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Old 09-26-2004, 02:29 PM   #361 (permalink)
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Time.com press release:

Sunday, Sep. 26, 2004
10 QUESTIONS FOR SUMNER REDSTONE:
VIACOM CEO SUMNER REDSTONE’S REACTION TO CBS BACKING DOWN FROM BUSH SERVICE STORY ‘WAS ONE OF SEVERE DISTRESS,’ HE TELLS TIME


NEW YORK: “My reaction from the beginning was one of severe distress,” Sumner Redstone, chairman and CEO of Viacom, says when asked about his reaction to when CBS News backed down after defending its story on Bush’s service record. Redstone spoke with TIME’s Neil Gough in Guangzhou, China, where Redstone announced new business ventures in China country for MTV and Nickelodeon.

Asked if Dan Rather would be able to remain as long as he wants as anchor Redstone said: ”I already said that I would wait for the report to try to determine whether there should be any consequences to anybody at CBS News. I have found him, by the way, to be a very good reporter over the years. And, frankly, a very good friend. And I grieved all the more because of that friendship.”

Redstone on the role of politics: “There has been comment upon my contribution to Democrats like Senator Kerry. Senator Kerry is a good man. I’ve known him for many years. But it happens that I vote for Viacom. Viacom is my life, and I do believe that a Republican Administration is better for media companies than a Democratic one.”

When asked how closely he’s been following the CBS News controversy, he says, “Let me first give you some perspective. Neither I nor any executive at Viacom has any access to or plays any role in the news reports that come from CBS. Like you, we read about them in the newspapers. Notwithstanding that, I have, for obvious reasons, been carefully monitoring the situation. I have been talking continually with (CBS president) Les Moonves and with the members of the Viacom board. Now we have set up an independent panel—and believe me, it is independent, and believe me, it will move very fast—and I am satisfied that they will reach the right and appropriate conclusion and we will then act accordingly.”

When asked if he foresees this incident as having any short-term or long-term impact on the brand, he says, “Of course it’s had a short-term impact. It would be foolish to deny that. But long-term impact? No. Certainly not economic. Eight of the top 10 shows in all of television are shown on CBS. That’s an extraordinary record that can’t be overlooked because of this incident. And what advertisers buy are programs.”

When asked if he sees a need for a change at the News division, he says: “I think it would be too early for me to judge. I intend to maintain a kind of independent view until I see what this panel has to report. And then you can assume that whatever is appropriate will take place.”

When asked about Dan Rather, and if he will be able to remain as long as he wants as anchor, Redstone says, “I already said that I would wait for the report to try to determine whether there should be any consequences to anybody at CBS News. I have found him, by the way, to be a very good reporter over the years. And, frankly, a very good friend. And I grieved all the more because of that friendship.

When asked about politics, Redstone says, “There has been comment upon my contribution to Democrats like Senator Kerry. Senator Kerry is a good man. I’ve known him for many years. But it happens that I vote for Viacom. Viacom is my life, and I do believe that a Republican Administration is better for media companies than a Democratic one.”

When asked if the China market has opened up, he says, “I have been coming here for many years. Those years were spent for the most part in building relationships of friendship and trust with the various officials of the Chinese government. And as a result, from a commercial standpoint the doors have just opened—and they have opened wide.”

Asked how his channels do in China, he says, “Nickelodeon is the highest-rated product on the CCTV (China Central Television) kids’ channel. And we expect to triple our distribution by the end of the year to make the total distribution of MTV China about 10 million.”

Asked how China channels do in the U.S., he says, “We believe in cultural exchange. We’ve gotten CCTV into a lot of hotels in the U.S. We export their product through the MTV Music Awards, which is a joint venture with CCTV. We are doing the things we think will endear us ultimately to China and keep opening the doors.”

Asked if censorship in China is an issue, he says, “We really don’t have that problem. The programming on our channels in China is co-produced with a Chinese company. We are very conscious of the taste of the Chinese people and the Chinese government. And therefore we don’t produce material that invites criticism from China.”

.................

This guy is a realist.
There should be more of them in big media.
He's the captain of a giant org that needs some discipline. I see some strong implications in his statements that should filter down through the ranks of his operation in the near future. If you've been following all the news on Viacom ventures this year, you may see evidence here that the relationship between this once-responsible company and the government that tolerates it may be changing. That would be a change for the good, IMO.
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Old 09-26-2004, 02:41 PM   #362 (permalink)
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But aren't all those quotes, found in yet another media outlet, nothing more than mass media mind control telling you exactly what you want to hear?
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Old 09-26-2004, 05:08 PM   #363 (permalink)
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Yes, of course.
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Old 09-26-2004, 06:13 PM   #364 (permalink)
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I've never gotten to sit with the man ever, but I do know his secretary and his personal food assistant.

He's very down to earth and also a very credible man. He's a no nonsense guy.

one of the myths/legends of the office...

Sumner Redstone and Tom Freston, president of MTV Networks riding up the same elevator. Sumner shakes his head as he looks at Tom. Tom is dressed in a pair of jeans and button down shirt with a sports jacket on. Sumner says something to the effect of "You are worst dressed executive I employ."

Freston replied,"Yes, but I make you the most money."

Sumner responded, "You got me there..."

I didn't spend any pc time today so I didn't get to read the news, thanks for keeping up...
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Old 09-26-2004, 06:38 PM   #365 (permalink)
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I could use a personal food assistant.
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:48 AM   #366 (permalink)
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Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship

Sep 25, 6:26 AM (ET)

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Google Inc. (GOOG)'s recently launched news service in China doesn't display results from Web sites blocked by that country's authorities, raising prickly questions for an online search engine that has famously promised to "do no evil."

Dynamic Internet Technology Inc., a research firm striving to defeat online censorship, conducted tests that found Google omits results from the government-banned sites if search requests are made through computers connecting to the Internet in China.

Steered by an identical search request, computers with a United States connection retrieved results from the sites blocked by China.

"That's a problem because the Chinese people need to know there are alternative opinions from the Chinese government and there are many things being covered up by the government," said Bill Xia, Dynamic's chief executive. "Users expect Google to return anything on the Internet. That's what a search engine does."

Xia suspects Google is cooperating with the Chinese government's censorship efforts to smooth the way for expansion plans that could help the Mountain View-based company boost future profits.

The Chinese government lashed out at Google two years ago when it temporarily blocked access to the company's main search engine before relenting under public pressure.

Google acknowledges its Chinese language news service - introduced on a test basis two weeks ago - is leaving out results from government-banned sites, but the company believes the omissions jibe with its long-standing mission to make its search engine efficient and useful.

If Google were to display results from sites the Chinese government blocks, computer users would end up clicking on links that lead nowhere - something the search engine has always tried to avoid.

"Google has decided that in order to create the best possible search experience for our mainland China users we will not include sites whose content is not accessible," company spokeswoman Debbie Frost said Friday.

Only a "tiny fraction" of Web sites are being excluded by the Chinese news service, Frost said. Xia said his tests indicated Google is excluding Chinese results from at least eight sites, including www.epochtimes.com and www.voanews.com.

Google says the Chinese news service draws upon roughly 1,000 sites - a broader array than in Germany, which trolls 700 sites, and Italy, which monitors about 250 sites.

"It's probably killing them to leave some (Chinese) sites out of its index, but they have probably decided they are doing greater good by providing access to all these other sites," said Forrester Research analyst Charlene Li.

Complaints about Google's search results aren't new.

As its search engine has become more popular in recent years, Google has drawn fire for displaying some results too prominently and downplaying others.

Some organizations also have lodged complaints about the company's policies governing the kinds of ads it will accept.

Google's pledge to "do no evil" - trumpeted loudly by company co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin - is spurring even greater scrutiny of company behavior.

If it wanted to take a political stand, Google could consider posting a disclaimer on the Chinese news site advising visitors the search results may be affected by government censorship, said analyst Li.

A step like that, though, would run the risk of inciting the Chinese government to restrict access to Google's news service.

"Doing no evil doesn't necessarily mean Google has to be the progressive cause for change," Li said. "(In China), they are saying, 'This is the law of the land, and there is nothing we can do to change it.'"

.......................
China gets its way and Google gets to stay. One hand rubs the other. I scratch your back - you scratch mine. Go along to get along. I'm not at all sure that ultimately China will fare any better than the Soviet Union did in stemming the rising tide of free exchange of ideas trumping governmental restrictions. But for now, chalk one up to the forces of totalitarianism. How long can the bamboo curtain remain impervious to the global power of the Net? Time will tell...
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:59 PM   #367 (permalink)
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from Variety.com

In the wake of CBS News' "60 Minutes" controversy, an influential Republican on Tuesday said he wants to convene a Capitol Hill hearing on TV news operations after the Nov. 2 election.



Rep. Joe Barton (news, bio, voting record) (R-Texas), chair of the House Commerce Committee, told a meeting of the TV engineering trade group MSTV in Washington that broadcast network news divisions "need to have safeguards to prevent reporters from infusing their opinions into news reports."


The lawmaker said he wanted to hear from execs of all the nets -- not just CBS -- and threatened to introduce legislation requiring TV news operations to impose safeguards against partisan bias seeping into reports. He backed off the threat of legislation when pressed for specifics.


Barton also implied that TV news is less reliable then the print media, adding that with reality TV such a force in the entertainment world in recent years, many TV news personalities did not begin their careers as "real journalists" working for newspapers and other print media.


CBS declined comment on Barton's remarks.


News execs emphasized that the First Amendment protects the media from government censorship.


Within CBS News, top Republican Dick Thornburgh and former Associated Press prexy-CEO Louis D. Boccardi continued their investigation of the botched "60 Minutes" story. Pair were appointed by CBS News prexy Andrew Heyward and Viacom co-prexy/CBS prexy-CEO Leslie Moonves.

.......................................................

Requiring TV news to be non-biased...what a concept.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:05 AM   #368 (permalink)
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In this week's Time magazine, the Chairman of CBS News, Sumner Redstone, mentioned that he was particularly distressed over the whole Rathergate debacle. In saying this, he also first mentioned, quote:

"Let me give you some perspective. Neither I nor any executives at Viacom has any access to or plays any role in the news reports that come from CBS. Like you, we read about them in the newspapers. Notwithstanding that, I have, for obvious reasons, been carefully monitoring the situation. ..."

Article

Strange days when the Chairman/CEO (and his executives) of a major news network refuses to take responsibility for what his tv anchormen report to the public. Its as if the inmates were running the asylum.

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Old 09-29-2004, 11:13 AM   #369 (permalink)
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Sumner and the rest of the executives here at Viacom conform to corporate culture that lets people do what they do best. If you see it as the inmates running the asylum I guess that's a fair statement, but the more accurate statement is that management doesn't get in the way of the things that the groups are trying to accomplish.

The executives set the directives and boundaries and let the rest of the people do the things that they are good at doing.
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:58 PM   #370 (permalink)
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Cynthetiq, perhaps it has been that way.
But now...
Here's what I see him doing - you tell me exactly how much of a stretch you think it is.
He is sounding a distress call. To ignore the captain's distress is to bring distress upon oneself. This message applies to Rather and the CBS news operation, who have allowed political and personal agendas to tarnish the lustre of the Tiffany Network; Stern, who has allowed his infantile narcisissim to replace entertainment with political diatribe; the liberal media elite - whose agendas and candidates are, by his own definition, not good for his company; MTV, et. al. for the Janet Jackson debacle; and these are to just name a few of the most egregious cases. Can you see these signals in his statements? I most certainly can.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:33 PM   #371 (permalink)
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I don't see him waving a flag of distress. I do see him voicing his concern.

One of the paradigm shifts that has happened over the years is that the media has moved from the simple slant-bias to all out blantant talking head/anchor bias. The commentators have moved from the sidelines of junkets and segments to whole hour shows on all mediums.

I'm not so close to the Viacom floors anymore... I don't get the pulse like I used to from them, but Sumner has always been keen on independent investigations which are paid for by Viacom so it's not really all that "independent."

He's a shrewd businessman, so long as he's making money he's not going to push someone into any corners to conform.

a small tidbit about him: He doesn't use the computer on his desk, he mainly looks at the quotron screen which is a direct stock feed. if that's down for more than 5 minutes he can be very cranky.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:55 PM   #372 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
The executives set the directives and boundaries and let the rest of the people do the things that they are good at doing.
Understood. Yet, the CBS brand (and Rather) has taken a blow, or has it? The public does have a notoriously short attention span, that and new viewers/generations constantly coming aboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
He's a shrewd businessman, so long as he's making money he's not going to push someone into any corners to conform.
I can see this whole thing being a non-issue from a business standpoint. Running a business successfully - making money - is The Bottom Line. That's fine, thats the way it is. And in the context of this whole situation, your above quote about The Boss coming down on someone makes perfect sense.
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:37 PM   #373 (permalink)
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Cynthetiq,
I don't know how on earth else to read a statement like this:
"VIACOM CEO SUMNER REDSTONE’S REACTION TO CBS BACKING DOWN FROM BUSH SERVICE STORY ‘WAS ONE OF SEVERE DISTRESS,’ HE TELLS TIME"

If that was my captain, you better believe I would be reading it that way.

Also again, his statement:

"When asked about politics... “There has been comment upon my contribution to Democrats like Senator Kerry. Senator Kerry is a good man. I’ve known him for many years. But it happens that I vote for Viacom. Viacom is my life, and I do believe that a Republican Administration is better for media companies than a Democratic one.” seems to me to be a clarion call to a kind of realism that is taboo among the intelligensia these days.

The above quotes are just too revolutionary to take mildly, I think. If this isn't rocking the boat, well then the boat is just being pulled down by the weight of its own anchor in the sand - along side of the heads of its crew, who are evidently also waterlogged and sandbound and just about sunk.

Do I over-react? If this was my boss saying these things, I know what I would be thinking. I'd be calling for stories about the coming paradigm shift...
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:57 PM   #374 (permalink)
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It's a messy situation when the first thing that people can think of is to ask the government to step in and do things for us. Are we really so brain-washed as to think that this is a good situation? Anytime we have to reply on government to do things for us, we give away our personal freedoms one-by-one.

What perfect drones we have become for government. Just like little children, the first thing we are trained to do when things get out of hand is to cry "mommy" to the government so that they can step in and "make it all better" for us. Politicians calling for legislation for more government control is like asking for more gasoline to put out a fire.

Art said >> Requiring TV news to be non-biased...what a concept.

I hear new legislation may also be forming to require water to stop being so wet. It would probably be as successful...
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Old 09-29-2004, 03:04 PM   #375 (permalink)
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Art, that story calls our system into question a bit... It makes me wonder whether he thinks his contribution or his vote is worth more in the process. It makes me wonder what it means that he would contribute in one direction while voting in the other - and if that indicates some distrust of the system on a basic level, even as he participates on multiple fronts.
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Old 09-29-2004, 04:47 PM   #376 (permalink)
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ubertuber, realism is sometimes stranger than fiction. I admire his ability to separate his wishful thinking from his responsibilities.

One who can not grasp things in their pragmatic dimension is hopelessly lost. In that condition one speaks mainly to oneself.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:49 PM   #377 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
One who can not grasp things in their pragmatic dimension is hopelessly lost. In that condition one speaks mainly to oneself.
Hehe, I like how you put that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
I don't know how on earth else to read a statement like this:
"VIACOM CEO SUMNER REDSTONE’S REACTION TO CBS BACKING DOWN FROM BUSH SERVICE STORY ‘WAS ONE OF SEVERE DISTRESS,’ HE TELLS TIME"

If that was my captain, you better believe I would be reading it that way.

Also again, his statement:

"When asked about politics... “There has been comment upon my contribution to Democrats like Senator Kerry. Senator Kerry is a good man. I’ve known him for many years. But it happens that I vote for Viacom. Viacom is my life, and I do believe that a Republican Administration is better for media companies than a Democratic one.” seems to me to be a clarion call to a kind of realism that is taboo among the intelligencia these days.

The above quotes are just too revolutionary to take mildly, I think. If this isn't rocking the boat, well then the boat is just being pulled down by the weight of its own anchor in the sand - along side of the heads of its crew, who are evidently also waterlogged and sandbound and just about sunk.

Do I over-react? If this was my boss saying these things, I know what I would be thinking. I'd be calling for stories about the coming paradigm shift........
Who will win? Big Government or Big Business? It seems to me reasonable to think that, in governing a country, that country's media would fall under the jurisdiction of the government of the country it does business in. Probably somewhat naive of me. It does paint a bizarre picture - of Big Business running the show under a political construct such as the First Amendment. Art, would this be an American phenonmena or does this type of thing happen in other countries too?

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Old 09-29-2004, 07:19 PM   #378 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
looking at what's obvious.
occasionally, for a moment at a time, pay attention to your thoughts. how would you describe them? ordered? rational? do they sometimes seem to be a big jumble of adolescent rambling, low-level bitching, self-criticism, obsessive-compulsive spontaneous repetitions of pieces of previous thoughts, parts of old scripts, generally negative self-image-wise? what could be causing this?

many hundreds, sometimes thousands of commercial messages a day enter our minds. do we have nearly that many ordered, edited, professionally produced personal thoughts in a day? do ordered, edited, professionally produced, manipulative commercial messages seem more coherent than our normal thoughts?

imagine one's self-image being molded from an early age by commercial messages, bits of songs, lines from movies, etc. one's self-image is a pretty deep part of oneself, wouldn't you say? how about what we think of others? does what we think of others seem affected, colored, influenced by commercial messages of what is the ideal way to be? do the commercial representations of the ideal way to be seem to affect our self-image as they do our judgement of others? how about what we think of the world and our place in it? affected, influenced by commercial messages?
I've observed my thoughts before, and try to do so with at least some frequency. Rarely do I find myself thinking of buying something, or of a TV show or a movie. My thoughts are generally more focused on real life, or hypothetical life (ie. real life that isn't real yet). One thing I do notice though, is frequently there are songs going through my head. Aside from that though, nothing untoward regarding the media.
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Old 09-30-2004, 12:25 AM   #379 (permalink)
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powerclown, great question. I figure this is how it is in postmodern USA at the start of the 21st century. The underlying power dynamics (media, government, intelligensia, populace, global audience) however, seem to me to describe the basal situation as it exists in other countries as well.
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Old 10-05-2004, 11:50 AM   #380 (permalink)
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NBC Nightly News Puts 'ILIE' in Graphic Next to Bush's Face

There have been some pretty good examples of MMMC during the 2004 Presidential election season. I thought I'd start with this one and perhaps work our way back.



enjoy.
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Old 10-05-2004, 02:17 PM   #381 (permalink)
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ART, if you don't mind me asking, do you happen to be a para-military type of guy?
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:35 PM   #382 (permalink)
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I showed the last graphic to several people who were all very skeptical about the intent of the graphic. No one really thought there was anything to it that could have been intentional.

To quote an old saying, "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled off was making people believe that he didn't exist". I think the same saying could apply here. I wonder how many people run across this thread and think "what a crock of shit!" ? I get this response all of the time when I broach the topic with friends or acquaintances and I imagine that is what most of the controllers of information want.

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Old 10-05-2004, 06:48 PM   #383 (permalink)
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Suave, I'd like to answer your question, but it's not a term I use.

Anyway, I see the image as right down the middle of the topic of this thread. In the world at large, we see what we want to see - but in the media we only see what we are shown. This thread is really about drawing your own conclusions as to what the "meaning" of it all is.
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Old 10-05-2004, 07:19 PM   #384 (permalink)
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I know that this may cover ground that has already been covered but for the people who don't read the entire thread for content...

Art said >> in the media we only see what we are shown.

I wanted to add to that thought and state that the converse also applies.

We also DON'T see what Mass Media doesn't want us to see. It's really the same thing. MM is not only controlling the images and sounds that we are bombarded with, but they also selectively deny us information that works contrary to their goals. Whether you call it conspiracy or coincidence, we are completely at the mercy of the networks and news outlets for our daily information dose.

My local hospital just had it's first reported case of Mad Cow disease with the diagnosis of a 40 year old woman. She was given a terminal prognosis. No news reports, no newspaper articles, - nothing. It's big friggin news here in the USA when it happens somewhere else but when it hits here, not a peep.

From the lack of coverage, you might get the idea that there is no chance that anyone has gotten the disease and thus assume that there is no danger. If the newspapers and networks are right, there isn't. I will be curious to see how the next few days play out and see what comes of this.

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Old 10-05-2004, 07:39 PM   #385 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Suave, I'd like to answer your question, but it's not a term I use.

Anyway, I see the image as right down the middle of the topic of this thread. In the world at large, we see what we want to see - but in the media we only see what we are shown. This thread is really about drawing your own conclusions as to what the "meaning" of it all is.
Fair enough. It wasn't that important a question anyways.

As far as mass media control, that's why even reputable news stories should be taken with healthy skepticism. Fortunately, while "the media" (an almost ominous-sounding term in this context) does have a large influence on us as a society, if not as individuals, it is not focused on negatively affecting us. Generally, what is or is not shown by the media is selected because they want to intrigue more people, and therefore increase profits, so on the whole, negative effects are felt as an unfortunate consequence of relatively harmless greed. It gets more dangerous however, when one in control of a powerful information medium has a political/moral/etc agenda, which is thankfully either rare or relatively weak.
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:25 AM   #386 (permalink)
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Quote:
http://www.kuenselonline.com/print.php?sid=4618

19 October 2004 - FEATURE

Five years of cable television

In June 1999 Bhutan switched on the TV, the last country in the world to do so. Today, most Bhutanese are riding the signals - excited, exhilarated, confused, and often depressed.

And it is rapidly changing Bhutanese society, according to a media impact study done in 2003. To begin with, the study conducted by a private Bhutanese consultancy firm, Mediacom Consultancy, states that television was introduced in Bhutan with minimal preparation. Bhutan Broadcasting Service (BBS) television was still in its infancy when cable or satellite television was let in with a digital roar three months after BBS TV went on air. BBS TV, after five years of its launch, is making moves to expand coverage beyond Thimphu and improve content.

What resulted was a wave of channels with indiscriminate foreign content, so Bhutanese youth became the vulnerable target of global culture.

"With the introduction of global television Bhutanese found themselves with a choice of up to 45 channels," says Siok Sian Pek, who led the 2003 media impact study. "This chaotic and unregulated introduction of cable TV is not unlike the experience in South Asia and other developing countries but the impact will be far greater in Bhutan, a small and vulnerable society with limited resources and difficult terrain."

The study found out that impact was already perceptible in all sections of the society, while it was strongest in the urban segment.

The study of a Kuenselonline poll in 2000 and 2003 showed that TV had drastically changed a third of the respondents' lives. About 31.5 percent of the respondents to the poll said that their life style had completely changed after the introduction of cable TV, up from 2000 poll figure of 22.16 percent.

Families were also experiencing internal tensions because of differing interests which led to some families installing more than one TV set so that family members could watch the programmes of their choice. More and more families were spending less time together with men often complaining that their wives were so hooked on Indian serials that they started neglecting their household chores.

The report asserts that TV was undeniably influencing the values of urban population "importing influences from the outside world". "TV has changed social behaviour in the sense that public interaction - holding hands, kissing - has become more acceptable," the report states. "People claim TV has broadened the minds and attitudes of society."

Most popular channels in Bhutanese homes were from Rupert Murdoch's Star network like the Star TV, Zee TV and Sony TV packages broadcast from India. This resulted in Bhutanese viewers becoming more familiar with the lives of middle class society in India. Global statistics shows that the Star network reaches more than 300 million people across Asia and the Middle East.

Teachers in urban schools complained that students watched TV late into the night (another informal survey found out that Bhutanese children watched 12 hours of TV on average per week) and were "less focused in class, obsessed with TV characters and picking up language and mannerisms from Hindi and western films". "Programmes like World Wrestling Entertainment has spawned a small cult in Bhutanese children who developed new heroes like The Rock, Stone Cold, Gold Berg, and Brock Lesnar. Several schools claim that they have advised parents to restrict children from viewing WWE," the report says.

A headmistress from one of the Bumthang schools related to the study team an incident when one of the students suffered a broken hand when his friend "
threw him WWE-style".

Bhutanese languages have also become the victim of foreign media. The youth were learning more Hindi and English. Dzongkha was being increasingly sidelined with more youth believing that speaking English commanded more self-esteem and gave them an air of superiority. The switch to foreign languages was most observable during parties.

"When we meet we want to speak English because we have become ashamed of speaking Dzongkha," one youth interviewed by the study group confided. "We have a concept that those who don't speak English are conservative, old fashioned and orthodox people. Even among ourselves we are not very comfortable speaking total Dzongkha."

The study found varying views on the cultural influence of TV on Bhutanese society. While some sections voiced their concern that the Bhutanese society was leaning more towards western culture by the day, there were other optimistic segments that said that despite the deluge of foreign cultural products, Bhutanese would maintain their own culture. The cultural influence, however, was found to be already in. For example, more youth including sections of adults were increasingly donning western outfits and more people were getting fashion ideas from TV.

The study particularly found out that Thimphu youth were greatly influenced by what they claimed "modern" culture. They found western life styles and music appealing.

Advertisements mattered more to the Bhutanese today than they did five years ago. The cultural power of marketing and advertising today was immensely challenging the indigenous culture.

Parents, whom the study team talked to, had contrasting opinions as well.
Most believed that TV had positive influences on children. It boosted their confidence, gave exposure, and helped them become better informed. Parents also promised their children more time with TV if they did well in examinations. About
56 percent of the parents who responded to the study said they did not restrict children's choices compared to 44 percent who responded otherwise. While 50 percent believed TV helped their children learn, 40 percent thought it was more entertainment. Some parents believed TV kept their children occupied.

One upbeat Thimphu parent, Phuntsho Dorji, agrees that TV is making Bhutan a more consumerist society. He says that the biggest positive impact TV made was on sports. "Bhutanese people also have more access to information than ever before which I think is a good thing," he says. "Hindi serials are popular with women because they are based on strong family values no matter how bad the programme may be to some of us. Housewives do adjust evening dinner not to miss their favourite serial."

Another Thimphu civil servant adds that as an oral based society Bhutanese are more tuned to watching TV where "people just listen instead of active participation in the programme by having to read or write". "My son and his cousin'
s heroes are Batman, Spiderman and the like. They were my childhood heroes too because I read about them in comics," he says.

There are others, however, who strongly feel that TV is diluting the in built Bhutanese society that has always prided itself on its rich culture and tradition. "There has been an unprecedented influx of foreign elements in such a short time," says Ugyen Tshering, a civil servant. "But the more disturbing thing is that we have been readily assimilating these western low cultural products, without even questioning them. There is danger in such a terrifying hunger.
"

Bhutan observers from abroad also see TV as assailing the society faster than ever before. Most say youth have been the most vulnerable target. People like Dr. David Walsh, the president of the National Institute on Media and Family in Minneapolis, USA, warn that Bhutanese should work with an increased sense of urgency to protect children from the "violence and smut" of media. "Now that Bhutan has entered the electronic age, it needs to face the challenges this new age presents," he says. "The clash between 'TV values' and community values occurs everywhere television is available. Allowing your children to watch whatever they want whenever they want to watch it is like allowing a total stranger into your home. No sane parent would ever do that. The key is to set guidelines about how much and what can be watched."

Western media scholars say that the rapid growth of global music and movies with universal appeal for the young has led to a new generation and culture gap. The young population of the world today, the scholars say, have more in common with each other than with their older parents, teachers and relatives. As the media report shows more and more young people and adolescents in Bhutan dress and behave in a manner often resented by the older generation. "The real issue is that modernisation can be seen as a contradiction to culture and tradition," says Siok Sian Pek. "The underlying risk here is that if tradition is seen as opposing modernisation, the youth can reject tradition."

Several parents Kuensel talked to share this fear of impending "underlying risk". This rejection looks imminent some parents say adding that what worries them most is their children suddenly "acting strange, becoming strange" which they interpret as "slow sidelining of Bhutanese values, attitudes and aspirations by the young".

Is Bhutan then on the way to what has been often referred to as "cultural imperialism"? "The fear of negative influences from foreign media content spurred by cultural concerns is the key element of cultural imperialism," says professor Stig Arne Norhstedt of Orebro University, Sweden, who has authored numerous books on global media studies. "The presence of strong foreign broadcast media in a country like Bhutan and people's willingness to internalise the imported foreign content will certainly weaken the development of the indigenous media like the BBS TV. This is bound to have a severe cultural influence in the long run."

Bhutan certainly lacks the expertise and resources to establish a vibrant and competent domestic communication system that can authentically reflect its history, needs, concerns, values, and culture. The dominance of foreign channels in Bhutanese households proves that it is far cheaper for the service providers to import foreign TV products than to domestically produce them.

Bhutan escaped the mercantile colonialism of 1700 to 1950 when powerful industrialised nations colonised countries around the world for cheap raw materials and labour. Bhutan, however, has undeniably become a helpless victim of media colonialism. And media colonialism, experts warn, could have worse effects than the mercantile colonialism.

In a 2002 university radio programme, Bhutan Wired, the professor and dean of the Graduate School of Journalism at the University of California at Berkeley, Orville Schell, says that if there is equilibrium that need to be maintained in a good life, Bhutan is one of the last places that has a chance to engineer that equilibrium in an intelligent way. But for the present Professor Schell certainly seems as confused as most Bhutanese when he says, "I am not sure, you know, all of these cable channels being lofted over the mountains and into these once-sylvan, quiet, peaceful valleys is the way to effect it."

By Gopilal Acharya in Orebro University, Sweden gopiacharya@kuensel.com.bt


This article comes from Kuensel Online
http://www.kuenselonline.com

The URL for this story is:
http://www.kuenselonline.com/article.php?sid=4618
I thought this was an interesting read. It shows just how powerful the media really is in affecting cultural changes over a short period of time. Those of you who are geographically challenged Bhutan is between China and India.
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:38 AM   #387 (permalink)
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Yes, absolutely. Thanks for that comprehensive post, Cynthetiq.

It's been clear to me for many decades that television is the most powerful tool for mind alteration that humankind has ever developed. And the manner in which it has been implemented and utilized is almost wholly pernicious. On balance, we are all the worse for it.
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Old 11-08-2004, 11:32 AM   #388 (permalink)
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Adding propaganda to the long list of media flaws, there remains only one more intrerpretation to add at this time - it is the old CYA option. It's important to investigate the lies perpetrated by idealogues from all parts of the spectrum when deconstructing the messages we receive on a daily basis. And the CYA strategem is quite universal. An egregious example follows:
..........................

from ... w w w . b r o a d c a s t i n g c a b l e . c o m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sweating Bush II at CBS

By Staff -- Broadcasting & Cable, 11/8/2004 10:44:00 AM


Players involved in the notorious 60 Minutes II story, reported by Dan Rather, which employed dubious documents regarding President Bush’s National Guard service, may have been rooting for a John Kerry victory.

No, it wasn’t that old bugaboo liberal media bias as much as it was a bias toward saving their own skins. The report from an internal investigation into the documents mess was purposely being held until after the election.

Pre-election, the feeling in some quarters at CBS was that if Kerry triumphed, fallout from the investigation would be relatively minimal. The controversial piece’s producer, Mary Mapes, would likely be suspended or fired, but a long list of others up the chain of command—from 60 Minutes II executive producer Josh Howard, to Rather and all the way up to news division President Andrew Heyward—would escape more or less unscathed.

But now, faced with four more years of President Bush, executives at CBS parent Viacom could take a harder line on the executives involved.
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:33 PM   #389 (permalink)
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More news on this today.
.................

Media Research Center Releases
“The Ten Worst Media Distortions
of Campaign 2004”



“The media, I think, wants Kerry to win. … And I think they’re going to portray Kerry and Edwards – I’m talking about the establishment media, not Fox – but they’re going to portray Kerry and Edwards as being young and dynamic and opportunistic and all. There’s going to be this glow about them … that’s going to be worth maybe 15 points.” – Newsweek Assistant Managing Editor Evan Thomas, “Inside Washington,” WUSA-TV, 7/10/04.

ALEXANDRIA, Va.—The Media Research Center today released a special report, “The Ten Worst Media Distortions of Campaign 2004,” as compiled and ranked by MRC analysts.

“The liberal ‘news’ media have been as big an issue in this campaign as anything else. It is a fact: The media chose sides early and have acted as extensions of the Democratic National Committee and the Kerry-Edwards campaign,” said MRC President Brent Bozell.

The Ten Worst Media Distortions of Campaign 2004

Dan Rather’s Forgery Fiasco

Ignoring, Then Attacking, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Pounding the Bush National Guard Story

Spinning a Good Economy into Bad News

The Networks’ Outrageous Convention Double-Standard

Swooning Over Edwards’ Image, Ignoring His Liberalism

CBS’s Byron Pitts Promotional Kerry Coverage

CBS Promotes Fears of a New Military Draft

Misrepresenting the 9/11 Commission on Iraq/al-Qaeda Links

Equating New Terrorism Warning to LBJ’s “Gulf of Tonkin”
Rathergate … CBS News had to appoint an outside two-member investigating committee to find out how and why a) Dan Rather aired a hatchet job on President Bush based on forged documents that CBS was warned about and b) CBS Producer Mary Mapes coordinated with senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart concerning the discredited source of those documents.

The Attack On The Swift Boat Vets … Last spring, over 250 Vietnam War contemporaries, including veterans who served with him when he was a Swift Boat commander and his entire chain of command, came forward to publicly challenge Kerry’s version of Vietnam and his anti-war activities. After being ignored for several weeks the media turned on these honorable men with a vengeance, rather than give them a shred of credibility.

Good Economic Numbers = Bad News? … When Bill Clinton ran for re-election in 1996, unemployment was at 5.2 percent, inflation 3 percent, and economic growth 2.2 percent. Today, as Bush stands for re-election, unemployment is at 5.4 percent, inflation 2.7 percent and economists’ consensus forecast for economic growth this quarter is 3.7 percent. Coverage of the Clinton economic data was overwhelmingly favorable (35 positive, 6 negative stories). Under Bush, it’s literally reversed to 6 positive, 38 negative. Numbers don’t lie. Bias is the only explanation.

The Networks’ Convention Double-Standard … Democratic speakers who savaged Republicans in Boston were touted by network journalists as “rock stars.” But journalists turned sour when covering the Republicans in New York. CNN’s Bill Schneider on the GOP: “This is a very angry convention, it’s a very belligerent convention.” TIME’s Joe Klein, a CNN contributor: “I’ve been doing this for a fair number of years and I don’t think I’ve seen anything as angry or as ugly as [Sen. Zell] Miller’s speech.”

CBS’s Byron Pitts, in a Pro-Kerry Class of His Own … Pitts, on the day Kerry accepted the Democratic nomination: “Tonight’s acceptance of the Democratic nomination is more than merely a day, it’s [Kerry’s] destiny.” Pitts, attacking the leader of the Swift Boat Veterans instead of addressing their charges: “Their leader, John O’Neill, was also Richard Nixon’s point man in attacks on John Kerry’s protest of the Vietnam War 30 years ago.” Pitts, on Teresa Heinz Kerry: “Both rich and reachable.”

CBS Cooks Up Fictitious Draft Story … CBS correspondent Richard Schlesinger focused this story around Beverly Cocco, portraying her as a mom “petrified about a military draft.” He never mentioned she is the activist leader of a group called “People Against the Draft.” He never mentioned that the Pentagon, the Republican Party, and the Bush campaign all oppose a new draft. Dan Rather introduced the segment this way: “A mother worries her son will be drafted. Does she have good reason?” Both Schlesinger and Producer Linda Karas cited erroneous email chatter about the draft as justification for doing an Evening News segment. Karas incredulously intoned: “The truth of the e-mails were absolutely irrelevant to the piece.”

“The major media are doing all they can to help elect Kerry, just as Newsweek’s Evan Thomas indicated,” said Bozell. “This report presents some of the worst media distortions this year, and proves beyond all doubt that the elite media are not objective or fair or balanced. They are liberal partisans who are sacrificing any remaining credibility in an effort to defeat President Bush.”

.......................

I'm of the opinion that, although the distortions came from both sides - and they continue apace - that there is in fact an ideological predilection in what may be described as the old media - as opposed to newer channels - which may be said to lean toward bias in the other direction. In any event, it's more disinformation. Is it any wonder we carry on the way we do - all of us?
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Old 11-08-2004, 02:49 PM   #390 (permalink)
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi...&date=20041108

November 08, 2004

Why we are slaves to marketing

by Kay McFadden / Times staff columnist

Here's a little experiment: Before you read this paper, relate to it.

Does the soft pulpiness and sober typeface make you think of mom and dad or a paper-pushing bureaucrat? Did your 50 cents purchase a sense of community or of individual distinction?

I know - you simply wanted some news. But as "The Persuaders" informs us at 10 p.m. tomorrow on PBS, that's probably just your cortex talking.

One of "Frontline's" best productions all year, "The Persuaders" is a fascinating delve into how today's marketers influence our choices, from cheese to political candidates to Boeing's plush Dreamliner.

The 90-minute show features media critic Douglas Rushkoff, who collaborated on last year's teensploitation exposé, "The Merchants of Cool."

This time, the bottom line is even colder.

"My theory is simple," says Dr. Clotaire Rapaille, introduced as the Fortune 500 king of consumer code-cracking. "The reptilian brain is always going to win."

It may seem less than revelatory to say emotion trumps logic when we make selections. But last week's election and the news media's subsequent surprise demonstrate that this rule isn't taken seriously enough.

"The Persuaders" interviews Frank Luntz, the nation's leading provider of market research to Republican and conservative politicians.

"Eighty percent of our life is emotion and only 20 percent is intellect,"
says Luntz, whose clients include Rudolph Giuliani and Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi. "I am much more interested in how you feel than how you think."

Although the actual recent election isn't included, "The Persuaders" cites 2004's visceral campaign ads and the strategy of finding emotional issues likely to boost voting by certain groups.

Feeling also enables a person to sweep aside environmental concerns for the dominating thrill of an SUV or to opt for a sense of belonging that bolsters the cultlike enthusiasm surrounding Mac, Saturn and eBay.

Naturally, consumer companies have been well ahead in utilizing this trend.

That's where "The Persuaders" starts, by setting us amid the neural overload of Times Square and the musings of Ad Age magazine columnist Bob Garfield.

"Somewhere beneath all these ads is the city I grew up in," he says. "But over the last 20 years, it's grown a second skin: a twinkling membrane of commercial messages."

Garfield then proceeds to a party sponsored by Song, a Delta Airlines division trying to launch itself in a market already saturated with competition and low-budget price wars.

The saga of Song is meant to be a narrative thread. But while facets of the company's image-making process are interesting and even unintentionally funny, Song itself never gets off the ground and fades away before "The Persuaders"
is over.

Fortunately, it doesn't matter, because Garfield's pilgrimage through the world of Madison Avenue is so riveting. He wants to know - and so do we - how it became so simultaneously blatant and insidious.

The modern marketing era began in the early '90s, we are told, when traditional methods of selling based on performance no longer mattered because products were becoming too comparable. The bombardment of reiteration wore away credibility.

Moreover, the increasing clutter of ads made a different approach inevitable.
Advertising was undergoing a consolidation trend as frantic marketers began abandoning long-standing relationships in search of the new big thing.

That turned out to be lifestyle advertising. Starbucks flogged the notion of meeting-place community; Benetton made clothes buying an endorsement of multiculturalism; Nike touted personal transcendence through sports.

Since then, the notion of creating clubs to which consumers want to belong has become more and more refined. Product lifestyle is a total immersion experience.

Ad strategist Doug Atkin, a brand manager at Procter & Gamble in the mid-'90s, recalls the "Eureka!" moment when he heard a group of people wax enthusiastic about their favorite sneakers.

Atkin immediately proceeded to make a study of what he calls cults, ranging from Hare Krishna to Harley Davidson.

His conclusion: "People, whether they are joining a cult or a brand, do so for exactly the same reasons. They need to belong and they want to make meaning."

Corporations nowadays approach brand-building within a similar framework. And their mechanisms for targeting the faithful go well beyond mere demographics, as revealed in a look at the gigantic information clearinghouse Acxiom.

At Acxiom, the population has been sorted into 70 different types, drawn from a compilation of census input, tax records, marketing lists and purchasing data. It sounds absolutely hateful to be reduced to a type, but I guess that's part of belonging.

It also seems wrong to talk about guilty pleasures in a show devoted to dissecting our unthinking desires. But "The Persuaders" provides a bevy of ad clips that are fun to see.

Viewers also will notice that what seemed sophisticated 15 years ago now looks clumsy, even as commercials from 40 years ago provoke nostalgia. You almost wince in advance for the sure-to-become-quaint spectacle of today's hip iPod spot.

A major theme in "The Persuaders" is the constant state of war between consumer boredom and marketing blandishment.

This is never so pointed as in the segment dealing with television commercials, the lifeblood of two industries.

TiVo and similar technologies have enabled viewers to tune out. The empire has struck back with product placement, ranging from prizes on "Survivor" to actual story lines, as when "Sex and The City" made Samantha's boyfriend into the Absolut Hunk.

"The Persuaders" covers vast swaths of territory without neglecting many vital details. Wisely, it doesn't try to reach for any sweeping conclusions. The program's balance may lie in the fact that for every marketing tactic that appalled me, others were enticing.

But "Frontline" producers are discriminating.

They note there's a big difference between pushing products and political agenda - although ironically, only product claims have to be true. Tape this show and save it for the next election cycle.


Kay McFadden: kmcfadden@seattletimes.com
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Old 11-08-2004, 02:58 PM   #391 (permalink)
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Our godly president:





An image just like the second one (yet an entirely different picture) was also used on the front page of CNN.com a day or two after Bush won the election.
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Old 11-08-2004, 03:43 PM   #392 (permalink)
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Cynthetiq, thanks much for the heads up!

Yes, sadly we overestimate our ability to make reasonable choices. It's vanity - pure and simple. We like to flatter ourselves. We have a great deal of vested interest in denying our sorry manipulable lot.
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Old 11-08-2004, 03:50 PM   #393 (permalink)
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yes, I'm very much looking forward to this since it is being done by the same people that did Merchants of Cool about MTV. I know how much research we put into our products I have no idea as to what goes on at Disney or Time Warner, but I will guess that in order to compete at the best levels they have to be doing something along the same lines.
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Old 11-09-2004, 08:20 AM   #394 (permalink)
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*runs over to the tv and turns it off*
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Old 11-09-2004, 09:00 AM   #395 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KinkyKiwi
*runs over to the tv and turns it off*
the only problem with that is that it isn't just TV. It's all media from internet to print, TV to radio.
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Old 11-09-2004, 11:21 AM   #396 (permalink)
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another review of the Frontline episode airing tonight.

Quote:
November 9, 2004
TV REVIEW: 'THE PERSUADERS'
How They Make You Buy Buy Buy
By NED MARTEL

rontline" decodes advertisers' latent meanings and manufactured responses in "The Persuaders," an ambitious report leavened by the puckish narration of Douglas Rushkoff. The message is that soon no brain will be beyond the reach of peddlers and pleaders, who know a surprising amount about each American's purchasing predisposition.

Yet "The Persuaders" says that the more shoppers are bombarded, the less they respond. Or as one industry expert says: "Consumers are like roaches. You spray them and spray them and after a while it doesn't work."

Consequently, buy-now messages are buried in lofty language. Advertisers now imagine a target audience not as pests but as spirits in need of uplift. This so-called mission marketing started with the Apple corporation and it has produced cultish brand loyalists, the sort of customer devotion and sense of purpose that companies want.

The report shows that the car manufacturer Saturn literally has a field day for its dedicated fans, who trek to Tennessee to share some egalitarian vibes. Volkswagen, through its commercials, tells customers to feel connected to other sentient hipsters caught in a world of conformists. Starbucks, we are told, sought to create a third place in the consumer's life, something between home and office.

So what could be the mission for Song, a Delta Air Lines subsidiary geared toward female passengers? Despite its fiscal crisis, the company hired the "brand visionary" Andy Spade, who once marketed his wife, Kate, into an aspirational icon for more prim fashionistas. Not only was Mr. Spade offering the company Kate Spade-designed flight-attendant uniforms, he also claimed to give Song and its executives with "a substance and a texture and a life that they might not know how to create."

Evoking Jean-Luc Godard and Francois Truffaut for his commercials, Mr. Spade was given free rein to depict happy people flying kites in the meadow, but no planes. Of course, clients fret about runaway costs of ethereal messages. One reported industry aphorism is: "I know I'm wasting half my ad dollars. I just don't know which half."

The program combines the practicality of an M.B.A. case study and the skepticism of a semiotics seminar. Mr. Rushkoff and his producers keep an ear open for quirky terminology, which marketers craft at great expense and defend with high-mindedness. In passing, there is mention of World Wrestling Entertainment as "a masculine ballet," of Tide detergent as "an enabler," of Polaroid cameras as "a social lubricant" and of Cheerios as "full of mystery." (Cut to a grandmother feeding a baby, using the cereal as props for a family tale.) The sturdiness of Chinet plates somehow holds up both traditional values and spoonfuls of coleslaw.

The program raises the question: are there more brands desperate for a mission than missions left to undertake? Marketers must find new ways to connect their merchandise with publicly experienced emotion. Predictably, Mr. Rushkoff cites product placements in television and movies, especially the makeover variety like Bravo's "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." The more effective example would have been ABC's "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition," which melts hearts by showering presents on calamity-stricken families. (It should really be called "Tears for Sears" in honor of its sponsor.)

Near the end of its 90 minutes, "The Persuaders" drifts into a discussion of political messages, which are equally intricate, harder to regulate and deserving of another program all their own. Suffice it to say that Palm Pilots are now a tool to provide targeted voters with some very specific ads that might not be shown to their neighbors. Who receives which message is determined by creepily precise demographic profiles, and both political parties employ the Arkansas-based Acxiom Corporation to compile data on nearly every swing voter. A "Frontline" story for another time, let's hope, but in the meantime, "The Persuaders" will help you start to see these marketers as clearly as they see you.

FRONTLINE: THE PERSUADERS

PBS, tonight at 9, check local listings.

Produced and directed by Barak Goodman and Rachel Dretzin; Muriel Soenens, and WGBH Boston, producers; Frontline and Ark Media, co-producers; David Fanning, executive producer; Douglas Rushkoff, correspondent.

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Old 11-09-2004, 11:24 AM   #397 (permalink)
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from gothamist.com and they even see where their role is in the process...
Quote:



In a subject near and dear to Gothamist's heart, the PBS show Frontline looks at the advertising-marketing-branding machine in a 90-minute program, The Persuaders. With Douglas Rushkoff corresponding, The Persuaders looks to lift the veil of advertising and marketing to inform viewers exactly how they are being targetted. And as many of us know, it's in every way possible, by preying upon our behaviors and attitudes and trying to engage our emotions into thinking we really need that product. Think about your commute to work or your walk outside today - there were probably ads on the walls of buildings, sides of buses, insides of trains, messages blaring from TVs. How can you not watch and listen to marketers explain things like product placement in shows: "If you can tell that it was advertising within the context of the story, it didn't work. It's all about how the writer and brand engage in that very, very interesting narrow space so that it feels natural." Gothamist is an unabashed part of the advertising process, and we can't help but recommend anything that helps everyone underestand it better. The Persuaders is on PBS, channel 13, tonight at 9PM. Yes, that conflicts with Veronica Mars, but this week's Veronica Mars will repeat next Tuesday on MTV at 7PM.

The NY Times thinks the show is a worthy watch. And Gothamist loves advertising when it involves pandas in Times Square.
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Old 11-09-2004, 02:22 PM   #398 (permalink)
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I read through the first few pages of this thread and, don't take this the wrong way, I have to say that there's a lot of "tinfoil hat" wearing going on here.

I don't really ever listen to the radio. TV... I watch occasionally. One or two sitcoms, some Adult Swim, that's about it. Probably no more than an hour or two a week. I watch a lot of movies.

News... I don't pay attention to local news. I'll glance at CNN occasionally to see what's going on in the world.

I consider myself so far detached from effects of "media" and advertising that I had a very hard time relating to much of what was posted in this thread. I did, however, understand the points that were made on how one could probably misinterpret one thing as something else.

First off, I want to make a comment on the pictures shown - when I looked at the picture of the flowers, I saw flowers. When I looked at the Gin, I saw Gin. Later, when someone said, "Sex" is hidden in the pictures, I went back and saw it. Ok, nice optical illusion. What exactly does this prove aside from the fact that the eye tends to immediately focus on a more dominant color?

Same with the dolphin/sexual picture. All that proves is that it's a clever optical illusion - there isn't anything "hidden" going on aside from that. Your eyes see the picture and they naturally pick up the image of the two people. It'd be the same if the image was a plane, car, apple, whatever made up of small starfish or waffles.

Second, referring to the Palmolive pictures - what point are you trying to make? The arm belongs to another person with the words "Who can resist the gentle touch". As if hordes of people rush out to suddenly buy up the world's stock in palmolive or something. When I buy soap, I think, "I need some dish soap because I have dishes to wash. I don't give a damn what kind it is, it just better work good." Likewise if I buy bars of soap/shower gel. I buy what smells good and doesn't make my skin feel like crap.

Same with the Gin. Yeah, I could see how it somewhat resembles the word "sex" in the ice cubes, but there's no proof presented with that picture to show that the brain picks out that insanely hidden item to associate Gin with "sex". Did people get this sudden urge and say, "You know, Gin sounds pretty good right about now"? You have to look pretty hard to see it. When I buy alcohol, I buy whatever tastes good for the simple fact that I want to enjoy a nice buzz. I could care less if there's a bottle of absolut shoved up some girl's crotch or a bottle of budweiser being deep throated by a cheerleader. The last alcohol I purchased was a bottle of Barenjager. Honestly, I've never seen an ad for it in my life. I normally buy Corona - those commercials have people lounging on a beach enjoying a nice vacation. I could care less. It could show the bottles submerged in a vat of maggots. That particular beer tastes good to me, so it's what I buy. I'm assuming most people are the same way.

What's up with the picture of the water being sprayed everywhere? What, the water bottle represents a phallic object and the water spraying all over is supposed to be semen? It's bottled water. I think it's stupid to buy bottled water as it is, but that's another story.

I have an example: Axe body spray. Those commercials are so blatantly full of sex, it's not even funny. I can see how people would go out and buy that, because it smells good. Are people seduced by the sex? Probably, but it's an ad. The ad is saying, "Hey, if you want to smell good, come check this product out." No one wants to smell like ASS, right?

I believe that if you pay attention to one thing long enough, you'll see it all over. The same applies to certain mathematics and how people are amazed at how certain numbers are abundant in nature, etc. In this case, the obsessed topic happens to be sex. I'm not denying that the media puts images of sexy women to sell beers or whatever, but it's not like it's this grand conspiracy in an attempt to control your life make you buy strange amounts of palmolive, gin, or Dasani.

The kid looking anxious into the book while the woman in the background has her hand by her crotch... yeah, if you stare at it (like any other picture), I'm sure you can get a huge novel out of it: "Hey, hurry up and straighten your life out so we can go have sex. Then I can buy you a pizza and we can build some stuff out of legos!" I just have a hard time believing that people see something like that and suddenly get this urge to go take out a loan or think "shit, my life is in ruins."

The Phillip Morris picture w/ the kid on the snowboard... it looks like a match. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have them embed a hidden cigarette in the outline of the skiier's jacket? Why a match? The subliminal mind picks it up, "Hey, let's go light a match. Yay."

Speaking of subliminal minds, last I heard, many studies have shown that there's no evidence of subliminal marketing on people. Or is that what "they" want me to think? The guy who put images of popcorn and coke in between clips in his movie theater.. didn't he later admit to lying about the fact that it drove up his sales?

Just because there's an ad for it on the TV doesn't make someone "consumer sheep" if they go out and buy something, either. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy these things.

For example, I need a new vacuum. I happened upon a commercial for a Dyson vacuum that claims it works great and sucks up all kinds of junk out of your carpet. I went online, read reviews, and found that almost all who use it say it's damn great! So if I buy this, what exactly am I falling prey to? I DO need a new vacuum considering my old one is a POS.. and I DO want my house to remain clean!

What about commercials for places that have sales on clothes, or Best Buy ads that say, "DVDs are 10% off this week!" No one's forcing you to buy DVDs. It's saying, "Hey, if there's a DVD you want, come by our place because we're having this crazy thing called a sale."

Personally, I don't pay attention to most ads, and maybe that's the reason I'm skeptical about a lot of what's in this thread (or, at least, the first half). In the rare occasion that I do watch TV, I flip the channel whenever a commercial comes on. Commercials are a nuisance to me I guess I was lucky enough to associate "commercial" with "boring, change it now" as a child.

Like I said, if you pay attention and focus on one thing, you'll find it anywhere and everywhere you look.

...and They Live is a kick ass movie. You also need a video playback device and a television to watch it (they got you by the balls w/ that one!), unless you pick up the horrible censored version on USA or something.

I'll read the rest of the thread later, but so far it's interesting if you ever wanna stike up a chat with someone about off the wall conspiracy theories.
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Last edited by Stompy; 11-09-2004 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 11-09-2004, 08:19 PM   #399 (permalink)
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The thread is intended to raise questions, issues, and as a method of inquiry. It's a long thread. It evolves and moves in a way that covers many of the points you raise. There's a dialog that includes both sides of each - to the extent that folks have found them interesting. It continues to include other aspects of cultural manipulation and our susceptibility to it, moves to others, and never does, I think, reach resolutions, solutions, or conclusions. Welcome to the thread. I think it has some value to a kind of ongoing investigation of ourselves and what it may mean to be what we are and what we may or may not wish to be.
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Old 11-09-2004, 09:53 PM   #400 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
The thread is intended to raise questions, issues, and as a method of inquiry. It's a long thread. It evolves and moves in a way that covers many of the points you raise. There's a dialog that includes both sides of each - to the extent that folks have found them interesting. It continues to include other aspects of cultural manipulation and our susceptibility to it, moves to others, and never does, I think, reach resolutions, solutions, or conclusions. Welcome to the thread. I think it has some value to a kind of ongoing investigation of ourselves and what it may mean to be what we are and what we may or may not wish to be.
well stated art, there doesn't seem to be any end to this discussion in any concrete conclusion. it is merely to raise awareness.

Stompy, MTV Networks spends lots of money on researching what's hot, what's not, and how things become hot. I know for a fact that they spend lots of money (I don't see the budgets, but I do know how much staff is in that department and I see the research that they purchase, collect, pore over, and make judgements.) The reason that they spend all this research money? So that the development money for shows pays the most. For every $1 MTV spends on producing a show they take in $2. I remember when I first came to the company and it was just 4 channels and then they launched TVLand. Ever since they they have had record profits as they continue to buy up and launch other channels. Today there are 18 cable channels in the US, and over 100+ countries. MTV is gearing up to open in China and in Africa.

Remember the old commercials "I want my MTV!"? Yes, that's clever marketing and brand building. There's not a single place on this planet that I can go to and tell someone where I work and them not say that at some point in time. That is the power of a brand.

You shared about AXE and not smelling like ass. You're very right, no one wants to smell like ass. But given the amount of competition when you look on the shelves for a deoderant product something has to differentiate itself, either commercial (AXE - sex, masculinity - Old Spice, feminity - secret,) cost, packaging color/shape.

Marlboro cigarettes used to be marketed to women. It was a poor seller. Once they found the cowboy theme, Marlboro has been one of the top sellers worldwide.

I do highly recommend checking out Merchants of Cool it's available to watch online. I'm just about to watch The Persuaders which I think will be equally eye opening.
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