Darkblack

Okay, here is the deal. My wife and I got into it last night. Basically she feels I don't do anything around the house. There is a basis of truth to this I will not lie. She works very hard at home along with going to school full time, working part time, and taking care of our 3 kids. She wants me to do things around the house and I can understand that. Here is where the problem comes in. I don't know what the hell to do! I mean I do the obvious like the dishes and picking up the kid’s toys but it is the crap like cleaning certain things that I just don't think about doing. I don't know why, maybe I am a moron or something but I just never think about cleaning stuff.

So, I have asked in the past for her to make me a list of stuff to do so I can make sure I do what ever it is that she wants me to do. This idea pisses her off. She should not have to tell me what need be done. Again, I agree with her here but well, she does have to tell me what needs to be done.

I have asked a few coworkers and found that they too are mentally challenged when it comes to figuring out what needs to be done around the house. So, I ask my TFP brothers and sisters this. Ladies, does your man do what needs to be done without a list? If not, do you make him a list? Do you think that you should not have to make him a list? Guys, are you feeling me? Do you need a list?

Cynthetiq

LISTS LISTS LISTS, I'm all about them. It's much easier to me to budget my time when I have one staring me in the face. I can calculate, reprioritize, lollygag, appropriately when I have a list.

If it's not on the list when I go to the grocery, I don't buy it.

as far as the house work is concerned... i want to make a list, but she doesn't want one...

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absorbentishe

You're not the only one getting yelled at. My wife was pissed at me for not doing something yesterday. It's something that I wouldn't normally do. I'm staying late at work today to avoid her. If you don't vacuum, dust, get the kids ready for bed, laundry, cook, dishes etc, I can't help you. My wife is a neat freak, and if one thing is out of place, god help us(my children and I).
If that somewhat helps, the list embedded that is.

Ripsaw

I don't need a list. I see that it needs doing, I get it done. Laundry gets done inbetween bouts of video games. Cooking gets done, by me, as soon as we get in the door. Mind you, my day starts at 7 and I get home at midnight or later, but I still have time to put something together. If you see hair stuck to the rim of the toilet, wipe it away. Empty the garbage when it gets full. Tidy up the stacks of Maxim you have lying around the house. Dusting gets done because I don't want my electronics to be shorted out by cat fur. Feeding the pets gets done because if you don't feed them, they die, and that would make her sad.

Basically, things get done because they make her not sad.


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rogue49

It's not about what you want to do,
it's about what they want you to do.

Redlemon

A list? Dude, I need a Palm handheld to remember what I'm doing next weekend. Of course I need lists.

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Batman976

Man, she's upset that you asked for a list? Come on! While it may be true that you should know what to do without one, I think the fact that you want to help should tell her something. If you're willing to do the work, she shouldn't have a problem helping you out with what to do.

(Says the single guy who rarely cleans his apartment.)

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SiN

nothing wrong with the fact that you just think/view things differently.

she should chill a bit and recognise that and be willing to make lists.

even better, she should make lists of *all* the options so that you then have the flexibility to choose
(and perhaps learn something about figuring out which things are priorities etc..)

do i make sense?

hope so. good luck.

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water_boy1999

I am with you brother! I need post-it notes at work, a Palm, Microsoft Outlook, and a wall calendar to keep my life in order. However, I am good at cleaning the stuff around the house because, being single, I want to impress anyone I might bring home.

glasscutter43

I live alone and I have to write myself lists all the time.

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Cynthetiq

the multiple choice list i love those

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Hard8s

Yeah I need lists. I suffer from a very bad case of C.R.S. (Can't Remember Shit)!

The wife ALWAYS rights down what she wants me to get from the store. I always right down things I need to do, cause if it isn't where I see it, it's going to get forgotten!

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Mephisto2

Lists?!

Sheesh dude... You shouldn't need lists to detail what needs to be done.

If something is lying around (on the floor, or out of place for example), then pick it up and put it away.

If something is dirty, clean it.

If something is untidy, then tidy it.

If something needs to be done, then do it.

Do you need a list for your own personal hygene?

a) Wash teeth
b) Shower
c) Wipe ass
d) Clean underwear/clothes
e) Wear clean garments
f) etc

You get the idea.


Alternatively, if you honestly and truly cannot think of these things (and God help you if this is the case), simply stop for a moment and think of what your wife does on a daily, weekly and (for some tasks) monthly basis. Imagine her cleaning up etc. What does she do? Then do that.

It's not that difficult.


Mr Mephisto

a2k

All of you anti-list people are missing a crucial detail about lists: IF IT'S NOT ON THE LIST, SHE CAN'T BE MAD THAT YOU DIDN'T DO IT. Lists are the best insurance $$$ can buy.

heyal256

This sums up my opinion on lists. Although I do need to add in the fact that you usually don't need a list for "normal" day to day things or common sense items, like break glass, clean up glass or get cut. I also find that lists help me to actually do some things that I "forget" to do... it also helps in procrastinating, "It's on the top of my list of things to do"

santafe5000

Sure do use list's. Makes it easier to remember what has to be done. Also, when you have done the project on the list and crossed it out, She can't come back on you, saying it wasn't done.

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Mael

lists? i don't need no steeking lists!!!

well, actually, i do. stuff like mowing the lawn, feeding the cats, taking out the garbage i remember, and just notice. but i don't really notice when the last time the carpet was vaccumed and if it needs it again. i don't notice things needing to be dusted, or if the curtains need to be cleaned. i notice the big normal things. otherwise, if it needs to be done by me, i have to be told about it or i won't think of it. lists are life savers.

Kaos

Cleaning duties that women think of are alot different that a man's idea of cleaning duties. Sure, every guy knows the basics like taking out the garbage, dishes, etc. But there is so much more a woman can think of to do to keep the home in her idea of clean.

She's shouldn't be offended about you asking for a list. It shows you want to do more to help around the house.

But, lists aren't necessary for the basics, they are necessary for the extra things that could be done.

onodrim

While I can't answer for the "man" part of the question, I can say that I really need lists. I have a very busy schedule, and its really easy to let tasks just slip through my fingers when I actually have the time to do them. I've found the only way for me to be sure to get everything done in a day that I need too, is to make a detailed list the night before. I plan out practically every minute, and its made a huge difference. For the whole ten minutes it takes to write up the list at night, I make up in hours of work I would otherwise use trying to recover from my extreme procratination. Make lists you new best friend, you won't regret it.

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Harshaw

Sounds like you are more than willing to do the chores, she ought to be willing to make the lists. Does she think you are asking for lists to be difficult?

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striker3303

I can't remember anything half the time, if not for a list I would be lost man. My memory is the equivelent of a 4 gig, with 128 RAM.

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Harshaw

That’s pretty harsh; two people living together are going to have major differences in what is considered clean or what is considered necessary. In order to keep a happy healthy household, the cleanliness needs to find the level of the person who cares about it the most. If someone wants it really clean they should be willing to spell out the little nooks and crannies that might not occur to a normal person. The place where I live has several rules about when to do what. Not because people are lazy, simply because we can't all agree on how clean to keep things.

Steph

I am living with a "list man" and I think you who need lists suck!

I'm not your mother! I shouldn't need to write a list and include "move your mother fucking socks and empty Coke bottles from the living room!"

Look around. Think. When was the last time you cleaned the bathroom? Swept the floor?

Where's the mess? Should my shit be lying in that corner?


The list is a cop out. Clean your shit up!

bundy

i only operate when i´ve got an decent list.
without one, when i´m shopping, i´m lost. i drift from aisle to aisle. wondering what to get... what looks nice...

without a detailed list of upcoming assignments i end up procrastinating and then end up under tremendous pressure at uni.

i´m a list man. and i´m proud.

but that doesn´t mean to say that i need one prepared for me.

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Harshaw

Maybe you are just neat freak and you should chill the shit out.

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BlueBongo

Ya know.. I'm kinda spoiled. I don't do enough around the house... phred does all of the work. I chip in once in a while but he's really the one that keeps the place clean. I guess with my lazy personality lately I've gotten bad about cleaning up the messes I make and keeping up on laundry/dishes/trash.. etc.

I suppose I take phred for granted sometimes like that.
But I love him to death anyway.. even though I forget to finish loading the dishwasher on my days off like he asks me too..

I think a list is a good idea though... especially if she has certain ways that she prefers things to be washed.. etc.

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Steph

You're my roommate, you're my lover who lives with me . . . I chill the shit out, I think you should clean up after yo' sorry self. You do it, you clean up after it.

I'm sorry you had to take such a bad attitude towards it but it has nothing to do with "men needing lists" as the thread suggested at the start. It's you living with someone else.

If you want to live by yourself - go to town, be a slob. If you live with others, respect them and clean up after yo' self.

lurkette

This issue was a major pain in the ass for ratbastid and me the first 3-4 years of our marriage.

I am a bit of a neat freak, so part of the solution was for me just to chill out a little.

However, what made me so upset about the request for a list was that it still made things ultimately my responsibility. I still had to think about it, and direct him, instead of just counting on him as a partner to just get things done. I thought ratbastid should just look at the house and see what needs doing - if it's messy, clean it up. Period. The fact is, until recently, he just didn't notice. If there weren't dirty dishes on the counter the kitchen was considered "clean" even if the counter had crumbs and stuff on it and there was soup baked to the top of the stove, and the dirty dishes were in the sink and not in the dishwasher. So we reached a compromise. He has tried harder to notice things, I've agreed to make lists and be the chief executive officer at home, and he just does what I ask him. And really, as we did this more often he just got into the habit of noticing and after a while I didn't need to make the list any more, he just saw what needed doing. It just took learning what was expected and getting some practice at noticing things.

Also, one place to start is to think "how would she want this to look?" when you see a room.

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wwcd101

Men tend to think in a focused way. Women think more broadly. This difference is at the root of a lot of confusion and unhappiness in relationships.

"The list" is simply a tool, like the spear or the axe, designed by men, to help survive in the wild (bridge the communication gap).

Thanks for listening.

Ashton

Rodney

Everybody's different. Some people need lists. Some don't. Some people see something dirty, and clean it. Some people look at something dirty, and don't see it at all. I call it the invisibility factor.

I don't see dirt; my wife doesn't see the piles of stuff that accumulate around her on tables and chairs. The only way I'll do what she wants, and she'll do what I want, is to make lists. Either that, or nag forever.

Your wife should wise up. The fact that you're even asking for a list shows that you want to do the right thing. She needs to mature a little and realize that you will _never_ be just like her -- and don't have to be.

Ganguro

That's the key to many relationships.. unfortunately it's human nature to try to dominate and control your environment. If you live with the person.. it's instinct to try to get them to do things your way; to make the environment suite your needs.

Peutetre is kinda a slob, Im a packrat.. I find great order in chaos.. but only the chaos i create. My uniquely catagorized ordering system looks like "piles of junk" to her, and vice versa. This creates a constant struggle in our household. How can i clean the apratment, but have a corner full of piles of junk and not clean it.. Because my junk piles are my filing system..that's why!

The only way we solved this issue was to compromise and clean things together, If i wash the dishes, she dries them and puts them away the way she wants to. If i pick up dirty clothes and straighten the house, she does her darnest to keep it looking nice. If I do the laundry and folds the clothes, she puts them away. No one likes to clean the bathroom

viejo gringo

Since retireing, my primary jobs are running the seeper, and cleaning the oven...and when more than one other thing needs to be done, WE make list.

I make the list and leave it in a very open spot with a pencil beside it...as things get done I cross them off...if she thinks of something, she adds it...same with grocerys and my wine and beer...if I don't put it on her grocery list, it does not come home
from the store..

Mango

My wife nags at me for not doing house work. So I point out that if she wants to she can go cut and split & stack 6 cords of wood for the winter, finish the basement, install a new furnace, mow the lawn, fix the car (not house work but it counts), reno the bathroom, clear the snow from the driveway, feed the chickens, feed the cow, build fences, maintain fences, ......... the list seems endless. The truth is I hate doing dishes and cleaning up kids messes but if she ever had to do any of the stuff I do she would be at it every waking hour.

joe100

I discovered that I didn't do some things because I was concerned that I wouldn't do it the way that she likes to do things.

So we figured I was paranoid and that she needed to relax. So now, if I make dinner and it wasn't what she planned then... oh well.

If I prune the trees and she doesn't like how I did it the... oh well.

With this new understanding we are getting a better balance.

She doesn't want me washing her clothes.

peacy

List? No Thanx.
If I cannot remember it --> it's not important...

And if you cannot see what needs to be done, than maybe you're just a lazy ass and doesn't really want to notice those things...

jimk

i have a list all the time. i put shit i want to do on it, too, 'cause otherwise my stuff will get forgotten in the face of her immense list.

when it gets to be way too much, i tell the wife she's going to have to prioritize.......the entire list cannot be done. what really NEEDS to be done?

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Jasmar

Yeah I've been asking for a list since I was a kid I think most guys do need a list because we dont know what needs to be done what dosn't need to be done and how and when it needs to be done since we usually don't do it

tinfoil

Lists, that's what I have an ipaq for.

I use my tasks quite extensivly with up to 10 thigs on a go on average. My wife needs one too.

Ah well, I'll be cleaning and she will ask what needs done and I will tell her. All is good.

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MacGnG

YEP!

someone:"will you do ___ later for me"
me:"Write it down!"

most of the time people tell me to do things when im not even paying attention and they know this. when i am at the computer or watchin tv im not paying attention to what you are telling me to do.... thats y im watching tv or playing on the computer.

lists are good cause you do all the things on the list.

so when you are finished with the list just add her to the end and i'm sure she wouldn't mind