Baraka_Guru

Hey, TFP!

I've built a fabulous reading list of fantasy literature that I wish to share with you. I've spent a number of years denying myself the pleasure of reading extensively in this genre, but no more!

I've read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, by the granddaddy of the genre, J. R. R. Tolkien. I won't be addressing these titles here, as it will be assumed that you too have read these essential works. (If not, get thee to Middle-earth! )

Other works I've read included several of the original Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance series (long ago now), but in hindsight I tend to view these series as either mediocre or particularly bad.

I've more recently read George R. R. Martin's Game of Thrones, book one of his celebrated Song of Ice and Fire series. (Discussion thread coming shortly.) I will be focusing on this series to lead us into the best of the best in fantasy, but not before reading some older pre- and post-Tolkien classics, namely, Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy, Eddings' Belgariad, and Brooks' original Sword of Shannara trilogy. I will consider these as a part of a "classic fantasy" category, which will serve as a great introduction. Yes, I know other works can be classified as such, but I don't want to put too much into this category for this purpose. These other works can be visited at a later time.

So, I will map out the readings over time, and I hope you will join me for the journey. This thread will be somewhat similar to the TFP Speculative Fiction Book Club, but it will be less formal, perhaps (perhaps not). I will create threads for books after I've read them to have open discussions.

So please join me and have fun! Recommendations are welcome, but I've been rooting around quite a bit now and I have lots to go on already. I will certainly appreciate anything I may have missed.

[Note: For the sake of breadth within the genre and within the context of this thread, I have chosen to cover no more than three books within a particular series.]

Reading List (not definitive)

[Classic Fantasy]

Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin

1. A Wizard of Earthsea (1968)
2. The Tombs of Atuan (1971)
3. The Farthest Shore (1972)

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson

1. Lord Foul's Bane (1977)
2. The Illearth War (1978)
3. The Power that Preserves (1979)

The Original Shannara Trilogy by Terry Brooks

1. The Sword of Shannara (1977)
2. The Elfstones of Shannara (1982)
3. The Wishsong of Shannara (1985)

The Belgariad by David Eddings

1. Pawn of Prophecy (1982) [DISCUSSION commenced]
2. Queen of Sorcery (1982) [READING commencing]
3. Magician's Gambit (1983)

[The Essentials]

A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. R. Martin

1. A Game of Thrones (1996) [DISCUSSION commenced]
2. A Clash of Kings (1998) [DISCUSSION commenced]
3. A Storm of Swords (2000)[DISCUSSION commenced]

The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson

1. Gardens of the Moon (1999)
2. Deadhouse Gates (2000)
3. Memories of Ice (2001)

The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan

1. The Eye of the World (1990)
2. The Great Hunt (1991)
3. The Dragon Reborn (1991)

The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind

1. Wizard's First Rule (1994)
2. Stone of Tears (1995)
3. Blood of the Fold (1996)

The Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb

1. Assassin's Apprentice (1995)
2. Royal Assassin (1996)
3. Assassin's Quest (1997)

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Martian

When discussing fantasy here, are you looking strictly at Tolkein-esque high fantasy novels, or are you open to some more liberal entries within the genre? It Matters.

I just finished A Storm of Swords and am waiting on A Feast For Crows from the local library. All I have to say is hurry up and get reading, sir! It is a most excellent series.

I don't read all that much fantasy, so my contributions here will be limited.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

fresnelly

I look forward to the Song of Ice and Fire thread. I've just started A Feast For Crows.

The eyebrow-raiser on your list for me is The Belgariad. I read that as a teen and really enjoyed it but I wonder if you'll find it too "young adult" to enjoy. Isn't the Shannara Trilogy also aimed at younger readers?

My personal favourite that I can't recommend enough is Joseph Abercrombie's First Law trilogy and its companion book Best Served Cold. These are taut, exciting stories with unconventional characters and magics and are epic without being bogged down by the tropes of the genre.

Anyway, good luck to to you.

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Baraka_Guru

As you can see from the list so far, it will likely be made up mostly of epic or high fantasy, but some of the titles might also have elements of low-magic, history/alternate history, myth, dark fantasy, etc. However, most of what I'll cover will be relatively mainstream and considered, more or less, fantasy.

I know, I know. But I really want to read some of the older stuff first, as I have indicated.

But any and all of your contributions will be greatly appreciated, sir!

I hear you, but the same can be said for a lot of fantasy, and I'm not about to rule things out because they're not written for an adult market. I'm guessing that there are many stories for children that worth reading. I'm still on the fence on whether I want to read the Chronicles of Narnia. The other thing is that these books will be quick reads. I'm not sure one can adequately enjoy the genre without reading a few "children's stories."

Actually, that trilogy is on my list not much further down the line. I will get to it eventually!

---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

Okay, so I set up the first discussion thread here: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...-spoilers.html

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Leto

A question that may or may not influence the selections, do you consider The Eternal Champion set as Fantasy? I think this would include anything by Moorcock, dealing with Elric, Prince Corum, Jherek Carnelian or Jerry Cornelius.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Baraka_Guru

Yes, there are a few series/sequences that I've looked at that are kind of a subgenre of fantasy. I think it's often referred to as "sword and planet science fantasy" or something. It's a vein of "speculative fiction" that splintered off of the heyday of science fiction/speculative fiction, if I'm not mistaken. I'd be willing to explore that aspect of fantasy, though I'm not sure how willing I'd be to go to far into it. If you recommend The Eternal Champion as a good specimen of this sort of thing, I'm certainly willing to try it. I could even add this as a subgenre and a nice diversion from the main list, just as long as it doesn't delve too closely to science fiction.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

LordEden

I want to recommend a few books as I think we talked about this thread before in chat.

A lot of the books that I would recommend are already there, so I got some to ask about that are not "Epic" fantasy.

Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini? To young adult? I liked them a lot and can't wait for the 4th book. There are a few series I like that fall under the "young adult" section of books.

I'm guessing Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan is out (for length aspects) but his Conan books are great fantasy stories even if they fall into the "fan fic" area of fantasy.

Bedlam's Bard Series by Mercedes Lackey and Ellen Guon. Cheesy? Yes. It's also Urban fantasy (Lower realm elves hang out at the mall using low magic to make copies of quarters to play endless video games) so I don't know if that's out or not.

I wanted to suggest this book in the Sci-Fi thread, but I think it's more fantasy than sci-fi. Perdido Street Station by China Miéville is an awesome read and one of the few books that really challenged my vocabulary (he loves latin words). Might be to sci-fi for this thread, but I got to mention it somewhere.

Killing all D&D books really bumps out of a lot of my "classic fantasy" books. I'm going to have to brain storm to add some to this list.

I still haven't read LOTR...

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Pearl Trade

Does "Going After Cacciato" by Tim O'Brien count as fantasy? The chase after Cacciato is one man's "fantasy" and some of the elements he thinks of could be in the fantasy genre. Anyone read it?

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Baraka_Guru

As mentioned above, I'm not against young adult. If anything, they're quick reads. We can talk about the worlds, concepts, etc., rather than the writing.

The Wheel of Time is up there. There is no time frame for this journey! But I won't get around to it for a while, I don't think. Are these Conan stories "fan-ficy"? Are they any good?

Um, Eden, dude, what are you trying to do to my thread? I'd be into urban fantasy. I'm not into elven teen angst. Give me some title recommendations. I'm not so sure about that Bedlam's Bard series.

This is listed in the Sci-Fi thread. We can read it next on that list if you want.

Sorry, dude. For a genre that's grossly hit and miss with the cheese, we have to have some standards. Some of these books were okay. I can't remember if any of them were great. If you have a case, I'm listening.

Holy fuck, Eden. Holy fucking shit.


Why do you hate fantasy?




---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

There's this type of fantasy that is more or less a play on modern-day reality and perception. I think this book falls into that category. William Goldling I think does similar things with Pincher Martin. It delves into psychological conflict, etc. You will see similiar elements in Gormenghast as well, but in a more archaic setting.

I think the modern setting would put it more into the speculative fiction thread though. What do you think?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Leto

You know, until you mentioned it in the preceding post, I had never considered the LOTR to be fantasy. I never really categorized it, although when I read it the first time around (it was wildly popular in my first year of university, and even spawned a movie back in '78 or 79) I recommended to my father to read it. His reply (in classic Teutonic fashion) was that he already read the Ring of the Nibelung, or the Nibelungenlied, so why would he read something derivative. I of course never brought it up with him again.

So, a few years later when I read through The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, I kind of knew where he was coming from. I think that as the tales of the Unbeliever are to LOTR, so is LOTR to the Nibelungenlied. To me, Thomas Covenant is prime Fantasy genre while LOTR was something that stood out on its own. Maybe it created the genre.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

LordEden

I'll make a list and pass it along, some of the series are really good for being in that section.

I liked them, I'd recommend reading them, just not for this thread. Falls into the D&D section.

It's not about teen angst, that was just a little snippet to show what I ment by urban fantasy (it's not even shown in the book). I'd recommend them to you and not this list.

The Chronicles Trilogy and Legends Trilogy were my first fantasy books when I was a kid, they hold a special place in my heart. I guess talking about Tasslehoff Burrfoot or Drizzt Do'urden is out. You really can only say Drizzt killed EVERYONE so many times before it gets old.

Promise I don't, I just get into the "epic" side of fantasy. I like it when I get into it, but I don't actively seek it out. The series I usually classify as epic get WAY to bloated by the end (even GRRM has a slight case of the bloat IMHO) and usually seek out single books or less "epic" series. Good enough to tell a tale but not bloat city when it comes to sub-plots, characters, and locations.

I like cheese. I really do. It's a bad habit at times but my reading list sometimes overflows with it.

I'm just trying to get a feel for what you want on your list. I can now officially cross off 95% of my fantasy book collection.

Yes, I will read LOTR... someday... soon...

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Baraka_Guru

Well, when Tolkien set out to write it, there was no "Fantasy" genre. There were a bunch of books that were more or less considered speculative fiction or science fiction. He set out to create an English myth. What ended up happening is that he created a fictional world whose integrity and believability was unprecedented. This is why it is considered the foundation of the fantasy genre. It set the standard. Elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, dragons, etc., most fantasy literature base these concepts on Tolkien's treatment of them.

To overlook the sources for the LOTR would be a shame. Tolkien was a philologist and so was steeped in history and ancient cultures and literature. If you are at all familiar with medieval and pre-medieval literature, you should see it in the LOTR. For example: the Horn of Gondor and The Song of Roland.

EDIT: Oh, and about Thomas Covenant: I have heard great things about Lord Foul's Bane, and so I've added it to the list.

Which is odd because the LOTR hits the epic sweet spot: a slow build to a world-changing crescendo. How can you get any better than going from a half-sized country bumpkin to a mountain of fire surrounded by thousands of orcs and a ring that can destroy the world? And it does so quite wonderfully. It doesn't use the cheesy tropes we see elsewhere, like the country bumpkin is actually the heir to the throne and a part of an ancient bloodline of warriors, etc.

Yes, you must read it, Eden. You must read it nao!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Martian

Slight? In A Storm of Swords, the appendix listing the various characters is 46 pages long. And that's the third book. Apparently he's planning seven, and that's not even counting short stories and the like that share the setting.

I've read the Silmarillion. I know what extraneous detail looks like. If you can get through the Song of Ice and Fire series, you can get through Lord of the Rings.

As for the Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms series, I remember thoroughly enjoying them when I was 13 or so, but I'm pretty sure that's because they're the sorts of books that 13 year old boys enjoy. I have no particular desire to revisit them, and would recommend we steer clear of those.

No, that ends up being the Stranger With A Mysterious Past.

Lord of the Rings is full of cheesy tropes. It just gets a pass because it created half of them.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

Well, yeah, they weren't cheesy in the '50s.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ring

Is Ursula Le Guin's - Earthsea Trilogy, on your list?

Baraka_Guru

Yes, it certainly is on there somewhere. I should probably try to keep it high up on the list, as I really want to read it.

And an UPDATE: I just got Pawn of Prophecy from the library, so I will be starting it....for anyone who will be reading The Belgariad along with me. It looks like a quick read.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ring

I believe you will enjoy that trio very much.

Zilpha Keatley Snyder's - Below The Root, is another book that is found in the young-adult
section, that is very good. I re-read it recently. It may be out of print. Not sure.

Baraka_Guru

Have a look at the updated OP.

I have started a discussion thread for Pawn of Prophecy, Book One of The Belgariad, plus I have posted my initial comments in the thread for A Game of Thrones.

Also, my next departure will be to read A Clash of Kings, Book Two of A Song of Ice and Fire!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

kramus

C. J. Cherryh

the Morgaine books

1. Gate of Ivrel (1976)
2. Well of Shiuan (1978)
3. Fires of Azeroth (1979)
4. Exile's Gate (1988)

the Tristan books

1. Fortress in the Eye of Time (1995)
2. Fortress of Eagles (1998)
3. Fortress of Owls (1998)
4. Fortress of Dragons (2000)
5. Fortress of Ice (2006)

Take a gander at all of her other work, but these fantasy works are contenders for your list.

Guy Gavriel Kay - anything by this fellow - but for fantasy I hope you consider these books.

The Fionavar Tapestry trilogy

The Summer Tree (1984)
The Wandering Fire (1985)
The Darkest Road (1985)

Tigana (1990)

A Song for Arbonne (1992)

__________________
And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ...
I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

Baraka_Guru

Thanks for the recommendations, Kramus. You will see that the Fionavar Tapestry trilogy is already on the list. And I'm finding that Tigana is a standalone title that I can't seem to avoid.

I haven't really looked at Cherryh before. That Morgaine series looks interesting. It appears to be quite squarely in that "science fantasy" genre that has eluded me so far. Maybe I'll make a subcategory for that here. I wasn't sure whether to do that here or in the speculative fiction thread.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Anxst

I might suggest the Curse of the Mistwraith series by Janny Wurts. Good epic fantasy stuff, and she really knows how to make her plots twist back on themselves in a way that is fun to read. Give them a try. The first is simply Curse of the Mistwraith.

__________________
Don't mind me. I'm just releasing the insanity pressure from my headvalves.

Frosstbyte

I'd really be a shame to only address the Farseer Trilogy and skip over the Liveship and Fool trilogies. While the Farseer may be the tighest and best of the three, I think it's worth taking the long road here, assuming we're feeling like gluttons for punishment. If any modern author has truly latched on to Tolkein's concept of eucatastrophe, it's definitely Hobb.

I'll take this project as an opportunity to finally make it through Gormenghast, too. My previous attempts have been on the fruitless side. FOCUS!

levite

First of all, a big hells yeah for Tolkien. I wrote my college thesis on Tolkien, Christianity, and The Silmarillion, and I have loved his work my whole life. I would actually love to add The Silmarillion to the list, as I think it is a much deeper, more complex work than LOTR (though I love LOTR).

I am on the second book right now of the Wheel of Time series, and am enjoying them very much, although I think his dialogue leaves a bit to be desired.

I would add also the Riddle-Master trilogy by Patricia McKillip, and Gillian Bradshaw's Arthurian trilogy.

But, to be frank, IMO, Paolini's Inheritance books are really not so deserving of notice. I mean, it is kind of impressive that he managed to write a novel and get it published when he was only 16 or so, but the work itself is ungodly derivative. And not in the good sense of "he's following in so-and-so's footsteps," but in the sense of "I can take any couple of chapters and dissect precisely what he stole from Tolkien, from Jordan, from McCaffrey, from Star Wars, and so forth." His plot exposition is leaden, his dialogue, wincingly trite, and his character development nearly nonexistent, with occasional bursts of improbable alteration.

BTW,if we're going to include "young adult" fiction, I think much better candidates are Susan Cooper's The Dark Is Rising quintology, and Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles quintology. Both are superbly written, and draw extensively on the classical legendry of the British Isles. Also, Madeleine L'Engle's Wrinkle In Time quintology is a classic, and not to be missed. And the His Dark Materials series by Pullman is also worthy of discussion.

And, I would add the Harry Potter books. They may have suffered from gross overexposure, but each time I reread them I notice that they really are fresh and creative and witty and entertaining. They are plain-out-and-out good books.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

spindles

seconded on this. I've read more than my fair share of fantasy, and struggled to finish the first book. How something so poorly written was published is only explained by the fact it was published by his parent's publishing company!

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Baraka_Guru

The Clash of Kings discussion thread has commenced!

I'm reading some things in between (some short stories and such), but I hope to commence reading A Storm of Swords shortly.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

snowy

Slowly working my way through A Game of Thrones right now. It's good stuff. I admit that I was surprised by how much I like it thus far. I only wish I had more time to devote to solely reading.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

LordEden

I got two series I want to put up to the council for review.

First, The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny. He's a hugo award winning author and I loved this series of books. It's epic (while might not be considered a classic) and has some great writing. It's 10 books long (short books tho, I have the full series in one book I bought for $25 at a store) and I think could be considered for this list.

Second is just a stab in the dark, but I thought I'd ask. The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Some love it, some hate it. I loved the first half of the series and had to make my way through the second half (just like WoT by Robert Jordan).

I'm not sure if either fits your criteria, but I thought I'd offer them to the judgment of the council.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Baraka_Guru

Zelazny comes up a lot in my searches for sci-fi and fantasy, so I'd be willing to consider it for sure.

Goodkind is on my bigger list, but I wasn't sure how to fit it in in terms of priority. Let's put it this way: Which would you prefer? The Sword of Truth or the Wheel of Time? The vibe I get is that they are about the came "caliber." Also, they're both rather long.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

LordEden

Personally, I'd like to do the first half of both series, that's the real "meat and potatoes" of the series (and the best of the books that each respective author wrote IMHO).

Without that choice, I'd choose Sword of Truth, I think they have more depth to them and have better re-readability.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Baraka_Guru

You know, the more I think of it, SoT seems more appealing than WoT. If you think that SoT has better re-readability, then that's a good sign. I was leaning more towards WoT originally because it seemed to be "the best thing since LotR."

However, Wizard's First Rule has always beckoned to me, whereas The Eye of the World, or WoT in general? Nothing, really. Notta.

Maybe I'll just switch out WoT with SoT in the OP list. There's something about Jordan that makes me reluctant to get into him anyway. I don't know what it is.

Regardless, I think I'd like to tackle The Malazan Book of the Fallen first. I've heard great things about it, originality being among them (and that being a big bonus).

On a side note: I just finished the Prologue to A Storm of Swords!

On another side note: I suppose 12-plus-book cycles is rather long at any rate. I suppose for the purpose of this thread that maybe we should only cover the first 3 or 4 books of long cycles. (Or 6 if you really suggest it.) If we only do 3 books each, then we could cover both series at least as far as a "this is how it's set up" and "this is what the series is like" kind of discussion. The rest of the series anyone can just read on their own.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

levite

You know, I am going to have to pick The Wheel of Time over The Sword of Truth. I am not dissing Goodkind's ability to successfully plot and tie up stories over a totally epic canvas, nor his inventiveness for interesting devices, or even his ability to create (IMO) the absolute most horrific villains ever.

But I think that in terms of characters, Jordan is a better writer. A lot happens to Goodkind's characters, and the best of them can spend pages upon pages of internal processing before even a two-sentence speech, but I always feel like his dialogue and interactions are a little wooden. Jordan's characters just flow a little more, I think.

I also am an enormous fan of Jordan's attention to the differences and divergences of cultures in his world. I really feel like different places are different in his world: people dress differently, have different values, see things differently, whereas in Goodkind's lands, some people are more evil, and some more good, but I always feel like everybody's kind of cut from the same cultural cloth, no matter where they're from.

BTW, I read Zelazny's whole Chronicles of Amber during the year I lived in Israel-- I was desperate for English-language fantasy/sci-fi fiction, and I found a copy of the complete Amber in a little bookstore with a single shelf of English books, and snapped it up. It was, given the context, diverting, but I confess I found it deeply uncompelling. I never got attached to the characters, I thought the plot was a confused jumble, and though some of his ideas were spectacularly original, he just never seemed to make them pan out in ways I found engaging. If I had picked it up in America, I probably would never have finished it.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Xazy

I agree with Levite, Riddlemaster trilogy is a must.

How about some dark fantasy, like C.S Friedman, or Anna Bishop. A new series that only one book is out (but was an incredible first book) was Name of the Wind, by patrick Rothfuss.

Baraka_Guru

You state a strong case. If you look at the OP again, you will notice I've listed the first three books of each series. Perhaps that's the extent to which we will cover them here. I think both are worth at least a look. (As far as three books are concerned.)

I will need to think about this. I normally associate Zelazny with science fiction anyway.

I've considered non-epic fantasy as a diversion from the main epic that I've listed thus far. The books of China Mieville come to mind. Dark fantasy would work too. Basically, books that more fantasy, as opposed to science fiction, but are not based in medieval/renaissance styled worlds, but modern worlds instead (or older worlds with modern elements)----or, as well, books that aren't about swords and sorcery as we've come to know it thanks to Tolkien et al.

I'll figure out a secondary vein for this thread.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

rahl

the debate concerning jordan or goodkind is a long one and really just comes down to personal preference.

I myself LOVE the sword of truth series. It was my first experience in the fantasy genre(except for LoTR as a teen) so I may be a little biased.

Wheel of Time is a good series(first few books anyway) but Jordan got so bogged down in side plots that I found myself skimming alot in his later works.

just my $0.02

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

Xazy

Anna McCaffey - Pern series I guess is epic fantasy, I know there is like 20 books, but the dragonriders series is a good start.

I also missed His dark marterials, by Pullman which levite mentioned earlier.

Name of the wind Patrick Rothfuss, I will say again totally amazing first book!

Scott Lynch - Lies of Locke Lamora

Brandon Sanderson - Mistborn series

And I can not believe Tad Williams - Memory Sorrow Thorn is not on here.

Now I said C.S Friedman Black Sun rising trilogy is dark fantasy, I can argue as well that it is definitely epic fantasy as well.

Joe Abercrombie - The Blade itself


Jordan was great, his first few books, he loses it with the men vs female being idiot concept, and his tapestry got so big he could not keep a hold on the story that it stunk.

Goodkind at the beginning seemed like a copycat, his first few books was amazing, and he lost it as well, story got to big. His stories also began to end the same way last second as a war wizard he automatically knew to do a,b,c and bam problem solved, but by solving it he broke rule #x which will lead to the next book.

Baraka_Guru

I just tightened up the list a bit.

Lots of good suggestions here, but I say we focus on what I have in the OP for the meantime.

I think if we cut long cycles to 3 books, then we could have an easier time adding to the list.

As noted, this is not a definitive list. If anything, this is a survey—or maybe just a sample—of epic/high fantasy. It's a big genre with a lot of books, and so I can't hope to put everything up here to cover.

Consider that I haven't added such offshoots as sword & sorcery, low fantasy, urban fantasy, dark fantasy, or humor books such as Pratchett. I think keeping the focus on epic/high fantasy will allow us to explore what makes up the lion's share of the genre. If, after we've gone through what's currently in the OP, we have the desire to move into these subgenres, perhaps it will be then that we do. Those books by China Miéville keep staring at me.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Xazy

An amazing new book first in an epic fantasy series by Brandon Sanderson, The way of kings.

LordEden

I'm down for some Brandon Sanderson being on this list. I liked him from the first book I read, which was the first WoT book I actually liked in a LONG time. I'm currently working on his Mistborn series and I love his style of writing. He actually came up with a unique magic system, which is almost unheard of these days.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Baraka_Guru

Sanderson,yes. I love his writing podcast.

I should drop in a quick note that my reading waned recently because of my having to edit four books in half as many months. It's over now, so my reading stamina isn't so taxed these days. I've continued on my way with A Storm of Swords.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Xazy

Another great series I am enjoying is the tide lord series by Jennifer Fallon, first book is the immortal prince. Not truly epic but almost epic, and an amazing series.