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View Poll Results: What makes us fat? | |||
Maybe We're Too Stressed | 27 | 50.94% | |
Maybe A Virus Is To Blame | 1 | 1.89% | |
Maybe The Temperature Is Just Right | 1 | 1.89% | |
Maybe It's All That High-Fructose Corn Syrup | 44 | 83.02% | |
Maybe Low-Fat Foods Made Us Eat More | 12 | 22.64% | |
Maybe We Take Too Many Drugs | 7 | 13.21% | |
Maybe We Were Doomed Before Birth | 13 | 24.53% | |
Maybe There's Too Much Pollution | 2 | 3.77% | |
Maybe We're Not Sleeping Enough | 21 | 39.62% | |
Maybe We Shouldn't Have Stopped Smoking | 5 | 9.43% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll |
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07-23-2008, 02:31 PM | #81 (permalink) |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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I think what lurkette was really getting at is that the economics of commodities in this country subsidized by the Farm Bill mean that less healthy calories are cheaper for people to buy and consume. Time-wise, these cheaper calories are also easier to procure. In parts of this country, especially in inner cities, it is hard to find affordable produce. NYC has done a great job of addressing this issue with the introduction of greenmarkets, and other places have as well; here, our farmers' market takes food stamps. However, a lot of markets aren't set up for that sort of thing, and furthermore, for the poor and already overweight, getting to a farmer's market over a grocery store nearby is not really feasible, especially if one has put in an 8-hour+ day. Is a poor person with a weight problem really going to put in the time and effort it takes to eat healthily (shopping at the farmer's market, spending $20+ a week on fresh produce, finding ways to cook said produce, prepping and cooking said produce) or are they going to go for the cheap box of macaroni and cheese that takes 20 minutes to prepare from start to finish? It does take a great deal of effort to buy, prep, and cook fresh food--even Rachael Ray takes a lot of short cuts in her 30 Minute Meals, and many of them are completely unreasonable if you're on any sort of budget.
Yes, a head of romaine lettuce is 99 cents here, but I know it's not the same price elsewhere, and it's certainly more expensive to purchase the romaine that's pre-washed and cut. We can insist all we want about personal willpower and responsibility, but the fact is that the economics of food in this country set people up to fail, depending on where they live.
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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau |
07-23-2008, 02:39 PM | #82 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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These things go hand in hand. You have to be disciplined and help yourself. At the same time, the infrastructure (grocery stores, healthy lunch menus) need to be in place as well.
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"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter |
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07-23-2008, 03:49 PM | #84 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Chicago
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Shesus and I found that eating most of our food from the produce section not only keeps us healthier, but it cut our monthly food bill drastically. Buying healthy, fresh food is actually cheaper than buying the processed food. Only, you can't microwave a salad. You actually have to make it. Well, even now there are pre-tossed salads in a bag. Aside from the afore-mentioned maladies that cause obesity, in today's society, I think it actually takes more effort to eat a lousy diet than it does to eat healthy. Now, on an entirely different front. People with eating addictions aren't going to get a damn bit of help simply by changing what they eat. They need to find the root of their addiction and deal with that, otherwise they will never get past the fact that their overeating is an addiction, not a conscious choice. There are people who do exercise, but eat so goddamn much it nullifies any benefit exercising gives them.
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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses |
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07-23-2008, 03:56 PM | #85 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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JJ, there are some places 9neighborhoods) that don't have grocery stores period. Hence, no produce.
__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter |
07-23-2008, 04:21 PM | #86 (permalink) |
Location: Iceland
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Quite true--West and North Philly are two places that I know of (from personal experience--measuring this exact phenomenon on a study of fresh produce availability in low-income Philadelphia) that are produce deserts, basically. The only fresh food I saw in those 100 or so grocery stores that I surveyed were onions, potatoes, and (usually old) tomatoes. And those were the "good" stores.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
07-23-2008, 04:32 PM | #87 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Here's one of the things that doesn't get talked about very much in the US. The average household spends roughly 9% of household income on food. This compares to 11% in the United Kingdom, 16% in France, 17% in Japan, 27% in South Africa and 53% in India. (These are numbers form 2004).
The US is able to do this largely because of the issues that onesnowyowl has raised around the Farm Bill and subsidies. The subsidies have produced a glut of produce such as corn and soy beans. This is not the corn of "corn on the cob" this is industrial corn and soy beans that are used as a supply of food for vast, industrialized cattle feedlots and the building blocks of processed foods. I have read somewhere that if you need 1500 calories a day to survive and you were to buy 1500 calories of fresh food vs. 1500 of processed foods you would spend approximately $1.50 on the processed and $4.00 on the fresh. (caveat... I am doing this from memory so the numbers might be off a bit, the point is the divide between the expense of fresh vs. processed). Processed foods are less healthy. The Farm Bill is about creating large quantities of cheap food and the US has been very successful at doing just this since the early 70s when the Nixon Administration made this a priority and altered the existing policy. One thing of note: I wonder how the drive to use the surplus corn for ethanol will effect food prices. Wait... Secret report: biofuel caused food crisis. It looks like it already has.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
07-24-2008, 06:42 AM | #88 (permalink) | |
My future is coming on
Moderator Emeritus
Location: east of the sun and west of the moon
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This is an interesting article that addresses some of these issues: eMJA: Obesity, law and personal responsibility Some highlights: "Personal choice will be influenced by the environment in which people are making that choice. 'People are more likely to exercise personal responsibility if they’re not expected to swim against a current of advertising and promotion.' " and "A spurious dichotomy: Despite all the controversy, personal responsibility and the wider community response are not on opposite sides of the fence, says Chris Reynolds. 'These two ideas are inextricably linked. One is necessarily supported and sustained by the other. The community must create the environment that maximises the potential for people to make healthy choices.' And Magnusson’s answer to that question from the floor about how the law can help reframe this debate? 'We can turn it around and say that, if we really want to deliver on autonomy or individualism, we need to introduce legislation that allows people full freedom of choice.' " This is a public health issue - it costs all of us billions of dollars. And it's not SOLELY the result of individual action...you can't separate people from the context in which they live. If you want to look at it as an issue of fairness, you're not asking people living in different circumstances to make the same choices. Healthy choices can cost more in time, distance, and money for those who live in communities where those choices are not planned for or incidentally convenient. If you want the situation to actually change, you have to admit that there is a utilitarian value in changing that context to enable or encourage choices that make people healthier and cost us all less money.
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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France |
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07-24-2008, 06:59 AM | #89 (permalink) |
We work alone
Location: Cake Town
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How would you explain lower rates of obesity in poorer countries than the US where people also do not have the convenience of healthy eating/lifestyle?
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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques |
07-24-2008, 08:08 AM | #92 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Chicago
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I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.
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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses |
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07-24-2008, 08:34 AM | #93 (permalink) | ||
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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I was surprised to find that Wikipedia actually now has an entry for the term "food desert": Food desert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The NYTimes search feature is still in beta so I had a bear of a time finding this article to share, so I hope you read it; I think it explains a lot in regards to just how the farm bill impacts how people in the United States of America eat: Food - Supermarkets - Obesity - Nutrition - Calories - Farmers - Agriculture - New York Times Quote:
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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau |
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07-25-2008, 05:19 PM | #94 (permalink) |
Minion of the scaléd ones
Location: Northeast Jesusland
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Maybe it's because we eat too much and don't move around enough (he said while drinking a coke and nibbling a pretzel in his chair in front of his computer....)
There is no other reason. The rest is all wishful thinking.
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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
07-30-2008, 10:14 AM | #95 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I didn't vote for any of those options. I wish Ustwo had weighed in on this post. The culprit is an overactive pancreas, which leads to hypoglycemic shock (or "not feeling satisfied" after your meal). I've tried explaining this to many people, but no one ever seems to believe me, even though it is documented fact, and I serve as a living example. I recommend the South Beach Diet. It is based on real science, designed by a real doctor. I lost 20 lbs just by doing the "diet", and once I added light exercise to it I lost another 20 lbs, and I've kept it off for a year with very little effort, no exaggeration.
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The most important thing in this world is love. |
07-30-2008, 10:30 AM | #96 (permalink) | |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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Quote:
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
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07-30-2008, 10:54 AM | #97 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I should've been more specific. It's a case of relative hypoglycemia. People eat refined carbs, which are quickly absorbed, which leads to a quick response by your pancreas of insulin secretion. This quick drop in blood sugar is what makes people not feel "satisfied". I've only studied diabetes a little (I have my bachelor's degree in clinical laboratory science, just graduates, w00t!), but from my understanding, the drop in blood sugar doesn't have to land you into an actual hypoglycemic range.
Say you drink a large drink with lots of sugar in it (think StarBucks frappuccino for example). Your blood sugar level may shoot up to 190 mg/dl (with the normal range being about 70 to 120 mg/dl, depending on which book you look at). Your pancreas quickly responds and brings your sugar level down to 125 mg/dl. Your blood sugar level is still too high, but because of the quick drop, you develop relative hyoglycemia, which makes you feel just as hungry and unsatisfied as actual hypoglyemia would. You proceed to consume more sugar to alleviate this dissatisfaction, and in the process bring your sugar level way up beyond normal levels again, and the whole thing becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. True hypoglycemia is when your blood sugar level dips below about 50 mg/dl (again, depending on what book you look at, but it's around that range), which also makes you feel hungry. I like your signature Baraka_Guru, especially the T.S. Eliot quote. Consider this to be one of those tidbits of truth that people would rather not hear. And consider this: following wherein you control your sugar level (again, I can't recommend a South Beach Diet book enough) can actually cure some cases of type 2 diabetes. I don't know much about the eating habits of people around the world, but I would assume that places where diabetes, heart disease and obesity are not a problem are places where refined carbs are scarce or shunned.
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The most important thing in this world is love. |
08-01-2008, 08:21 PM | #98 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Planet Earth
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We as humans have a tendency to overanalise the shit out of evertyhing. Bottom line..........too much food (portions much bigger at restuarants than 20 years ago) and less exercise. We in North Amercia are LAZY!
Too many excuses.......product of a self indulgent society. |
08-01-2008, 09:20 PM | #99 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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There is no bottom line. For example, there are many fat healthy people.
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
08-02-2008, 08:22 AM | #100 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: The South.
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For crying out loud there's an epidemic of Type 2 Diabetes in children. Children aren't supposed to have Type 2 Diabetes.
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"There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school." -- Thucydides |
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08-02-2008, 11:33 AM | #101 (permalink) |
Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side
Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.
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that's somewhat of a contradiction in terms, don't ya think?
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He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin... |
08-10-2008, 06:47 AM | #104 (permalink) | ||
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 08-10-2008 at 06:49 AM.. |
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08-10-2008, 07:44 AM | #105 (permalink) | |
...is a comical chap
Location: Where morons reign supreme
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My mother is overweight but has low blood pressure, normal cholesterol levels, and has an active job. Her doctor is far more worried about her mental health (she is chronically depressed) than her physical health. She could probably kick my ass if it ever came to that. My friend has always been thin...in high school all she ate was candy and the cheese crackers from my brown bag lunch. I stayed with her a few years ago while she was in college in DC and her cupboards were full of canned soups and processed dinners. I don't remember seeing any fruits or veggies. Hardly the picture of health, despite being thin. Me? I'm fat because I eat too much and don't exercise enough. I'm working on it, though.
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"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa |
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