Cynthetiq

I'll cite the word NIGGARDLY...

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lurkette

Um....not that I have heard.

The whole thing smacks of urban legend.

(Off to Snopes!)

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animosity

PC has always pissed me off.
The term African-American pisses me off more than anything else. If you are born in America, you are American. End of story.

water_boy1999

CampingCarl, these forums are used for intellectual conversation. If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, don't bother posting. (sorry mods for stepping in)


Ok, as far as "mankind" is concerned....
We have had many discussions at TFP on the labeling of pretty much everything and how everyone has some gripe about it. We have words to describe gender, race, color, sexual preference, political agenda....the list goes on.

What amazes me is a word like "mankind" is supposed to be inclusive of everyone on the planet without exception, yet there are still people out there that pick this word apart because they associate it with a label.

Retarded is only un-PC because people make it that way. It only became offensive because school children were calling their non-mentally challenged friends "retards" or "tards". So, in an effort to curb the usage of the word, PC Police decide, even though it is part of another clinically and medically appropriate word, to suddenly become offended at an offshoot of the word "mental retardation".

Sure, I do think that our language is constantly changing and new words will continue to be added. If people could just shut the fuck up once in a while and stop being so hypersensitive about a fucking word, this world would be so much more pleasant.

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Lockjaw

Ummmm yeah no.
Find me a black person under 35 that is ok with being called "colored" by a white person and I'll show you the rarest being on the planet.
Don't call black people colored. Black is fine. Colored...is out along with Negro and Negroid.

tspikes51

Question: Where do you live??? I was born in Ohio and we never would have dreamed of using the term "colored" to describe black people. Here in KY, however, the only terms that black people seem to take offense to are ones that begin with "N." By the way, negroid is a scientific term. There are different mixes of pigments and skeletal builds (i.e. Mongoloid and Caucasoid) that anthropologists seperate humans into. Negroid is one of them.

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bonehed1

When I go to starcrap(starbucks) for coffee since there is nothing else and I always tell them "black coffee!" I cant stand cream or sugar but I guess that is me being racist since I will drink black but wont mix it with white!!!

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Strange Famous

I though "negro" was a Spanish word that meant "black thing"?

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Lebell

Dear sweet Jesus, some people consider the word "black" to be racist??

Hell, my ex's mom still called black people "negros", as this was the proper (read *good*) way to call someone with darker skin.

(God, I hate stupid people...)

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Lockjaw

Texas. Born and raised. My mom is from Alabama and spent much of my childhood in the summer time in Alabama,Georgia and Mississippi. Most of my mother's family still lives in the deep deep South. And I'm black and no offense but I think I MIGHT have bit better pulse on this than you do about what might offend regarding the usage of those terms.
And yes if you call a younger black person colored they are likely to take it with the same implied insulting nature as the other words you are familiar with. But if you don't believe me go ask some of your black classmates how do they feel about the word "colored" or better yet to get a full sampling go find a board populated mainly by black people register and ask them. I promise you more will agree with me.
Now this isn't imply that 100% of the black populace will have an issue with this. Older black people late late 50s and up likely won't blink at you using it as that's what they were called most of their lives. Blacks that grew to maturity(age 40-50) during the cultural and racial revolution in this country remember being called colored and might not call you on it but they will wonder why you are saying it doublely so if you are young.
I'd say well over 95% of black people under 35 with the percentage getting higher every 2-3 years you do down from that age will balk at you using the term colored. And the younger you get the more likely a borderline violent reaction will occur.
Just trying to educate folks because a lot of the times people say things that can be construed as racist when they honestly do not mean anything behind it. It's not being PC it's just being respectful.
And yes I know what Negroid is and how the term is used but believe me if you walk around calling black people Negroid they won't be too kind to the usage. Just as if you started calling Asian people Mongoloid.

water_boy1999

Next thing you know we will be changing the color of an 8-Ball to multi colored. Hockey pucks will soon be changed because someone will be upset that the NHL is racist because of the chasing around and beating the black puck. In bowling, the black bowling ball will be banned because it is symbolic of the white man, "the pins", being oppressive towards the black.

That's how silly I think this whole topic is......

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dobster

This is only to the whingeing masses. Those who are incapable of grasping the idea that people AREN'T all out to get them.

There are lots of words out there. There are lots of people out there. Someone is bound to be offended by almost anything you say - its only a matter of time. Some words have their origin in racism and sexism. However, some words that have no basis in racism or sexism are being blamed and misconstrued by people who are hyper aware to an unhealthy level.

I think that it would be easier if people took the context of a word's usage and used that context to help them decide if there is malicious intent. To assume malicious intent without proof is inflamatory and obstructive to people getting along. I find being accused of carelessly causing offence through untended racism and sexism to be HIGHLY offensive.

If you take offence at something I say where there was no rude intent, you can be damn sure i'm encouraged to gear the next thing I say to offend you for your stupidity. NEVER accuse me of rudeness if you have no proof that thats what i intended. The assumption is, in itself, much more offensive than anything you have perceived.

Phew…

CampingCarl

- I figured being called a racist because you ask a black coffee wasnt really an I.N.T.E.L.L.E.C.T.U.A.L. conversation ... but i may be wrong ... it might be one for you
- Anyway, who are you ? Regardless ...
- You can post but I cant express myself



- You really wrote that on your own ??? Because if you did, according to the previous quoted statement, you might shut the fuck up once in a while and stop being so hypersensitive about the words I used. Then this world would be so much more pleasant

P.S. : nothing personal take it easy buddy

Fire

I think that the heart of a lot of peoples dislike of PC attitudes stems from the concepts laid down in orwell's 1984- change the language to change the way people think- dont educate them, controll them- I myself would like to retain the right to insult and offend freely, and frankly belive that pc is just a whitewash that avoids conflict between different people, and therefore avoids the conflict resoloution that follows- seriously, does anyone on the earth belive that calling a person mentally challenged instead of retarded will cause the person to be more accepted, or not made fun of- wake up people, we need to change the people, not the language they are speaking, and sometimes that means letting them say horrible things first.....

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yster

Some people have already touched on this, but I think a lot of the problem people have with these PC-inspired changes is when they are a result of an acquired meaning or connotation, and not the word itself. Retard is one of those, as are many of the various racial terms that have evolved. When one word becomes too "loaded" over time, it is discarded and replaced, with the exact same thing bound to happen again down the line. Obviously "white" is no more inherently racist than "black", but tensions and feelings of inequality outside of the words themselves have contributed to their current level of acceptance. However people decide to use these words, it should be remembered that while we do have the right to free speech, nothing gives us the right to not be offended.
"Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."
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jimbob

A rookie anchorwoman (sorry that should be anchorPERSON) once referred to Archbishop Desmond Tutu as an African-American.

He's just plain African darling, now go and make the coffee.

Halx

The dumb broad!

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saigon1965

I own a coffee joint, most everyone orders by saying "I like a cup of coffe of the day", ofcourse the coffee will be plain without additives, we then ask them if they want some room to add cream, but then for the people who are always looking out for the well being of others, worry about yourself first.

maleficent

So in NYC a regular coffee will get you coffee with milk and two sugars - does this mean now if I want a black coffee - I must order an irregular coffee?

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OzOz

Maleficent, you're getting warm. The correct terminology is "chairperthing". Similarly, "person" should be replaced by "perthing".

One of my favourites is the word "manned" as in "manned spaceflight" or things like that. "Manned" in this case is derived from a Latin root meaning "hand", and the word basically means "controlled by hand" - nothing sexist about it at all.

One wonders when these ridiculously PC types will start insisting that other languages change their words that "sound or look wrong" to us English-speakers (or rather, to some of us), but that have completely PC-irrelevant meanings in their source language.

OzOz

Also, I can't help but wonder what overly PC woMEN or feMALES must think of all of this...

portereight

Here in Canada the media has agreed to refer the the professionals formerly known as Fishermen as simply "Fishers". The only people not using this word are the actual Fishermen (male and female) who pointed out in vain that a fisher is a bird.

CSflim

"chairperthing". I love it!

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TheAgent

you know... i heard about something similar regarding ordering drinks "straight" or "straight up"... you're supposed to ask for it "neat"...

PC and all of this uber-sensitivity stuff sucks...

maleficent

Noticed a commercial for Wendy's kids meals last night-- and inside the kid's meal you get your choice of Chocolate Milk or White milk... hmmm...

:makes a phone call:
Who the hell do you call to complain about this stuff? Is there a National Society for Offended People?

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alpha666

GOOD GOD GET OVER IT!!!!
really the world is becoming a really really really boring place if this is the way things are going ...... if this is what people have to complain about then they really really need a life!

OzOz

"...he would only get his cuppa if he used the terminology 'coffee without milk'. I wonder how he managed to ask for white sugar?"

Ummm - Sugar without shoe polish?

Charlatan

Maybe he should have just ordered Nigger Coffee...

Now that I have your attention... Strange Famous is not wrong. There are very good reasons to alter language... Some words once taken for granted are now deemed inappropriate.

It is all well and good for Stare at the Sun to announce, "its something called THE GOD DAMN ENGLISH LANGUAGE"... but the fact is languages are not immutable... they change through usage -- all the time.

Get over the fact that some people prefer to use humankind or mankind or letter carrier or mail man or any of these changes that annoy you.

Time and usage will wash away this petty bickering over a language that doesn't care what any individual thinks.

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pocon1

I don't use the term retard, becuase it pigeonholes people into one idea. For example, you don't describe someone as "he is a black", because a person is more than that. You can describe someone as "he is black". Same thing with the word retard. "He is retarded", is far different then "he is a retard."

thriolith

*groan*
Geez, how can black be racist when describing coffee? How would you ask for a black tie? or a black pair of shoes. meh. It's really stupid when you can't describe the colour of an object without offending someone.

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Nimetic

Here in Aust we use the terms black and white for coffee. I'm curious - if I was visiting the US and forgot the issue when ordering, how would that be seen by locals?

We sorta wonder about stories we hear... of travelling Aussies using the wrong terms in the presence of US umm err "darker-skinned" people.

Tophat665

Sorry, no. People have a right to be offended by offensive speech, but and they may be able to exclude it from certain places as a matter of privacy, but they have no right to be protected from it. And let me pick that bone too: how can you be protected from speech? What damage can speech do you? Seriously, if one does not believe in onesself, I suppose, then speech which reinforces their peceived shortcomings might put them in a frame of mind as to damage themselves, but that's not a problem of speech, that's mental illness there.

But let us return to protection from offensive speech. Surely it is no mystery that any arbitrary word might be offensive to anyone. To a man with no feet, would anythig but the metric system be offensive? (Is black coffee offensive? Obviously to someone. That sounds like the kind of person to follow at a discrete distance until they leave a lousy tip so you can accurately call them a niggard and watch their feathers really ruffle for no reason.) Is it offensie to the woman who has had to have a radical mastecomy if somenone say that they "just have to get something off their chest" in their presence. I've been there, and I felt a little weird when that came out of my mouth, but just forged ahead because reasonable people do not take common turns of phrase like that personally even if they have a serious negative association with their literal meaning. (and because, having already stuck my little toe in my mouth, figured it would be a good idea not to keep going until I had the foot up to the knee.)

And I am not going to argue mankind/humankind. I have found that folks who are worried about that have already made up their minds. Whehr or not they have a good reason is not something I think it is important to fight about, but I do reserve the right to think they're being profundly superfical, reading as much into linguistic theory as the Victorians did into evolution, and more than a little silly.

So to recap: Your right to not be offended is not a right that trumps free expression in a public forum. Private is, of course, private. And if you want to not use man in the general rather than the gendered sense, that's your right, but I find it a little offensive.

Be Well, oh Famously Strange one.

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jorgelito

Um, did anyone bother to find out the validity of the "news item"? In any case, before everyone jumps to conclusions, how do we even know that the "staff" at the cafe was black? This was in Scotland where I don't think there is a large population of black people. Or maybe the Black Watch was offended? This reminds me of the "racist Ice Cream" thread where a bunch of white people were presumptious and took offence at some "black nogger ice cream".

I think the joke may be on us for buying that "story" which I suspect to be false.

jorgelito

Bowling would be the other way around: Black ball knocking down a bunch of white pins with red-necks.

jorgelito

What's wrong with different names? I see nothing wrong with this. It accurately reflects a classroom these days.

In my class there's Nigel, Francine, Jose, Maria, DeWayne, Yoshi... Why would you consider this to be "PC liberal pantywaist bullshit"? Why are you so bothered by other people's names? Obviously the standardized test is reflecting reality. We are increasingly globalized. Get used to it.

jorgelito

Um, there are plenty, PLENTY of scholarships for middle-class white people, more than any other "group". At my school we have, "Descendants of Confederate Soldiers Scholarship, Descendants of the Mayflower, Sons of Italy, Knights of columbus, Daughters of the American Revolution, Erin Go Braugh (I think it's for Irish: white people), Nordic Legacy and much, much more. So if you have the funds, by all means, start a scholarship for white males. Although it looks like everyone beat you to it.

jorgelito

This is the most sensible post I've read so far.

jorgelito

My brother, I couldn't agree with you more. I think hyphenated-Americans are more confusing than anything. Is Theresa Heinz Kerry African-American? She was born in Africa.... hOw about Charlize Theron?

The problem is two-ways: people STILL only see phentypical differences first versus "nationality". EX: While I deeply appreciate your recognition of American for who/what they are, most people don't. When people see a black guy, they think, "hey look, a black guy" NOT, "hey look, a fellow American." Same with any other hyphenated-American. Most Americans don't "see" Asian-Americans as Americans. They see their perceived "Asianess" first. People don't think of the guy in the turban at the mall as American, they think "look, it's Osama!" even though the guy could be third-generation Sikh from Texas.

I say drop the hyphens and let us all stand together as AMERICANS. Ask yourself this: Do you really subscribe to what you stated:
"If you are born in America, you are American. End of story."

Or does being American mean being white? (I'm not picking on you I'm just putting that out there for people to think about )

Edit* Especially as long as sh*t like this keeps happening: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ghts_dennys_dc

Phage

Tophat665 has exactly the right idea; nobody has the right not to be offended. Nobody has the right to silence those they find offensive precisely because of the 1st Amendment. No matter what is said someone somewhere will be offended, and there is no way to make everyone happy. Describing someone as black is protected by free speech.

In fact, if we want to get wild and crazy I also have a right to use racial slurs like nigger, spic, Japs, Chinks, crackers, etc. As long as I make it clear it is only my opinion I can name-call pretty much all day. The law only protects from certain things; for instance it is illegal to lie about someone in an attempt to damage their reputation. I could call someone full of poo, but if I were to claim that they literally ate poo in their spare time I could be charged with slander. Death threats are obviously out, but free speech means you can express your true feelings without being silenced.

If this story is true, it might be possible to charge the coffee store itself with discrimination. If it is illegal to refuse service to a person because they are black or because they are a Democrat, it should also be illegal to refuse service even if they walk into the store in full KKK robes.

Lin

Ive heard of schools changing the name of a 'black board' to a chalk board.The nursery rhyme 'baa baa black sheep' was considered offensive ??why? just the mention of an object or an animal being black is somehow offensive? Maybe if the black sheep was going around attacking all the white sheep I have no idea what a 'black board' could do to deserve being called offensive though

These examples are totally rediculous but the offensiveness of terms like 'chairman 'and 'manhole ' probably deserve more attention . But my way of thinking is this...these terms may have started out as being used to discribe men doing these jobs , but as women have come into the workplace and now do the jobs equally ,they now mean 'anyone' doing the jobs.Where once chairman meant a 'man' in charge of the board it now comes to mean the 'person' in charge of a board. Peoples 'ideas' of the job can change without the word having to.

people are far too sensitive .