Baraka_Guru

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...FozjQD9ELIKV80

Well, this is interesting. I thought it a big step for the U.S. to have gone as far as medical use of maijuana, but now here we have a November vote on whether to allow recreational use.

In Canada, we've had debates over "decriminalization," which would make it so carrying over a certain amount of the drug was illegal. I'm actually quite uncertain of the legal issues surrounding possession, but from what I've heard, small amounts will be somewhat tolerated. It's not uncommon to smell the smoke in public spaces in Toronto.

What do you think of the legalization of recreational use? Do you think it could lead to problems? Do you buy the "gateway drug" argument? Do you think it should be a controlled substance?

I believe that restrictions should be set as to how much you are allowed to carry on you, meaning that if you are carrying over a certain amount, then you could very well be trafficking. What this means is that I think fewer people should go to prison as users. I know the War on Drugs in the U.S. is largely responsible for the world-leading incarceration rates. I can't see how pot smokers are a menace to society.

It will be interesting to see how this vote turns out. What do you think? Is California ready for this? Is the U.S.? How will the Feds factor in this?

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—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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Terrell

I think it should be legalized. I don't think that there should be "consensual crime" laws in the first place. (Prostitution, gambling, drug use, being examples of consensual crimes)

Willravel

I'm voting for legalization simply because there's no legitimate reason to have cannabis criminalized. I may be a liberal, but I don't like unnecessary laws. Is California ready for this? Sure. A majority of Californians seem to support the idea, at least. What I'm curious to see is the eventual attack adds against the legislation, a la Prop 8. Very soon there will be blatant, bold-faced lies spread across the California media landscape by interested parties about how marijuana leads to child rape and Satanism and makes you fat. I was actively involved in fighting against Prop 8, but looking back I don't think I fought hard enough. I'm fighting tooth and nail for this one, as practice for the next time something important like equal rights appears on the ballot.

As far as I'm concerned, legalize it, tax it, and smoke em if you got em. I can't wait to run over to Whole Foods to pick up a dime sack of high quality organic weed to relax after work or on the weekend.

Hektore

I would imagine certain industries, like tobacco, would be very happy if this passed. Once legalized it's only another small step to legalize mass production and huge profits. Imagine the tax revenue if that happened.

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Redlemon

Will pot lose some of its allure if it is legalized? (I've never smoked anything, but I'm curious about the perception.)

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Plan9

Numerous studies have debunked Anslinger's "Gateway Drug" crap. I just don't get how you decriminalize it based on quantity and expect things to be much different. Cops are still going to waste their time searching people for drug violations, even after the law. You'll have less guys in prison, I guess.

I'd imagine employers will still engage in drug testing. I don't want the newly legal potheads doing anything that involves quality control or safety.

Common sense: If legalized, it needs to be lumped into the "booze" category and not the "cigarettes" category as far as use time acceptability.

Research has shown that, within a lifetime, it may even stay the same. The "public education" regarding the drug is pretty strong one way or the other. Those who currently engage in its use will continue, those who don't probably won't. It'd be like legalizing sex in public... the 'occurrence of the activity probably wouldn't change a lot because of the current public perception is that it is still taboo. Give it a generation or two to see any change.

I'd like to think that people would refrain from it because it's unhealthy. Look at how tobacco use has declined over the last 50 years.

...

I'm all kinds of mixed up about this. From a law enforcement perspective, if they can unfuck it so the police aren't wasting valuable patrol hours chasing and caging these types... I'm for it. Marijuana, as a drug, isn't incredibly criminogenic. Rumor has it that it makes hungry slothlike giggle-people.

Generally speaking, I dislike schedule drugs and people that use them, partly because the negative stereotypes have always been reinforced.

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Whatever you can carry.

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Shauk

Honestly it's a drug I've never tried.

I'm not a CA resident (yet) but I would vote for legalization given the research that has been put in front of me as to it's minor level of health risks vs the dangers of alcohol (which I also feel people are free to indulge in responsibly)
Along with the crime and economic impacts of legalization, the argument to pass it is very very solid.

besides, I really hate the stoner culture, how they act like they're "sticking it to the man"

legalizing it would pretty much kill off that whole "omg im so cool cuz I smoke weed" culture over time I think.

I'm not sure how it would fly with drug testing. I mean people are free to drink and smoke and whatnot as it is now and maintain a job, I would wonder about the point of legalizing for many people if they had jobs that tested them for use which seems to stay in your system for a month or more.

Tully Mars

I'd vote for this in a heart beat. The tax revenue is only one side, the tax savings of not searching for and locking up pot smokers would be huge.

As for the gateway argument I call bull shit. I smoked before joining the Navy, never made me want to shoot smack. I used some after crushing my leg and foot several years ago, had an Oregon medical card from my doc. He said it would help with the pain. I was really looking forward to trying it again. Turns out it didn't do much for the pain and I honestly didn't like the stuff anymore. But I met people who swear it does help them with pain and other medical issues. I have no reason to believe their not being honest. Plus I really don't care if you toke up for recreational use, don't see how that's any of my business.

Bottom line- prohibition didn't work with booze and it isn't ever going to work with pot. Legalize it, stop harassing users and tax it. Society will be better off in the long run.

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ASU2003

Just imagine the increased tourism to CA if this passes.

yournamehere

Although I think it's a good idea, federal law will always trump state law. For a state with a huge budget crisis, I think they're wasting a lot of time and money even considering this.

As for the gateway drug theory - I don't buy it. But I also don't buy into the "Let's decriminalize everything" thought process, either. I think legalizing drugs like cocaine and meth would be insane.

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Lasereth

I'm all for it and I've never did any sort of drug. It's just completely illogical for it to be illegal.

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levite

OMG, I will support this initiative to my dying breath....

1. It's entirely irrational that weed is illegal: it is less harmful than either alcohol or tobacco, and those are both legal. There is really no evidence to support that smoking pot leads to heroin or other "hard drug" addiction. I know that I, for one, have smoked many a bowl in my time, and never once had a splinter of a grain of interest in heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine, or other such drugs.
2. It was originally made illegal for racist, classist, and economically oppressive reasons. It would be a restoration of justice to make it legal again.
3. Legalizing recreational marijuana would undoubtedly lead to the legalization of industrial hemp farming, which could make California a leading producer of environmentally friendly paper pulp, hemp textile production, hemp oil production, hemp plastics, and many other quality, sustainably produced materials. This would create jobs, attract investment monies to the state, and produce considerable business/industrial tax revenues.
4. Savings from not wasting police/corrections resources on arresting, trying, and locking up decent people who take a toke instead of having a martini or a shot of whiskey would save billions, and help unclog the court system, and help relieve prison overcrowding.
5. The world's fourth or fifth largest economy is in monumental fiscal crisis. Tax revenues from regulated pot sales would be huge. It would be insane not to take advantage of this previously untapped financial resource.
6. Weed kicks ass! 420, yo!

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Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Fly

imagine if.............like they are trying to vote in........you could have your own little garden plot,and have your veggies and spuds,maybe some rhubarb.........all growing right beside your organic pot plants.........damn that would be sweet.


no hassles for smokin' a jay. even sweeter........


tax the hell out of it,just like alcohol and tobacco.........and let's all move on.








i really,really like the garden idea.

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BASTARD

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Shauk

See, I never understood the association to "420"

all I know about 4/20 is that it was Hitler's birthday and the day of the columbine shooting.

Fly

......and this whole post is really good too........


nicely done bro....





---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

4:20 Shauk..........time to light up,many reasons and stories and BS as to why 4:20.......but that's spark it time baby

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BASTARD

SterlingStudios

Idyllic

I just think this will lead to the increased issues of bogarting, and by all means, that in itself should be illegal.

Gateway my ass, that's like saying kool aid is the gate way to absinthe. If California weren't so dry and cold, I would have never left but I prefer hot and sweltering, the sticky grows better there.

One day when I'm old with my curtain arms and my O2 tank, I will enjoy every sunset with a beer and some hand twisted perspective. Ah, the simpler life.

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Shauk

Measure to legalize marijuana will be on California's November ballot - latimes.com

Soros & Men's Wearhouse Founder, Zimmer both donating heavily for this.

big money guns ;p

Baraka_Guru

Wow, people putting good money behind this.

I wonder.....

....maybe if they legalize marijuana, more people will be laid back enough to allow gay marriage soon thereafter.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

But we have Canada for that.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

hunnychile

Just think of the tax money California could get to help them with their huge State Education problem!

And that's just the tip of the iceberg of major problems there in California...it's in big monetary trouble and they have to come up with a few solutions or the entire USA will continue to slide into that 3rd World status with it.

(remember when California was Number 1 in the USA for good grades, a high standard of SATs and promising futures for every kid - white, black, yellow or brown or rainbow?)

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ARTelevision

This will make the world a better place.

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Ourcrazymodern?

Marijuana is a gift from God. I'd trade my legal habits for it anyday.

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Pearl Trade

Surprised at the amount of pot users here. Huh. To me, pot users have always been stupid and lazy. I've never been proved wrong as of yet, I've never met a user I liked as a person. Not saying any of you on TFP are, I'm just saying I've never met anyone who doesn't exhibit bad qualities.

I think it would lose allure. Seems that some of the thrill in it is that it's illegal. Doesn't California have bigger problems? Like, having no money. That seems like a better place to start than legalizing marijuana. As old Arny said himself: "WE HAVE NO MONEY."

I don't see the appeal in it, but if someone else wants to do it then they can go for it. I can go either way about this, but I lean more towards keeping it illegal, as it makes (some) people stupid. I hate stupidity with a passion.

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Willravel

President Obama smoked pot and he beat a Clinton to get elected into the White House. Neither stupid, nor lazy be he.

Fly

whether you smoke it or not..........if you're stupid and lazy........then that's it,you're stupid and lazy.

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BASTARD

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LordEden

I am on the fence on this law. Yes, I've smoked my fair share of pot. I spent 5 years in a hazy cloud during my college years. I enjoyed it before it made my depression and anxiety worse.

That said... I'm not sure it should be legal. I know it's not a gateway drug, but I just seeing it as another excuse for people to be lazy. "Man, I'm stoned, I can't figure out/do that right now."

The people that know how to handle it? Good for you, but I see it as another way it will make the younger generations that much lazier and less motivated.

I don't like the fact we spend so much tax payer money to put people in jail over it either.

Again, I'm on the fence. I couldn't even tell you what I would vote on this law if I had the chance.

*****
That is very true fly and I agree with that. My main problem with it is, when does it become an "illness" like alcoholism has become? When do we start having people on disability (I know you can't get it because of drinking, but I personally know people on it because of drinking health problems they lied about) because they have smoked so much weed that they "Can't help it, I *can't* stop if I wanted too" crap we hear from heavy drinkers/smokers. When does it become another excuse for people to do nothing with their lives because of this now legal drug.

Yes yes, I know they are going to be that way on pills/booze/anything else, but I don't know why we should add something else to that list of legal items that they can blame their problems on.

Call me a negative nancy, but I see all the bad things that happen when this comes about.

I wish we could let people who could handle weed (or pills/booze for that matter) have access to it and keep those away that are just going to use it as an excuse to be shitty people all around. I know we can't do that, I just wish we could.

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snowy

Yep.

Guess what? I just made honor roll--again. And yes, I smoke on a daily basis.

I think it should be legal but with age restrictions, and I'm glad to see California leading the charge. If they succeed, I have little doubt that Oregon and Washington will follow.

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levite

I have to say, I have known quite a number of pot smokers, in every context of my life: when I was in community organizing and politics, I knew lots of politicos and organizers who liked to spark one up Saturday night instead of going out for drinks. When I was in the film industry, I knew plenty of successful producers, directors, cinematographers, and technical experts who smoked in their spare time. I have known pot smokers among my friends in education, and among my friends in the rabbinate. All were bright, motivated, and successful in their fields.

None used hard drugs. None were alcoholics. Most smoked a bowl or a jay or two with some friends, a couple of times a month, maybe once or twice a week, tops, for some people.

Sure, when I was in college, I knew some people who smoked all day, every day, and they were capable of some pretty monumental slackage. But most of them grew out of that phase of their lives, and cut down, and stopped slacking, and became more or less successful and productive people. Very few were actually content to just slack their lives away forever.

I smoke about once a week, and I am close to the top of my rabbinical school class; I have also been a very successful classroom teacher for years.

One can always run into a particularly slackish group of people. But I think that mostly, the whole "pot smokers are all hopeless slackers" thing is just a media stereotype.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

yournamehere

On a side note, The Arizona Senate today just approved a bill to put before voters in November to legalize (and heavily tax, of course) medical marijuana again. We voters approved it (back in '96, IIRC) once; but the wording of the bill did it in - it said it had to be prescribed by a doctor, which is illegal under federal law. This time around, it just says it must be recommended by a doctor. So I guess now we'll just need a note! No problem in my wife's case - she's already had at least three doctors recommend it for her chronic pain. Anyway, they're going to tax it both at the 5.6% state tax rate, and put a $20 per ounce "luxury tax" on top of it. That sucks, but it's better than nothing.

As I said earlier, I'm all for this. Just make sure (like Arizona didn't) that federal law doesn't supersede it.

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Charlatan

I agree with this.

I see it as no better or worse than alcohol consumption.

I do see an issue with regards to taxing it, when you start to factor in home grown weed. Will the tax collector see you as skirting the system?

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timalkin

..

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silent_jay

Legalizing it will make more pople drive impaired? I also doubt weed is to blame for kids being dumb or doing bad in school, but hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to keep thinking weed is bad.

Charlatan

I take it you will be advocating for the prohibition of alcohol as well?

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Walt

Does a cold beer taste any less awesome now that you're of age to buy it legally?

---------- Post added at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

You will have to excuse me. After staying up for 48 hrs, I tend to think in bullet points:

• You'd think that broke-ass California would be all for legalizing marijuana as it would make for a helluva source of tax revenue.
• As it is, money flows out of California and in to Mexico.
• Drugs and violence flow out of Mexico and in to California.
• Legalize marijuana, create a new industry/jobs, and suddenly everyone's buying American. And Papa Johns.
• If everyone's buying American, all those dick Cartels will have one less source of revenue.

Oh, and shit like this won't happen anymore.

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Calmer than you are...

Shauk

gotta say, making it to 31 posts before one of THESE came in, impressive.

Reese

I disagree. I think pot smokers need to fragrantly violate the law and show that smart, healthy individuals can engage in recreational use of marijuana with no harmful effects. I really don't think the law will ever get changed on a federal level until enough people let the government know they want to do it and that it being illegal is not a deterrent.

Marijuana does NOT cause tax evasion. If people are not properly paying their taxes, that is a completely separate issue.

Marijuana is not preventing drug syndicates from "streamlining their hard drug operations." If Marijuana was legalized and "made in the USA" so to speak, We wouldn't have to worry about pinching people importing it and we would be able to focus our attention on hard drugs. Not only that, but it'd really hurt the cartel's profits. It's not going to make them more violent than they already are. Legalization is not a positive thing for a drug lord.

Lastly, Marijuana does cause motor impairment but it also makes people very cautious. A marijuana smoker is much less likely to drive than someone under the influence of alcohol or a cell phone. This California law does not permit minors to smoke. It actually specifically states that it's illegal to smoke in the presence of a minor. Also, There is no reason to expect that more people would smoke if it were legal. Marijuana is legal for adults in the Netherlands and last time I checked it had about the same percentage of use as it does in the US.

Oh yeah, I don't smoke, and I probably wouldn't smoke if it were legal. If that matters..

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Walt

If anything, legalizing and regulating the sale of marijuana in a manner similar to the sale of alcohol would make it harder for school kids to get their hands on it. The guys at the ABC store ask for ID. Drug dealers don't.

I agree. Ilegally importing marijuana is profitable because it's, well, illegal. Because it's illegal, few people are willing to do it. Because few people are willing to do it, the demand will always outweigh the supply. Because the demand will always outweigh the supply, the guys supplying it illegally can charge whatever they want for it. If marijuana was made legal and grown locally, it would be offered at a much lower price and there would be no incentive for the Cartels to bother importing it. When that happens, a good chunk of our LEO's time, money and personnel would be freed up to focus on more serious matters.

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inBOIL

I'm sure there are some people for whom marijuana was the first drug on their road to shooting and snorting anything they can, but I think most of those people would have ended up on hard drugs regardless of whether they started out with weed.

Most of the country is downwind of California. World, get ready for a friendlier, mellower USA.

As for the taxing, isn't it legal to brew your own beer without paying taxes, so long as you don't distribute it? As long as you're taxing distribution, and not production, this shouldn't be terribly problematic. There will always be large numbers of stoners who can't be bothered to grow their own, or don't have a green thumb, or find themselves jonesing while away from home.

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IdeoFunk

There's places in the US where they're actually thinking about legalizing weed???? That blows my mind. I've always been under the impression that it was just a really big no-no down there. I'm not exactly sure how the law is defined up here. I believe it's actually not decriminalized, but in general you shouldn't get too much trouble from law enforcement depending on how the officer/judge is feeling and as long as you aren't carrying a large amount.... which I always thought was usually somewhere around a quarter of an ounce. I can't believe they're trying to decriminalize anything up to an ounce, that blows my mind.

Weeds totally alright and should definitely be decriminalized for many reasons. None less than the fact that it's just so ubiquitous and that we all live in the wonderful world of democracy. You think people who smoke weed are all idiots? Better not listen to any music*, look at any art, or read any literature. Anyways, I can't wait to see how this makes it through in CA. It'd be interesting to see what sort of support a referendum would have up here.......

*Note: I don't consider Country and Western music

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Wes Mantooth

Completely on board with legalizing it as well...go California!

I've always found it completely absurd that pot was ever made illegal first place and that fact that there is still a fight to legalize it in the 21st century is even more ridiculous. It should have been done decades ago.

EDIT: No I don't think pot will lose its appeal once its legalized. I don't know ANYBODY who cares weather its illegal or not, its about the effect and I don't see that changing if its legalized...well unless strict standards are put in place limiting its potency, then yes it might loose its appeal. I still love alcohol as much at 30 as I did at 16, in my case (and most people I know) it was never about "getting away with something", or feeling "bad ass" because I was breaking the law.

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