.

Flour, Types of Flour, How To Buy Flour, How To Store FlourBuying

I couldn't find the exact link to the article I read on flour, but that sums it up on flours.

Tools of the trade are a good thing to have. I have two sets of measuring spoons, a rolling pin, two 5x9 bread pans, and a host of other things. Baking takes a lot of tools, but just start small and work your way up. You don't need a bread machine (tho they help) or a Standing mixer like snowy has (she bakes way to much), those things are costly (She went the easy route and got married to get one).

Recipes are important and where you find them is as well. I've heard good things about

The Bread Bible

, but haven't looked at it myself. I get my recipes off of http://allrecipes.com or http://www.bakespace.com which can be hit or miss. Snowy and I discussed this earlier and she doesn't hit those sites. The recipes are not tested and can be difficult to reproduce a good bread out of them. What works in one kitchen doesn't always work in another. Like I said, hit or miss.

All and all I'd say, get you a good book and play around in the kitchen. Baking is a science as cooking is an art. Baking is precise and cooking has a lot of wiggle room when it comes to recipes. Follow the recipes exactly to the gram or you end up with rock hard baseball like rolls.

snowy · 05-03-2011, 07:21 PM

Yay, bread!

First, save yourself the anguish and buy yourself a thermometer. They're $15 and they'll tell you when 1) the temperature is right to proof yeast (if you're doing that), and 2) when your loaf is done. Most bread books of quality will tell you a temperature that the bread should hit.

For beginners without a scale, the basic recipes presented in the Joy of Cooking are a good place to start. An enriched bread worth trying--it's easy for beginners and extremely tasty/versatile--is the milk bread from Joy of Cooking. It doesn't necessarily have the crispy crust you're looking for, but if you make it in loaf pans, it is a loaf shape, slices easily, and makes a great sandwich. Also, in the Baking Bread thread, I have a recipe posted that is an adaptation of the Joy of Cooking's Fast White Bread using white whole wheat flours.

On yeast: Instant yeast is being more commonly called for in recipes. You can find it in packets or jars. Look for yeasts labeled "fast rise" or "quick rise." I prefer to use active dry yeast. I can buy it in bulk from the hippie food co-op for significantly less money (about 75% off) than the same quantity of yeast in a jar from the store. ADY can be used in any recipe calling for instant by increasing the amount of yeast by 25%. ADY must be proofed in warm liquid (105-115) prior to use. Packets or jars don't make a huge difference. If you really are looking to be a masterbaker, buy the jar. As you get into expanding your repetoire of breads, you will be using varying amounts of yeast. Not to mention, owning a quantity of yeast also means you can make yeasted waffles. Fresh yeast can typically be found in the section with the butter at the grocery store. It's a little more delicate than either instant or active yeast, and expires quickly. I would only buy fresh yeast if a specific recipe I called for wanted fresh yeast, but I've baked with some of Julia Child's old recipes calling for fresh yeast by substituting ADY, and haven't had any problems. The amount of fresh yeast called for is equal to the amount of ADY you substitute.

Most bread recipes, except those that need high-gluten flours (i.e. bagels), can be made with all-purpose flour. Typically, a good recipe will specify which kind of flour. Bread flour is easy to get. You absolutely can use it for making pizza dough. As Eden stated, you will own more and more flours (and ingredients) as you increase your breadmaking. I started with APF, and now I have bread, corn, white whole wheat, whole wheat, rice, cake, corn meal, regular oats, and mashed potato flakes. A well-stocked pantry is essential to baking bread (and baking in general).

I'm kind of a bread book nerd. If I could afford to buy a ton of bread books, I would, but alas, I am thankful I have a great library instead. One book I am REALLY loving is The Bread Baker's Apprentice by Peter Reinhart. I have a bunch of Reinhart's books checked out from the library at the moment, and they're awesome. I can't wait til I have some time to bake. I made his challah for Easter, and everyone raved about it. You can find it on GoogleBooks; some pages aren't available in the preview, but there are whole recipes available (like the challah). One thing I like about Reinhart is he gives measurements in volume, weight, and baker's percentages.

Some websites I love:

Cookistry Donna Currie also writes for Serious Eats. She is doing a whole series right now on cooking surfaces for pizza. Check it out. She also has more info on yeast.

The Fresh Loaf | News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts Great resource for bakers of all skill levels.

King Arthur Flour home page Their flour and the resources on the website are awesome.

Charlatan · 05-03-2011, 07:51 PM

By the way, I made my first ever batch of bagels on the weekend. They were pretty good but I think the humidity here (80%) messed with the recipe. The next batch I will add less water to the mix.

I also tried to make a sourdough starter this weekend... it went mouldy. I am not quite sure what happened. I think it might have something to do with the heat here.

KellyC · 05-04-2011, 01:20 PM

Looks like I've hit a gold mine of info on bread baking. Thanks for all the help!! I'll whip up a batch some time this weekend and will report back!

P.S. I'm just kidding about the masterbaker thing. I like to try out a lot of things and this is flavor of the month.

Btw, where can I find a thermometer that goes up to several hundred degrees?

RogueGypsy · 05-04-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyC

Looks like I've hit a gold mine of info on bread baking. Thanks for all the help!! I'll whip up a batch some time this weekend and will report back!

P.S. I'm just kidding about the masterbaker thing. I like to try out a lot of things and this is flavor of the month.

Btw, where can I find a thermometer that goes up to several hundred degrees?

Oven thermometer, found in kitchen sections of most stores. Grocery store, kmart, wallyworld, bed bath & beyond..................

snowy · 05-04-2011, 05:59 PM

Look in the kitchen section of any mass market retailer, KellyC.

You want an instant read digital probe thermometer.

There are lots of different kinds:

All-in-one:

Amazon.com: Taylor 9842 Commercial Waterproof Digital Thermometer: Kitchen & Dining

Separate probe:

Amazon.com: CDN Digital Programmable Probe Thermometer: Kitchen & Dining

Personally, I'm saving for a Thermapen:

Amazon.com: Splash-Proof Super-Fast Thermapen (Purple) Instant Read Thermometer, Perfect for Barbecue, Home and Professional Cooking: Home & Garden

The current thermometer I have is most like the second one posted (it's a CDN with a separate probe and is programmable).

dlish · 05-04-2011, 08:06 PM

i dont really have anything to add to the conversation except to say that there's some skillz in here...

but is it just me that reads the title as "Help me become a masturbator"

KellyC · 05-05-2011, 01:04 PM

Ok, so I decided to go the frugal way and get a stone slab from Home Depot. I went in store and there's like a jillion different kinds, and they're broken down to stone from the quarry, ceramic, and porcelain. Stone is unglazed, but I don't think they're the right kind for oven baking. The guy at Home Depot told me the ceramic and porcelain don't react to heat but they're glazed, and I read online that glazed tiles have lead in them, and you don't want that in your body. The last option is slate, which looks really dirty and fragile compared to the other three, I don't think it'd be good for the oven either.

So question is, can any one help me hone down a specific type that I can use? I'd need to know the exact name, and if it helps, pictures. Thanks!

Web: Flooring - Tile & Stone at The Home Depot

snowy · 05-07-2011, 11:02 AM

Unglazed quarry tiles.

One of the contributors on Serious Eats has been doing a comparison of pizza-baking surfaces:

The Best Surface For Baking Pizza, Part 3: Quarry Tiles | Slice Pizza Blog

The stone I evetually want to buy for myself: The Best Surface for Baking Pizza, Part 5: Baking Stone | Slice Pizza Blog

05-03-2011, 12:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	Help me become a masterbaker. I love the smell of freshly baked bread. Since I have a lot of time to spare recently I've decided to take up baking and fill my house with this wonderful smell. I have a few questions I'd like to ask to get me started. 1) Pizza stone/baking stone - What's a good stone? I just went to Target to look for one and they only have one for $13.99, which comes with a dough roller and pizza cutter. I don't trust cheap products so I didn't buy it. I saw online there are several different types, and some goes well over $50. I want to get a good one to save myself the hassle of trial-and-error so is there any recommendation? 2) Yeast - turns out there's a bunch of kind and I don't know which one to use and for what purpose. Is there a difference between the ones that come in a small package vs the one that comes in a jar? 3) Flour - All-purpose flour vs bread flour? Is there a really good brand that I should buy? Can I use bread flour to make pizza dough? The bread I want to bake should look like a loaf, crispy on the outside, lightly sweet and moist and fluffy on the inside and can be eaten as a stand alone snack, or with meat and even jam. Does that make sense? I'll move on to other types of bread eventually but that's my #1 goal. Thanks! __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens. Last edited by KellyC; 05-03-2011 at 01:18 PM..

05-03-2011, 04:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Some advice on pizza stones: Which pizza stone should I buy? \| Serious Eats : Talk : Cooking and Baking Yeast? It depends on the recipe you are using. Some call for sourdough, some call for fresh, some call for instant. You will know what you like and prefer once you start using it. An article on Fresh Yeast: Pizza Protips: Working with Fresh Yeast \| Slice Pizza Blog As for Flour, again, it depends on the recipe. Some call for using Bread flour over All-purpose. Bread flour has more proteins than All-purpose. The best advice I can give, is just start baking bread. Try different recipes and learn from experience what the different ingredients do. Experiment. Yeast in general: Pizza Protips: Yeast \| Slice Pizza Blog __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-03-2011, 07:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Yay, bread! First, save yourself the anguish and buy yourself a thermometer. They're $15 and they'll tell you when 1) the temperature is right to proof yeast (if you're doing that), and 2) when your loaf is done. Most bread books of quality will tell you a temperature that the bread should hit. For beginners without a scale, the basic recipes presented in the Joy of Cooking are a good place to start. An enriched bread worth trying--it's easy for beginners and extremely tasty/versatile--is the milk bread from Joy of Cooking. It doesn't necessarily have the crispy crust you're looking for, but if you make it in loaf pans, it is a loaf shape, slices easily, and makes a great sandwich. Also, in the Baking Bread thread, I have a recipe posted that is an adaptation of the Joy of Cooking's Fast White Bread using white whole wheat flours. On yeast: Instant yeast is being more commonly called for in recipes. You can find it in packets or jars. Look for yeasts labeled "fast rise" or "quick rise." I prefer to use active dry yeast. I can buy it in bulk from the hippie food co-op for significantly less money (about 75% off) than the same quantity of yeast in a jar from the store. ADY can be used in any recipe calling for instant by increasing the amount of yeast by 25%. ADY must be proofed in warm liquid (105-115) prior to use. Packets or jars don't make a huge difference. If you really are looking to be a masterbaker, buy the jar. As you get into expanding your repetoire of breads, you will be using varying amounts of yeast. Not to mention, owning a quantity of yeast also means you can make yeasted waffles. Fresh yeast can typically be found in the section with the butter at the grocery store. It's a little more delicate than either instant or active yeast, and expires quickly. I would only buy fresh yeast if a specific recipe I called for wanted fresh yeast, but I've baked with some of Julia Child's old recipes calling for fresh yeast by substituting ADY, and haven't had any problems. The amount of fresh yeast called for is equal to the amount of ADY you substitute. Most bread recipes, except those that need high-gluten flours (i.e. bagels), can be made with all-purpose flour. Typically, a good recipe will specify which kind of flour. Bread flour is easy to get. You absolutely can use it for making pizza dough. As Eden stated, you will own more and more flours (and ingredients) as you increase your breadmaking. I started with APF, and now I have bread, corn, white whole wheat, whole wheat, rice, cake, corn meal, regular oats, and mashed potato flakes. A well-stocked pantry is essential to baking bread (and baking in general). I'm kind of a bread book nerd. If I could afford to buy a ton of bread books, I would, but alas, I am thankful I have a great library instead. One book I am REALLY loving is The Bread Baker's Apprentice by Peter Reinhart. I have a bunch of Reinhart's books checked out from the library at the moment, and they're awesome. I can't wait til I have some time to bake. I made his challah for Easter, and everyone raved about it. You can find it on GoogleBooks; some pages aren't available in the preview, but there are whole recipes available (like the challah). One thing I like about Reinhart is he gives measurements in volume, weight, and baker's percentages. Some websites I love: Cookistry Donna Currie also writes for Serious Eats. She is doing a whole series right now on cooking surfaces for pizza. Check it out. She also has more info on yeast. The Fresh Loaf \| News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts Great resource for bakers of all skill levels. King Arthur Flour home page Their flour and the resources on the website are awesome. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

05-03-2011, 07:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	By the way, I made my first ever batch of bagels on the weekend. They were pretty good but I think the humidity here (80%) messed with the recipe. The next batch I will add less water to the mix. I also tried to make a sourdough starter this weekend... it went mouldy. I am not quite sure what happened. I think it might have something to do with the heat here. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-04-2011, 01:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	Looks like I've hit a gold mine of info on bread baking. Thanks for all the help!! I'll whip up a batch some time this weekend and will report back! P.S. I'm just kidding about the masterbaker thing. I like to try out a lot of things and this is flavor of the month. Btw, where can I find a thermometer that goes up to several hundred degrees? __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens. Last edited by KellyC; 05-04-2011 at 01:24 PM..

05-04-2011, 05:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Look in the kitchen section of any mass market retailer, KellyC. You want an instant read digital probe thermometer. There are lots of different kinds: All-in-one: Amazon.com: Taylor 9842 Commercial Waterproof Digital Thermometer: Kitchen & Dining Amazon.com: Taylor 9842 Commercial Waterproof Digital Thermometer: Kitchen & Dining Separate probe: Amazon.com: CDN Digital Programmable Probe Thermometer: Kitchen & Dining Amazon.com: CDN Digital Programmable Probe Thermometer: Kitchen & Dining Personally, I'm saving for a Thermapen: Amazon.com: Splash-Proof Super-Fast Thermapen (Purple) Instant Read Thermometer, Perfect for Barbecue, Home and Professional Cooking: Home & Garden Amazon.com: Splash-Proof Super-Fast Thermapen (Purple) Instant Read Thermometer, Perfect for Barbecue, Home and Professional Cooking: Home & Garden The current thermometer I have is most like the second one posted (it's a CDN with a separate probe and is programmable). __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

05-04-2011, 08:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	i dont really have anything to add to the conversation except to say that there's some skillz in here... but is it just me that reads the title as "Help me become a masturbator" __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

05-05-2011, 01:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	Ok, so I decided to go the frugal way and get a stone slab from Home Depot. I went in store and there's like a jillion different kinds, and they're broken down to stone from the quarry, ceramic, and porcelain. Stone is unglazed, but I don't think they're the right kind for oven baking. The guy at Home Depot told me the ceramic and porcelain don't react to heat but they're glazed, and I read online that glazed tiles have lead in them, and you don't want that in your body. The last option is slate, which looks really dirty and fragile compared to the other three, I don't think it'd be good for the oven either. So question is, can any one help me hone down a specific type that I can use? I'd need to know the exact name, and if it helps, pictures. Thanks! Web: Flooring - Tile & Stone at The Home Depot __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

05-07-2011, 11:02 AM	#11 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Unglazed quarry tiles. One of the contributors on Serious Eats has been doing a comparison of pizza-baking surfaces: The Best Surface For Baking Pizza, Part 3: Quarry Tiles \| Slice Pizza Blog The stone I evetually want to buy for myself: The Best Surface for Baking Pizza, Part 5: Baking Stone \| Slice Pizza Blog __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau