Canadian and other Foreign visitors to the US, why do you tip less?
 

I used to give the phenomena a pass, because there was the issue of unfavorable currency exchange rates, now that is not an issue.

I would like to know why you dine in our restaurants and patronize other horpitality service businesses, and for the most part, tip significantly less than American residents do for these same services?

It is a big deal, because, I work on a professional wait staff, in a fine dining establishment. My partner and I have five tables assigned to us. We tip out a busboy, food runner, and bar staff. The two of us share between us, 75 cents of every gratuity dollar you leave us. Our hourly rate has not changed, since it was lowered in 1997. It is a floor, in states without seperate minimum wage statutes, of $2.13 per hour. This floor was not changed in the recent federal minimum wage increase legislation.

My point is, we are at your mercy. You come into our establishment, and you are assigned a table. According to the following data, I can expect, on average, a "pay cut of 21 to 25 percent if you are seated at one of my tables, vs. an American patron.

In the "Canadian" thread, there was a strong reaction from some posters, at the idea that your nationality would be used as a code word for another group that has earned a reputation for tipping below average.

There was a comment there, about tipping according to a local, Canadian tax rate. The tipping calculation in the US is not much more complicated. If your meal check total is 56.60, just take ten percent, $5.66, or even $5.50, and simply double it. It is also no incovenience to respond to your request to add 18 or 20 percent gratuity. We won't cheat you, we promise, and we won't cringe when we hear the accent of the next of your countrymen who happens to be seated in our section.

To other foreign visitors, Canadians at least have an excuse, they are our neighbors, and they think of themselves as being well versed in our cultural norms, and to a great degree, they are, it is our common, North American culture.

But, what about you? What is your excuse for dining and leaving your serve a ten or even a five percent tip? It makes you look "dodgy", indifferent by design. Why do you so predictably act this way? Why do you pass, the obligation, by default, of providing the service level that you enjoy, on to the native resident population.

Our owner loves your business, why shouldn't he? He doesn't have to take a pay cut for the privilege of doing business with you.....

Tipping data:
An article on a website with a canadian URL:

I tip 10-15% depending on service. As I said in the other thread, if you don't like the extra money I give you, I've got two words for you:

Learn to fuckin' type

I guess I should comment on whether I think in general people do. Everyone I know tips similarly to me, so I have to say I don't feel there's a basis for the contention Canadians tip less.

Maybe those that do are trying to stick it to America for years of a piss poor loonie.

If you come here, acquaint yourself with our customs, you will have a more enjoyable visit.

It is ironic that you took such a strong exception to the use of the term "Canadian", in the other thread in this forum.

I've provided data supporting the notion that you tip below par, vs. the Canadian average, and you are apparently stealing the service when dining at an American restaurant, and costing your server an opportunity to wait on a less hostile customer.

Please order and eat quickly, skip the coffee and dessert, pay the check and move along. You only rent the seat, and you negatively impact the earnings of the poor schmuck who is serving you.

It is so easy to identify customers who have had the work experience of waiting tables for tips.

If nothing else, I know you will be approaching your next sit down restaurant experience with an enhanced insight, whether it influences your tipping habits or not. If you linger at the table, after you eat, I hope you recall our discussion, if for no other reason, than because it will aid you in reading your server's mind.

So do you expect me to tip more than 15%?

It's also apparent tonight that your humour detector is broken. Either that, or you've never seen Resevoir Dogs... or both.

In any case, you need to go wash the sand out of your vagina and go preach to someone who cares about your high and mighty proclamation that Canadians are cheap.

It's not '"my" proclamation. I've provided data showing average tipping precentages. Canadians tip, less on average, according to the data from a Canadian website. You've posted that you tip 1/6, on average, less than the average Canadian.

If you have recent data showing that Canadians tip more, on average than what I've provided, and I have experienced, anecdotally, please share it, or post data showing Americans on average, tip insignificantly more than Canadians. As of now, I'm left with the impression that, if I had the experience of serving you, I could expect to receive 5/8 of an average gratuity.

Sorry, I have no vagina, and I don't joke about deadbeats taking up space while they are shortchanging me. Thankfully, most people don't.

I'd like to take a minute and comment on some of the other things you said, because I think it's quite telling you have some kind of bias against Canadian restaurant diners

I see what you did there...

Stealing service, and hostile to boot... Yep, we're about one step shy of hauling out our hockey stick and two-handing the server over the head before we take a crap on our table and leave.

You provided data supporting your opinion, yes. However, I know how I act and operate in American restaurants. I've dined many times south of the border. Sometimes with people that post on this forum. I suggest you ask them what their impression of THIS Canadian was while he dined in one of your fine establishments.

Beyond that, you're just making yourself look ignorant.

Oh, and you didn't respond if you expect me to tip more than 15%, which is my standard tip... And the standard tip expected when I ask people I know who work in the industry.

Usually 10-15%. My parents usually just paid whatever the sales tax was (until recently, 15%) plus or minus whatever change made an even number. I personally don't like it when restaurants tack on the tip at the bottom of the receipt as if to show the customer that its part of the bill to be paid. I can calculate 15% in my head, I don't need the restaurant to remind me of custom. Besides, you can usually expect a tip. The fact that open discussions can be had based around how much to give someone that provides a service lends credit to the notion that tipping is widespread.

Besides, I'm not quite sure, but maybe Canadian restaurant servers are paid a higher minimum wage so to make an equivalent take home pay, the tip does not have to be as significant? So, these habits go across the border with the traveler. From what I just googled, anyone that serves alcohol in Ontario makes a minimum wage of $6.95 per hour.

That being said, I can't imagine working at a job where your take home pay is so dependent on a customer's arbitrary evaluation of your service tacked to a scale that is in no way predictable.

On a side note, I find your accusations inflammatory because you immediately put Canadian travelers on the defensive regarding their tipping habits. Don't paint a picture with such a wide brush.

I work in the Atlanta market, I provided 2005 data on the average tipping percentage there. It is not much different in the other US cities mentioned.
In a fine dining niche with a professional front of the house staff, people with college and culinary school education who consider their position as a career, average gratuities are above what is quoted in the US survey. Nine out of ten of the diners who I serve, tip at least 20 percent on the check total.

Some customers tip less than 20 percent on bottles of wine, after the first bottle.

I recall when I was working in NYC, eight years ago, the average response in a tipping survey of restaurant patrons, was just above 18 percent.

Some restaurants in some markets are reduced, because of the practices of their customers, to adding a mandatory gratuity to each guest check, to reduce server turnover.

Most trust customers to tip an average amount, and in my experience, almost all do, above the average percentage in this market. I am sharing my anecdotal experience, and articles I have read.

You can and will, do whatever you want. My work is in one of the few areas where compensation is not agreed upon, before the work starts. That gives you the advantage. You have the option of taking the advantage, but there will be a reaction if you do that. You won't see it, because you decide how much to pay your server, at the end of the transaction.

The server's reaction manifests itself in other ways, since decent establishments have a strict prohibition against servers reacting negatively to or even discussing the amount of a tip, after the fact, with a customer.

On a side note, this entire thread just reminds me of Mr. Pink's rant in Resevoir Dogs.

Here's me, playing the world's tiniest violin for Host's tipping woes....

Generally, I tip 15% if you suck, 30%+ if you're good. It also varies depending on the type of service.

Drinks must tip high. Expensive dining should always be 20% or more. Regular dining should be 15%-20% depending on quality of service. Haircuts are 15% rounded up the the next $10 ($40 haircut = $50 total, or $40 + $10 gratuity).

I might tip 10% if the waiter ejaculates on my date, but not for anything less. The lowest I'll tip is 15%.

Remember, it's not the waiter's fault that you're a dirt-poor Canadian.

Couldn't it just as legitimately be that it's not the Canadian's fault that you're a dirt-poor waiter?

The fact that the sentiments and data contained in this thread seem to be a surprise to you, is noteworthy.

It's a "just so you know", that seemed valid and appropriate, because of the discussion on the other thread. I'm in my fourth calendar year of actively posting here. I've never discussed tipping practices or average percentages before, and I would not have now, if the other thread didn't influence me to initiate this one.

I don't quite understand the admission, and then the determination behind it, about tipping well below the US average, when patronizing restaurants in the US. The service providers in these sit down restaurants don't haggle with you before serving you, in fact, there aren't many lower pressure transactions to experience in the US. They serve you, no questions asked. Most suffer silently if you overstay your dining phase, and not a word is said if you choose to leave a sub-average tip.

But, why would you? Why would you single out the server, the one cog in the chain who posts no price in advance, and has no choice but to accept whatever you decide to pay to him, in exchange for his or her service.

It is a one-way relationship, truly built on trust. The server trusts that you have familiarized yourself with local customs to act in a uniform way, the same as a local would. There is no penatly if you decide to be indifferent or conduct business the way you are accustomed to conducting it in your own country.

There is a subtle consequence....fallout, as discussed in the other thread. You can't hurt me, the average per customer check I deal with is $75, tax included, but you seem intent on shortchanging the powerless, the person who serves you with no pre-condtions and no negotiating power.

Now you're thinking more about it, too.

My thought's exactly, don't like the tip I leave, give it the fuck back, I'll use the money, don't like you make shitty money as a waiter, get a better fuckin job, not smart enough, or don't have the ambition to get a better job, suck it the fuck up and deal with it.

wow ! I guess the thread title's question has been answered.

I tip less when I visit US restaurants, because I can get away with it, and I don't give a shit how you people in the states tip, or what you think of me for shortchanging your servers. You live there, you make up the difference, I'll freeride while I visit.

I hope that there is no more offense taken in reaction to what has been posted in the other thread, now that we've had this "give and take" here.

Each country has its own habits. In Iceland, for instance, there's no tip whatsoever. So I would imagine Icelanders would not be very good tippers when they're in the US. It's not about people of a certain nationality being 'cheaper', it's about growing up in a different environment with regards to tipping. I do think the US system is pretty bad since it underpays the waiters and therefore they really depend on the tips.

+1. It works differently in different places. A friend of mine worked at a restaurant here in the UK where the waiting staff received ZERO percent of the service charge. Unfortunately they were all migrant workers and so felt like they couldn't say anything. I therefore always leave tips in cash.

I should stress that that is likely not the norm here - just a rogue greedy restaurant owner who clearly doesn't care about his staff.

Maybe it's just payback for the way Americans act in foreign countries. :P

Doesn't seem to be the case....

If anyone from outside the US is still willing to answer a question, I would like to know if you have ever inquired via the internet or other reference source, or discussed tipping etiquette in the US, in anticipation of a visit or because of actually visiting the US?

If you have wanted to know about when and what percentage to tip in US restaurants or in other situations, did you also seek information on other facets of US etiquette or local customs?

If you did not ask about tipping before you came to the US, did you try to find out information on how much Americans routinely tipped when they dined in one of their restaurants, while you were visiting, or since?

If you did not inquire about US tipping etiquette in anticipation of a visit to the US, did you ask about other US practices and customs, so that you could "fit in" more smoothly during your visit, or be more knowledgable about American society?

Here are answers to a question of how much to tip, for comparison:
Responses to tipping question in yahoo.ca "answers":
and the answers on http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8233831AA9KVrv

Ok, I guess I'm going to get clubbed over the head for saying this, but I question the whole obligatory tip notion.

I work all day and no-one ever tips me. Why not, I do a hell of a good job! If you're not getting paid well enough, take it up with your boss. I know it's the way this service works, but why? You work in the place, you get a pay-check. So tell me, why do I have to tip you?

I usually tip 10-20% by the way. In Portugal about 10% is the expected amount.

With all due respect, you're quoting a survey of hotel managers. I've found by and large that Londoners hate American tourists. Londoners are usually in a hurry: we rely on public transport, it takes ages to get anywhere, and missing a train can mean a long wait. American tourists ARE usually the ones blocking train station exits etc... and it's obvious that they are Americans because they are about twice as loud as anyone else. My commute to work takes me an hour and a half every day, and at least once a week I am delayed by a group of American tourists while trying to catch a train.

I am speaking here as an American living in London, so I'm not saying this as someone who hates Americans - it's just what I have observed. I realise that there are probably many wonderful American tourists, but the inconsiderate ones naturally draw attention (and ire).

Host, you should probably keep in mind that if tipping is not a part of the culture for someone else, they are unlikely to do research on it until they are made aware of it. You don't know what you don't know. Do most Americans research the details of Sharia law before visiting the Middle East?

Also, remember that Americans have a terrible reputation for being completely ignorant of cultures elsewhere. This is not to excuse anyone else's behaviour when in the US, but to put a little perspective on things.

:lol:

Yeah, I have to say - I'm embarassed for many Americans when I'm abroad, especially the way many deal with wait staff. Can't count the number of times I've cringed hearing a Yank go after some poor server or desk clerk for something obviously not their fault.

Usually, Yanks are OK, but once they leave the US many do seem to lose their marbles. Probably fear.

Anyway, I tip 15% for standard service. For every fuck up you make, you lose 5% (so, take forever to offer me a drink, screw up the order, whatever - 5% off). Three screw ups (a common occurence at the local Milestones) and you get no tip. I add 5% for every positive "above and beyond" moment.

Maybe you should move to a country where you don't have to act like a beggar seeking alms in order to get by?

Living across the pond, waiters and servers get paid more than they do in the US. Trying to leave a tip, a waitress ran back to give me my forgotten money. After explaining that it was for her, she, as well as most other servers, refused it.

I was shocked. It just doesn't really work that way over here.

I tip between 15% and 20% depending on the service, the food, the ambiance... If I didn't enjoy myself, the tip is lower.

I don't care that waiters make less and have to live on tips. That really isn't my problem. A tip is simply To Insure Promptness.

I like it where I am now. The service charge is included in the bill so I don't have to worry about it.

As for tipping other service industry types... I see no need to tip a hairstylist, delivery person or taxi driver. Quite frankly, I think that Americans over tip and tip too often.

Wow, it's obvious that far to many people here haven't been servers. Statements such as "If you don't like my tip, then give it back" and other similar sentiments are unbelievably ignorant, selfish, and short sighted. If you're going out to eat the waiter is providing you a service: (s)he is getting you drinks, getting you appetizers, making sure that side salad that doesn't come with bacon on it suddenly comes with bacon on it because you asked, they're refilling not only your drinks but everyone at your table and everyone else's at anywhere from 2 to 15 tables, they're putting up with the people that come in and order $100 worth of food and then leave $1 tip, and they're doing this while making $2.13 an hour.

If you don't want to tip, then stay home & cook dinner yourself. The old adage of leaving 15% just doesn't cut it anymore as the server not only has to make tips for themselves, but they must also tip out the bartender, the bus boys, and sometimes the hosts. When most people go out to restaurants they don't tip based on the service, but instead based on the cost of the meal. If it's an expensive meal then it kind of works out (sometimes), but too often they come and spend $30 on dinner only to leave a mere $5 tip. If the service was bad then by all means, leave a crappy tip, but if your drinks where always full and the bread sticks where always at the ready then please take care of the person taking care of you.

When you walk into a diner you know before hand that you're going to have to tip. Don't feed servers that bullshit about the worlds smallest violin trying to be funny.

And then all the servers will be out of a job, along with the cooks, sommeliers, etc., if everyone followed that advice.

I can't see paying anything less than 20% unless I receive crappy service. If I can't afford it, I won't dine out. It's always a budgeted cost.

I live in a heavily touristed area and certain establishments that are known to attract Canadian tourists will tack the tip onto the bill because the servers often get shafted.

Good or bad, in the US, most servers are paid what amounts to a stipend. They get paid (tips) according to how well they've done their job. In very few places, they're paid well and great service is expected. But why it's done and if it's 'right' is an entirely different thread.

When traveling, following the local customs is the way to go. If you intend to revisit a particular establishment, you definitely want to be sure to tip well. :p

I don't know what to say. I'm Canadian and tip 20% unless the service was terrible.

If my tax based theory doesn't hold up then it's probably a combination of cultural difference (as Charlatan alludes to) and vacationers coming in with a well gouged chip on their shoulders. Travelling is expensive so I can understand why a tourist would be a little stingey when he has the chance.

That's 16%. Low, but not below the 15% threshold. 20% is only $6 so I appreciate that it's frustrating to work so hard for so little.

I wonder if many Canadians find American waitstaff too overbearing with their upselling and super-sized friendliness. I'm confidant that this rubs most Canadians the wrong way and could negatively influence the tip. I understand this sort of thing is mostly directed by management but there it is. When Wal-Mart came to Canada, they had a PR struggle on their hands because of the professional greeters, which was a new concept. It was considered suspicious and insincere, more at home in a small town store than a superstore.

Memo to Perkin's Restaurant management. I don't want a fucking slice of pie for breakfast. Back off already!

I'll keep trying to buck the stereotype though. It's the best I can do.

As a former waiter, I tip 20+% if its good service, 15% for average and only rarely less than that.

My previous employer had a rule that all tips were to be no more than 15%. If more than 15%, the excess was deducted from the expense reimbursement. This really blew. I always round up when mentally calculating tips. And always got dinged by it.

Each country has its own customs. In Japan, there is no tipping. But any savvy traveler should know what his destination's customs are before visiting there.

Same.

And to whomever said it was "ignorance" which allowed people to tip 15%, as they have no idea what it's like to be a waiter, I think you're sorely mistaken.

If I wanted to be in charge of a waiter's pay and be concerned whether they were being paid enough, I'd own a fucking restaurant.

A tip is a gift, an acknowledgment that someone did something to make me more comfortable that they weren't otherwise obligated to do. I tip 15-20%, but it's not because I know or even CARE how much they're getting paid. How much they're getting paid is not my concern; how I want to SPEND my money, is, however.. and I will tip based on quality of service.

good service.....you get a great tip.

shitty service........well,you'll be bitching about a shitty tip.



man that was easy.........

I tend to follow this same guideline. I do throw a couple of bucks at hairstylist, delivery and taxi though, but I don't base it on a percentage, its usually 3$ across the board.

As a former kitchen worker, and a current Canadian, I both agree with and abide by this statement.

"Our owner loves your business, why shouldn't he? He doesn't have to take a pay cut for the privilege of doing business with you....."
--> Correction. That's not a paycut. That's a gift that you've come to expect as a given, and go all huffy about when it's not automatically given to your expectations.

Maybe they're just tipping the way they are used to tipping at home. They might even be stretching their budget a little to even visit wherever you are working, and tips would be #1 on needless expenses for these people.

I've worked as a waiter for a 2 years here in Belgium... If I made the equivalent of $1 each hour in tips, then I was lucky. There is no 10% or 20% tipping around here. I can only agree with Mr. Pink on the whole expected tipping idea that runs rampant in the US.

Expect to not get a tip at all unless both the customer feels like tipping, AND you work your butt off for him.

I find this funny, it's like someone whinnying they're boss isn't paying them enough and they want me to cover the difference. So because the sever has to pay out more people now 15% isn't good enough? Don't think so, I'm not the one who took the job as the waiter and your finances are not a worry of mine.

I've had a personal belief for a long time.

Everyone should be a waiter/waitress for at least six months to see how life is on the customer service end. I think we would have a much less assholish society.

Worked in customer service before, didn't make great money at all, but I also didn't expect others to make up the difference on my shitty pay.

Nisses, I think you're missing one of the points host made in the OP--not all servers in the United States make minimum wage (it varies widely from state to state, depending on local labor law). The way it's set up is that servers in a lot of states make less than minimum wage--the tips they receive are meant to make up what they're not paid by the restaurant. So imagine getting a few tables that don't tip or don't tip well, and only getting paid $2-3/hr. Tipping is so rampant that local labor laws are based around the expectation that servers are getting at least 15% in tips per table they serve.

I had the great fortune when I did kitchen work to work somewhere where I was paid minimum wage and got a share of the tips. But I understand that's not the case everywhere in the United States.

On the flip side every waiter cheats on their taxes.

When I worked for a national chain we were told as long as we claimed about 8% tips it would never be an issue.

If we forgot to clock out, the manager would clock us out and 'punish' us by claiming 15% as tips.

And I did make more than 15%, in fact I did very well. Where you 'lose' isn't in the tipping really but the set up times and closing times when the restaurants not busy. So for the first say 3 hours I was making less than minimum wage, for the rush I'd be making maybe 3-4 times minimum wage, and then at closing I was making just above it.

I never paid that much attention but my wife kept meticulous records to see what she was really making, and in 1995ish it was 8.50 and hour all said and done (the good, the bad, the ugly days combined).

For an establishment with only moderate cheque totals it wasn't bad, and its not the kinda place you make a career out of.