maleficent

WNBA MVP Swoopes opens up about lesbianism

She's got a point that no one talks about gays playing in mens sports, but in women's sports, is it assumed that the majority of players are gay (I've taken my niece to a few WNBA games, and the games we went to, the majority of the fan base seemed to be gay women and pre-teen girls.

Should a players sexual preference have anything to do with their standing as a role model?

__________________

Poppinjay

It should in the appropriate way. I don't seriously think a teenage hoopster will look at her and think, "I should be a lesbian!" However, if a young woman is starting to realize she IS a lesbian, I think it will helpful that she can look at Swoopes as a role model. And if she's het, she can look at her ball skills and her decency and care for her SO.

Homosexuality will always be a minority orientation and therefore something different. It's about time there were role models, like we've had for other minority groups.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

maleficent

I'd be willing to bet that this story fades away pretty quickly, but if it were some male player of Swoope's caliber (and I can't think of any male basketball player names) then this would be headline news. I'd be curious to see the reaction...

That's an interesting statement from her...

__________________

radioguy

why does it have to be such a big deal? she's an awesome basketball player, nothing changes if she's gay. i don't care if she's gay and i don't see why others will or why the media has made such a big deal out of this. it blows my mind the media attention (online, espn) that this is given. i would think that the more attention that's given to something, the bigger deal it is and i don't see how this is a big deal.

theguyondacouch

I couldn't have said it better myself. All the media coverage only furthers the belief that homosexuals are different than the rest of us. That's not to say that I believe it should be pushed into a dark corner, I don't. I just don't see the big deal, she's gay, so what?

__________________
"Lick my frozen metal ass!"

SERPENT7

Radioguy,
"why does it have to be such a big deal?... i don't care if she's gay and i don't see why others will or why the media has made such a big deal out of this. "

We as americans are very sexually repressed. Atleast she is not getting shunned. Remember GReg Luganus? (Or however you spell it.) He won a gold medal for diving, and as soon as he told people he was gay, his postage stamp got cancelled, and his wheaties box promo disappeared. So, maybe we have loosened up.

World's King

Wow...

It's an entire league of lesbians... why is this news?

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Pip

Agreed. It's starting to get weird, how there are so very few openly gay male pro athletes. Even the army (here, at least) is more open-minded about homosexuality than the soccer and hockey people. There is a disgusting chauvinist culture in the (male) pro team sports, and little boys and girls are sucking it up.
It doesn't matter if your dad is rich or poor or what the colour of your skin is or if you're a man or a woman or if you suck at math, if you are a great athlete the entire nation (or even the world!) will love you. Why then should your sexual orientation matter? As it is now, apparently it does.

albania

I don't know i never thought of it, i guess there have to gay male professional players in the US, but i didn't really think about it. It's probably because i am used to thinking of male gays as effeminate people, and thinking about athletes as anything but. Weird, i don't think it matters but i also think i wouldn't want to know if an athlete was gay or not. Athletes should just focus on playing, i don't really want to know about their personal lives.

Marvelous Marv

I think the situation with Louganis had more to do with the fact that he had AIDS. And didn't tell the doctor who stitched him up to put on a pair of gloves.

Then there was his history--By the time he was 12, he was doing speed, selling marijuana at school and even attempting suicide. In 1976, after feeling that he failed in Montreal, he turned to alcohol and cigarettes.

Toss his tales of gay spousal abuse into the mix, and he's not exactly a front-runner to be the idol of America's youth.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

martinguerre

Yeah, and they were probably still going to give him the Wheaties box until the gay stuff came out.

Fuckin' America, i guess.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

Ustwo

Yea it was so hard to tell he was gay, he didn't have any of the stereotypical mannerisms. I still cheered for him though, in fact I won't forget his performance, he was amazing.


Now for the op and article...

Thats just shocking that a lesbians would be perceived as commonly being into a traditional mens sport. It doesn’t take a biologist to figure out that perhaps the same reasons why they like to have sex with other women is why they like to play mens sports and play very competitively, like, say, a man would.

Of COURSE it should. Being a role model goes beyond being good at one thing, its how one lives ones life beyond the sport. I'm sure she could be a role model for young, in the closet, lesbians, and she IS suited for that, but how she lives her life would not be a good role model for Sara Hetero. To me a roll model is someone you wish to emulate and be like, and sexual preference is a big part of that.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Marvelous Marv

Well, other than a few sweaty fantasies that news article conjured up in me (I think she looks hot, and you KNOW she's got long legs) the announcement was kind of a yawner for me.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Marvelous Marv

You mean there might be gay women in OTHER sports, like tennis?

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

abaya

I don't get your logic here, man... you are making an assumption that female athletes are somehow more man-like, and therefore are more expected to be lesbians b/c they are tomboys?... that's like saying that we shouldn't expect any gays to play sports because they are "inherently" more feminine and thus non-sporty. That's lame-ass logic, rather closed-minded if you ask me. Your sexual orientation has nothing to do with your talent and desire to play sports.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Gilda

For the most part, not much. Nor, I would add, should her being a top notch athlete have much to do with it. That should be dependant upon other behaviors, few of which have much to do with her orientation or athletic ability.

While I agree that her being open about her sexuality does give young closeted lesbians the message that there's nothing wrong with being homosexual, and likewise sends that same message to the young straight girls who might otherwise have negative feelings towards their gay peers,that doesn't mean that this is the only way in which Swoopes could be a good role model. The hard work that she puts into developing her talent, whether she gives something back to society in exchange for what it's given her, whether she's a good mother, and a myriad of other factors are applicable to the degree to which she should be seen as a role model, and most of that has little to nothing to do with her orientation.

Gilda

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

irateplatypus

as someone who has spent every one of my 23 years in close-proximity to female collegiate athletes... lesbians in such places are much more common than you're likely to suppose.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

highthief

Yup, knowing a number of top level female hockey players and golfers, there is a big lesbian contingent in female sports that does appear to be higher than the general population. This is no big deal, other than I can't think off the top of too many black lesbian athletes who are out.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

martinguerre

ustwo actually pointed something out. i should never let me future children have role models that are married. my children might be drawn to start having sex too early because their role models are, and children copy all aspects of a role model's life.

yeah.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

Blackthorn

I agree with you. If this story was about Steve Nash then it would linger and linger and linger. There would be jokes and pot shots taken on late night TV and all of the ugliness that comes from that sort of a stigma would follow him as long as he played the game and then some.

As it is this is really not news except that Cheryl Swoopes chose to make it a story. It deserves to quickly become background noise.

__________________
What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

Marvelous Marv

Tell me again why married people start having sex too early?

For that matter, tell me again about your plan to have kids.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

martinguerre

Hunh?

My point is that it's absurd to believe that role models are utterly influential, it's copout for poor parenting to frame or moderate that influence. Your point is?

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

analog

The "role model" position is about sending the right message- in this case, it's that you should be comfortable with who you are, that we're all different, and that uniqueness collectively make us better, which has nothing whatsoever to do with hetero- or homosexuality.

Are you trying to say she'll turn "Sara Hetero" gay just because she looks up to her as a good, positive influence?

[sarcasm]
Oh my God, a lesbian role model! The race will die out from an entire generation of straight girls turned queer by the lesbian basketball player! Lock up your sons, too! We don't want education and tolerance getting to them, either!
[/sarcasm]

pan6467

I really do not understand this fascination and overzealousness the public (or rather perhaps just the media) has with WTF adult men and women do behind their bedroom doors or in the privacy of their living quarters.

I do not personally give a damn what anyone does in that privacy, it is NOT my job to judge anyone's moral life. Nor is it anyone's to judge mine. If you feel the need to GO FUCK YOURSELF..... sorry but it's bullshit to have people say, "She's a lesbian.... it's wrong I tell you, wrong."

Hey Zeus Freaking Crisps, if 2 people fall in love and are happy with each other that is better than a hell of a lot of marriages I know of (and according to divorce rates about 50% of them, if I recall the last stat rightly). People spend lifetimes trying to find the right person, and you are going to tell them if they choose someone of the same sex that makes them happy and truly in love with each other, that there is something wrong with them? STFU you prejudiced asswipe and judge yourself. Maybe they are in a happier relationship than you, ever think about that? Maybe you're prejudiced because they found that true love, happiness and acceptance in a relationship you haven't.

As for this woman being a "role model". It's up to the parents to teach their children values, not some public figure and if you have to rely on public figures to teach your children anything.... then maybe you should figure out why YOU CAN'T.

When I was a kid, I looked up to my parents and when I was a teen I looked up to people like James Dean (bisexual, drug addict, alcoholic), F. Scott Fitzgerald (alcoholic, had a crazy wife and was rumored to have had some bisexual flings, one with Ernest Hemingway, for example), Humphrey Bogart (married I believe 4 times, alcoholic), Jerry Lewis (control freak, drug addict), John Lennon (drug addict), and so on.

Now, I never really got into drugs, was a weekend alcoholic (as were most of my friends in high school) and I admired whom I admired for their professional lives, I did not give a damn about their personal life, in most aspects, but I did learn from them and in some ways their lives helped me make better choices for me.

Such as Lennon's philosophical ideologies.... they made me more accepting of others and IMHO a better person because of what he taught (even though privately he may not have always lived by them)... news for ya, neither do I, but I try to the best of my ability to and I believe he did also.

James Dean taught me I could be myself and still be cool, because coolness comes from within and believing in yourself.

But both of those examples were driven into me from my parents and grandparents first and foremost. Those "idols" I had just reaffirmed what my parents taught me. And both of those examples, my respect and admiration and what they taught me came from their professional works not their personal lives.

My friends influenced me far far more than any "idol" or "role model" I may have had. But in the end I did whatever I did because of how my parents taught me and what I saw my parents do and how they reacted (btw, my father was a problemed gambler and my mother an alcoholic, as were both my grandfathers so my addictive behavior and compulsive gambling is related more to my family than to my love for Pete Rose). I didn't need someone to tell me how to live my life, I figured out what worked for me and I went about living the best life I could.

As for a woman playing a "man's sport". LOL...... basketball is a good woman's sport, as is golf, tennis, swimming, as Danica Patrick is showing auto racing, any sport a man can do a woman can and if she likes it more power to her.

Hell, there are a lot of women far more athletic than I am, so what the fuck does that make me more feminine than the woman playing basketball or tennis? I feel sad for you if you believe it does. What happens if your male child sucks at sports???? Or if your female child is great at them???? Are you going to question their sexuality??????

What happens if your child finds happiness and true love with someone of the same sex?

Are you going to blame that professional athlete or your spouse, or even yourself?

Are you going to disown them (thereby showing them parents put conditions, limitations and expectations on loving their children instead of unconditional love)?

There are so many problems in this world that truly need focused on and some people choose to make the most private, intimate part of a person's life more important than those. How truly fucking sad.

And by the way so someone doesn't attack me on this....... I feel if a "star" or someone in the public wants to make an issue of their sex life then depending on how they do it, I'm cool with it and I applaud them.

If you have people like Martina Navratilova, or George Micheal, or Elton John come out and say they found happiness and true love with someone of the same sex, that may help someone find acceptance within themselves (sometimes it takes someone famous to do that for some people).

However, if you have someone say picturing themselves being with someone of the opposite sex makes them sick and that person starts belittling and putting down heterosexuality, then they are just as prejudiced and just as bad as those who comment hateful, cruel things about homosexuality.

My parents always told me, no matter what I did, no matter what choices I made, no matter who I loved or what made me happy, so long as I hurt noone else and I was truly happy and could live with myself they would always love and accept me....... and they do and that has made my life and my decisions in life far easier than anything any "role model" would ever teach me.

In the end we are all just freaks looking for happiness and companionship in life. How and where we find it is noone elses fucking business, as long as it is between consenting adults and hurts noone else. (I feel sorry that I have to add that, but knowing certain people in this community, they'll be more than happy to turn that life philosophy of mine into all of a sudden I'm oking beastiality, child molestation, rape and so on.)

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"