bartman

I am interested on everyones views, from across the pond. Here in the UK lots of people think we are too Americanised. What is your impresion from the US?

World's King

Bullocks?


Fuck no. We Americans should be more like the fuckin' Brits.

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snowy

Well, from what I saw while visiting London (and yes, I realise this limits my view of the UK supremely) people were not Americanised at all. In fact, if anything, they were anti-American. I saw an American flag lying on the ground in Portobello Road and I was treated unkindly by quite a few Londoners once they heard my accent. Perhaps your society is Americanised, but generally Americans are a little more friendly than Londoners are, at least I'd say the people of the Netherlands are most "American" if anything.

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Gatecrasher

To those who make those kinds of arguments, the extreme rebuttal would be:

THEN STOP doing whatever it is that makes you Americanised. What's stopping you!!??? Stop listening to Britney Spears (American artists seem to make up at least half of the top 40 music charts where ever I travel around the world)... stop eating McDonald's (There are often more of them in a square mile in a foreign capital than here in the US).... stop drinking Coca-Cola and sodas!!! (and go back to drinking tea!)..

While you're at it... invent something new... invent something of your own... and if it's good enough, we'll want it over here!

Really.... people have the free will to choose how they live!!!... and it just happens to be, that at this moment in history, American culture is preferred by very large numbers of people. The history of America (melting pot of immigrant cultures, the laws that fostered innovation, capitalism, competition, motivated immigrant entrepeneurs) has resulted in American products being successful.

Those people's claim is part of the whole underlying anti-American thing... and that's a whole other issue.

bartman

I asked the question to create a discusion, but I am extremely pro US in my polotics. But, I think we have to look at some of the negatives to US culture as well.
I see it as an embracing of greed and excess. The use of natural rescources by the 250m americans is something like 25% of world consumption! This cannot continue.
Please dont label me as anti american, as I support the recent action in Iraq, and love traveling in the states.

sngx1275

bart - I won't label you as anti-american but please do not bring environmental issues into this, if you just look at that there are limitless slants you can put on it. I put a very negative slant on it towards the EU for CO2 output for the sake of defending the US in an argument on another forum I'm a member of. Many people look purely at energy consumption and not the productivity that comes from it. While our methods over here may not be the most efficient they are the most cost effective and until there is an extreme demand otherwise that will not change. Well its 4:47 am and I've been drinking all night so I don't want to continue further and make any more of an ass out of myself. Point is that you can argue contributions to the world just as well as you can consumption of the world.

as far as my view on europe - I've never been over there, I'd like to go sometime, and I have many good friends I have met online that live in various countries over there. Met them all on techspot.com and got to know them either as fellow moderators or as friends in our irc channel.

Gatecrasher

A lot of this comes down to values and people's perception of humans and mankind... for example, I think that many liberals and peace protester types are too naive. There is evil in the world that must be dealt with force.

So, depending on one's perspective, greed, excess, consumption, etc., are do not have to be inherently wrong. If anything, "greed" drives people to work harder.

A study was once done by an economist, and in the study, they surveyed people all around the world asking what they wanted. A poor farmer in a poor country said he wanted a pair of cows. A middle class American said he wanted a powerboat. A middle class person in a former soviet nation said he wanted a car. The conclusion of the study was that people all around the world want around "20% more"... and once they had it, they wanted another 20%.

Regarding natural resource consumption... first of all, the consumption is largely proportional to the actual production of the United States (of products for the entire world).

Secondly, what would be done with the natural resources if the US stopped consuming them? NOTHING. The governments and cultures of many other nations simply do not facilitate productivity. Look, there is ENOUGH food to feed the world! it just can't be delivered...

Also, that statistic of the US using 25% of total consumption is deceiving. It's deceptive cause-and-effect logic. Michael Moore style logic.

bartman

good point, but if the rest of the world became americanised, then my point is still valid. I think there must be a way of life that doesnt push people into consuming more and more all the time. Eat less, walk to work etc...

sngx1275

yes your point is valid if the rest of the world does becomes "americanized" but I don't see that that can happen in the consumption area. All the EU countries have this Kyoto protocol thing that the US didn't sign, that forces those countries to adhere to those environmental standards, so in that respect you are in the clear. The US will and is becomming more environmental friendly but the conversion from where we were to where we want/need to be is a slow one. To make it any faster would cripple our already bad economy.

bartman

all that happens is that the polution moves out to poorer countries. what is realy needed is to stop population growth world wide. but that is another topic!
thanks for your views.

sngx1275

how does the pollution move to poorer countries? I saw a study somewhere where the air quality is better after it leaves the US than when it enters just because of the amount of trees and vegatation. Poor countries.... Mexico - they do a shitload of pollution - look at Mexico City. Pollution that comes out of the US would be dropped as acid rain in the ocean. Acidic water hitting the ocean would be neutralized by the carbonates in the water. And with this supposed global warming more carbonates would thrive, creating more basic water, further neutralizing the acidic water.

No I'm not pulling this out of my ass (not trying to sound like a prick here either) - graduate this May with a BS in Geology and Geophysics with an emphasis in Groundwater and Environmental Geochemistry. (and that wasnt' trying to impress anyone - more just justify that I have somewhat of a background in this area)

Nad Adam

Maybe London but the rest of Britain seems like a third world country if you look at how people live and the industry which hardly have had an update since before WWI.

Seriously, I don't have anything to back this up.

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BubblegumTeflon

The british should stay their dodgy british selves, without their perspective we wouldn't have shows like Black Adder and the Monty Python people. If there's anything they can get right every time, it's "humour".

Nad Adam

Yeah. Brittish humor, don't forget Red Dwarf...

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bartman

you know the best "British humor" is in The Simpsons! If you see how the simpsons is scripted it's the same as all the great Brit shows like Fawlty Towers, Blackadder etc. ie. the script is read by the cast and rewriten over and over to get the most gags.
expensive and time consuming but its the best way to get a quality show

ratbastid

There's also the cultural aspect, aside from economy and environment.

When I've visited the U.K. I was delighted to discover all the cultural differences. People think of themselves differently in different cultures, behave in different (sometimes unexpected) ways. I say that having a multitude of cultures makes us richer as a WORLD. One of the harms I see in "americanization" is a cultural homogenization that trends toward the lowest common denominator.

rsl12

if it makes any difference,

the nature of globalization is that, with expanded economic opportunity, a certain degree of homogenation is necessary. in a globalized world, the movement toward a single culture is inevitable. in all parts of the world it is now possible to find people who speak english, who have access to the same music and technology (relatively, in comparison to all other periods in history). that the culture adopted was American is somewhat arbitrary. the most powerful nation always has the most influence on its neighbors. are people upset that the english language was latinized (or gallicized) when the normans came over?

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Liquor Dealer

While there are many similarities between us as in US and them, it is a cultural similarity based on close heritage and nothing else. If you have ever traveled to England, and by England I mean anywhere other than London, then you will see similarity. Going to London is like going to NYC and thinking you've seen America. England and the US have similarities but there is nothing even close to the sameness that you see in some parts of Canada and all of Australia. Hell man! they don't even speak American in England - whatever that is that they speak is very difficult to understand. I don't know what language that is that is spoken in England but I can guarantee it isn't American. When we went to Europe England appeared to be more foreign than did many other countries. We do share common beliefs with England at times and have always depended upon each other in times of need. Once past times of need most of the closeness disappears.

splck

The Brits have way better beer than Americans...please leave it that way.

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sapiens

I had never thought about it from that perspective. I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree (I don't know enough to take a stand), but your comment made me think. Thanks!

bullgoose

You Brits are pretty much OK, but I wish you'd learn to speak English.

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4thTimeLucky

Normally I'm a patriotic Brit up for a bit of America-bashing anytime.

But I do admire America for their service culture and good oral hygiene.

If anyone ever mentions I said this, it will be denied outright.

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james t kirk

I don't know about the oral hygiene bit, but i would agree with the american service culture.

I would have to say that in the US, they treat customers much better than most places, including Canada. But the Restaurants tend to give you the cheque before you know what's happening.

vermin

Yes, it can.

Two words: Nuclear fucking weapons.

But seriously, what's a third world peasant going to do with his share of the world's natural resources? Other than growing just enough food to feed his family. I agree with the idea that productivity needs to be considered when comparing consumption rates.

Oh, yeah, to address the original question: Hell no, let the brits be brits, the americans be american, the french be french, the germans be germans, the...(you get the idea).

BTW isn't that spelled Bollocks?

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bundy

from an Aussie point of view...
well, if you poms were more like the americans, would that mean you'd stop playing cricket and rugby - and start playing baseball and gridiron?
hope not - who would we turn to to beat?
and what would happen to Neighbours if the brits gave up their obsession for that shitty street in Melbourne for say, that Friendly apartment in New York?

imo, NO the British should not be more American.

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greytone

Maybe I am coming to this late, but what does it mean to be "Americanized?"

It seems to me that this usually means the spread of "pop culture" and that has a tendency to have a negative conotation. I don't see this kind of Americanization as a good thing, but don't blame the people behind the counter with the paper hats if there is a 3 hour wait for a Big Mac or a 2 piece Original Recipe that cost 3 times what it should because of public demand.

On the other hand, I really believe that the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence are among the most important documents in history and they outline the best form social contract anyone has come up with yet. The fact that so many constitutions around the world are based on ours is a good form of "Americanization"

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PataQ

*refrains himself from commenting, but registers the fact he read the thread*

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Easytiger

On a related note...a few years ago, Courtney Love was in Australia, touring with Hole. She was apparently expecting Australians to be more like the English, and was surprised to see that we were relaxed and permissive people. She decides to let the crowd know how she feels by getting on the mic and saying:

"I thought you guys would be like the English, but you're cool, you're like Americans!"

Stony silence from the crowd.

The moral of the story is that people of any nation are influenced by many cultures, but what we really want is our own culture.

james t kirk

Roars with laughter.........

Macheath

I say this exchange on fark today and thought it was cute:

I love the way some Americans can't get their head around the spelling thing. "Hyuk, Hyuk, you can't spell good, there's only one right way and that's our way.

Hell, sometimes we deliberately switch over to American spelling just to indulge Americans. It's so sweet and naive.