Ace_O_Spades

So shouldn't the argument be that servers should earn more per hour? Minimum wage in BC is 8/hour. Perhaps you guys should entertain the possibility that your sore ass is from getting pounded by the government's low minimum wage, not from getting pounded by "cheap" visitors to your country.

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Feh.

Ustwo

A good waiter makes more than that, so such would only help the crappy ones and make the good ones find other work. I'm willing to bet the average take home pay after taxes and such is greater for the US waiter.

If you aren't getting better than minimum, find another restaurant, they are ALWAYS looking for people.

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Ace_O_Spades

But at least it prevents a server from earning LESS than 8/hour, a common theme I'm beginning to see as to why people are so reliant on tips

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Feh.

ring

very simple to me...they don't know the custom..
they might not be able to afford it...they don't care...
they want to send a message of sorts...infitum..

sheeshmeister in a ...I'll stop now.

Ustwo

If you are making less you need to ask yourself why work there in the first place or if you are the only one making less ask yourself why you get less than the other workers.

You are protecting the crappy ones with your idea, I'm protecting the hard working ones.

TBH I had fun as a waiter for the most part, and yea I got stiffed now and then but it was a minority of the time and I never made less than minimum age on average and usually did far better, I got better tips than my wife .

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Infinite_Loser

People tip 10% - 30%? I'm not a foreigner, but if you get $3 from me-- Regardless of the bill-- Consider yourself lucky.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Ace_O_Spades

See your argument here makes no sense, in light of the fact that this thread centers around the idea that some people won't give you the tips regardless of how well you serve them.

My idea protects everyone from bad tippers, and enables the stronger ones to make a decent living

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Feh.

Leto

your stance is a philosophical one. I tip, but don't think that it should be the case. Why do I tip? because it is expected. How much do I tip? The exact amount (15%) which, by the way, DOES cut it. I tip based on cost of the meal and very rarely on the level of service.

If I find the service lacking (for example last Saturday at East Side Mario's) I speak to the server. Usually it turns out to be a problem further down the chain. The incident at East Side Mario's was an issue with the cook, and the waitress apologized profusely, and gave us a promo discount. In that case, I still tipped her a FULL (notice I use the term Full for 15% as that is the accepted rate here) 15% on the pre-discounted price of the meal.

NEVERTHELESS, I still do not like to tip. I think that the cost of the meal at the restaurant more than covers my desire to not eat at home and prepare my food myself.

That the industry has perpetuated the notion that we need to download additional cost to the end user I find disgusting, and only through solidarity (via hold back of gratuities) can we ever force change and make restuarants pay wait staff a living wage! DINERS UNITE!

Oh, Host, I did do research on tipping practices when I went to Jamaica, US, Korea, Sri Lanka etc to be sure. I find that the US and Canada are fairly sympatico, but 20%??? really now.


ya the tipping of my barber.... I heard that etiquette demands that you don't tip the owner of the establishment. Never. It's bad manners. However, I always give an extra $4 to my barber (two toonies) for my $14 haricut. I've noticed that I don't have to make appointments anymore. If I walk in, a chair is always available.

Pizza, I give $2 all the time. Taxi? Can't remember the last time... except for an airport limo, and it was 15% of the fare (expensed to the company).

oh yes, at Christmas I left a $10 Tim Horton's card for my mail man, hanging on my mailbox. I sure hope he's the one that got it.

Willravel

They're making you food without spitting in it if you tip 15% or more. It not, then you're paying $3 or mucus and saliva, if you're lucky.

It's officially customary to provide 15%. If you tip less than that, you're communicating one of two things:
1) Your service sucked
2) I am a cheap bastard

This is the country in which you live. If you don't like it, maybe you should make more money so that you can tip like an adult. Or go to Canada.

Ace_O_Spades

But how can they spit in your food if it's already in your belly by the time you pay? Just sayin...

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Feh.

Willravel

Repeat business. When you think about it, it's the repeat poor tipper that would be the biggest problem for a waiter. One meal's tips isn't much to lose, but several? That adds up. And it adds up to saliva. In your soup.

But one should tip out of respect, not fear. These little fuckers are busting their ass and it's something that is a custom. It's a part of being an adult. Clean your nails, brush your teeth, and tip your waiter. Skipping any of those is really immature.

Ace_O_Spades

Agreed, and I also agree that making a habit of tipping well pays dividends in the form of better service and friendly waitors / better seating.

I was just making a sideways observation.

Still though, I must confess I had no idea that there was so much animosity in the USA over this. It's rather amusing to be honest... If anything it makes me realize I should probably hide the fact I'm Canadian if there is such widespread hatred in the food service industry. Still... my standard 15% tip continues. Don't like it? Lobby for higher wages.

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Feh.

silent_jay

Or maybe the wait staff should get better jobs and make more money so they can live like adults and not have to depend on random people for their money. Like I said before, if they don't like my tip, give it the fuck back, I'll use the 5 bucks.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Willravel

Or maybe you should get a job where paying 15% would just be a drop in the bucket. It goes both ways, but at the end of the day it's just something you do if you're not an asshole. Knowing that you're not an asshole, I'm sure you do it.

Fly

fuck that.........i tip appropriatly........am a proud Canadian....


and if no one likes my tip..........kiss my hairy ass.






and if the service sucked.........your tip sucked........and i probably wouldn't return to dine in your establishment anyways........




so spit away.....

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BASTARD

SterlingStudios

Ustwo

Not enough to really make that big of a difference.

DESPITE those types I still made more than 15% pretty much any night. The job of a waiter is only worth so much, I'd rather be the best and make a lot more than average.

Some servers don't deserve making a higher set wage,due to the quality of their service, and the current system makes them find work elsewhere.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Ace_O_Spades

I'm speaking of avoiding the spit and grime that apparently will be visited upon us BEFORE we even have a chance to tip, by virtue of being Canadian and therefore "cheap" in the American service industry's eyes.

I'm a proud Canadian, but I also don't like eating dirty food.

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Feh.

Ustwo

Damn Canadians.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Bossnass

Perhaps the thread should be titled "Americans - why do you put up with inferior service and have arbitrarily high tipping customs?" Maybe "Stereotype group vaguely supported by a host-quoted article, defend yourself'"

I've worked in the service industry. My wife, sister, and brother have all been servers at one time or another. I eat out a couple times a week and my wife and I have a standing Friday date night to have a decent meal together. I start at 20% and add/subtract based of service. More often than not, it is higher. If it ends up being lower, we don't go back to that establishment. It has been 0-100% in the past. I know people need to tip out, I've done it myself. If you are a shitty server and don't provide a reason, I'm not going to tip. Although I've only not-tipped once.

I think the entire concept is flawed. The custom started as a bonus to those that provided exceptional service. In a service industry where a tip is automatic, there is no motivation to the server to provide average or even adequate service.

I know you can make a decent living as a server. I know you make more money than other servers when you do a good job, as you should. I know most people in the food service industry pay minimal taxes. If you're a career server (as opposed to 'first jobs' and 'putting myself through x), then you shouldn't be concerned about low tips. I've never been to a fine dining establishment and had poor service or tipped anywhere below 20%. But I've pretty much stiffed the airhead college girl at Earls and the old bitch at the diner.

jewels

Maybe they'd get be able to get better jobs if they could afford to finish school on their parents' dollars. Or if their husbands didn't leave them caring for a child on their own.

Most 'wait staff' is working their way towards something better. Or at least trying.

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Mark Twain

Willravel

There's nothing to suggest the service here is inferior, bossnass.

silent_jay

You're right will, it does go both ways, they could get better jobs, I could get a better job, I leave them their 15%, they seem happy, I seem happy, it all works out in the end.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

Why? Everyone in my market, "is with the program". From the OP:
You visit our city, our local patrons support what we do for them, they return time and again, and you benefit from the highest level of service in the world.

We assume nothing, but we know what we average in each transaction. When you take up a table, during the time you are there, no else can be seated.

Read the comments in this thread, and in the two comparison Yahoo answers pieces. The Canadians who have posted in this thread, and in the Yahoo answers box, seem commonly to be resistant to tipping, to tip less, and to specifically mention that they are "prepared" to top less than 15 percent if they are dissatisfied with their experience in any way.

Almost no poster identified in a profile or a posted admission, as Canadian, mentions ever tipping 20 percent, but almost all mention reasons for deducting from the amount that they tip, and there are more mentions of a "10 to 15 percent" tipping range.

That just is not the way that it is done here, except by foreign visitors. Put yourself in my place, if you can. The average tip in my market is just above 19 percent, but I work in fine dining, the highest rated, best food, wine and service venue.

You come in, prepared to tip "up to" 15 percent, if you are completely satisfied. From the start, you're taking up 20 percent of my earning potential, in a 5 table station. You automatically are reducing my income from your table by at least 20 percent below what the average tip in our market is. (Remember...just over 19 prcent is average in this market, but this is a fine dining venue, so our average is higher.)

Not only are you not willing to learn or adapt to the local tipping custom, you are unapologetic, even obnoxious, proposing "remedies" for a "problem" that only you are the source of. If you didn't know, now you do.

At least give us some kind of relief, if you have to ignore how the people seated around you are tipping, here in the US. Come early, before 6:00PM, or later, after 9:00 PM, and don't stay for coffee and dessert.

I started a thread asking foreigners to explain why they tip less, when visiting the US and dining in our restaurrants, and you have posted why. You're here on holiday, why all the anger and resentment, resistance to our customs The service would suffer and meal and drink prices would be higher, if
tipping at the average US level was less than it is.

I don't encounter the service deficiencies when I dine out, and certainly not in the restaurant I work in, that so many of you have posted about as a reason to tip less.

Read your posts, if you were me, and detected your accent at one of my tables, early in your dining experience, would you be all that excited to be serving you, compared to one of our local patrons?

We don't auto grat you, haggle over the tip, we don't even mention it, because we expect that you will hold up your end of the transaction, based on how we do things here. Some of you have stated that you are satisfied that your tipping percentage is the norm, is satisfactory.

But, you post it, kind of like the way you tip. "Dodgy", in that you say it is so, but you offer nothing to support your claim. If you have data to counter the two linked article excerpts I posted, please provide it. Otherwise, you appear similarly to the way you tip.

Bossnass

Most Canadians in the thread say they tip 15-20%. I said 20+/-. I tip frequently 20+.

If I tip less, it means the service was inferior. In accordance with the presumptions in the thread (All Canadians tip less, all servers should automatically get 20%), I think the presumption that American service is inferior is equally sound.

I've only dined in a few states (Montana, Idaho, Washington, Maine, New Hampshire, Nevada, Colorado, Florida), and I have no recollection the % I tipped, but if it was an inferior tip it was in response to inferior service.

Willravel

So you'd tip 15% for inferior service? That's not unreasonable.

silent_jay

I find it amusing that an American is asking someone from another country to learn and adapt to local customs. Ahhh so we're the only source of the problem? Not the rest of the foreigners? Good to see the true host is coming out. Like I said before, don't like my tip I'll gladly take it back and use my money on something I want.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Willravel

To be fair, our waiters aren't invading Iraq.

silent_jay

Hehe, now that would be an invasion, white coats and puffy hats, flinging freedom fries at the masses.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Willravel

Hey, they'd only want 20%. Right now we're trying to take a lot more than that.

ShaniFaye

I cant stand the whole tipping thing, I think its stupid and I wish I lived in a country where it wasnt done. Tipping is not mandatory as much as some people would like to think it is and I will tip what I feel like. My norm is 15% but I have absolutely no qualms about not leaving one.

I put in my order, I fully expect the person who brings it to my table, no matter who it is to make sure its right before it leaves the kitchen. If my order is wrong and I have to send it back....you're pretty much guaranteed no tip, if I had alcohol at said meal I will personally go tip the bartender myself

/my two cents
and Im American

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

ring

AHH...I betcha they are all Scotsman in disguise...
all that nickel squeezin and such carries over...(i hope that sounds like a joke)

It seems we have shifted the conversation to other ideas of tipping practices..
which is good...I'm still thinkin bout something..later..

Ustwo

Well just so you know because, obviously you don't......

The waitstaff may have screwed up your meal but the kitchen may have as well or if they have production staff the guy may have brought out the wrong one to your table. Only the first is the waiters fault, and shit happens, being a bitch about it and not tipping is your prerogative, but it still makes you a bitch since its almost always an honest mistake not due to laziness.

As for the alcohol, you just fucked the waiter/ress. Most places the waiter is required to tip out to the bartender. By directly giving the tip to the bartender you have now not just stiffed the waitstaff in question, you have taken money from them.

Congratulations, you are part of the problem.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

ShaniFaye

So not paying for shoddy service is being a bitch? fine im a bitch then and have no problem with that. If I see you write down I want a salad with no onions on your little ticket and it comes out with onions, thats not an honest mistake, its takes how long to compare your ticket to what you're bringing out? If I order steak and you bring me a hamburger and i have to TELL you that you brought me the wrong thing....again, it takes how long to check the order before its brought to the table?

Like I said...tipping is not mandatory, its a gratuity, a "thank you" and Im not gonna thank a person for screwing up my dinner by giving them money.

Its really very simple....pay attention to the service you're giving and you'll get thanked

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

host

That is not true, it's contradicted in the Canadian article in the op, it's contradicted at the yahoo.ca "Answers" quote box, and it's contradicted in the majority of the posted comments of folks with Canadian places or graphics in their profiles.....if you think I am wrong, show me where you got the support for that statement...."most"

Willravel

Shani, you know that waiters are paid less in wages because gratuity is expected by management, right? So in effect, a lack of a 'thank you' actually translates to making less than one should make in such a position.

Edit: it should also be said that if you can't afford to tip at a restaurant, you really shouldn't be eating there. If you make $12k a year, your first choice should not be a $100 a plate dinner where you'd have to provide at least a $15 tip.

ShaniFaye

of course I know that, I worked in the payroll industry for years and I handled several eating places, I know exactly how they are paid and how they are supposed to report their tips etc.

Sorry if some of you think its wrong to expect a person to do their job correctly but I dont (I never said there were not some exceptions, I said "generally"). Its a chance a server takes when they take the job.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Willravel

It comes off as vengeance or something. I have trouble understanding that. They're getting your food, and they're making almost nothing hourly. What do you gain, aside from saving a few bucks and sticking it to the man?

telekinetic

Do all of you low tippers go to museums and concerts with a "recomended donation" and say "fuck that, you can't make me pay, I'm only giving you a dollar?"

You don't have to tip. If you don't want to tip, go to McDonalds or Pizza Hut. If you're only going to tip 10%, I think you should tell your waiter, so he or she only provides you with half the service he or she normally would.

In our current system, going to a restaraunt involves two financial transactions: You are paying the restaraunt for the food, and you are paying the waiter (who is basically an independant contractor hired by you) to bring you the food. If you can't afford to pay the waiter, eat someplace cheaper. Eating at a table enters you into an implied social contract with the waiter that you will pay them about 15%-20% of the value of the food and drinks they bring you.

I've never worked in the food service industry, but it baffles me when people get self righteous about paying for services rendered, merely because they aren't forced.

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twisted no more

Bossnass

Ace: 10-15
wakelagger: 10-15
highthief: 15+-
Charlatan: 15-20
fresnelly:20
fly:good service= great tip, shitty service= shitty tip.
Daval: 15-20
Baraka: 20+% to 15%
silent_jay: approx 15 (Edit- sometimes 20% for special service!)
Leto: 15
Bossnass 20+-

Yeah, thats most Canadians in this thread at 15-20.

I make no claims on your linked articles or yahoo.ca. I would doubt that the yahoo.ca answers are representative.

And I repeat my belief that the basic presumption of a 18.7% base rate for tipping is flawed. I'm certain I could find many examples (and links of 'proof') of current American trends, customs, and policies that you believe to be flawed.

--------automerging doublepost prep line-----------

I'm generally not a bad tipper, but I've seen enough of both sides of the transaction to have strong opinions on the topic.

Punk.of.Ages

I worked as a cook for various restaurants for five years. If you are a bad tipper, I don't recommend making repeat visits to any restaurant. If you're an asshole before you get your food, I recommend not eating anything that comes out of the kitchen. Spitting does happen. Worse happens.

As far as the OP goes, I don't base my tips on percentage. I'm horrible at percentages anyway. I have a system. Considering I only really go out to eat when I go on dates, the average meal ticket I pay for is around $50.00. If I had exceptional service I tip $20.00, if I have really good service I tip $15.00, average service I tip $10.00, bad service I leave $5.00, horrible service you get a nice shiny penny.

Also, when I refer to service, I mean my experience based on the things my server is in control of. I know when something is the cook, or somebody else's fault.

I think basing your tip on service is a very good idea. If you're a server and you don't make good money, it's because you're not very good at your job.

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