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Old 10-02-2003, 09:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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James Bond: License to Kill

The activist in me feels that I must work to correct a grave injustice that has long gone ignored or gets buried under more media-savvy causes. This injustice is the general consensus among the cinema-going public that Timothy Dalton is in fact the worst James Bond this world has ever seen. I used to accept this premise as most people do when they pass over that dark spot of the late-80's Bond films. Upon reviewing a few of the titles recently on my sick days, I have come to the conclusion that he is in fact one of the best. It really depends on what you want out of a ridiculously impossible character like James Bond.

Sean Connery: Undeniably the best, no sane person would argue against this. Of course he is the best. He is the first. He is without exception the perfect Bond. He had the perfect amount of savior-faire blended with a mean-streak and a temper that nobody wanted to test.

George Lazenby: Probably the worst, just because nobody remembers him. He did one film. I've never seen it, but I venture to believe there is a reason they didn't ask him back.

Roger Moore: Before Roger Moore there really wan't much to parody in the Austin Powers films. Roger Moore gave Mike Myers a truckload of crap to poke fun at. Roger Moore made James Bond a parody of himself. His films have some redeeming value, but as an actor he brought James Bond into an element of silliness that nobody could reverse. On top of it he pumped out Bond films like they were going out of style, and by the time Timothy Dalton took the helm, they had gone out of style.

Timothy Dalton: People love to shit on this guy. He's the wuss Bond. He's the ugly Bond. He's the late-80's Bond. Whats taken for granted about Timothy Dalton, and this is perhaps why people disliked him, he's the most realistic Bond. He's the most human Bond. Timothy Dalton's Bond had a temper to him that we hadn't seen since Connery. Dalton was the darkest portrayal of Bond. He added a dimension of realism, and I use the term realism very lightly, this is after all James Bond. The film a License to Kill failed miserably to find an american audience although it did quite well internationally. License to Kill is the Empire Strikes Back of Bond films. Its very dark, its very real, and its got some depth to it. The villain, played by Robert Davi, was a druglord. This is a far cry from some whacko with a volcano hideout bent on world domination. There are plenty of wild stunts in License to Kill, but they had an element of believability to them that you no longer see since the advent of computer-generated special effects. They were on a tighter budget so everything was filmed on location. You didn't have the elaborate, but unrealistic sets that Ken Adam had designed for the previous films, and you didn't have the side-splitting CG effects of today's Pierce Brosnan pictures. License to Kill found an interesting spot in between these pictures.

Pierce Brosnan: Brosnan may be the best since Connery. He found the happy medium between the English campiness of Roger Moore and the emotional seriousness of the Dalton. This combination makes him a little more like Connery.

If you haven't seen License to Kill in a long time, I say watch it again for the first time. You'll be surprised. Rounding out the cast is a very young Benecio Del Toro as villain Robert Davi's second in command. Del Toro already shows his ingenious ability to underact a part. His mannerisms are completely signature even this early in his career. Its a great film. Bond actually becomes a rogue agent on a personal vendetta. Very bold. Its a departure from Roger Moore's invulnerability and it was a necessary rung in the ladder of Bond films.

So, getting down to brass tacks I put them in the following order:

1. Sean Connery
2. Pierce Brosnan
3. Timothy Dalton
4. Roger Moore
5. George who? Oh yeah, Lazenby.

Its about time Dalton got some overdue credit as the #3 not the #5.
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Old 10-02-2003, 11:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Good points, it's funny that as I was reading that I was thinking of a Star Wars analogy before I even got to the Empire Strikes Back Reference.

To extend the idea:

Sean Connery - Star Wars (the original; the basis for all that follows and hard to bring down from the pedestal)
Timothy Dalton - Empire Strikes Back (gritty and depressing, but kinda worth the effort)
Pierce Brosnan - Return of the Jedi (bit of a mix, the campy and the cool. Fairly slick overall)
Roger Moore - Attack of the Clones (imagine if AOTC had been made in the seventies; he's like the campy and blatant teenage Anakin, but it's still good fun)
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Old 10-02-2003, 11:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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i agree with the order, sean was the best, wrong accent and all
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Old 10-02-2003, 11:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Check out ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE. I think you'll change your mind about George Lazenby.

Although I pretty much agree with your list besides that.
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Old 10-02-2003, 12:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: James Bond: License to Kill

Quote:
Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus

George Lazenby: Probably the worst, just because nobody remembers him. He did one film. I've never seen it, but I venture to believe there is a reason they didn't ask him back.

I thought Roger Moore was the worst. And they did ask Lazenby back, they wanted him to do a 3 film deal, but he couldn't cos he was tied up filming in asia

I agree with your point about Dalton. I always liked The Living Daylights
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Old 10-02-2003, 01:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good order of Bonds.

Pierce Brosnan is moving up the list after the last movie. I really enjoyed it.
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Old 10-02-2003, 02:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I take it that David Niven in "Casino Royale" is not in the running...

In any event, I disagree with your premise that Moore played a worse Bond than Dalton but instead say that he played a different Bond.

"The Spy Who Loved Me" will always be one of my favorite Bond's where the characters could actually have fun with each other (Who can forget the almost comic aspect of the fights between Bond and the evil gear toothed Jaws?)

Also, Mike Myers pulled his character of Dr. Evil along with his campy sidekicks directly from Fleming's "Spectre" and the goofy car chases from early Bond films like "Dr. No", so I don't think you can lay the blame on Moore for that, but instead you must blame Ian Flemming if anyone.

That being said, of all the Bond actors I've seen, Dalton is my least favorite. Of course, I haven't seen George what'shisname, so that could change
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Old 10-02-2003, 05:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think we'd all agree, though, that Christopher Walken and Grace Jones was the fucking freakiest couple to ever grace the silver screen. Roger Moore battling a Walken-Jones duo is just plain bad no matter what the script looks like. Hmmmmm, Walken-Jones as the ugliest couple in movies? I think I found a new thread.
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Old 10-03-2003, 06:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: West Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
I take it that David Niven in "Casino Royale" is not in the running...

In any event, I disagree with your premise that Moore played a worse Bond than Dalton but instead say that he played a different Bond.

"The Spy Who Loved Me" will always be one of my favorite Bond's where the characters could actually have fun with each other (Who can forget the almost comic aspect of the fights between Bond and the evil gear toothed Jaws?)

Also, Mike Myers pulled his character of Dr. Evil along with his campy sidekicks directly from Fleming's "Spectre" and the goofy car chases from early Bond films like "Dr. No", so I don't think you can lay the blame on Moore for that, but instead you must blame Ian Flemming if anyone.

That being said, of all the Bond actors I've seen, Dalton is my least favorite. Of course, I haven't seen George what'shisname, so that could change
I watched the Spy Who Loved Me recently too. Its a great movie. And don't get me wrong I don't really dislike Roger Moore all that much. Its a totally different idea of Bond. You are right about Dr. Evil, but I was thinking more along the lines of Austin Powers himself. Roger Moore seems to constantly have lines that are just so far over the top, he seems to shag more gals, and when he opens that parachute after skiing off the mountain in Spy Who Loved Me, the Union Jack parachute, defenitely Power's material. I'd actually like to see On Her Majesty's Secret Service just so I can really be sure about this Lazenby fellow.
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Old 10-03-2003, 06:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The best part about Her Majesty's Secret Service is the Mrs. Bond that becomes an opener for a few other Bond movies...
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Old 10-03-2003, 03:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Great thought and effort in your list CL. As a lifelong Bond fan, I couldn't agree more with your assesments. Except(yes, there has to be an except) Roger Moore, in my view, needs to be ranked even BELOW, that George guy.

It was always so puzzling to me, that with Connery setting the standard and then leaving, how they could ever pick someone so effeminate as Moore. Obviously, he had his share of babes, so I wouldn't go so far as to call him gay, but damn, even when he was shooting bad guys you could almost see his prim little pinky sticking up in the air.

If a 007 with Moore comes on the tube now I'll watch it only because I'm a Bondaholic, but Mrs. paddyjoe yells at me and boycotts him(she LOVES pretty-boy Pierce).

Personally, I thought Dalton was the best true actor out of the bunch, just no charisma. Bond charisma anyway.

Cool thread CL. I'll have to go get into my DVD collection now.
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Old 10-03-2003, 05:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think Roger Moore was a but old for the part of James Bond, as far as Lazenby and Dalton go, they should have stayed away, if only Connery did those movies too. Brosnan is a good Bond, I think.
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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1. Sean Connery - The First and the basis of all comparison.
2. Pierce Brosnan - Brought Bond back from the dead and did a hell of a job doing it.
3. Timothy Dalton - Underated. Dalton isnt the best Bond but he brought the character back to its darker, more serious roots.
4. George Lazenby - On Her Majesties Secret Service isnt that bad. It's not great but it's not bad.
5. Roger Moore - I hate the Moore Bond. One word, Moonraker. Bond meets Star Wars? WTF?

*Side note*
Hey cool, this is my #100 post on TF
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Old 10-04-2003, 06:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Lazenby got screwed, because in her majesty's sercret service bond got married and then his wife got killed. What a horrid ending? It definitley soured the whole movie and my view of lazenby (even though not his fault). I don't really like moore either.
In some of Moore's later movies he was and looked way too old, it was ridiculous.
Pirce and Sean are my favourites, although more recent bond movies haven't been that great. Dalton was probably too serious for the role, but he still did a pretty good job. Moore just looked like a crusty old dude in some of his roles and lazenby didn't really get a good job of proving him self. ALthough he was an Aussie so i have respect for that
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Old 10-04-2003, 09:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Be careful not to pin the crappy-ness of a Bond film on the actor. Except for Brosnan, the actors have had very little influence on the overall story.

That being said, Brosnan is the worst thing to come to Bond films since ... ever. His best Bond films weren't even Bond films at all, "The Tailor of Panama" and "The Thomas Crown Affair". He did more spying in either of those films than all his Bond roles put together. Watching Brosnan as Bond reminds me of the GI Joe cartoons that came out in the 80's. He grabs a pistol, charges a line of commies with machine guns, and doesn't get a scratch on him. Gimme a break. At least Roger Moore ACTED like he was in danger from time to time. I know a lot of people like the new Action Bond, but it's sad to see a great (probably the greatest) series of spy films turn into typical Hollywood special effect driven movies. I thought we left that behind with Roger Moore.

My rankings:
0. Sean Connery - He is James Bond.
1. Timothy Dalton - Fundamental Bond. Other Bond wanna-be's should learn from him.
2. Roger Moore - Campy Bond. At least I know I'll get a laugh out of his acting, and he does have the coolest gadgets.
#?. Pierce Brosnan - Yo JOE! 'Knowing is half the battle', and I know I have to repeat, "It's an action film, not a Bond film." over and over before entering the theater.
#?. George Lazenby - Been so long, I don't know if he ranks above Brosnan or not.
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Old 10-05-2003, 11:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Pierce Brosnan is Irish by the way.

Not English.

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Old 10-05-2003, 11:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For godsakes... why does every fucking movie have to be compared to Star Wars?!

Other than that that was a great and insightful post.

Pierce is my personal fave though I don't like any of his films besides Golden Eye, which in turn is my favourite Bond film.
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Old 10-06-2003, 07:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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1. Sean Connery - Smooth, James Bond all the way.
2. Roger Moore - I grew up on him, I love his stuff, puts a smile on my face.
3. Pierce Brosnan - Does a very good job, a little stiff at times
4. Timothy Dalton - Didn't have emotion, boring
5. George Lazenby - Dry, Boring
6. David Niven - not on the radar, forgot he did one until I saw it the other day.
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for the interesting feedback everybody. I never looked at David Niven because that was made-for-tv as I understood, maybe I'm wrong. If I've never seen Lazenby, I sure as shit have never seen David Niven. I haven't really been a lifelong Bond fan. Its more of a recent endeavor. Its interesting to see the variety of viewpoints on the Bond list. Maybe I should have made a poll. I'm too lazy for that. Besides if it was a who's the best bond? question, I haven't heard anybody say its not Connery. Sorry Deflok for the Star Wars reference. Me and a buddy of mine whenever comparing a series of films always inevitably end up picking the "Empires Strikes Back" of the series just for fun.
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