Friend Reality Check: Blank Check or Bounced Check? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 05-20-2005, 08:33 AM

I have been pondering a thread discussion like this for over a week now. I have not been able to articulate it very well, but as I read this article I saw what I was looking for. While this is a good read by itself, the element that I'm bringing up for discussion is simple and can be seen in the article below in BOLD

"What good would I do you if I just said: 'You poor thing, your boss is an idiot?'" I inquire. "I'll bet your wife has already told you that a million times. That won't help you learn anything or focus on how to sell your boss."

How do your friends support you? Do they give you a blank check and say,"Yeah that's right, you're right." even if they know that you are doing something wrong or not so right? Or do they challenge your conventional thoughts and bring you to a different level, thereby "bouncing" your reality check?

Personally, I have friends who do both. I have some friends that are just pillars of support that give me a blank check all the time no matter what the issues are.

But the ones that I really cherish are the ones that challenge my thinking. The ones that call bullshit on my shit. abaya recently called my attention to something in the asian american thread. There's some decisions that I do not make without passing it by them because they may see something that I do not.

Which brings me full circle as to why I like being here, when I bring my reality check, sometimes it gets completely re-written and I walk away with even more than I started with.

Quote:

No Sale? Don't Blame Your Boss
LINK
When you learn to approach the boss the same way you would a customer, your ideas will meet a happier fate
"How's your day going?" asks a colleague, and I say: "Not bad."

"It's a bad day for me," he responds. "It has been 12 months since I started trying to sell the boss on my plan to restructure our client database."

"Twelve months!" I exclaim. "That's forever. What's the problem?"

"Well, every time I bring up the topic my boss says: 'Let's keep talking about it.' He always sounds positive," says my friend. "And then nothing happens. Two or three times over the past year, I thought we were about to move forward, and then everything stalled. Then he forgot about the whole thing until I brought it up again."

"I'm sorry to hear about that," is all I can come up with. But I'm curious. "What do you think is the problem?"

DISGUSTED LOOK. "My boss is a flake!" says my friend in exasperation. "He has too many balls in the air. He can't stay on top of initiatives from people who report to him. He's a terrible manager."

"Aha," I reply. "So when there's so much competition for his mind-share, who wins? Someone must be able to hold his attention."

"Yes," replies my buddy with a disgusted look. "People who flatter him and let him make half the decisions as they're pitching their programs. They are the ones who get results."

"Fascinating," is my observation. "So there is a way to sell this customer."

"Customer? He's my boss!" is my friend's retort. And then I say:

"He's your boss, and your customer too. He has to buy your vision for your department. And when he tells you he's interested without moving forward, he isn't sold. The ball isn't in his court -- it's in yours. If you want him to move, you have to sell him. And you've just said there's a way to do that: Someone else has done it."

WHOSE FAULT? "But it's his job to move forward on his managers' ideas," whines my friend. "Why should I spend the time?"

"Well, no reason," I say, "if selling the same customer unsuccessfully for 12 solid months doesn't bother you."

"So you're saying this is MY fault?" my colleague asks incredulously.

"I'm sorry, but that's the only way to look at it," I tell him. "Your boss will be as supportive of your plan as you make him, and no more. Just as the boss is responsible for selling his team on a vision for the group's future, so are you responsible for selling him on whatever grand schemes you're hatching. Why would he devote resources or energy -- or even allow you to invest your time -- in a program he isn't sold on?"

BLINDLY APPROVE. "If you can't get him to see the vision," I continue, "why would anyone else see it? How could he give you a green light without truly buying in, and how can he buy in if you haven't brought him there? It's not his fault that he isn't sold. That would be like blaming a customer for not buying from you."

"But this is my boss!" rails my friend (I think he's still my friend). "He's supposed to champion me!"

"Well, right, he's supposed to champion the ideas that he understands and believes in," I reply. "He's not supposed to blindly approve every concept you put in front of him. That wouldn't be responsible."

"Well then," says my colleague, sulking, "he should have shut me down cold, without wasting 12 months of my time."

MORAL SUPPORT. "A person could take exception to that notion of 'your time,'" I observe. "He's paying your salary. He has never turned down your plan, because a little bit of his mindshare is invested in it. You need to build out from there, and sell him all the way. The extra time is a gift. If you were selling a real, live customer, you'd be fired if you couldn't close him in a year. Or you'd decide he wasn't buying, and move on."

"Well, thanks for the moral support!" huffs my buddy.

"What good would I do you if I just said: 'You poor thing, your boss is an idiot?'" I inquire. "I'll bet your wife has already told you that a million times. That won't help you learn anything or focus on how to sell your boss."

"You're wrong about my wife," he says. "She's been saying exactly what you said. I just figured that she didn't know what she was talking about, because she's a physicist, not a businessperson."

KICK THE DOG. The story has a happy ending. My friend got the message, started viewing his boss as a customer, and managed to get him engaged in his database restructuring idea. The boss, who had never hated the plan but who had also never made it a priority, was pleased to come on board finally as a big supporter. And he praised my buddy for his perseverance. "I'm so glad you got those kinks worked out of your plan," he would say to my friend, who would grin and respond: "Yes, the kinks. Thanks for your help on those."

As easy as it is to curse the boss and kick the dog when your ideas aren't accepted, it's far more effective to face the truth and focus on connecting with your customer. And if you find that course of action too frustrating, there's always the option to fire the customer by changing bosses -- that is, by changing jobs.

Of course, if your boss is a habitual plan-staller, then changing bosses would also amount to losing your No. 1 excuse when things don't go your way. But perhaps it would be worth it. It might make the difference between rafting the rapids and pushing on a slowly revolving door. After all, don't your great ideas deserve to see the light of day?

raeanna74 · 05-20-2005, 08:51 AM

Interesting article and subject for discussion. So often we start blaming others for the failure of our ideas. If it's our idea, then it's our job to make it happen.

A true friend knows when to give us a wake up call and when to just listen. There are times when we just need a shoulder to cry on but if that shoulder never pushes us to action or to fix our problems then they are doing us a disservice.

quadro2000 · 05-20-2005, 09:10 AM

Depends on the friend.

I have some friends that will always get my honest opinion, 100%, whether they like it or not, because I know that at the very least, they will appreciate that I've taken the time to tell them the truth.

Then I have some friends who, as they say, can't handle the truth. They're hard-headed and stubborn. They believe that their way is not only the right way, but they only way, and they don't want to hear what I'll say. It'll offend them.

Sometimes I can tell right after I've met someone whether they are the kind of person that can handle honesty. But I usually give honesty a try with all my friends. If they clearly can't take it, I make a mental note and remember to give them the blank check next time.

The other problem is that everybody likes to think they could handle the truth. But we never know until we're faced with it. If you told me you thought my acting was poor in my last production, I'd like to think that I could take it...but could I? I won't know until we're there! And it also depends on various situations - their severity, whether things like dignity and pride are on the line...it's quite complicated.

Great question!

abaya · 05-20-2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

But the ones that I really cherish are the ones that challenge my thinking. The ones that call bullshit on my shit. abaya recently called my attention to something in the asian american thread.

Cyn, I'm glad to be considered the kind of friend (or growing to be so) whom you see as calling your bullshit.

Actually though, getting to that point of honesty with others is something that has taken me a long time. I used to be one of those blank check types, affirming most people as much as I could, until I realized how much I was disrespecting myself and not really helping anyone. Now I try to call BS whenever I see it, and hope that I am doing so in as gentle a manner as possible.

Personally, I have both kinds of friends too, but I do value those more who can challenge me, esp. if they do it gently. Speaking the truth in love...

Cynthetiq · 05-20-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Cyn, I'm glad to be considered the kind of friend (or growing to be so) whom you see as calling your bullshit.

Actually though, getting to that point of honesty with others is something that has taken me a long time. I used to be one of those blank check types, affirming most people as much as I could, until I realized how much I was disrespecting myself and not really helping anyone. Now I try to call BS whenever I see it, and hope that I am doing so in as gentle a manner as possible.

Personally, I have both kinds of friends too, but I do value those more who can challenge me, esp. if they do it gently. Speaking the truth in love...

Interesting, I did not even consider an assertive aspect to this since usually one doesn't need to be assertive to friends.

abaya · 05-20-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

...since usually one doesn't need to be assertive to friends.

Really? I think that's what makes a friend different from an acquaintance (that and being able to call them at 3am for help)... the trust and confidence that if I cross a line or am being stupid, that a good friend will call me on the carpet and be assertive without being afraid that my reaction will disturb the friendship. And vice versa, of course. This is not arrogant, but rather it's tough love. Or mutual accountability, if one is receptive to it.

/looks for Mal...

streak_56 · 05-20-2005, 03:47 PM

My girlfriend gives me a good kick in the ass when I need it. Shes my best friend. Sometimes I agree with her that shes right, but sometimes I also probably don't give her the answer that she wants to hear. We both keep eachother in touch with reality and that we don't always think we're right or we're wrong.

Cynthetiq · 05-20-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Really? I think that's what makes a friend different from an acquaintance (that and being able to call them at 3am for help)... the trust and confidence that if I cross a line or am being stupid, that a good friend will call me on the carpet and be assertive without being afraid that my reaction will disturb the friendship. And vice versa, of course. This is not arrogant, but rather it's tough love. Or mutual accountability, if one is receptive to it.

/looks for Mal...

maybe the words are better said as "I didn't think of assertive as being an important component of being friends."

I took it for granted say, when you are deciding on an activity and don't acquiesce for what you really want to do.

Lead543 · 05-20-2005, 05:36 PM

Uhhh I don't have friends.

Sometimes my boyfriend tells me stuff I don't wanna hear, so I'll pout, act like an eight year old then listen to him. He gives me advice to, a lot of which I can't use because...it's advice about my Mom and well...you know...

I like it when he's frank with me though, I'm not into the whole tiptoe around feelings bit. (My feelings that is)

If I know someone is a little more sensitive I'll rephrase things. I can be very blunt, to the point where it's hurtful. I know that being like that to some people does nothing but alienate them.

When I had more friends of the female variety I found them to be useless. They'd give advice that didn't challenge me it was more along the lines of; "Oh, if I say something she doesn't wanna hear she won't be my friend." I like people who challenge me, it helps me grow and broaden my horizons, even if I resist at first.

Seeker · 05-21-2005, 05:01 AM

I find myself relating very much with abaya on this issue..

Actually I feel this is the reason that I don't have many friends. I wont give out a 'blank cheque'. Ultimately when you offer a blank cheque you unknowingly support and perpetuate behaviour and thought patterns. I also see 'blank cheques' as a lazy option - it takes effort to call someone on something so I suppose I weigh the value of my friendships to the extent that they will give me their honest time and input, as I do them.

Being polite or sending out blank cheques, I feel is probably why society is not very critically aware. Everybody has been so careful to ensure they stroke peoples egos, and be politically correct, that many are now affraid to say anything to anyone. Along with that, I feel people don't know how to take criticism, and when you do point it out it generally isn't taken very well or not seen as constructive.

It took me a long time to learn how to take criticism constructively, and because I didn't see it in society it was a huge conscious effort to both accept it and learn how to dish it assertively as abaya pointed out.

guthmund · 05-21-2005, 12:11 PM

I want someone to support me in times of trouble, not coddle. Someone to help me weather the storm instead of completely sheltering me. Someone that encourages me to be great, but at the same time sensible enough to poke at my ego and call me out when required. So, I guess it's a fine combination of the two. Both blank checks and reality checks.

It's a difficult job, no doubt about it, and arguably my expectations of my friends is the reason why I don't have a lot of friends as it's a lot of work most folks aren't willing to do. But the friends I do have (and family for that matter), who are willing to do that extra bit, over the years have done a fine job of it and have made me a better man than I could have ever been without them and I hope they see me the same way.

05-20-2005, 08:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Interesting article and subject for discussion. So often we start blaming others for the failure of our ideas. If it's our idea, then it's our job to make it happen. A true friend knows when to give us a wake up call and when to just listen. There are times when we just need a shoulder to cry on but if that shoulder never pushes us to action or to fix our problems then they are doing us a disservice. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

05-20-2005, 09:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
quadro2000 All Possibility, Made Of Custard Location: New York, NY	Depends on the friend. I have some friends that will always get my honest opinion, 100%, whether they like it or not, because I know that at the very least, they will appreciate that I've taken the time to tell them the truth. Then I have some friends who, as they say, can't handle the truth. They're hard-headed and stubborn. They believe that their way is not only the right way, but they only way, and they don't want to hear what I'll say. It'll offend them. Sometimes I can tell right after I've met someone whether they are the kind of person that can handle honesty. But I usually give honesty a try with all my friends. If they clearly can't take it, I make a mental note and remember to give them the blank check next time. The other problem is that everybody likes to think they could handle the truth. But we never know until we're faced with it. If you told me you thought my acting was poor in my last production, I'd like to think that I could take it...but could I? I won't know until we're there! And it also depends on various situations - their severity, whether things like dignity and pride are on the line...it's quite complicated. Great question! __________________ You have to laugh at yourself...because you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't. - Emily Saliers

05-21-2005, 05:01 AM	#10 (permalink)
Seeker Getting Clearer Location: with spirit	I find myself relating very much with abaya on this issue.. Actually I feel this is the reason that I don't have many friends. I wont give out a 'blank cheque'. Ultimately when you offer a blank cheque you unknowingly support and perpetuate behaviour and thought patterns. I also see 'blank cheques' as a lazy option - it takes effort to call someone on something so I suppose I weigh the value of my friendships to the extent that they will give me their honest time and input, as I do them. Being polite or sending out blank cheques, I feel is probably why society is not very critically aware. Everybody has been so careful to ensure they stroke peoples egos, and be politically correct, that many are now affraid to say anything to anyone. Along with that, I feel people don't know how to take criticism, and when you do point it out it generally isn't taken very well or not seen as constructive. It took me a long time to learn how to take criticism constructively, and because I didn't see it in society it was a huge conscious effort to both accept it and learn how to dish it assertively as abaya pointed out. __________________ *To those who wander but who are not lost...* ~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to. Last edited by Seeker; 05-21-2005 at 05:02 AM.. Reason: typos

05-21-2005, 12:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I want someone to support me in times of trouble, not coddle. Someone to help me weather the storm instead of completely sheltering me. Someone that encourages me to be great, but at the same time sensible enough to poke at my ego and call me out when required. So, I guess it's a fine combination of the two. Both blank checks and reality checks. It's a difficult job, no doubt about it, and arguably my expectations of my friends is the reason why I don't have a lot of friends as it's a lot of work most folks aren't willing to do. But the friends I do have (and family for that matter), who are willing to do that extra bit, over the years have done a fine job of it and have made me a better man than I could have ever been without them and I hope they see me the same way. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-20-2005, 03:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
streak_56 who ever said streaking was a bad thing? Location: Calgary	My girlfriend gives me a good kick in the ass when I need it. Shes my best friend. Sometimes I agree with her that shes right, but sometimes I also probably don't give her the answer that she wants to hear. We both keep eachother in touch with reality and that we don't always think we're right or we're wrong.

05-20-2005, 05:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lead543 Registered User Location: Calgary	Uhhh I don't have friends. Sometimes my boyfriend tells me stuff I don't wanna hear, so I'll pout, act like an eight year old then listen to him. He gives me advice to, a lot of which I can't use because...it's advice about my Mom and well...you know... I like it when he's frank with me though, I'm not into the whole tiptoe around feelings bit. (My feelings that is) If I know someone is a little more sensitive I'll rephrase things. I can be very blunt, to the point where it's hurtful. I know that being like that to some people does nothing but alienate them. When I had more friends of the female variety I found them to be useless. They'd give advice that didn't challenge me it was more along the lines of; "Oh, if I say something she doesn't wanna hear she won't be my friend." I like people who challenge me, it helps me grow and broaden my horizons, even if I resist at first.