boatin

One of the things that I most love about this place is the openess and ability to get along with other members. The Wayside, Exhibition, and Sexuality are some of the obvious places where it's clear people know how to be supportive and keep negativity to themselves.


Sadly, there are some forums where that isn't the case. Politics, as an example. The mods labor mightily to keep the peace there, and kudos to them. But the lines are gray, and people are often rude* in some sly ways. Implying someone is unpatriotic, btw, is rude.

I just read the 'President Ronald Reagan is Dead at 93' thread. And am unable to be silent. Out of respect for that thread, I'm starting my own.

The point: someone shared an unpopular opinion in the thread, and received an accusation of being a troll, and two very personal attacks.

Whether the poster was a troll, or not, is certainly debatable. Also debatable are the merits of responding to a (perceived) troll and creating an un-needed debate. But the rudeness is, IMHO, worse by far than sharing an opinion (that everyone is entitled to).

MY PLEA: can't we all just get along? Can we ask ourselves if this thread is the right place to respond to something we disagree with? And most of all, can we respect the person while disagreeing with them?

I know this stuff is posted everywhere. And I know the moderators work hard at this. And I know I'm not one, and this isn't my place to say this. But after reading that thread, I was gonna pop.







*admission of guilt - I received a warning myself. Great eye opener, and hopefully I have learned, and demonstrate my learning.

phredgreen

hiya. i'm a moderator that just worked pretty hard to clean up that mess and get it back on track. things like this happen, and it's really the responsibility of all of our users to bring things like those attacks to our attention - we can't always be reading everything that's posted on the tfp at all hours. i would heavily suggest the "Report this post to a moderator" link be used in situations like that so the offense can be dealt with swiftly and the thread can move on.

on the same token, i certainly wouldn't promote the idea of people not saying exactly what they feel, but it is required that if a person has something to say, they do so constructively and intelligently. furthermore, having the good sense to "pick your battles," as it may, will assure that one thread dosen't get completely sidetracked because someone has something to say that waylays it. it's easy to start a new thread if you have something to say that dosen't necessarily fit into the thread you may be reading at the moment, and at times, it's the best thing to do.

we appreciate your concern, and hope that you will continue to contibute these kinds of thoughtful posts to the tfp.

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My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
- Thomas Paine

Mondak

As the person in question - it is my opinion that if you want to trash Ronnie and blame things on him, the time to do so was yesterday or in the near future - not today. I was offended and responded.

I honestly feel like I lost a family member and my hero today.

Thanks for starting your own thread and sorry for invading it. You have a good point and I hope I don't break our sense of community. I did my best to stay even and edited and reread my comments to the best of my ability. Dealing with loss is not easy.

Some people are at their best when they feel strongly about something. Maybe I should start a journal for a case like this. . . although that would feel pretty pointless and I am not sure it would be read at all.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

boatin

Simply put, I hope my point was that we need to police ourselves. Mods are great, but shouldn't be needed to the degree they are.

Not sure if the history was needed, or if leaving names off was enough. I do feel for your lose, Mondak, and it was really the rude posts I had a problem with. I apologize for putting you in the limelight (as the easily identified person).

I felt some specifics were needed to make it a relevant point. My frustration led me to make my post. It's ironic that frustration is what often leads to posts (at least for me), but it isn't the best time to write effectively.

"Rudeness is unspeakably ugly to me." Or something to that effect. And I did report them, as I hope someone reports me if I lose my mind someday...

yatzr

*points to topic of thread*

I actually just read that thread and then came across this thread and felt the need to say something.

no offense to phredgreen at all. I'm sure his job can get frustrating at times and I don't blame him for slipping a little. But people get edited and get warnings for the stuff like that, and this just frustrates other people, and I think it starts to hurt the community. Overall, I still think he's an awesome moderator who does a terriffic job of keeping everyone clean.

edit: I didn't want this to sound personal or anything, it's just that I saw phredgreen's post right before I saw this thread. And I know this topic has come up quite a few times (violently in a few cases) and I especially don't want anything like that to happen here.

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Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

DelayedReaction

I agree that individuals need maintain a level of maturity, especially when dealing with sensitive topics that people are passionate about. One of the things that concerns me is the over use of mod censorship power; it's often used in a blatant way that really jars the thread. If mods were to use a less overt method of correction (maybe PMing the offender in question and suggesting he edit a post within 24 hours, for example) it would be a somewhat more transparent form of control.

__________________
If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

Jesus Pimp

I've been a victim of censorship and thread editing on tfproject.

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Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

Cynthetiq

sometimes the mod does ask for a person to edit the post to give them the ability to save face, but that's usually only if we can get to them in time. Sometimes 24 hours is forever and if you think that it's better to have something blatantly wrong outstanding for 24 hours and viewable to the user community, that's just never going to happen.

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assilem

In the thread titled "Fahrenheit 9/11 - Trailer " I was the one that made the rude comment: "Does anyone else smell a troll?". This comment was rude because it was an intrusion on the thread that added nothing and I did not need to assume the roll of moderator by making this comment. I have learned my lesson and I apologize. What phredgreen said in response was harsh but it was his job.

__________________
The mother of mankind, what time his pride
Had cast him out from Heaven, with all his host
Of rebel Angels

Cynthetiq

what would have been best would have been to report the post using the handy button and then stated that commentary to the moderators, that would have been the most appropriate place for your comment.

all the moderators get that post when it's put out. so we sometimes race to see just what it is and fix it.

DelayedReaction

What a mod considers "blatantly wrong" may simply be poor communication on the part of the poster. And I do think it is better to have something improper stand for 24 hours than to see "So and so doesn't know how to play nice" written in yellow letters when a mod censors a post.

Frankly I don't like the idea of anyone changing another individual's writing, no matter how offensive. For the most part the people I've met here are intelligent and mature individuals who are capable of policing themselves.

This all boils down to the original topic; people need to remember that the goal of this board is to promote community and discussion. If you're replying to someone because you want to prove them wrong, maybe you shouldn't post. If you want to post because you can provide an informative response that contains a compelling argument, then go ahead.

__________________
If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

Cynthetiq

well, the most part.. that leaves the lesser part, and those aren't capable of policing themselves. It's those people that the mods are here...

warrrreagl

I applaud your thoughts and would like to add a couple of my own. First of all, please follow Phred's advice and use the Mods; that's what they're here for. I've only been viciously brutalized once on TFP, and it was over a negative opinion I expressed about pit bull dogs (how ironic is that?). I reported the problem to the Mods, and they swept through with Spic and Span, baby. When it comes to personal attacks, the Mods don't play.

Secondly, I can't pass up the opportunity to express my general dismay over the growing numbers in our society of people who feel they must actively stamp out anything they personally disagree with. I think it's related to a growing lack of intelligence; ignorant people are both intolerant and suspicious, and that usually leads to trouble. Sometimes, when the very survival of the tribe is on the chopping block, it can be necessary to become intolerant and suspicious. However, that should never be a day-to-day philosophy of life.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

DelayedReaction

I just wish we could give people more leeway when it comes to moderating. I would rather have a moderator leave the post as is and speak with the person through an outside channel. It provides less of an impact on the thread, allows the poster to redeem themselves. If they are unable to cooperate with the community, then they shouldn't be a member of the community.

Either way it's a good board. This is just a personal thing that I don't think will ever go away.

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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

ARTelevision

Yep. The thing is, unless you see what occurs behind the scenes on a daily basis you wouldn't know the vast and broad amounts of leeway that are granted. If we were any more tilted in the leeway department we'd be horizontal.

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create evolution

DelayedReaction

I never considered the "behind-the-scenes" perspective. Maybe you guys should have a tour of the inner workings behind TFP one of these days.

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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

perripken

boatin,
first of all, thank you for starting this thread. I was going to do the same. I think sometimes we all forget where we are. We are in a community that is supposed to be able to voice our opinions without being attacked and without attacking others. I for one am upset that the Reagan thread had to be closed, and it was because of the relentlessness of a Reagan supporter. I also would like to applaud phredgreen (even though he doesn't like Creed) for closing it, since the whole focus of the thread was lost.
I wasn't a Reagan supporter or hater. I just admire the man for the position he held and the time that he held it. I also, as was mentioned in the thread before it closed, admire him for the awareness of his disease that he brought about. RIP Mr.President!

__________________
And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

apeman

got nothing to say about Reagan, but TFP is one of the most enlightened and generally polite forums I've ever seen. I am still impressed every day with how nice everyone is. Generally. OK, politics is a bit worse but what do you expect? It's politics.

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

assilem

Maybe we should have a special "flame" thread in politics. I don't see much polite discourse there anyhow or maybe it would just spread like a virus throughout the entire TFP. Bad idea, never mind.

__________________
The mother of mankind, what time his pride
Had cast him out from Heaven, with all his host
Of rebel Angels

StormBerlin

Yep, bad idea.

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"if anal sex could get a girl pregnant i'd be tits deep in child support" Arcane

tecoyah

I do agree with the need to moderate ourselves, but I would like to point out the need to politely moderate each other as well. It takes more effort, and control. But in many situations it is the reply to a flame that starts the "Real" downward spiral. By simply (and calmly) accepting the opposing opinion as expression, or ignoring the flame alltogether, I have often stopped thread degradation before it starts. For those of us who frequent the politics board....it is a worthy struggle to remain composed at times, but for the most part we are civil.
It is amazing what an apology can do, and the respect that restraint can gain you.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

ARTelevision

tecoyah, I do agree with you there.

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create evolution

Mondak

Heh heh - whoops.

On a brighter note, trying to prevent my hero from getting trashed on the day of his death helped (is helping?) me come to terms with it. Maybe it messed up the board a little, but different people cope with loss in different ways. Thanks for helping me TFP. Grow on

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

perripken

Tis ok Mondak, I for one am over it! Once again, RIP Ronald Reagan.

__________________
And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

Chingal0

tecoyah and ART, I agree.

From the sounds of it, the politics forum is a place where you should only post if you are totally positive that your addition to the topic will not harbor any negative thoughts/actions/etc.

Now, I know that is not the truth, but it just seems that alot of fury comes out of the politics forum, and why is that? I don't believe that I've ever posted there, but I do read it often enough.. and frankly I don't feel the need to post- either because someone has already expressed how I feel, or I'm indecisive in my feelings on the topic... I'm not real sure where this is going..

The part on policing oneself also is an excellent idea, but I feel that most people already do that, and it just takes a few people that have little control over their emotions to make the topic flare.

Fin.

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"Eventually I became too sexy for my gym membership fee."

tecoyah

I would ask that you, PLEASE don't refrain from comment in TFpoiltics. The whole point of these forums, as far as I am concerned, is to understand the differing views we all have.
If anyone has the lack of judgement to give you grief for your opinion, PM a moderator....or myself for that matter. The individuals who Flame on this forum, generally are intellegent enough to listen to reason, and correct the offense.
The Mods have full plates I am sure....but they are more than willing to step in for the benefit of the community.
As far as the "Few" people....they don't last long, but are usually replaced within days, Think of it as entertainment.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha