billege

Clipped from original text, found here.

The original article is your generic, “abstinent kids start college groups, whine about how kids who do have sex are immoral, whine about stigmatism, then ramble on about pledges and rings, while the article throws random fact or two about sex ed in the US while randomly not making any real point” type of article. I figure we’ve all read that article at least once, and it’s been posted here too, at least once. I just had to pick out the two parts that:
1) Creeped me out.
2) I had to call BS on.

The “creepy” part for me is the girl wearing a “purity ring,” which recognizes her hole has not been penetrated by an evil penis before marriage. Her daddy gave her the ring, and apparently will give the ring to her husband after marriage.

That whole concept to me is creepy, because it’s this odd acknowledgement that Dad somehow owns her virginity, and “gives” it to her husband. The symbolism is all there, and it’s nothing more than a ritualized property transfer. When Dad is giving a ring (symbolizing a hole) to your husband who now gets your ring (hole) that’s just….creepy.

I’m calling BS on her fantasy that her first time sex is going to “freaking rock.” Ha, ha ha. No.

For me anyway, sex is like any other skill. You have to practice it, pay attention to mistakes, make improvements, practice more (hehe), improve technique, listen to your partner, and share the experience. Sexual n00bs are not going to “freaking rock,” but they are going to have a really unique first time. I call it unique, because I’m thinking when you’ve spent your entire adolescent and young adult life focusing on sex as a concept, but not really knowing a whole lot about it, the actual experience is going to be a shocker. Since sex-ed isn’t really high on the ole abstinence crowd’s list of things to do, I can’t imagine the blind-leading-the-blind have hot sex the first, fifth, or even tenth time out.

Well. Okay, anyone having sex for the first times may not have "great" sex, but man, wouldn't it just be awful to find out that the person you married is totally different in preferences than you? That's more my point. If you have no clue what you like, and they have no clue what they like, there's a great upside, and a great downside.

The upside: you both get to explore each other from a completely ignorant (unbiased) perspective.
The downside: neither of you have any clue, and may find out real fast you like totally different things. That might be tough to resolve given you've said "I do." NO TAKE BACKS!!!

I’m also really curious, is there anyone out there who did have a delayed sex until marriage experiance, or situation like that, and would be willing to share? I’m so curious how it works out, compared to us “normal” “sluts” who had sex before marriage.

I know my first time was a whole “This is it? Really?” type of thing. It certainly got better, and I’m glad I had the experiences I’ve had. I mean, they make me who I am, and I’m not ashamed of that.

I love the idea of shared intimacy that the abstinence before marriage (ABM) crowd focuses on, I’ll give them that. It is important, to me, to have sex with someone you really care about. On the other hand, cheap sex with a fellow horney human, is not a bad thing either.

The human experience is just so varied and exciting, and inherently good, I have issues demonizing behavior pre-“insert hang-up here.” The question that always comes to my mind when I hear the ABM creed is “What miracle is marriage that it just makes anything that happens after it okay?”

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

lurkette

Um, that purity ring thing is really squicky. Why not just slap on a chastity belt instead?

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

raincity

What aggravates me about groups like this is that they are flaunting their abstinence like it makes them superior in some way, like sex somehow degrades one's humanity. If you really want to abstain from sex, why not just do it and stop announcing it to everyone else? I respect people who want to wait until marriage, but I don't recall ever seeing a "I just got laid 10 minutes ago" support group on campus.

__________________
I panic at the quiet times.

hambone

I am one of those who waited for marriage for sex. I honestly wouldn't have changed a thing.

To say that my wife and I were completely ignorant going into is completely wrong though. We talked about it a lot before our wedding day. Believe it or not, you can ascertain another person's preferences and aversions through intimate conversation and through non explicit sexual contact (i.e. kissing, hugging, etc).

I went into my marriage with my eyes wide open. It is true that I did not know the physical sensations of being inside a woman, but that does not mean I didn't have a good ballpark idea. I knew the sort of things that turned her on, I know what turns me on. I knew her sex drive, I knew mine.

I also knew it wouldn't 'freakin' rock' in the sense that it would feel as good as fantasy ideas hint at. We both understood it would be uncomfortable, she knew it would hurt her, I had to prepare myself that I would not be an instant Sex God and that it would take time.

It is a wise statement that it takes practice, experience matters, patience is required. However, we chose to do our practicing together, to proudly be able to say that we have only ever been with each other.

Do I know if I am "good" at sex? No. And I really don't care. My wife thinks I am amazing and I think the same thing of her. We have been married for a short time and have already had a lot of different seasons involving our sex life. It has been hard, and it has been awesome at the same time.

On our honeymoon, we never had what we now consider "great sex". The whole two weeks, looking back, was pathetic in our abilities to really enjoy each other. But at the time is was everything we wanted it to be. We can look back on that and know that we have progressed so much and have proof that it is not an issue of the partner being poor, since we are the same people. We have just learned what the other one likes and dislikes.

I guess what I mean to say is, it has been perfect. Communication with each other was our key to success (and still is). If couple's decide to go this route, they need to talk. We knew what we were getting into. Intimacy is SO much more than intercourse, though you will NEVER hear me saying sex is not important in that regard.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

hambone

For the record, I have problems with groups like the one referenced though. It's a personal choice. Whether for religious, moral, or just plain because reasons, its personal.

Boasting about sexual conquests, or lack thereof, is all the same. Tasteless.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

snowy

Oh my goodness. Yes, going from being Daddy's property to hubby's property is going to "freaking rock." Pfft. That's exactly what I see going on here.

I have no problem with abstinence; I waited to have sex until I was 19 and ready to make the choice. I have a problem with people not making their own sexual decisions, which is clearly what's going on in the quoted case. She's not taking control of her own sexuality; she's letting Daddy and Hubby do it for her.

Furthermore, the first time I had sex it hurt like hell and I didn't want to do it again for a few days. As I see it, that would be a waste of a damn good honeymoon.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Seeker

I think it's all about personal choice. I don't necessarily agree with what they are doing and how they are doing it, but I don't think the "purity ring" thing is such a creepy concept.

I can see it as an expression of their moral position, and purely something that other like minded people can pick up on if they too know what the ring symbolises. That in itself is not a bad or creepy concept. What should not occur is the fact that some may use it as a sign of being better than those who don't share the same moral choice... and that is an error that is made all too often, isn't it.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

Coppertop

You've never heard of fraternities? Curious.

serlindsipity

Hey, no making stereotypes please. That just lowers you down to their level. Learn before you assume. Don't let one bad apple spoil your sense of fairness.


Anyone else wonder why we cant just keep our sex lives in the bedroom and just all agree to keep our mouths closed and thus negate any need for judgement, stereotyping, and discrimination?

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My third eye is my camera's lens.

katie_ann1031

I want the first time I make love to my husband to be passionate and erotic not uncomfortable and odd like the first time is. Sorry, I'm glad I didn't save anything for marriage. It's the type of situation I want to go into with experience, and I sure as hell hope he's got some experience.

billege

Hey hambone...

Thanks a whole lot for sharing that!

It is wonderful to hear how much you and your wife love and enjoy each other.

Thanks so much for sharing your experiance with us.

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

MSD

It's kind of like straightedge kids who feel the need to draw a big X on each hand (or sXe in normal life and hXc when seeing straightedge/hardcore bands,) wave them in our faces, and shout slogns at the rest of us. Every time I see one of them acting like a jackass to non-straightedge people, I want to get up on stage right over them and pour beer down my dick onto his head.

If you just want to have a mark so you can find other people in your group to hang out with that's fine, but don't shove it in my face, and get the fuck out of my mosh pit. Moshing doesn't involve moving your arms for anything other than providing padding, breaking you fall if you get knocked over, or helping someone up when they fall (it is unacceptable to let your fellow man or woman lie on the floor where they can be seriously hurt. If they can't get up, the crowd will either form a circle around them until they can or carry them to safety.. It'e not as burtal and uncivilized as it looks at first.)

skinnymofo

whose to say some of these kids do that so their parents arent suspicious?
if my parents were strict about sex and stuff when i was younger and i knew i could get it (the ring and sex that is) i wouldve worn the stupid ring and went about my way. But maybe im just some untrustable immoral wackjob.
but more on topic, i dont agree with anyone who flaunts anything, whether someone is going look at me im gay or look at me i wont have sex until im married or various other things of the like. keep that crap to yourselves cause your not getting a pat on the back from me for being different and making sure everyone knows it

yabobo

hambone...by making the choice early in life and sticking to it
you've been able to share everything with just one special person.
Everything you do is new and you bond togeather closer and closer
everyday. It must be the greatest high you can have.
With my wife of 23 years there is nothing ...nor has there ever been... anything
new that we shared with just us.
In a way I am jealous of those that chose that life style....

If they flaunt their abstinence with a ...your going hell attitude.. and I'm not
I'll do my best to turn you into a whore and tell everyone including your mother!

__________________
Why do they sterilize the needle for lethal injections?
Only in America......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.

SERPENT7

The thing w/ the ring is, well there are several things going on here.
1) Modern Western religions like to control as much of thier followers lives as possible.
2) Sexual guilt is one of the most effective ways to go about #1 there is.
3) The companies that sell the rings (they do 'morality presentations' in HS and then sell these distinct no-sex symbols.) are all owned by conservatives, church groups and closet repliclowns. (They are essentially capitolizing off of a movement they started.)
4) The fact that the rings are so visually distinct and therefore easily recognizable means that peer-pressure can be brought to bare on anyone that is not wearing one. ('look at her, no ring = slut.')
5) It encourages hypocracy.
6) It has been statisticly shown that 'abstinence' programs delay loss of virginity by 18 months. That doesn't seem like much, but it is when you consider that it is the difference between 17 and 19!
7) Acording to the same study 'abstinence only' programs have an identicle teen pregnancy rate as compared to sex educated populations, and a slightly higher incidence of VD. (The thinking is that while there might be less sex, there is NO birth control, so the few that are sexxxxing are getting preggo/VD at a disproportionate rate.)
also, i agree that it is skazzy and wierd for a dad to be (symbolicly) giving control of his daughters sexuality to her husband. But, this ring thing came out of the promise-keepers movement, which imo is nothing more than a way to rationalize god sponsored patriarchy. (Don't even get me started about 'Dynamic Marriage'!)

hambone

Thanks. I just wanted it to be clear that you can know full well about sexual compatibility without the actual act of sex. I like having all my experience with my wife. Its a great feeling to me.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

abaya

Hambone, I totally and fully respect your story. I think that for people who wait, your experience is the best that one could hope for. I have many friends (from my evangelical days) who made the same choice as you, and for most of them I am confident that they don't regret anything. I myself planned to be one of those people, but I chose to not be in that group after a certain point. I have no regrets about my choice, but as I said, I respect people who do choose to wait.

The funny thing is, for my bf and I, we're pretty much had all our experience with each other, too... without being married. And if we end up getting married, I have a feeling we'll feel quite similar to you and your wife. Neither of us wishes we had been with other people, or that we "missed out." We are happy with our "limited" experience... although, I'd be hard-pressed to say that we are that limited, given how much sex (and pretty damn experimental sex, at that) we have on a regular basis!!

EDIT: I forgot to address the OP! So basically, I have no issue with "purity rings," seeing as I used to have one in my young and idealistic days. My only problem is when it's worn as more than just a personal reminder; as in, when it is used as a "witnessing" tool by evangelicals. (E.g. someone asks, nice ring! and the girl says, "yeah, it's my purity ring, I'm waiting till marriage." To me, that is just arrogant as hell. Why the need to share?) Anyway, I also found it very weird about the whole father-and-ring thing... I have NEVER heard of that, with anyone I know who espoused purity and waiting for marriage. That is just damn weird, and yes, patriarchal.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

PennyPureheart

My 55 year old parents just got back from a evangelical marriage retreat where they were given Altoids as a party favor along with a book on improving your sex life. My mother, giggling like a 12 year old, asked if I knew what the Altoids were for... hard to believe this is the same mother who told me masturbation was a sin when I was a kid. (Only she didn't use the word "masturbation"... she called it my "dirty thing").

What has happened to Protestantism? Evangelicals have been doing everything they can to shed the image of being uptight and boring. They have thrown out the hymns and long sermons... they dance, have rock music in their services, and now even lay claim to having the secret to sexual pleasure (waiting until marriage.. and now 55 year olds evangelicals are spicing up their marriages to help sustain the myth). They are now INTENSE... ON FIRE...

Of course, it's all just marketing spin. Rebranded rituals and symbols have been carefully designed replace the traditional ones Americans rejected back in the 1960s.

Personally, though I rejected Christianity at 22, I didn't have sex until I was 26 but it brought to an end to a decade of depression which I largely blame on sexual frustration. My only wish was that I hadn't believed the lies and had experimented sexually a lot sooner.

Suave

That's because society in general puts so much pressure on people to have sex. Especially around highschool age, guys who have sex get a social "boost", and are looked at as "superior". Then after highschool, guys who don't have sex are considered "inferior" by a lot of people. These abstinence people are just doing the opposite, and you're mad because you aren't used to noticing this trend.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

analog

Firstly, I'm positive the fraternities comment was made in jest. Speaking of assuming and fairness, how about we find out someone is seriously stereotyping someone before assuming they are and being unfairly critical?

Because that's pretty much the most unhealthy and closed-minded way to attempt to solve anything.

hambone

That is awesome. It bugs me when people tell me I am "missing out" by being with just one person. If people really feel limited by just having one person, implement some roleplaying or something of that sort. Its like a whole new experience, but you still know its the person you love.

Ok, sorry for getting off track, just wanted to say that was cool

carry on.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

Hektore

Thank you analog.

Saying sex is something that is only for the bedroom and not something to be talked about is a judgement about sex in itself.

Sex is an important part of all societies and especially so in ours, why not talk about it? We can maturely talk about any other number of issues, and respectfully disagree without digressing to name calling and stereotyping, judgement and discrimination, sex should be no different. The problem is sex starts becoming a major issue during adolescence; a time not defined by maturity, but by judgement, stereotyping and discrimination.

The fact that sex is not talked about does nothing to help this. As long as sex as viewed as a taboo groups like this will flourish, not that there is anything wrong with that, but when there is no counterbalancing force it can lead to a very distorted view of sex. Sex is vilified preventing it from being viewed as something healthy and enjoyable when treated in a responsible way.

Until someone steps up and says to these kids "Look, responsible sex is a viable alternative that doesn't inherently have all these negative stereotypes associated with it" adolescents will not be able to get the full picture or be able to make an honest judgement about what is right for themselves. Which in turn leads to the stereotyping and immature views on sex. Simply talking about sex doesn't cause the problem, talking about sex from only one side of the issue causes problems. Nobody wants to do try to fix it however because premarital sex has been so ingrained into our society as evil that anyone who does is immediately labeled and slandered, which does absolutely nothing to change it.

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Suave

Hektore, anyone who does NOT partake in premarital sex is slandered. Not the other way around.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato