Racist orders coffee in Glasgow. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CSflim · 10-09-2004, 02:53 PM

Quote:

MITCHELL LIBRARY IN GLASGOW

THE world is going mad in its abuse of political correctness. Staff at the coffee shop in the Mitchell Library in Glasgow last week allegedly refused to serve a customer who had ordered a 'black coffee', claiming that it was a racist phrase - he would only get his cuppa if he used the terminology 'coffee without milk'. I wonder how he managed to ask for white sugar?

People are idiots.

Stare At The Sun · 10-09-2004, 02:58 PM

Simply leaves me speechless. My sociology prof refuses to be "sexist" in any way, and is always PC. He actually calls freshman "freshpeople". It amazes me how people blow things way out of proportion.

KellyC · 10-09-2004, 03:17 PM

That asshole!! How dare he order black coffee?? It's African-American coffee!!!

CSflim · 10-09-2004, 03:18 PM

Oh and I should point out that the word "allegedly" was used, and the source should be considered, um, dubious at best. But even if this piece fails as accurate and truthful news-reporting, it could double up and be used as satire! A win-win situation.

Halx · 10-09-2004, 03:18 PM

It's sad that these people cannot see their own complete absurdity. I estimate nothing less than 100% of responses to this thread to agree that it's a ridiculous situation, thus clearly marking the coffee shop staff as complete imbeciles.

But I must rescind a little.. it DOES sound like a rouse.

Lockjaw · 10-09-2004, 04:25 PM

lol man I want to go to that coffee shop and order a cup of black coffee and see if they would refuse a black man his black coffee. lol

TheFu · 10-09-2004, 05:55 PM

Two ways to go about ordering black coffee. Just order coffee and when they ask if you want cream or sugar say no. Or say ask for a cup of coffee and when they ask how you like it say, like my women, hot and black.

maleficent · 10-09-2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyC

That asshole!! How dare he order black coffee?? It's African-American coffee!!!

It's only African American if you are in America -- I don't think you can be Afrcan American in Scotland

------------
In Australia, the way to get a cup of coffee with milk in it, was to order a flat white... Is that also considered racist -- what if an aboriginal person ordered a flat white.. what's that say?

MikeyChalupa · 10-09-2004, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFu

Two ways to go about ordering black coffee. Just order coffee and when they ask if you want cream or sugar say no. Or say ask for a cup of coffee and when they ask how you like it say, like my women, hot and black.

Hot, black, and RICH.

-Mikey

unkle_escobar · 10-09-2004, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stare At The Sun

Simply leaves me speechless. My sociology prof refuses to be "sexist" in any way, and is always PC. He actually calls freshman "freshpeople". It amazes me how people blow things way out of proportion.

Thats just rediculous, is it "Peoplekind" as well?

Rlyss · 10-09-2004, 08:58 PM

My favorite PC joke is that you have call the mailman a 'person person'. 'Mail' sounds like 'male', and that's sexist, so to be fair it must be a person. And it's not necessarily a man doing the mailing, so it's person too.

Mail man = person person.

Cynthetiq · 10-09-2004, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyC

That asshole!! How dare he order black coffee?? It's African-American coffee!!!

maybe in america.. but in Glasgow, Scotland, which is part of the UK?

edit:

I see mal got to it before me.

thefictionweliv · 10-09-2004, 09:45 PM

What the hell is the world coming to?
Soon all Flinstones recordings will by law have to be recalled to have the words "gay ol' time" removed.

Shortly after the flag will be the blood color, undark, and evening sky. The blue is removed to prevent future predjudice against a possible blue tinted merpeople of the future.

Bill O'Rights · 10-09-2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I estimate nothing less than 100% of responses to this thread to agree that it's a ridiculous situation, thus clearly marking the coffee shop staff as complete imbeciles.

Better make that 99%

Can't you see how insensitive this really is? Black coffee indeed. you are debasing an entire race of people with those two simple, yet oh so sharp words. What is so difficult about ordering Coffee Without Cream? Your mouth has only to form one extra word...two simple sylables...and everyone gets along. Is it really that much to ask?

You do realize, I hope, that I'm being facetious...right? Go back to 100%.

omega2K4 · 10-09-2004, 10:05 PM

Someone make me a black russian.

KellyC · 10-09-2004, 11:17 PM

Oops. Silly me

Alright, go back to call it black coffee

Strange Famous · 10-10-2004, 12:24 AM

These sort of "PC gone mad" stories normally are not what they seem, I would need to know a lot more about it before condemning the coffee shop. Clearly, the term "black" as a description of an object's physical appearance is not necessarily racist.

Strange Famous · 10-10-2004, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unkle_escobar

Thats just rediculous, is it "Peoplekind" as well?

no, it's humankind.

SecretMethod70 · 10-10-2004, 01:59 AM

oh? huMANkind? I don't think so. It's huPERSONkind.

Political correctness is a load of crap.

Strange Famous · 10-10-2004, 04:43 AM

I disagree, although like anything else it can be carried too far.

There is a lot of language which used to be freely used that was derogatory. For example, it used to be acceptable to call educationally disabled children "retards"... it is no longer acceptable, and I think that's good. Words that are hurtful or offensive should become unacceptable and removed from the public domain. On the margins, there will always be these stories... I looked into this particular one, and all I could find was the same thing that the original poster picked up, from a opinion column in a Scottish tabloid called the Daily Record... and a few blogs quoting it.

I think most people can tell that "black coffee" is not offensive... I think many people do feel - for example - addressing unmarried women as "Miss" is insulting. You have to trust the common sense of the people.

Stare At The Sun · 10-10-2004, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I disagree, although like anything else it can be carried too far.

There is a lot of language which used to be freely used that was derogatory. For example, it used to be acceptable to call educationally disabled children "retards"... it is no longer acceptable, and I think that's good. Words that are hurtful or offensive should become unacceptable and removed from the public domain. On the margins, there will always be these stories... I looked into this particular one, and all I could find was the same thing that the original poster picked up, from a opinion column in a Scottish tabloid called the Daily Record... and a few blogs quoting it.

I think most people can tell that "black coffee" is not offensive... I think many people do feel - for example - addressing unmarried women as "Miss" is insulting. You have to trust the common sense of the people.

Calling someone a "retard" is just cutting down the term "mental retardation". It is not a "good" thing that PC has totally run amok. If you don't like what I say DON'T LISTEN. Simple as that. And no, its not humankind, its MANKIND. Terms that have existed for THOUSANDS of years should not be changed because of some Fem-nazi bitch that gets offended.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ankind&x=0&y=0
"1 /'man-'kInd, -"kInd/ : the human race : the totality of human beings

Strange Famous · 10-10-2004, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stare At The Sun

Calling someone a "retard" is just cutting down the term "mental retardation". It is not a "good" thing that PC has totally run amok. If you don't like what I say DON'T LISTEN. Simple as that. And no, its not humankind, its MANKIND. Terms that have existed for THOUSANDS of years should not be changed because of some Fem-nazi bitch that gets offended.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ankind&x=0&y=0
"1 /'man-'kInd, -"kInd/ : the human race : the totality of human beings

the term "mankind" explicitly excludes women, and therefore it is inappropriate. I am not saying people should be prevented by law from saying it if they want, but in the education system, in state literature and so on, the appropriate terms should be used.

Free speech is all well and good, but people also have a right to be protected from offensive speech.

It is not unreasonable for women to be offended by a term that implies that humanity is male - this devalues the contributions of women to the human race, and portrays women as secondary to men.

It is unreasonable to be offended by someone asking for a "black coffee"

Like I said, you will always find people who's opinions are onm either margin... I think the common sense of the people can find a sensible middle ground, and there is a general consensus about what is politically incorrect and what is not.

Out of interest, why do you find it difficult to use the term "humankind", or to call first years "freshpeople". Surely being inclusive is a good thing?

Da Munk · 10-10-2004, 05:25 AM

The problem is that there is no offensive intent behind these words or phrases. The only way to be offended by things like that is to go out of your way to be offended by it. When someone says "mankind" or "freshman" they aren't trying to exclude women, they're just using words that have been used to describe these things for years. If the words had actually been used in a derogatory manner that would be one thing, but taking offense when any sensible person can tell that none is intended is just stupid.

maleficent · 10-10-2004, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I think most people can tell that "black coffee" is not offensive... I think many people do feel - for example - addressing unmarried women as "Miss" is insulting. You have to trust the common sense of the people.
.

OH I have to know... Why am I supposed to be insulted by being addressed as Miss? I can see Old Maid Maleficient as a derogatory term, but when my very southern girlfriend's son calls me Miss Maryellen (because that's how he's taught how to address adult( I think it's charming.

I have never been insulted by Miss in my life -- do I need to start ?

Strange Famous · 10-10-2004, 05:51 AM

A lot of people feel that, because Miss is the title of an unmarried woman, and Mrs a married woman, it implies that a woman does not enter real adulthood until married.

A male child would correctly be called Master, but once they become an adult they are called "Mr" whether they are married or not.

maleficent · 10-10-2004, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

A lot of people feel that, because Miss is the title of an unmarried woman, and Mrs a married woman, it implies that a woman does not enter real adulthood until married..

I have never heard this before --I choose to not be offended by it...

Redlemon · 10-10-2004, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

In Australia, the way to get a cup of coffee with milk in it, was to order a flat white... Is that also considered racist -- what if an aboriginal person ordered a flat white.. what's that say?

"Flat white"? Hey, who says white women can't have "back"? That's offensive!

Macheath · 10-10-2004, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

In Australia, the way to get a cup of coffee with milk in it, was to order a flat white... Is that also considered racist -- what if an aboriginal person ordered a flat white.. what's that say?

Of course as an Aussie waiter, I also get a few orders for 'long blacks' but that doesn't mean it's too beaucoup. Why uphold stereotypes.

I'll take it noir, bereft of emulsion.

Also Ms. (pronounced "Mz") is the universal answer to the Miss/Mrs. controversy - plus, it sounds kinda cool.

Stare At The Sun · 10-10-2004, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

the term "mankind" explicitly excludes women, and therefore it is inappropriate. I am not saying people should be prevented by law from saying it if they want, but in the education system, in state literature and so on, the appropriate terms should be used.

Free speech is all well and good, but people also have a right to be protected from offensive speech.

It is not unreasonable for women to be offended by a term that implies that humanity is male - this devalues the contributions of women to the human race, and portrays women as secondary to men.

It is unreasonable to be offended by someone asking for a "black coffee"

Like I said, you will always find people who's opinions are onm either margin... I think the common sense of the people can find a sensible middle ground, and there is a general consensus about what is politically incorrect and what is not.

Out of interest, why do you find it difficult to use the term "humankind", or to call first years "freshpeople". Surely being inclusive is a good thing?

That is so wrong, on so many levels, it simply defies logic. To begin with;

"Mankind" does not exclude women, first and foremost, its something called THE GOD DAMN ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Mankind is a compound word, and is based on the foundation of the language both you, and I speak. Man, meaning, huMANs, not huPEOPLE but human, and Kind, meaning all of the human race. To say that "mankind" should be People-Kind or any other PC nonsense is just another form of newspeak.

Secondly; In countries where you are free to speak your mind, you can say whatever you damn well please. If I choose to say something you don't like DON'T LISTEN. If you don't want to listen to KKK members, DON'T. That is the freedom you have as well, to NOT listen. If you don't want to listen the NAACP march on washington DC then DON'T. But how dare you try and limit my freedom of speech by saying it "offends" you. Cry me a fucking river, and get over it.

And there is such a thing as tradition, and leaving well alone. We don't need to change our entire language because it offends a feminist, or a liberal, or person who gets offended by everything that someone says.

Also, I love how you don't respond to my original post, in which, I responded to your saying that "calling a person a retard" is bad. However, that is just a shortend term for "mental retardation".

Strange Famous · 10-10-2004, 06:52 AM

I do understand what the word "retard" means, and I do believe that many people would find it offensive to be described in that way, or for a loved one to be described in that way.

That the term "man" is used to encompass man and women is in itself sexist. Language constantly changes, and certainly should be changed if it is offensive. Many words relating to race and ethnicity were acceptable 100 years ago that are deeply offensive today - this is how language changes.

I certainly dont propose to legally forbid you from using any word unless it is hate speech or inciting violence, but what we do propose, is that the education system, the language of the state be appropriate and politically correct.

If you want to refer to mankind, no one is going to stop you. If - for example - a government form including something like "the person filling this in must confirm if he is employed" that is clearly unacceptable and should be changed. At school, children should be taught to use terms which do not cause offense and which communicate intention in a way that is inclusive and egaliterian. If a school text book gives examples of human interaction and all the examples include white males, this is wrong, and should be changed, because it excludes minority groups and women... this is what we mean by political correctness.

It is not about forbidding free speech, it is about education and shaping language in a way that is appropriate. It is as easy to say "chairperson" as "chairmen" ... so why should we chose to use a sexist word, in favour of a word that is gender neutral?

maleficent · 10-10-2004, 07:14 AM

But couldn't the term chairperson be construed as masculine - -as the word SON is in it - and son is a male...

and you are excluding women...

Stare At The Sun · 10-10-2004, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I do understand what the word "retard" means, and I do believe that many people would find it offensive to be described in that way, or for a loved one to be described in that way.

That the term "man" is used to encompass man and women is in itself sexist. Language constantly changes, and certainly should be changed if it is offensive. Many words relating to race and ethnicity were acceptable 100 years ago that are deeply offensive today - this is how language changes.

I certainly dont propose to legally forbid you from using any word unless it is hate speech or inciting violence, but what we do propose, is that the education system, the language of the state be appropriate and politically correct.

If you want to refer to mankind, no one is going to stop you. If - for example - a government form including something like "the person filling this in must confirm if he is employed" that is clearly unacceptable and should be changed. At school, children should be taught to use terms which do not cause offense and which communicate intention in a way that is inclusive and egaliterian. If a school text book gives examples of human interaction and all the examples include white males, this is wrong, and should be changed, because it excludes minority groups and women... this is what we mean by political correctness.

It is not about forbidding free speech, it is about education and shaping language in a way that is appropriate. It is as easy to say "chairperson" as "chairmen" ... so why should we chose to use a sexist word, in favour of a word that is gender neutral?

To begin with;

If you don't like the word "retard"...to fucking bad. I don't like the word "the" you are never allowed to say when I am around. Once again, if you don't like it, don't listen, or leave. People have the freedom of speech, if you start impending speech based on what "offends" or basically, hurts someones feelings, then that is going to get way out of hand, really fast. Almost like someone being called a racist for asking for BLACK COFFEE! but that would NEVER happen, would it.......oh...wait...

Secondly, yes, language does change, but the ROOTS of words do NOT change. Incase you forget, language has to be based on something, every language in the world has "masculine" and "feminine" words. Do you want to change that as well? Once again, if you don't like the words I use, thats great, don't listen. But do NOT try and push what you think on me.

Third, "hate" speech is the biggest load of bullshit i've ever heard. If you're going to outlaw that, then you better not allow any rap concerts,you better make a new ammedment to the constitution, taking away the right to assemble, and the freedom of speech. EVERY US citizen has the right to say what he or she so desires. I have seen KKK rallies, and I've seen a gay parade, i've seen Neo Nazi's march, and i've seen the black panthers march. I've been present during anti war demonstrations, and i've seen people picket and stike. I've seen people march on abortion clinics, and porn shops. NONE of those people were in the wrong. They all have the right to say what they want, think what they want, and assemble where they want. Once again if you don't like it TO BAD. DON'T LISTEN. Noone forces you to. You have a CHOICE.

Your fourth paragraph is just...wow. First off, not EVERYTHING has to be a multicultural, happy go lucky, all inclusive outlook of the world. It's OK for a TV show to have an all white cast, it's OK for a picture to just have 3 black people in it. Its OK, not EVERYTHING has to be a totally PC thing. You need to realize that in reality, noone really gives a shit about being PC.

And your "shaping" of the language to how you see fit disgusts me. "Chairmen" is a perfectly suitable term. You have to look at the ROOTS of words.
"Woman"
"Man"
Not "Woperson". Get realistic, its our language, and not everything has to be gender neutral. There is something to be said about not changing everything, to please the easily offended few.

timalkin · 10-10-2004, 10:55 AM

The first time I noticed this PC liberal pantywaist bullshit was in grade school. We would read about different people on standardized tests who had names like Yamoshita or Ngumbo or Zning. Traditional English names were hardly found at all.

It really is amazing how certain feel good factions in America will try to inflict their propaganda on the small children who are forced to go to school and listen to it.

SecretMethod70 · 10-10-2004, 11:05 AM

This is like refusing to use the word "history" because it has "his" in it. Nevermind that in order to do so one must ignore the etymology of the word which shows it has absolutely NOTHING to do with masculinity or femininity.

I think that's what PC is. It's dumb people thinking they're smart because they see all this "injustice" in our language....only if they were actually intelligent they would know that the "injustice" they see, most of the time, has absolutely no relation to what they think it does.

So, perhaps PC-ness can be blamed on our poor educational system.

StickODynomite · 10-10-2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

It amazes me how people blow things way out of proportion.

Exactly what I was thinking.

dood · 10-10-2004, 12:09 PM

Racism is a double standard unfortunately, but it will eventually even out. We are curently still in a backlash, where society had extreme prejudice towards those of african descent and whiplashed to the need to be overly sensitive to absolutely anything that can be construed as racist in any way towards those that are sensitive to the issue.

I will be glad when it does even out, the double standard annoys me. A black comedian making fun of white people is hilarious, a white comedian making fun of black people would be boo'd off stage and banned from performing again.

waltert · 10-10-2004, 12:28 PM

I went on a politically correct beach bus ride when in australia.
coach drivers (bus drivers) were to be referred to as steering wheel attendants, and getting stuck in the mud was referred to as becoming geographically permanent.

I forget the others, it was all in good fun, and I think the driver did a good job of pointing out many of the absurdities of PC.

if its racist to call someone as "black" then why hasnt the term "white" been dubbed racist?

clearly blacks are brown, and whites are more of a peach color.

CampingCarl · 10-10-2004, 04:12 PM

Regardless morons

tspikes51 · 10-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I disagree, although like anything else it can be carried too far.

There is a lot of language which used to be freely used that was derogatory. For example, it used to be acceptable to call educationally disabled children "retards"... it is no longer acceptable, and I think that's good. Words that are hurtful or offensive should become unacceptable and removed from the public domain. On the margins, there will always be these stories... I looked into this particular one, and all I could find was the same thing that the original poster picked up, from a opinion column in a Scottish tabloid called the Daily Record... and a few blogs quoting it.

I think most people can tell that "black coffee" is not offensive... I think many people do feel - for example - addressing unmarried women as "Miss" is insulting. You have to trust the common sense of the people.

I may agree with the "retard" statement, because that term has evolved into a derogatory one when used with not retarded people (i.e."Joe (who has no mental disabilities), you're a retard.") However, you may not realize that in in the South, the most politically incorrect place in America,(we call black people "colored" or "black," and that's okay with them) children call every woman "miss" (pronounced mIz). It's actually a mispronounciation of "missus," which means that if they're married or not isn't their business, even if we know if they are or not.

I agree with waltert. If "black" is a racist term, why isn't "white?" Why can't members of minority races be racist??? I just graduated from high school a few months ago, and I noticed that there were plenty of scholarships for women, blacks, Indians, Asians, and Hispanics, but none for middle-class, white males. I want to start a scholarship for just that, but that would be racist. How can you call that racist. It's like slavery (which I am against). It wasn't always just black people, but people sure as hell like to think so. Romans held slaves that were of all sorts of backgrounds, and they were mostly white for the first half of a century. It was just easy for Europeans and Americans in the 17th-19th century to aquire slaves from Africa because we had guns and they didn't.

woodhead · 10-11-2004, 12:51 AM

Is this new? Maybe to the UK. I thought that for at least two decades in the US, people had been forced to use say 'coffee with cream' instead of 'white'.

10-09-2004, 03:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	That asshole!! How dare he order black coffee?? It's African-American coffee!!! __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

10-09-2004, 03:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Oh and I should point out that the word "allegedly" was used, and the source should be considered, um, dubious at best. But even if this piece fails as accurate and truthful news-reporting, it could double up and be used as satire! A win-win situation. __________________

10-09-2004, 03:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	It's sad that these people cannot see their own complete absurdity. I estimate nothing less than 100% of responses to this thread to agree that it's a ridiculous situation, thus clearly marking the coffee shop staff as complete imbeciles. But I must rescind a little.. it DOES sound like a rouse. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-09-2004, 10:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	Someone make me a black russian. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

10-09-2004, 11:17 PM	#16 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	Oops. Silly me Alright, go back to call it black coffee __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

10-09-2004, 02:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	Simply leaves me speechless. My sociology prof refuses to be "sexist" in any way, and is always PC. He actually calls freshman "freshpeople". It amazes me how people blow things way out of proportion.

10-09-2004, 04:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	lol man I want to go to that coffee shop and order a cup of black coffee and see if they would refuse a black man his black coffee. lol

10-09-2004, 05:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
TheFu Crazy	Two ways to go about ordering black coffee. Just order coffee and when they ask if you want cream or sugar say no. Or say ask for a cup of coffee and when they ask how you like it say, like my women, hot and black.

10-09-2004, 08:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Rlyss The Pusher Location: Edinburgh	My favorite PC joke is that you have call the mailman a 'person person'. 'Mail' sounds like 'male', and that's sexist, so to be fair it must be a person. And it's not necessarily a man doing the mailing, so it's person too. Mail man = person person.

10-09-2004, 09:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
thefictionweliv Insane	What the hell is the world coming to? Soon all Flinstones recordings will by law have to be recalled to have the words "gay ol' time" removed. Shortly after the flag will be the blood color, undark, and evening sky. The blue is removed to prevent future predjudice against a possible blue tinted merpeople of the future.

10-10-2004, 12:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	These sort of "PC gone mad" stories normally are not what they seem, I would need to know a lot more about it before condemning the coffee shop. Clearly, the term "black" as a description of an object's physical appearance is not necessarily racist. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-10-2004, 01:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	oh? huMANkind? I don't think so. It's huPERSONkind. Political correctness is a load of crap. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

10-10-2004, 04:43 AM	#20 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I disagree, although like anything else it can be carried too far. There is a lot of language which used to be freely used that was derogatory. For example, it used to be acceptable to call educationally disabled children "retards"... it is no longer acceptable, and I think that's good. Words that are hurtful or offensive should become unacceptable and removed from the public domain. On the margins, there will always be these stories... I looked into this particular one, and all I could find was the same thing that the original poster picked up, from a opinion column in a Scottish tabloid called the Daily Record... and a few blogs quoting it. I think most people can tell that "black coffee" is not offensive... I think many people do feel - for example - addressing unmarried women as "Miss" is insulting. You have to trust the common sense of the people. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-10-2004, 05:25 AM	#23 (permalink)
Da Munk Crazy	The problem is that there is no offensive intent behind these words or phrases. The only way to be offended by things like that is to go out of your way to be offended by it. When someone says "mankind" or "freshman" they aren't trying to exclude women, they're just using words that have been used to describe these things for years. If the words had actually been used in a derogatory manner that would be one thing, but taking offense when any sensible person can tell that none is intended is just stupid.

10-10-2004, 05:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	A lot of people feel that, because Miss is the title of an unmarried woman, and Mrs a married woman, it implies that a woman does not enter real adulthood until married. A male child would correctly be called Master, but once they become an adult they are called "Mr" whether they are married or not. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-10-2004, 06:52 AM	#30 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I do understand what the word "retard" means, and I do believe that many people would find it offensive to be described in that way, or for a loved one to be described in that way. That the term "man" is used to encompass man and women is in itself sexist. Language constantly changes, and certainly should be changed if it is offensive. Many words relating to race and ethnicity were acceptable 100 years ago that are deeply offensive today - this is how language changes. I certainly dont propose to legally forbid you from using any word unless it is hate speech or inciting violence, but what we do propose, is that the education system, the language of the state be appropriate and politically correct. If you want to refer to mankind, no one is going to stop you. If - for example - a government form including something like "the person filling this in must confirm if he is employed" that is clearly unacceptable and should be changed. At school, children should be taught to use terms which do not cause offense and which communicate intention in a way that is inclusive and egaliterian. If a school text book gives examples of human interaction and all the examples include white males, this is wrong, and should be changed, because it excludes minority groups and women... this is what we mean by political correctness. It is not about forbidding free speech, it is about education and shaping language in a way that is appropriate. It is as easy to say "chairperson" as "chairmen" ... so why should we chose to use a sexist word, in favour of a word that is gender neutral? __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-10-2004, 07:14 AM	#31 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	But couldn't the term chairperson be construed as masculine - -as the word SON is in it - and son is a male... and you are excluding women... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

10-10-2004, 10:55 AM	#33 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	The first time I noticed this PC liberal pantywaist bullshit was in grade school. We would read about different people on standardized tests who had names like Yamoshita or Ngumbo or Zning. Traditional English names were hardly found at all. It really is amazing how certain feel good factions in America will try to inflict their propaganda on the small children who are forced to go to school and listen to it. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix

10-10-2004, 11:05 AM	#34 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	This is like refusing to use the word "history" because it has "his" in it. Nevermind that in order to do so one must ignore the etymology of the word which shows it has absolutely NOTHING to do with masculinity or femininity. I think that's what PC is. It's dumb people thinking they're smart because they see all this "injustice" in our language....only if they were actually intelligent they would know that the "injustice" they see, most of the time, has absolutely no relation to what they think it does. So, perhaps PC-ness can be blamed on our poor educational system. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 10-11-2004 at 01:47 PM.. Reason: REDICULOUS spelling error

10-10-2004, 12:09 PM	#36 (permalink)
dood Upright Location: Chained to my desk	Racism is a double standard unfortunately, but it will eventually even out. We are curently still in a backlash, where society had extreme prejudice towards those of african descent and whiplashed to the need to be overly sensitive to absolutely anything that can be construed as racist in any way towards those that are sensitive to the issue. I will be glad when it does even out, the double standard annoys me. A black comedian making fun of white people is hilarious, a white comedian making fun of black people would be boo'd off stage and banned from performing again.

10-10-2004, 12:28 PM	#37 (permalink)
waltert Insane	I went on a politically correct beach bus ride when in australia. coach drivers (bus drivers) were to be referred to as steering wheel attendants, and getting stuck in the mud was referred to as becoming geographically permanent. I forget the others, it was all in good fun, and I think the driver did a good job of pointing out many of the absurdities of PC. if its racist to call someone as "black" then why hasnt the term "white" been dubbed racist? clearly blacks are brown, and whites are more of a peach color. Last edited by waltert; 10-10-2004 at 12:30 PM..

10-10-2004, 04:12 PM	#38 (permalink)
CampingCarl Upright	Regardless morons

10-11-2004, 12:51 AM	#40 (permalink)
woodhead Upright Location: Russia	Is this new? Maybe to the UK. I thought that for at least two decades in the US, people had been forced to use say 'coffee with cream' instead of 'white'.