great advice, thanks!

so will there ever be another lesson?
i actually think 10 is enough really.

also, to all those "nice" guys who dont think they need these lessons. they do.

they get you talking to the girl.. and when your ACTUALLY TALKING to the girl you like.. you can be yourself.

getting to that point is the hard part.

just read it all, and take from it the bits that work for you.

wow...it makes me sad that one of the most popular threads here is all about how to help guys get laid with zero respect for the women. I used to think that the average guy was after more then just sex, apparantly i'm wrong. Seriously most of you guys make me sick and as a women i'm horribly offended and dissapointed. I know you'll probably say that i am a hipocrite or that i'm "not aware" that i fall for these tricks on a daily basis....bullshit. All my boyfriends have been good friends of mine, i've been in two long term relationships, and hardly been single (except for a few months) since i was 16. I'm a virgin(by choice, i've had oppertunities...and no i'm not a prude, i keep my guys happy beleive me)....and yet my guys have stayed, and loved me for who i was....and no i've never been cheated on. For you guys who are the token "Cuddle Bitch" or "Friend Guy" don't think that you have no hope or that you are weak and will never get a girl. In fact, the reason girls are friends with you is because they respect you a lot more then the average guy. Maybe you need to think about what kind of girl you want before you take this advice. If all you want is sex....go ahead, screw your brains out, manipulate women, but if you ever, EVER want more then that, you sure as hell will not get it from a girl with any self respect who knows about your past. No wonder i hate 90% of men....well boys is more accurate. I figured someone needed to smack some sence into you guys. You sound like you are 12! Yes it is important to take care of your appearance, there are some useful tips to make your self more attractive and by all means i'm not disagreing with that. And i agree that you should have confidence. I only disagree when you start playing games with a girls heart, and manipulating them, and condem being with one girl or saying that thinking one girl is more special is stupid and "weak"...i think you guys are the ones who are weak.....and for people who condem obsessing over women you seem to spend a whole lot of time thinking about how to get one...or many to be more accurate. Maybe you should just live your life and see what happens, focus on you. I really hope that you guys meet someone who will change how you feel, and maybe MAYBE someday you'll grow up and realize what it's actually about....i really hope that is soon, for the girls sakes who are stupid enough to give their hearts to you.....and if you think i'm being a cold feminist...maybe you need to think about how you look....and it's not good.

Yeah, it is sad. The fact that thousands if not millions of guys are led on by dishonest women, and have have to resort to tactics like these to get girls. The fact that guides and sites like these are becoming hugely popular.

No different than women, except guys will always admit to wanting sex.

And women make us sick and dissapointed, that they haven't the faintest bit of honesty when it comes to dating. They want to lie about what they want out of a partner, and then expect us not to get mad when we find out?
Good for you. They probably became good friends after you started dating.

This is why so many guys are having a hard time. Because girls continually say this, even though evidence points to this being bullshit. You aren't helping guys by saying this, you are making it worse.

But respect does not equal sexual attraction. Respect does not equal dating material. See the point?

Bullshit. Guys will date girls who have had a hundred sexual partners, and even get married to them. Why wouldn't women do the same? Check the "how many notches are on your stick" thread. There are married guys there that have had dozens of partners.


No wonder I hate 95% of women. You perpetuate lies to men ( male friends are sexually attractive? Please. ), and then cry like a baby when men wisen up.

Yes. We are weak because we don't have to be attached to someone. We are weak because we can exist without a significant other. We are weak because we have our own lives, and our own identities, and don't need a significant other for such. :rolleyes:

That is the point, we are focusing on ourselves. This is an egocentric way to do things, but it is necessary to get women. Expecting people not to be egocentric is stupid.

What is "it's actually about"? Who are you to tell us what dating is about? You can't. We all are in it for something different. Just because getting laid is a theme of these articles, doesn't mean that it is of 100% importance to 100% of the readers.

A broken heart isn't the worst thing in the world. It is a condition caused by one person ... yourself.

I hope that isn't a comment about physical attributes. Yeah, we all look like a bunch of fuckin' misogynistic bastards on forums. Now, if any of us used forums to pick up chicks, we'd probably listen to you. However, since 'dating' usually occurs in the 'real world', you can make absolutely no observation as to how we act around 'real' girls.

The 'alpha males' of real life talk exactly like misogynists do on a message board, but not in the company of most females. And they still do ok with women.

hmmm... flamage...

I'd just like to point out that just reading this information here or on fastseduction.com won't make a guy an unbelievable sex god that can get any woman he wants at any time. (well unless you spent your whole life perfecting social interaction) They are just tools for developing social skills with the opposite sex for men- much like glamour, seventeen, or any other girl magazine has been doing for women for years. If a guy reads and applies this information, he can gain social skill that is so incredibly lacking in most guys. This means he has more confidence, more charm, and is more exciting than some average guy that just looks at girls and wishes they came over to him and did all the work. This isn't fake confidence, supported by flimsy gimmicks. This is very real, and it affects all other areas of social interaction. Whether a guy uses his new found freedom to screw chicks or find a meaningful, healthy relationship with another doesn't change the underlying skills he used to achieve his goals. Blaming the guy for being better than other guys is like whining that some people are too smart and should be stopped from learning so everyone else can feel better.

" Yeah, it is sad. The fact that thousands if not millions of guys are led on by dishonest women, and have have to resort to tactics like these to get girls. The fact that guides and sites like these are becoming hugely popular"

I agree...it is dissapointing that guys are led on by dishonest women, but are guys always honest about their intentions? do you tell every girl that you are after that you only want sex? I doubt you are that honest with them. Oh and what about the advice for someone in your group to hit on the "fat ugly girl" to distract her while someone else goes for the real target. Is this honest? are guys really always honest about their intentions?....no!

"No different than women, except guys will always admit to wanting sex."

Maybe it's different for you, but for me sex isn't the most important thing in a relationship...remember the thing about me being a virgin?

"And women make us sick and dissapointed, that they haven't the faintest bit of honesty when it comes to dating. They want to lie about what they want out of a partner, and then expect us not to get mad when we find out?"

I'm sure you have come in to contact with girls like that, and yes there are girls out there who are like that...but not all of us are, and that is what you should understand, we are not all manipulative bitches....i'm just trying to restore a little faith in women kind here...

"Good for you. They probably became good friends after you started dating."

not true....the first was a best friend of mine i met through another friend and it grew into something else....the second was friends with me while i was with the first guy and it later evolved into something more.

"This is why so many guys are having a hard time. Because girls continually say this, even though evidence points to this being bullshit. You aren't helping guys by saying this, you are making it worse."

The guy i am with now is the guy i turned to after my breakup with the first guy, i talked to him about all my problems and early on only thought of him as a friend (my understanding of what is known to you guys as a cuddle bitch) but as i realized how amazing he had been to me and how close we had gotten, i began to feel more for him and now we are together......i have to object to the notion that this happening is bulshit because it happened to me...

"But respect does not equal sexual attraction. Respect does not equal dating material. See the point?"

I'm attracted to some male friends, and read the above explanation...

"Bullshit. Guys will date girls who have had a hundred sexual partners, and even get married to them. Why wouldn't women do the same? Check the "how many notches are on your stick" thread. There are married guys there that have had dozens of partners. "

okay i'll give you this one, people change and partners are willing to forgive and forget...but this is more common for men....men usually don't care about how many sexual partners their girls have had nor do they want to know details...girls that i have talked to are not like this, we seem to want to know everything even though it might hurt us...and while we can still realize that you might have changed, we are still less trusting in general (i don't speak for every girl, but that is what i have noticed)

"No wonder I hate 95% of women. You perpetuate lies to men ( male friends are sexually attractive? Please. ), and then cry like a baby when men wisen up. "

I'm not lying...are you saying no attractive men have female friends? i don't see that being possible...

"Yes. We are weak because we don't have to be attached to someone. We are weak because we can exist without a significant other. We are weak because we have our own lives, and our own identities, and don't need a significant other for such."

That is a good thing, i wasn't insulting your ability to be your own person but why must you treat women like crap along the way? Why do you think all women are is sex objects? What is wrong with having a special connection with one girl? Are you saying every happily married person is weak because another person is a source of happiness? Is it really that wrong to share your life with someone? i don't think people who do that are weak at all...

"That is the point, we are focusing on ourselves. This is an egocentric way to do things, but it is necessary to get women. Expecting people not to be egocentric is stupid."

oh wait....now you need women?...i thought you just said you were fine living your own life? now i'm getting confused....hmm and i thought guys were always honest?

"A broken heart isn't the worst thing in the world. It is a condition caused by one person ... yourself."

no i disagree there too....i think the women you lure into loving you, screw her..and then leave will have her heart broken by you...

"I hope that isn't a comment about physical attributes."

no not at all....i can't see you remember? i mean you sound like jerks....i'm sorry you have no faith in the female gender but we are not all like this...that is what i was trying to say. And also you guys are not all innocent victims in this, and girls are not the ones who should be blamed for making you so bitter..it works both ways

you guys should take this to PM's.

I was going to let all of this pass until I read this and it struck a nerve with me. You keep saying that the people who use this information just see women as sex objects. But this is not true at all. The friends I got out with to look for girls all believe the same as I do; that you can have a special, deep connection with a girl that is completely genuine. And two days later you can have a completely different yet still just as deep and fufilling connection with another girl. I feel you are limited by your implied belief that you can only have this "special connection" that most call love with one person at a time. I also think Booradley was saying that some people feel they need to be in a relationship to be "complete", and that in a healthy relationship, both partners should be capable of being independant and complete but when they are together they are so much more. (well maybe it's just my vision of a healthy relationship)

I would take this to PM, but maybe this won't be brought up again if it is answered here.

What CosmoGirl doesn't realize is that many normal, well adjusted , nice men cannot get girlfriends without taking drastic tactics such as the ones outlined in this thread. She has either ignored the fact, or doesn't know any, or is in a state of denial. Most guys fitting the "nice, well adjusted, normal" stereotype are also "boring, unattractive, and shy" in the eyes of women. They have to become "exciting, outgoing, and confident" to get the women. That is what the 10 lessons are for, not for running a train on 314 random chicks in one week.

She only sees her point of view, the fact that she dates her friends, which she sees as attractive.

I, personally, am not attracted to any of my friends. I have female friends... that have the same interests as me, not because they have hot boobs. I have male friends because they have the same interests as me, not because I am attracted to them. I would bet the majority of people on earth are like me in this respect.

But, apparently, cosmogirl does pick friends of the opposite sex based on attractiveness. That's why she finds this so hard to believe. Most girls won't date their friends. Telling guys this just makes the problem worse, and these tutorials necessary.

These guys.. the nice, average looking, intelligent and socially clueless men will never get any girl in the world if they don't show some balls and a willingness not to be a pussy. No matter what they want the girl for. Sex, companionship, anything. Period. They in fact, try to befriend the girl first, as they think it is the right thing to do.

Using these techniques for dating... the person doesn't change, but the attitude towards dating does. They become a MAN, not a boy. They become interesting to women, no matter how they look. They become able to do what they want with women.

Cosmogirl, I really don't see why you have a problem with it. By using these tactics, more guys will come up to you and ask you out. There are plenty of women who would love to be asked out, but hang out around shy men too much.

"Most guys fitting the "nice, well adjusted, normal" stereotype are also "boring, unattractive, and shy" in the eyes of women"

I personally like guys like this, becasue they are not crazy, and i don't appriciate how you think i'm in denial because i feel differently. Maybe you are the one who can not repect an opinion that doesn't fit into your pessimistic closed minded view of the world.
I do not only see my point of view, as i have said repeaditly there are some girls who are exactly as you described, i am saying that there are some that are not as well. I am not attracted to all of my male friends, i have many that are not my type physically because that is not important when it comes to friends, i simply said that it is possible to be just friends with an attractive guy, and it is also possible to become more then friends with any one of your friends. Quite frankly i do not want guys like you, or guys that would post stuff like that, to ask me out...(and i would shoot them down in a heart beat if i beleived they would treat me like how you guys are suggesting), i avoid dating people like you for good reason! And by the way...you can be a nice guy without being a pussy...Maybe you've had no luck with girls being a nice guy and that is why you have turned out like this. You say you hate 95% of women...what about the other 5%? maybe there are girls out there who do not fit into how you think all women are...that is all i'm saying....maybe i'm part of that small group who is annoyed that all you guys think just because i don't have a dick that i'm a liar and cold hearted. I'm proud to be in this small group....every guy i have ever been close to has said that i am different then the average girl....i am impressed that there are guys on here with the courage to speak up against the "i only want sex attitude" and say that they don't completely agree with you.....what is wrong with a girl who has a different opinion?

enjoy your life sweetheart. date your good friends that are shy and boring, because you find those qualities attractive.

I wash my hands of this drama dame.

"With my current attitude towards women, I will never be able to have an emotionally rewarding relationship of any kind with any female, as my physical desires are much more than my emotional desires after 19 years(I'm 20 now) of no sex and no girlfriends, and I can only look at women as sex objects now, even if they do share common interests as me. And I fully well realize that if I go back to my old self I'll scare away the women I'm currently "using" ( this happened with my FWB )....Boo Radley post from an ealier page.

Since you admit to only seeing girls as sex objects and that you are using them i have the right to be upset on behalf of the female gender who is under-represented here.

" You keep saying that the people who use this information just see women as sex objects. But this is not true at all."-skier

see it obviosly is true for the guy i was talking to.

"enjoy your life sweetheart. date your good friends that are shy and boring, because you find those qualities attractive.
I wash my hands of this drama dame."-skier

Maybe you are just tired of reading it because you know i have a point, my boyfriends are not shy and boring at all, you are just bitter that they are nice guys who could get a girl which out being manipulative while you guys are a group of failures who could not. You are trying to silence me beacuse i am proof that your little solid plan isn't as solid as you are manipulating guys into beleiveing. And maybe, since you are posting on a thread that is for guys who fail getting girls you shouldn't be insulting my relationships.

Nice of you to dig up a year old post. I'm 21.

Time doesn't change anything at all, does it?

sorry about the old post i wasn't aware it was that long ago, but your actions and the fact that you are so defensive and bitter towards me seem to suggest it still applies to how you feel now...sorry if that is an incorrect assumption

Bitter I will admit to.

Defensive I'll admit to... when you say that your prescription for dating happiness is not the only one that exists. Until you start being a little bit more moderate with your viewpoint, I'll continue to be defensive. As long as you are saying " _______ will never be happy because he <verb> girls and <verb> girls, because I am a girl and I know" then I will keep disagreeing with you.

Women are attracted to men who are attractive, outgoing, fun, and interesting. Are these not words you would use to describe your boyfriends past and present cosmogirl?

Some guys are born naturally outgoing, fun, attractive, and interesting. Some are not, and need to work on it. Lots of guys can't get a date to save their lives. So instead of being totally lonley for the rest of their lives, they take it upon themselves to become some (or all) of the things that women want which are detailed in this thread.

These tips help guys become better and more happy people. And yeah, to get ahead in life you gotta squash some egos. You can't tell me you've never turned down a guy because he didn't meet your standards. That hurts you know. You yourself have probably hurt alot more people than you know. And guys aren't allowed to return the favor?

Last week you turned down all around nerd but good guy Tim. Tim's a real nice guy. But hes got no fashion sense, and he can't hold a conversation to save his life. NEXT.

But what if Tim had followed some of the tips on this site and made himself into a more attractive and interesting person? You'd go out with him in a second, and you'd be able to see the genuine niceness that he had inside all along.

He didn't change on the inside, but he changed his exterior and demeanor, and wow! Its a whole new ballgame for Tim.

What he did was change the cover of the book, not the contents. Thats what these tips are for. They don't tell you to change yourself, or the person you are. They tell you how to be more attractive to the opposite sex so you might actually get a chance to show them who you are. Sure, you fib and you fudge a bit, but no one can say that he or she has never lied or changed their opinion to look cool or to get acknoledged.

Why the king of pimps, plan9 himself, has stopped posting here. His last post was about how he had met a nice girl and it was getting serious. But how could a nice girl fall for such a dishonest fella? Well, its because maybe under all his ingenuity in getting the opposite sex to notice him (honest or not) hes a genuinely nice guy who just knows how to flip a ladies switches.

Despite what you may or may not belive cosmogirl, dating is a game. The object is to get noticed. These tips help guys get noticed. And as the old saying goes "All is fair in love and war", and both sides take their share of heartbreak.

Well that was going to be my conclusion, but another thought just occured to me. Both sides get rejected in the dating equation, but at different times. If a guy is a geek, he gets rejected by the girl right off the bat. Poor guy. If the guy is a player (like perhaps what this thread could technically teach you to be), he rejects the girl after the fact. Poor girl.

But if dating was like you wanted it to be, the losers would stay locked up in the basements while you got to pick and choose from all the eligible guys, who would then stick with you as long as you wanted them to. You would never get hurt (which is obviously a very appealing thought), but thats just not fair. If a girl can pick and choose from the guys, then a guy should be able to play a girl. The hurt can go both ways.

You know, unless you use these tips well and become an appealing person with a good personality with the ability to get girls, but to also be a genuine and warm person.

thebiz i completely agree with you, if guys learn how to be attractive, fun, and interesting that's great. It is also fair for women to be regected if say they were to ask a guy out. I just think it's a different situation if you lead them on by sleeping with them, or fooling around with them, etc. This is the only part i have a problem with. When a girl regects a guy as you described it is in the beginning, she nips it in the bud, while these tips often keep the girl around as long as possible to get what the guy wants, then the girl is blown off. And by that point, strong feelings are probably involved. It is definitly posible to argue that women do the same thing, and i'm sure they do, i personally am just more familiar with guy behavour in this situation. It's just unfourtunate that we are all so bitter and we play games and let it affect innocent people. You guys are not bad guys and i'm sorry if it came out that way, i beleive that under the surface you're nice guys...and the "nice guy" thing is what you are trying to avoid. But maybe instead of leading on all the girls you get with these tips you could be relativly honest with what you want from them and which you are actually interested in, intead of thinking about how many numbers you can score. I don't disagree with this whole thread, as i mentioned earlier. I just think that guys can get this success with women without breaking as many hearts, or being as manipulating. If this thread is working for you, and you are happy with your life then that is great. I just hope, under it all you don't hate women and this isn't some plan to get back at them for hurting you. I'm not trying to destroy this thread or say that it is all garbage, i'm just asking that you go about it with a little compassion even if you haven't gotten it in the past. It's a different girl this time, it's not the one that hurt you, so give her a fair chance.

Female: you are a loser if you can't get girls and you should stop using loser tactcics in order to get them.

Male: reality demonstrates otherwise.

Female: you are still a loser. I don't need no stinkin' reality.

Male: you are speaking in circles.

Female: you are still a loser. I know what I like and I go for it. (Now fuck me, biker-buddy with the tattoos! Fuck me HARD!) I like nice guys. You should let me lie to you because otherwise you'll be a loser, you loser.

-or-

Female: A.

Male: not A, because of 1 2 3.

Female: A.

Male: 1 2 and 3 make sense to me. But there's also 1a, and 2a 2b, and B.

Female: A.

Male: OK, one more time. 1 1a 2 2a 2b 3 B.

Female: A.

wow. you expressed my thoughts so well in so few words. great writing final_identity!

thebiz, I agree with you.

I've read all of plan9's post and most of the mentioned website, only to find alot of information about how to manipulate woman.

I will say, though, after thinking about alot of the stuff said I have adapted it in a non-manipulate way that works for me.

I'm now alot more confident around attractive women.

I think if you really want to fuck women you don't respect, look up a local call-girl service in your area. Most big cities have them. Its probably cheaper than cleaning up and hanging out at clubs, too.

Plan9........where art thou
I've finally finished reading the whole thread.

What helped me understand most was in the case studies - examples. MORE EXAMPLES IN real life situations

im very against screwing with women to get laid. but the advice was still very helpfull.

ive been using the eye contact thing and it works friggin sweet. i dont have to say anything...just lock eyes and they always smile and say hi. now i just need to work on my conversation skills.

bah old post but good advice.

Well boys, I followed some of the advice on this thread and I've got to say that it fucking works.

I went to a small party tonight that my friend was having to celebrate his engagement. I knew there would be girls there, so I shaved, put on some nice clothes, and walked up in that bitch like I owned it. I saw some girls there that I went to some dances in high school with (they were real bitches) and I could tell that they wanted me to say something to them. I didn't talk to them because they treated me like shit back in high school, but they definitely recognized my confidence and showed definite interest.

I'm not one to do the whole hump and dump routine, but just by acting like I was the Alpha, I know I could have scored some numbers, etc. I'm still learning the whole confidence thing, but I think I've got the basic ideas under my belt.

I feel like a new fucking man.

Thanks plan9.

The funny thing that women assume about this thread is that guys who use these techniques will automatically blow off the girl after he has slept with her.

That may be true about some of the guys in this thread, but I don't think it is for most guys. If a genuinely nice guy uses these tips and scores the number of a hottie, he probably won't hump her and then dump her. He's still a nice guy who cares about women. He hasn't changed anything except the way he presents himself.

Oh yeah, bump.

I'm a girl and I wasn't really offended by anything in this thread. A lot of it really just helps show men how to approach women, appear more confident and tells them to be clean and in shape to get girls. This isn't bad advice. In the end, it really does take a lot of work out of the guy and if he simply can't be funny, act cool, or is butt ugly, he's not going to be "scoring all the ladies". *shrug*

Some people who read this thread might blow off girls after sleeping with her.
Some people who don't read this thread do too.

Some people who read this thread will take the initiative and talk to girls they like after this and start a nice relationship.

Hey I'm new to the thread and don't know if its already been covered, but any advice on what to say to start a conversation with a random girl?
Most of the stuff I've skimmed through I already do, I just don't know how to meet new girls. I don't talk to new people in general. I'd like to, so any suggestions on how to start a conversation would be helpful.

bump for return of plan9

Ok,sorry guys. I have been away from TFP for a while because I severely broke my arm (Humerus bone). Sorry that I have not been able to return a bunch of your PMs, hopefully you will forgive meh ;). Anyhow, I am back now so give me a little bit to catch up on this thread and get acclimated to posting on the boards (and using the computer again for that matter). I will try and continue from where I left off.

I finally made it through this entire thread and it's been a pretty good read.

Most of what Plan9 is talking about has been covered in other books like "how to get anyone to fall in love with you" or websites like askmen.com in endless articles. I like your writing style though, so you really should think about expanding your ideas and making this into a guidebook. Something tells me you've got plenty to say about women and giving them pleasure, which is what it's really all about (at least for me).

The most interesting item in this thread isn't the pickup tips. It's the interplay between the user Averett and Plan9. She shows up to attack this guy and eventually "falls" for him in a virtual way after a huge fight. If you take the time to read through all the posts, there's a point where you can hear the pleasure in her words. I'd be curious to know if she was sending PM's and offering up a pic? hmmm...

I'm tempted to string her along myself if she'd only give me her number. Not that I'd call for a few days..

Okay, I don't usually use this but... LMAO! :lol:

Anyway, I don't think I "attacked" Plan9. I took issue with some of the things he said. And I still do to a certain extent.

As for me "falling" for him. No. I think it's pretty funny that you think I was oozing pleasure.

And did I send PM's and offer up a picture? No. There are pictures of me here on this site that any user could find if he or she so pleased. I took issue with him and did come out with my guns blazing. He said some nasty things, I said some nasty things back, and after a few PM's back and forth we came to an understanding. I understand where he's coming from with this thread and with his viewpoints, and I think he understands mine as well. I can't speak for him. I've got no problem with him at all. Never did really. We're "buddies" now, broke the same bone in our arms and everything ;)

And as far as you trying to string me along? Buddy, don't bother. You couldn't handle me. :icare:

so you're not interested in me, which of course means you are interested but playing hard to get.

This dating stuff really does work. Can we have sex now?

Well I just read this whole thread all last night and tonight.
I must say that it is some amazing stuff you know plan9, you are a god among men :thumbsup:
Well ive been a pretty lonley and depressed guy for most of my life, my only relationship was back when I was in 8th and 9th grade :\
But after reading up on everything, im going to try out your methods.
Im usually really shy and always screw up talking to girls or totally avoid them for fear of rejection, since I have almost no confidence.
But if I use the tactics you have listed, and work out and such, im sure I could get some girls.
Ill be sure to post back on if I was successful or not.

Heh, looked like an attack to me :D

This statement always cracks me up...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=141989

sorry, haven't read through all this yet, so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but yea the lessons here are the same ones from the bb forum, so you guys can read that too for extra insight

I'm glad you're spreading the word plan 9 I thought you might be saucehead from that other forum but your birthdays are different. The posting dates on the other forum are earlier than this one. you should acknowledge and give credit to the original author.

Revive and flourish old post

nice find ! plan9 what's the story

you sad sad man...just realised you copy and pasted from different authors and put it as your own...lol

The power of teasing = playing daddy cool = playing hard to get = works wonderous

and notice how he did mention that it came from another source, right on the first page?
Anyways, this guide's been fun, but i'm real close to having a gf
While these tactics have helped somewhat, in the end, you won't end up loving the girl if you are too literal with all of this
Thx for the good read though plan9

This has probably already been answered, but I've read my piece and am going no further.

Eye contact means that she's looking at you, and you are looking at her, making contact with her eyes (sounds stupid, but it's the simplest explanation). Staring is looking directly at any other part of her body for an extended period of time, or making eye contact, having her look away, and continuing with it so no matter when she looks at you, she meets your eyes. This obviously only applies if you don't know each other, or at least very well.

For me anyways, it's impossible to look away first (nearly anyways). If I make eye contact with someone I might be interested in, the interest makes me sub-consciously hold her "gaze" for a while. Unless she's very confident and isn't playing pretend shy-girl flirty games, the girl will normally break eye contact pretty quickly anyways. I say don't worry about it.

I think this thread should get a sticky though, just because it can be a helpful reminder. Like has been said though, don't take it too literally or seriously, because you'll end up being a sad 45 year-old "playa" who doesn't know when to quit. I think there's a point (and a certain mode age) where women stop giving a shit about the games he's talking about, and just want a guy to be genuine. When someone's been dating long enough, they're bound learn the other sex's tactics, or at least some of them.

A very interesting thread. I am from Scotland and I don't know if any of you know much about this country but the girls in it are probably not as nice as girls in other countries. There does seem to be an endless production line of bleached blondes with over-tanned faces and too much make up that drink waaaay to much, eat too much and smoke too much! A lot of which I do NOT find attractive. But we do have our share of hotties.

The biggest problem with girls in Scotland is that even if they are 4's, 5's or 6's they really believe themselves to be 9+, it is very irritating.

Anyhoo, I will be putting some of what I have read here into action. I think the advice here can be adapted for everyone whether you are looking for dates/sex/relationships etc. A date can turn into a relationship, if that's what you want.

The bottom line is to bring those qualities to the surface that work, the ones that some of you keep hidden. The witty lines, the ego etc. Be cheeky/cocky but don't be an @sshole, be confident but don't be ARROGANT, be a nice guy but don't be a doormat. Be funny just don't be a ****in' CLOWN! Most of all, be genuine. Women pick up on this, they read body language better than us. If you try to be fake, you will come across as fake, whether you realise it or not. Be natural, be confident and adapt plan9's advice to your own ends and it will work.

Being a nice guy/decent guy/polite guy/smart is not WRONG. Never think that. I used to make excuses like, girls don't like smart guys because they prefer to hang with guys that make them look better, girls these days prefer shorter guys because it makes them feel more empowered, girls aren't interested in me because *enter cliche here*. The thing is use what you have to your advantage, just don't broadcast it. If you are chatting to a girl, being C/F making her laugh and then leave at the height of conversation this WILL leave them feeling that they have to know ore about you. Mystery is good. Would people give a damn about the Bermuda triangle if they knew what the cause of all the weird stuff was? Of course not, it is a mystery and mystery intrigues people. Getting back to what I was saying though. If you lay the ground work and a woman finds you interesting and mysterious and like you and then she finds out that on top of all this you are NICE, GENUINE, POLITE, GENTLEMANLY etc, this will only make her like you more, providing she finds out a bit at a time. If however after spending time with her and you have no good qualities, you will get dumped.

So going back to what I said about dates/sex/relationships and how it all relates....
If you want sex only, the c/f thing will work becase she will find you interesting long enough for you to bang her and she doesn't have long enogh to find out you were only after one thing in the first place (not something I advocate by the way).

If you want dates only then the c/f thing will also work because girls love guys who make them laugh, are intersting, have confidence in themselves. However if you have no really good qualities even this tacic will get old and if she wants to take tings further and you don't then she will either dump you or you will leave and move on to the next date. Which leads me to...

Relationships. After the initial c/f work, the advice about not phoning too often, not too many compliments etc, and the two of you have got to know yourselves better, she can then find ut your finer qualities (if you have any) and then you can open up a bit more (notice I said a BIT more) and a relationship can develop because by that time you have shown yourself yo be an intersting, multi-faceted individula who is WORTH THE EFFORT.

So don't worry if you think all the advice in this thread is just about looking for a quick fling, it is all ADAPTABLE. Just don't use it to get laid and use girls because that is WRONG. Fine having casual sex if that is what both parties want, but I don't like guys who use the 'patter' (good Scottish word), to hump and dump some poor gir who doesn't have the brains to see through a guy's crap.

Women do really want protecion, they may not admit it but they do. Whether this is emotional, financial or physical. A woma nmay be with a guy because he is rich (financial), Musclebound (physical) or just a cool guy/nice guy/guy who keeps her entertained (emotional). At the end of the day we all want someone who makes us feel good, and in some cases (moreso in the case of women) safe.

So that was my $0.02.

Ahem... guys.. I wouldn't take this part too seriously. It's not true (a lot of women like guys w/ hair.. nothing wrong w/ that. It's natural) ;). The part about "the hot ones" ... haha .. sorry i had to laugh.

As far as everything else goes.. In lesson 1 (i haven't read 2 yet) I agree. Just take care of yourselves guys. :)

And as far as skin care products go, I know a lot of macho guys dont want to go get "girl" products but I recommend Este Lauder. It isn't cheap (unless you find an "as is" store.. they sell the facial wash for about $9) but it does a great job ! I also recommend Burgesse (sp) and that's even more expensive, but hey.. if you can afford it.. :thumbsup:

"Most guys fitting the "nice, well adjusted, normal" stereotype are also "boring, unattractive, and shy" in the eyes of women"

Bullshit.

Not if they're smart and stick around long enough to see how many licks it takes to get to their creamy center.

Okay....I read about one tenth of the CRAP in this thread....so I apologize in advance if this has been said before.

Women deserve respect, and for some little boy to decide deciet is the only means to sexual satisfaction is so very sad. When the Boys become Men, and understand that sex is a really cool byproduct of a healthy, respectful relationship....perhaps they will figure out how to make love, and give some level of pleasure back to the owner of the hole they so desire. For now...go ahead and dwell in your misguided feelings of superiority over the three minutes of vigor you likely manage to sustain. In time I hope you actually manage to grasp the usefullness of companionship, and perhaps even consider the feelings of someone other than yourself.

this thread should be compiled into a book and sold to earn income for TFP... if you can't get laid reading this stuff, there is no hope for you.

http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/

This takes a more compassionate and honest approach to similar ideas. Which I think is what some of you were looking for/are critical of

This was completely ripped from:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...9&page=1&pp=30

No shit buddy, he says that in the first post....

Plan9, are you David DeAngelo in disguise?

You know, this all seems horrendously complicated. All these dirty little tactics... tch, honestly... :p

Although, having been chased around a park by a nymphomaniac with tweezers intent on getting my evolving chest hair when I was 17 tends to leave scars towards the whole pick-up-girls thing :hmm: .... I kid you not.

I am the kind of person that will often lurk in a corner of clubs watching other people play the game. Having racked up a fair number of hours, I've come to two conclusions. 1) I will not meet the kind of person I'm looking for there and 2) beer soaked confidence makes for some incredibly stupid behaviour on both sides. That said, the comedy value is utterly priceless.

True. Although I know two friends who have got engaged and married after meeting each other at a night club. Although laws of probability reside.

Since we tfpers now have this huge resource for pick-ups and the gals have it to spot pick-up artist, I thought I'd add this site to everyone's bags of tricks.

Enjoy

http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/

I don't know about all that stuff about calculating how many times to call and whatever, but there are as many ways to get girls as there are girls in the world so I am sure it works in some cases.

I have been pretty successful with two ways of meeting girls. 1 is that I used to move about once every year or two years, and I always find someone on a *pay* roommate finder. Never a person I already know. And find a person who seems likeable or social, and seems to have a lot of friends. Plus you can get pointers from watching him. Then your friend group and his will meet and hopefully the circle will grow. Nowadays girls don't go out as much it seems, and mutual friends always seems to be a good technique. Strategy 2 involves working at a company with at least a hundred people, or in some kind of social interacting job. I enjoyed working at blockbuster a few years ago. You might be too close at work to date, but sometimes not, and you will meet plenty of people and they all know at least a few girls.

As far as what to talk about, I have never been good at preparing something to say or figuring out what a girl wants to hear. I just be honest with them and talk about whatever is going on and joke around a little. Keeping it light. The one lesson that I think is true enough for every man to at least consider is the "Up Periscope" theory. If a guy looks like he's "on the prowl" with his periscope up looking around, girls notice and have an aversion to that. I believe girls are more comfortable talking with a guy who feels that it's no big deal talking to her, and they're not just out trying to pick up chicks.

I think the bottom line is that girls are just like us - with similar fears, hopes, insecurities... But sometimes their beauty and our cravings make it seem like it's a bigger deal than it is. Treating girls like regular people has always worked.

Oh, and another thing I've learned is that it seems girls wish to be appreciated for what they have accomplished and what they do, rather than the fact that they happened to be born pretty. A compliment on their choices or their style goes further than just complimenting them on how pretty you think they are.

I would recommend relax, be yourself, and be considerate. Oh and take care of yourself. Go to Marshall's, get a nice shirt and iron the mothafucka. Not because women only go for clean hair and pressed shirts - but because everyone knows that if you care about yourself and your appearance, it shows that you can care for someone else.

If all else fails, work your ass off and make a lot of money. There are a lot of girls who like money. Girls don't chase Donald Trump because of his sexy haircut.

Write the book and make millions.

We are all good people deep inside, but like I have said before, a little game playing is necessary in keeping them hooked and interested.

Hey all, I am back after a long break from these boards. How are you all doing?

When I returned I noticed I had many unanswered PMs... sorry about that :(. Hopefully I will be more efficient about returning your questions. It has been a while since this thread was created and there is a lot of more information that I have acquired since starting it. I am looking forward to getting the time to share some more info with you all :)

haha, David D rocks. He has some very great workshops on Body Language that I recommend all of you checking out.

Confidence, Humor, and Intellect......but looking good helps quite a bit.

Quite a bit? Not necessarily true at all actually. Looking good is just gravy. Fortunately when it comes to getting women us men have a bonus in that it is possible for us to actually create attraction based on using confidence and skills you learn from people like me or anybody else that are knowledged with the game. I have many friends that I have trained that would be considered even below average in the looks department but they get more tail then the average person.

I have to say I find that this thread just promotes playing mind games--for both sexes, which isn't cool, fun, and does not lead to anything long-lasting or worthwhile. Sure, you might get laid, but I personally found when I was a "player" (and yes, females can do that), skipping the head games was more likely to get me a guy. And as a female, I hate guys who play games.

We're not in middle school, for crying out loud.

Tail...heh....havent heard that one in awhile. While I agree looking good is not a requirement to attract a woman....it is extremely handy in attracting Girls. But if the intent is simply to get "Tail", all the mind games listed above will come in quite handy. I suppose my "skills" in the game are simply....outdated and inadequate....woe is me.

tecoyah sits in a corner ...all lonely....and weeps to himself

This thread isn't exactly about finding "anything long-lasting or worthwhile."

Heres my tips for getting easy sex with easy typical girls (blonde,dumb, big titties)

1. Go back to Grade school, tease her a bit, make fun of her but in a playful manner.

2. Always be in charge. When you go out don't be indecisive, girls hate a man who doesn't know what he wants.

3. Don't act like the girl is TOO important to you. Act like shes just another girl on your list, even if she is the only girlk on your list. This is probably the hardest to do but practice makes perfect.

Have fun :thumbsup:

Ok I came back here after a long haitus and based on the few posters above me I can see that some of you do not care about being a man and are content on being a pussy. I was hoping to hear some more questions or situations I could help you with other then hear from these AFC douchebags that are content with their subpar dating lives. I will move back to my home.. just figured I would help my old home out but it seems there is no real men that still hang out here :p. Enjoy, take care, and goodbye :)

When I first read some of this thread I was of the 'mind games are wrong' blah blah be your self perspective.

Then I realized I'd be a hypocrite doing so.

I 'played the game' when I realized what most women want at the subconcious level. Long story short, they want confidence and strength (inner/outer, but strength). They want the alpha male, someone who seems perhaps even superior too them.

By being the nice guy, you are being the submissive one too, and most women I find want no part in that. They may say they are looking for a sensitive caring guy, but thats their brains talking not their gonads and we all know where logic goes when it comes to sex.

As such instead of letting a girl know I really liked her and was interested I'd act like it didn't matter, I'd be happy if she were there, but just as happy if she wasn't. She wouldn't know if I really wanted her or not, she would have to get MY attention, not the other way around.

Worked wonders, and I suddenly found myself with more dates then I knew what to do with. I figured it out, and we have been together for the last 14 years.

Glad that worked for you. It wouldn't have worked for me. My SO doesn't really enjoy feeling inferior. That's one of the things I love about her.

I already have a pet.

lol.

I think you missed the point entirely. It's not about being superior to the woman, it's about being your own man and not needing a woman/relationship to be "whole". Being perfectly happy standing on your own two feet.

Yes he did, and thats exactly my point.

You have given some great advise. I wish I had known of it years before. Still, if you are shy you make your own failure. You basically think you are interupting the girl who would rather do her own thing without you bothering her. Also, being intelligent is a detriment. I was always the top of my class but never had a girl. `

I was in a relationship for a long time, and when I got out of the relationship I used a couple things from this post to make life easier.

First of all, your natural charm will win over any girl that naturally matches you. You shouldn't change to match a girl that doesn't match you because in the end, you will revert to what you used to be. If you don't think that you will, or if you choose not to revert, you will become very tired of putting up a smoke screen. That being said, I don't think you should be a messy, ignorant slob. Being courteous and dressing for success works in personal life as well as business.

The one key area that I found people had a hard time with (those that I hung around with when I was single) was conversation. People just didn't know how to have a conversation with a girl and keep her interested. Sure, starting a conversation out of the blue may seem daunting, but if you can find a common topic with a girl (where you are, what you are looking at, etc.) then it's really actually quite easy to keep the girl interested.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, you must ASK QUESTIONS. It's really that simple... women love talking about themselves. Ask a question, get a reply. Now find a subject in what they replied to you about and ask a question about that. Keep going and you won't have any awkward spots during the night, AND she might even ask you some questions and show you that she is actually interested in you. Once you get passed that awkward stage (date 3 or so), you should be able to make a decision whether or not the girl fits your personality or not.

Oh, and it's not stupid to practice conversation skills. Ask a buddy of yours, or show him the method so you can practice on each other.

Remember:

1. Yes, you shouldn't look like a dufus, but be yourself. Don't go and buy chains or see through shirts if that's not your thing. You'll attract the wrong type of person if you are actually trying to find a relationship.
2. Ask questions about every answer to the previous question. This will string along the conversation so there are no awkward moments, and you'll appear charming because you are interested.
3. Gauge her interest level by the number of questions she asks. If she doesn't ask any questions of you, ask yourself if that's the type of person you want.

Easy as pie. Thanks to this thread.

Being intelligent isn't a detriment, because the ones upset by or threatened by intelligence are balanced out by the ones who are more interested because of it.

Oftentimes the most academically gifted are that way because they have combined natural intelligence with study time. When you have focused on grades, you lose time for things like social networking and learning social interaction skills. Those lack of skills lead you to make certain decisions about how you lead your life, and it becomes a self-fufilling prophecy.

Wow. I just started reading this thread... the OP's lessons are pretty time-tested and sound. Anyways, I thought I'd give some of the game-challenged guys a bit of help. This is an excerpt from an actual IM conversation between a sorority girl and myself, initiated by her (this is a bit later, after the "hi's" and what not) pulled straight from the log.

Me: high life always lifts me up
Girl: it's the champagne of beers
Me: yeah, good point
Girl: i kno
G: i'm pretty cool
M: yeah, ur okay sometimes
G: umm u kno i'm the shit
M: I believe I laid claim to that title long ago
M: like march 25, 1986
G: whatever
M: but you're welcome to use the title belt whenever I'm not
G: whatever ur gay
M: lol, u kno that's not true now
G: oh really
M: look, he was just a friend... haha
M: I guess you could be the shit too... doesn't bother me much
G: i'm the bomb.com
M: lol, now THAT's gay
M: but u can have that one... I won't stop u
G: lol
M: yeah... I'm done with my beer, so I think I'm gonna go to bed
G: ok
G: night night sweetie

This is a good example of playfully busting on the girl. Nothing offensive. Notice her "attack" on me, when she called me "gay." Little did she know that she gave me a chance to show how secure I was in my masculinity (which is a good topic I may discuss sometime). Also, notice that I ended the conversation, even though I probably didn't go to bed.

Pretty good. I like how you played it off cool and light when she called you gay. Most guys would probably be like: "What are you smoking. No way I'm not". Which is an ok response. Also Bad response: "What, do i look gay to you."

Okay, tecoyah, I just read this post... and it's a good segue into explaining what exactly I use these "tactics" for, and what everybody else should be using them for. So without further ado:

As tecoyah said, companionship is ultimately the goal here, and, yes, women most certainly deserve respect. However, in order to enter any kind of romantic relationship, both partners must find each other attractive. Men are initially (I mean within the first 5 minutes of knowing the person) attracted to women almost soley based on how good they look. Women are also attracted to looks, but it also takes heaps of attractive personality and confidence. Think of it this way: a somewhat attractive woman stands in a mall, asking random men who walk by if they would like to go out to dinner with them. Ninety-five percent would say yes (this was an actual study, I don't want to dig it up right now, but it's been done). Now, if an attractive man were to ask random women out, it would be far less of an occurrence to say yes. These pointers are good way to make yourself attractive so that you can "experiment" with as many people as possible, and therefore increasing your chances of finding someone who is suitable for companionship. This isn't deceit, it is just pointing out some very general things that most women find attractive, and how to go about fitting some of those things. Women, mostly (at least around the age when men hit their sex drives), are just pickier than men about sex partners. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is, and there IS scientific evidence to back that up. I would love nothing more than to have a steady relationship with a woman for the rest of my life, and I honestly try to go further into it than just a night of sex, but if it doesn't work, I can't make it. Again, I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

Note to the guys: don't be a dick, follow a few simple rules, or I will find you and kick your ass:

1) Don't ever try to force a woman to have sex with you.
2) If you have to resort to make her drink to excess to get in her pants, you're sad. I will probably still kick your ass for trying it.
3) If you have sex with a woman, and she gives you a number, or she contacts you, don't try to avoid her. Give her a call, it might be worth it.

Note to the women reading this thread:

Please, oh please don't fall for the "badass" that treats you like shit. I see it everyday, and women do it to themselves all the time. I know it's the guy being abusive, but with most guys it just takes breaking up with them or calling a chivalrous guy like myself to come kick his ass.

That's all for tonight.

this is prolly the greatest thread in the whole of tfp history. Plan8 is a legend, man

Well shitty... I was hoping to let you know that the stuff in here works phantastic but you're gone. To those reading still, this stuff works! Personally tested for quite some time now, and response is increasing with time. The ratings are going up too... used to only get 3-5's and now getting 7-9's!

BTW, you don't have to use this stuff just to sack a girl... this is pretty good stuff all around. You have to be able to keep any mate of a relationship interested in you if you expect for it to last any amount of time with happiness. Things like not being a wuss, having confidence, taking care of yourself, being able to talk to her and keep her stimulated (in all ways, but the talk is most important--when you're 80 there isn't much else left...).

So for all you guys AND gals out there that think this is a lame-o post by some guy trying to show other guys how to mind-screw women into getting into their panties, taste this one: there is very specific advice on how to get into a girls panties here, but applied correctly this stuff can get and keep a mate for the long haul (all except for the one-itis avoidance thing...).

Just a personal note to p9 if you still happen to glance in - thanks a lot for the advice bro. Lots of big changes have been happening thanks to your lessons. Peace.

Plan 9, huh?

God, Misfits fans and their lack of modesty.

(sees his own tattoo in a mirror)

(blink-blink)

Nevermind.

Ernest Hemmingway is rolling over in his grave. You might as well rename this thread "How to get a woman by becoming one". I'm pretty sure they give out the same advice in 17 magazine.

Twelve pages in this thread and that was the best you could come up with?

You read all twelve pages? Thats pretty pathetic...

One doesn't have to read every page to see how many pages there are total.

Well then, yeah, it was the best I could come up with. And after 12 pages the best you could do was criticize it. Sort of puts us in the same boat, huh?

Pretty much.

I skimmed through most of the pages myself. Great thread. I'm printing some of this out.
It will make handy notes for my mother/daughter talks...the ones when I explain the types of men to avoid and the things they will do to play games with her. :D

Yeah... getting in touch with my haircare products is unlikely to advance the status of the cobwebs on my wang.

I thought people were just born with game. I didn't know you could learn it.

Anything can be learned. I'm not sure if Plan9 was the best mentor for this, since he's an ass, but here's something to get you started:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/

And when you're ready for something a bit more advanced, try the link below:

http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/

agreed

I read through the http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/ and found it sleazy. In fact, most of this is sleazy. Everything these "Getting Girls Into Bed/Conversation/Phone numbers" is pantomime to a sad form of mental rape and outright trickery on the part of the poor slob that can't really hold a decent conversation or be interesting on his own.

Reminds me of the Will Ferrell charcter in Wedding Crashers that picks up women at funerals.

You want advice on how to pick up women to sleep with? Then you don't deserve a woman to pick up, you deserve a disease that you will get from any woman that falls for any of this pseudobabble bullshit, because she has fallen for it many, many, many times in the past. Sound harsh? Sorry, but it's true.

I feel the same way about the books, articles and how-tos about how to marry a rich husband. Maybe the people reading these books will meet each other and leave the rest of us alone to stumble around words and be polite and devlope true feelings for one another while they are off playing mind games and trying to trick each other into the sack or into the other's bank account.

/rant off

True, most of this stuff is sleazy, and Plan9 is a complete ass, but there are some useful nuggets in there. For one, Plan9 says that you should practice your game on everyone. Although what ´game´ is, is up for debate, it´s generally good advice that if you want to be more socialable, than you should talk to everyone you meet.

And personally, I have my shy moments, and am at a complete loss as to what to say. So one thing that I pulled from the Seduction Guide was the question, So what´s your story? I´ve made my own version of that, by asking something that´s revelent to what they do for a living. So if she´s working at a Starbucks, I´ll say in a sarcastic tone, So what´s your story? Are you going to open your own coffee shop someday?

Personally, I enjoyed the Sex Tips for Geeks much more:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/

Omigosh that's funny. You asked me the exact same thing the first time I met you in chat.

A sarcastic tone here might make me think you were belittling me, my choice of job, or how well I do my job. Asking this while smiling, after complimenting how efficient they are or how well they made your mocha, is more likely to get you a smile back.

Mystery on Conan
 

Here's a better mentor, a guy that goes by the stage, Mystery, and here's a clip from his apperance in the Conan O'Brian Show. I read his e-book, some good stuff in there. Such as how to approach a group of gals at a party and such.

Enjoy

Honestly, I would say that I am pretty average on this whole woman thing. I get pussy, but not a ton. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get alot more but something is missing with me that I can't put my finger on. For example, I have a friend that is missing a few pistons but gets tons of pussy. I wonder if it is because he is decent looking or he just knows how to play the game. I met a girl recently and she seems interested. My problem is that I tend to get to into it or shall i say "desperate" or giving off that Aura. I mean Im fairly good looking and very intelligent but there is just something missing with me and women. I think its the confidence. The whole wussie deal. I tend to be a very kind person with women. Its gotten me a few real hotties but Im tired of just having a few.

Hah! This takes me back. I looked up to Plan9 when that post first came out.

yeah, this thread made me vomit a little in the back of my throat.

'tis all bullshit!

be yourself and dont be shy! you will have no problems with the booty, trust me.

(the nickname "master of disaster" sounds bad...but its so not.)

I might have trusted you before you said that.

haha.

alrighty then.

Read a chunk of this thread, Plan9 was discussing a lot of what has become fundamental PUA material. So in some ways he was ahead of the curve.

Many people on this thread have stated the best strategy is to just be yourself and not play games. Unfortunately doing this yields the result of you being put in the "let's just be friends" category. However if you introduce playful teasing, and a bit of jealously, the results are much different.

I know because I have tried both ways.

plan 9 is really disecting this game and is " ON POINT" he reminds me of tom leykis on how to get girls but gald there is a post for this type of stuff some very interesting stuff