Posing a Question - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kramus · 02-09-2011, 07:46 AM

I'm interested on hearing different takes on this situation. Not a quickie first post, bear with me.

My Lady is interested in this situation because there is a primal triggering of reaction she is investigating in herself, coupled with a clear divide in reaction to similar situations along male/female lines.

The story:

I have a minor presence in a model/photography/artist site. No real interaction, just have a small bio and half a dozen pieces in a portfolio. Recently a newbie young female model posted on my page that if I was ever looking for a model I should contact her. I checked her portfolio - a few images, non-nude, of a long, strong looking, very striking young lady. So I posted back telling her she has just the sort of look that works well with what I do, it would be cool to work with someone like her, thank you for your interest.

So a short while later I get a longer message telling me she has just moved into my city and wondered when I was free. She asked how I work - do I take reference pics and draw from the figure? So I tell my Lady about our ramped up communication, and how I think it would be nice to work with someone like the young woman. My biggest concern was that I didn't know how the model would react when told I would only pay with a small drawing and any digital reference pics I'd take.

Another communication from the young woman - she is totally cool with the way we could deal together. She loves my site, my creatures, the connections of humans with the earth that I explore. Would I use her back story, capturing some of her personal journey, as a collaborative venture? I respond that it would be intriguing to filter her as the model through my sensibilities as the artist and see what comes of it.

The reason I post:

My Lady is unsure of how to respond to this. Something about having an attractive young stranger show up at our house in the middle of the day while my Lady is at work, probably posing nude for hours as directed while I photograph and draw her - something about that situation makes my Lady feel just a wee bit odd.

She says it isn't a jealous feeling. More of a primal, woman wanting to protect what she has with her man feeling. She knows I would not pursue any casual contact, and it is very unlikely that a lovely young woman would encourage a heavier, late-middle-aged stranger to get frisky. My Lady is bothered in a way that intrigues her, this visceral feeling that wells up when considering the situation, or thinking of me being turned on by a young hottie. She compared it to her own situation, where she often sees men nude at work. The difference is that the men she sees in her context as a cancer physician are usually much older, out of shape and terribly ill with a horrible disease.

My Lady asked me how I might feel if she were about the house with some young tradesman who was virtually naked while I was away. My first reaction was that I would be concerned for her safety. If that was a non issue I wouldn't be bothered. I told her a story about my ex and an electrician who really made her horny while I was at work. I was able to enjoy the fact that my ex had a nice few days being thrilled by the sight of her stud climbing ladders and crawling around the floorboards wearing not much at all in the summer heat, and then using her stoked heat on me at night

So in summary, the difference in reactions are that my Lady is threatened in a primal way (not a jealous way) by my situation. I would probably be more concerned for her safety but not threatened myself if our positions were reversed. And a corresponding difference is that when we are out I will point out men she may find attractive so she can enjoy them, but she won't point out attractive women to me except to express anger at their revealing mode of dress.

If you've made it this far I applaud you.

Any thoughts any one? About any of this? Inquiring minds and all that.

amonkie · 02-09-2011, 08:11 AM

This is really a delving question.

For me the boundaries lie in the space of professional and personal lives.

Is there was an absolute defined space in your house seen as your studio and place to do work? If all nudity were confined to that space I would probably honestly be less than thrilled about the prospect due to the fact that it someone else nude in my home.

That feeling would be tempered though, by respect for your creative juice and the willingness to allow my partner to explore themselves in a fulfilling way. I think in this way it would also equate to her exposure at work - it is a specific setting away from home, for a specific purpose.

I am not a jealous person at all, but I am extremely possessive of my personal space. If it is contaminated by people that I have not expressly allowed in, it no longer remains my sanctuary.

LordEden · 02-09-2011, 08:35 AM

Setup a webcam so she can log in and make sure you aren't painting a horizontal sunrise with the nubile young girl. I'll even help set it up after I see head shots of the young girl, for reference purposes only.

*****

Call it what you want, biological function, mate preference, whatever, still looks like jealousy to me. She might not want to call it that, but I think in this situation it is.

Jealous is a weird thing, as a non-jealous person I almost view it as a unknown emotion, something I just can't relate too. I have seen both sides of jealousness in Exs, from the "You just looked at that girl in the mall, YOU ARE FUCKING AROUND ON ME, I KNOW YOU ARE!" to the "Hey, hey, look at the ass on that one, want me to go talk to her for us?"

The only thing I can say is just talk to her and try to stay within her bounds of comfort. You might loose a chance to work with this model, but save a relationship. You maybe comfortable with her being around a hot male carpenter, but what you feel in this situation doesn't really matter. It's all about her and I don't know if it is a good idea to try and convince her not to be threatened.

Personally, if she feels threatened, easy back from it. That or have her meet said lady/girl/model/thing, might help with the fears.

amonkie · 02-09-2011, 08:38 AM

Maybe it might be best to pass on this specific lady model for now but use it as an opportunity to discuss and explore your boundaries?

From my perspective as a female, that would tell me that someone was absolutely more concerned with me being OK with it, and taking the time to flesh things out instead of honing in on that 1 person despite my discomfort.

Ourcrazymodern? · 02-09-2011, 08:57 AM

I think jealousy is primal, so I don't understand that distinction. May I assume your Lady knew what your occupation entailed before you got involved? This is the first time you've had a model over to the place you share? You describe your lady as thoughtful.
Compassionate negotiation is in order. If she can't tolerate the circumstance I'd say you must find another venue.

bagatelle · 02-09-2011, 12:13 PM

I think this is tricky, because in your profession you choose your client/partner, when your Lady does not pick her patients, I assume. Your work requires sort of liking to the "object" and using imagination. I can see how this may worry your Lady.

If you really want to use this model, maybe LordEden's ideas are worth considering. Have them meet each other. I'm not sure what to say about the webcam. Do you have to make sure, proper contracts are made about the content and use of photos and filming?

Fremen · 02-09-2011, 07:56 PM

Would a third person to act as a chaperone be something your lady would feel comfortable with?

Charlatan · 02-09-2011, 08:14 PM

For some reason, this made me laugh: "She compared it to her own situation, where she often sees men nude at work. The difference is that the men she sees in her context as a cancer physician are usually much older, out of shape and terribly ill with a horrible disease."

Maybe she's just pissed that you get a hottie and she get's the above...
**********

I think it's totally acceptable that she should be uncomfortable with the scenario you describe. I think I know you well enough that you would never make this happen if she wasn't comfortable with things. In the end, it's up to her. She can either live with and come to accept or overcome her discomfort *or* just say no.

Perhaps you could suggest that the first session happens while she is at home. She doesn't need to be in the session, just puttering around upstairs.

kramus · 02-10-2011, 05:26 AM

Thanks for input, folks. First off, after another communication w the model red flags went up and my Lady & I decided to put this one on hold for now. It looks like the young lady is a bit of a borderline personality who is looking to use her body and my exploration of her personal journey artistically as a form of therapy. As my Lady put it, she doesn't want to come home some day to find our dog in a pot on the stove. So that's that.

The suggestions of web cams and chaperones and such - they are well meant but not really where I was going when I made the post. I was more interested in what differences in attitude and response a man and a woman would have in such a situation. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has had any sort of similar situations in their own lives.

It is true that my Lady has known I've always been interested in art, the female form, and utilizing that form as part of my interpretive tool kit. Just like I've always known she has been handling naked men as part of her career path. Neither of us are concerned that the other will do anything beyond our personal boundaries, and transparency is always part of our relationship. I may have another opportunity arise in future, and if the model seems stable and genuine it will work out differently.

PonyPotato · 02-10-2011, 05:52 AM

Yeah, honestly, I was going to say something about the model contacting YOU and wanting to turn this artistic endeavor into something about her was somewhat of a red flag. I'm glad you recognized further signals and put it on indefinite hold.

LordEden · 02-10-2011, 07:32 AM

Just thought I'd clarify, my suggestion of a webcam was a joke. If it ever got to that point, you shouldn't have done it in the first place.

You know, "Hurr hurr I wanna see her naked, hurr hurr."

It's not funny when I type it out like this.

kramus · 02-10-2011, 08:19 AM

Hey Lord, I knew your post was done in that spirit

I know fer sure that if this question had come up in a "chat" context (either online or 3D) that particular riff would have gotten a lot of play and some pretty funny comments would spring forth.

But I also know some folks felt that a "moderator" of some sort was a possible way to deal with what may arise from such a situation as the one I'd laid out, and I wanted to make it clear that there was no need for that element. Possibly for someone else in a slightly different context it would be just what the situation calls for - but not for me, not this time.

mixedmedia · 02-10-2011, 08:27 AM

well, its possible that your lady was picking up on the impending strangeness without being fully aware of it - woman's intuition and all.

it might be different next time with the right model.

Cimarron29414 · 02-10-2011, 08:30 AM

Eden, I thought it was funny. I was going to offer to be boom operator.

kramus, as a guy who has an economic need for you to draw a young hottie in fine detail, I say screw the old lady's feelings!

You know I keed!

Having looked through your published work several times, don't think I've ever absorbed a sexual connotation from a piece. The nudes have always felt bound in the context of celebrating that which walks our earth. It seems to me you are completely capable of being in the presence of one of these creatures and recording it through your eyes without swapping fluids. Humans are strange creatures and new feelings will always perplex us. I suppose it's a compliment for your lady to place such a value on you and your place with her. At least this experience opened up the dialog to prepare you for the next one. However, if you are going to pass on all the crazy models, you might need cataracts surgery by the time you find a sane one to draw. I'm just sayin', models aren't usually known for their grounded humility. Maybe that's the rationale for getting an offsite studio. It keeps the manor safe from rabbit boilers.

bagatelle · 02-10-2011, 10:59 AM

lol, I shouldn't think so literal...

Hopefully that doesn't make me seem more like the serious bunny boiler type person...

Yet... thought of the webcam could be further processed: viewing them while at work might be uplifting entertainment for your Lady's cancer patients... on widescreen in the waiting room and at the treatment etc...

02-09-2011, 07:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
kramus loving the curves Location: my Lady's manor	Posing a Question I'm interested on hearing different takes on this situation. Not a quickie first post, bear with me. My Lady is interested in this situation because there is a primal triggering of reaction she is investigating in herself, coupled with a clear divide in reaction to similar situations along male/female lines. The story: I have a minor presence in a model/photography/artist site. No real interaction, just have a small bio and half a dozen pieces in a portfolio. Recently a newbie young female model posted on my page that if I was ever looking for a model I should contact her. I checked her portfolio - a few images, non-nude, of a long, strong looking, very striking young lady. So I posted back telling her she has just the sort of look that works well with what I do, it would be cool to work with someone like her, thank you for your interest. So a short while later I get a longer message telling me she has just moved into my city and wondered when I was free. She asked how I work - do I take reference pics and draw from the figure? So I tell my Lady about our ramped up communication, and how I think it would be nice to work with someone like the young woman. My biggest concern was that I didn't know how the model would react when told I would only pay with a small drawing and any digital reference pics I'd take. Another communication from the young woman - she is totally cool with the way we could deal together. She loves my site, my creatures, the connections of humans with the earth that I explore. Would I use her back story, capturing some of her personal journey, as a collaborative venture? I respond that it would be intriguing to filter her as the model through my sensibilities as the artist and see what comes of it. The reason I post: My Lady is unsure of how to respond to this. Something about having an attractive young stranger show up at our house in the middle of the day while my Lady is at work, probably posing nude for hours as directed while I photograph and draw her - something about that situation makes my Lady feel just a wee bit odd. She says it isn't a jealous feeling. More of a primal, woman wanting to protect what she has with her man feeling. She knows I would not pursue any casual contact, and it is very unlikely that a lovely young woman would encourage a heavier, late-middle-aged stranger to get frisky. My Lady is bothered in a way that intrigues her, this visceral feeling that wells up when considering the situation, or thinking of me being turned on by a young hottie. She compared it to her own situation, where she often sees men nude at work. The difference is that the men she sees in her context as a cancer physician are usually much older, out of shape and terribly ill with a horrible disease. My Lady asked me how I might feel if she were about the house with some young tradesman who was virtually naked while I was away. My first reaction was that I would be concerned for her safety. If that was a non issue I wouldn't be bothered. I told her a story about my ex and an electrician who really made her horny while I was at work. I was able to enjoy the fact that my ex had a nice few days being thrilled by the sight of her stud climbing ladders and crawling around the floorboards wearing not much at all in the summer heat, and then using her stoked heat on me at night So in summary, the difference in reactions are that my Lady is threatened in a primal way (not a jealous way) by my situation. I would probably be more concerned for her safety but not threatened myself if our positions were reversed. And a corresponding difference is that when we are out I will point out men she may find attractive so she can enjoy them, but she won't point out attractive women to me except to express anger at their revealing mode of dress. If you've made it this far I applaud you. Any thoughts any one? About any of this? Inquiring minds and all that. __________________ And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

02-09-2011, 08:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	This is really a delving question. For me the boundaries lie in the space of professional and personal lives. Is there was an absolute defined space in your house seen as your studio and place to do work? If all nudity were confined to that space I would probably honestly be less than thrilled about the prospect due to the fact that it someone else nude in my home. That feeling would be tempered though, by respect for your creative juice and the willingness to allow my partner to explore themselves in a fulfilling way. I think in this way it would also equate to her exposure at work - it is a specific setting away from home, for a specific purpose. I am not a jealous person at all, but I am extremely possessive of my personal space. If it is contaminated by people that I have not expressly allowed in, it no longer remains my sanctuary. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

02-09-2011, 08:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	Maybe it might be best to pass on this specific lady model for now but use it as an opportunity to discuss and explore your boundaries? From my perspective as a female, that would tell me that someone was absolutely more concerned with me being OK with it, and taking the time to flesh things out instead of honing in on that 1 person despite my discomfort. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

02-09-2011, 08:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I think jealousy is primal, so I don't understand that distinction. May I assume your Lady knew what your occupation entailed before you got involved? This is the first time you've had a model over to the place you share? You describe your lady as thoughtful. Compassionate negotiation is in order. If she can't tolerate the circumstance I'd say you must find another venue. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

02-09-2011, 12:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	I think this is tricky, because in your profession you choose your client/partner, when your Lady does not pick her patients, I assume. Your work requires sort of liking to the "object" and using imagination. I can see how this may worry your Lady. If you really want to use this model, maybe LordEden's ideas are worth considering. Have them meet each other. I'm not sure what to say about the webcam. Do you have to make sure, proper contracts are made about the content and use of photos and filming? __________________ Life is...

02-09-2011, 07:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	Would a third person to act as a chaperone be something your lady would feel comfortable with? __________________ Google

02-09-2011, 08:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	For some reason, this made me laugh: "She compared it to her own situation, where she often sees men nude at work. The difference is that the men she sees in her context as a cancer physician are usually much older, out of shape and terribly ill with a horrible disease." Maybe she's just pissed that you get a hottie and she get's the above... ********** I think it's totally acceptable that she should be uncomfortable with the scenario you describe. I think I know you well enough that you would never make this happen if she wasn't comfortable with things. In the end, it's up to her. She can either live with and come to accept or overcome her discomfort or just say no. Perhaps you could suggest that the first session happens while she is at home. She doesn't need to be in the session, just puttering around upstairs. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-10-2011, 05:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
kramus loving the curves Location: my Lady's manor	Thanks for input, folks. First off, after another communication w the model red flags went up and my Lady & I decided to put this one on hold for now. It looks like the young lady is a bit of a borderline personality who is looking to use her body and my exploration of her personal journey artistically as a form of therapy. As my Lady put it, she doesn't want to come home some day to find our dog in a pot on the stove. So that's that. The suggestions of web cams and chaperones and such - they are well meant but not really where I was going when I made the post. I was more interested in what differences in attitude and response a man and a woman would have in such a situation. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has had any sort of similar situations in their own lives. It is true that my Lady has known I've always been interested in art, the female form, and utilizing that form as part of my interpretive tool kit. Just like I've always known she has been handling naked men as part of her career path. Neither of us are concerned that the other will do anything beyond our personal boundaries, and transparency is always part of our relationship. I may have another opportunity arise in future, and if the model seems stable and genuine it will work out differently. __________________ And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

02-10-2011, 05:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
PonyPotato Soaring Location: Ohio!	Yeah, honestly, I was going to say something about the model contacting YOU and wanting to turn this artistic endeavor into something about her was somewhat of a red flag. I'm glad you recognized further signals and put it on indefinite hold. __________________ "Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark." — Henri-Frédéric Amiel

02-10-2011, 08:19 AM	#12 (permalink)
kramus loving the curves Location: my Lady's manor	Hey Lord, I knew your post was done in that spirit I know fer sure that if this question had come up in a "chat" context (either online or 3D) that particular riff would have gotten a lot of play and some pretty funny comments would spring forth. But I also know some folks felt that a "moderator" of some sort was a possible way to deal with what may arise from such a situation as the one I'd laid out, and I wanted to make it clear that there was no need for that element. Possibly for someone else in a slightly different context it would be just what the situation calls for - but not for me, not this time. __________________ And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

02-10-2011, 08:27 AM	#13 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	well, its possible that your lady was picking up on the impending strangeness without being fully aware of it - woman's intuition and all. it might be different next time with the right model. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

02-10-2011, 08:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	Eden, I thought it was funny. I was going to offer to be boom operator. kramus, as a guy who has an economic need for you to draw a young hottie in fine detail, I say screw the old lady's feelings! You know I keed! Having looked through your published work several times, don't think I've ever absorbed a sexual connotation from a piece. The nudes have always felt bound in the context of celebrating that which walks our earth. It seems to me you are completely capable of being in the presence of one of these creatures and recording it through your eyes without swapping fluids. Humans are strange creatures and new feelings will always perplex us. I suppose it's a compliment for your lady to place such a value on you and your place with her. At least this experience opened up the dialog to prepare you for the next one. However, if you are going to pass on all the crazy models, you might need cataracts surgery by the time you find a sane one to draw. I'm just sayin', models aren't usually known for their grounded humility. Maybe that's the rationale for getting an offsite studio. It keeps the manor safe from rabbit boilers. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." Last edited by Cimarron29414; 02-10-2011 at 08:32 AM..

02-10-2011, 10:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	lol, I shouldn't think so literal... Hopefully that doesn't make me seem more like the serious bunny boiler type person... Yet... thought of the webcam could be further processed: viewing them while at work might be uplifting entertainment for your Lady's cancer patients... on widescreen in the waiting room and at the treatment etc... __________________ Life is...