Lasereth

I recently bought my car from a local dealership. When I purchased it I had no idea that the clutch and flywheel needed to be replaced (I know how to drive a manual well, but don't have a lot of experience with this exact car). After a few people I know drove my car, they said the clutch needs to be looked at and probably replaced. I take it to the dealership 3 weeks after I bought it and they say that there's nothing wrong with it. I ask them to take the transmission apart to look at it. Lo and behold, there's $1,500 damage to the flywheel and clutch assembly. They're saying I did it. I did not. I know how to drive a manual and I don't drive my car stupid. This damage was done previous to me buying the car. It is used, and clutch assemblies are generally not covered in warranty. However, since I did buy the car with the damage already done, it seems to me that the dealership should fix it.

They're refusing. I've talked to every single person at the dealership. I've threatened legal action and the BBB. They said ok, we're still not fixing it.

Is there anything else I can do? I can't afford a $1,500 fix right now for a problem that was there when I bought the car. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. BTW this is the extremely brief version of events that have occured. If you want more details let me know.

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jorgelito

Look up your state's DMV website. There may be something about a "No Lemon Law".

The BBB is pretty useless actually, like the UN. They have no power.

Hopefully you created a file for a papertrail. You are going to need as much documentation as you can get. Can you get anyone to verify the damage closer to the date of the sale? Did you test drive it?

The biggest hurdle it proving the damage was done before you got the car.

Good luck man.

Oh, another thing you could try is to get a local media involved. Usually, they will have a consumer right's unit that reports on these things.

TotalMILF

I did a quick search, and it seems that the NC Lemon Law only covers NEW vehicles (not used), but you should definitely get some legal advice. Just do a search, as jorgelito suggested, for "NC Lemon Law," and it'll also bring up some attorneys that specialize in this, and most offer a free consultation to see if you have a case.

Here's an overview of the NC Lemon Law, aka the New Motor Vehicles Warranty Act.

Good luck!!

Redjake

When they say "new" in this context, it means "recently purchased" - the Lemon Law does apply to used cars, as well - as long as they were purchased from a dealership

problem is, you have to take the car into the shop a certain number of times, etc. before a certain time period and all that.

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ratbastid

Yeah, the Lemon Law is intended to protect consumers when a car just can't seem to get fixed no matter how many attempts are made. It doesn't really deal with pre-existing conditions that weren't disclosed at purchase, unfortunately.

Initiate a small claims court case. It doesn't cost much to do that (in money... it may cost some time), and just the filing might jar something loose over there.

Threaten them with a post on consumerist.com. If you don't know Consumerist, read it. Great consumer-protection blog. They regularly get good results for people there.

Daemon1313

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, typically you do not have any legal recourse when you purchase a used car out of warranty and it has mechanical issues. It falls under caveat emptor, or in non legal jargon, it is the buyer's problem if anything goes wrong. The only real exception to this would be if they lied to you and said something along the lines of it had a new clutch. Some states have extensions of the core federal lemon laws that cover used cars in some way. Unfortunately I do not think NC covers used cars under their lemon law.

Be careful about making threats against them if you do not have legal grounds. They would be within legal rights to bring a defamation case against you for slander and/or libel.

Autopedia has a good over view of sites that cover lemon laws:
http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon.html

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ratbastid

Yeah, yeah... my comments about what to do shouldn't be taken as a suggestion that you have a legal leg to stand on. Unfortunately, I don't think you do. Doesn't mean you can't rattle the bars, though.

Adri

This is a really unfortunate situation, and in my experience, is the #1 reason people tell you to:

A. Not buy a used car because you're "buying someone else's problem"; or
B. Have a mechanic you trust inspect the car fully before you sign ANYTHING.

In your case, even had you brought one of your friends along, they'd have probably recognized the clutch problem on the test drive.

California has a nice law for used cars where you can negotiate during the uh, negotiation period, for 3-7 days post-purchase to take the car to a mechanic, run a Carfax report, etc. and if you're dissatisfied with the results of your research, you can return it without a hassle. Not that this helps YOU very much...

I asked a consumer attorney friend of mine what she suggests, and she told me that most dealerships will have some sort of proof of inspection on file for any used car they sell, and, depending on the laws in your state, you may be able to demand a copy of said inspection. Hopefully, this error is on that document.

Strange Famous

I dont know much about the US law, but in the UK a second hand car is pretty much sold as seen, unless there is a specific agreement between the two parties otherwise.

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TotalMILF

No, it does not mean "recently purchased" in North Carolina. It means brand-spanking-shiny new, not "used but new to you." That's why they call it the "New Motor Vehicles Warranties Act." In NC, if you buy a used car without a warranty (either the balance of the warranty from the manufacturer, or a warranty obtained from the dealership or another outside source), you're pretty much SOL unless you can prove that the dealership lied about the condition of the clutch when the car was purchased.

What a shitty situation to be in.

Cynthetiq

$1,500 tuition to the school of hard knocks.

sucks, but that's what it is.

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Lasereth

The dealership said that the car was inspected before it was sold and during the inspection they found no clutch/flywheel problems.

I told them that it's possible that their inspector missed the flywheel problem when inspecting the car since <I>their mechanic</I> missed the problem the first time I took it back as stated above.

I've taken the car to a certified dealership (the car was purchased from a dealership that did not specialize in that vehicle type) and the mechanics at this dealership looked at the flywheel. They said that the damage to the flywheel appears to be inflicted over a long period of time, not short-term as the purchase-dealership is saying. I told this to the purchase-dealership and they are still refusing to budge.

The manufacturer's warranty is still in effect on the car, the 30-day warranty was still in effect, and the 4-year warranty from the dealership is still in effect on the car but not one of these cover the clutch. The warranty doesn't matter, however -- the damage was done previous to me purchasing the car. The car was sold to me in this condition without my knowledge. Do I have any grounds to stand on?

__________________
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The_Jazz

Lasereth, I think that we've now hit the point where you need a lawyer to give you an answer. Given the facts above, I think you do have grounds to file suit, but I strongly suggest that you contact an attorney before doing anything else. As a guy that does liability insurance all day every day and understand the civil court system pretty well in general, I think you could file suit and win. I think you could also file suit and lose. The devil is going to be in the details, and you need a professional to give you his studied opinion.

Sorry.

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Lasereth

Lawyer is already contacted and is calling them first thing monday. I'm not paying anything further unless the lawyer is very confident that we will win.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Redjake

Interesting - then why did the dealership and myself both have to sign a Lemon Law document stating that they are in compliance with the law when I bought my used car? So did Lasereth.

__________________
Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

ratbastid

Probably standard practice CYA.

shakran

Well. MAYBE. If that pre-sale inspection was a part of the sale (i.e. a certified used car) then you're on pretty solid grounds, especially since you have another mechanic backing you up on the idea that the damage was done before you bought the car.

If not, however, then you're screwed unfortunately.

EaseUp

Used car dealers have probably been to small claims court multiple times. I took a business to small claims court once, and when I researched how many times they'd been there, it was impressive. The guy from the business was no amateur at that sort of thing. Fortunately, neither was I, and I won.

Back to your case: The lawyer isn't going to scare them. On the contrary, They know that almost no lawyer is going to take a case for a measly $1500. If it goes to court, it will be in small claims court. It's also by no means assured that you will win, because they will just claim you did the damage. They have "documentation" that it was fine when it left their dealership.

Having a spouse and infant child along, and saying you all almost burned to death in a fiery crash because of the defect would be about all that would help you. That, or as someone else said, a local news crew. An infant child with health problems would be useful there, too. No reason you have to mention that the child isn't necessarily yours. "I need to take little Brandon to his medical appointments, and I'm scared to death of this car."

I have taken the last three vehicles I thought about buying used to a mechanic, and each time, I was very glad I did. All three had expensive problems.

That's the best money you will ever spend.

Sion

Lasereth, what was the purchase price? And, most importantly, how was it financed?

If the purchase price was, say, $7000 and you are financed through the dealership, a threat to quit making payments might get them to budge where nothing else will. Just be sure not to store the car at your residence. Leave it with a friend, so it can't be repo-ed.

If you are not financed through the dealership, then take the matter up with your lending institution. They may be able to pressure the dealer to do something.

good luck.

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thingstodo

I would caution you on witholding payments unless you can handle a major ding in your credit. Since you purchased the car caveat emptor, you are basically stuck.

Most people spend the money to have an inspection by a trusted third party. Even that might not detect transmission problems. And if you believe a used car salesman when they say the car was inpsected, well...ever hear of swamp land?

Like Cynthetique said earlier, just look at this as a $1,500 learning experience. And when you do have it fixed, at least you'll know it won't break any time soon!

Also, if the car had a 30 warranty, what was covered? The transmission is part of the drive train, which is usually the portion with the longest coverage.

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Rekna

Threaten to make a big sign and stand in front of the dealer with it. Exercise your free speech rights. If they refuse then make the sign and stand in front of the place make sure that everything you put in the sign is true. If you stand out there for a few hours they will probably cave quickly. The beauty is that if you can prevent just a couple sales then they will loose the $1,500. If you do it for a week straight they will be very sorry.

Lasereth

To give some closure to this thread:

I got a lawyer, he sent a threatening letter to the dealership, they struck a deal with me to fix the car for $400. I got it fixed and drove it for the first time with a new transmission yesterday. Smooth like silk!!!!!!

Cynthetiq

that's awesome. I'm glad that it worked out reasonably.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Destrox

Woohoo, nothing like legal pressure on those who purposely fuck over the consumer.

SHame you had to pay anything.

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MSD

In the words of a mechanic,
well, that's your problem right there.

Midnight

Very glad this worked out to be a 400 dollar lesson and not a 1500 dollar one.

BUT

I have a few friends that are mechanics. not a single one of them minds if someone shows up (while out on their test drive) and says "Hey (mechanic's name), I hate to bother you, but i'm thinking about buying this car here and wondered if you would mind giving me your opinion on how sound it is, or if you notice anything right off the bat you know would be a major problem" all 4 of my mechanic friends get this sort of thing all the time and as long as they aren't swamped, they will hop in, drive it around the block a few times, take a look at it and so on.

Doing this myself, I got 500 bucks knocked off the price of a used car I was interested in because that was what I came back with a quote with on the repairs for the issues the car had. Worth trying next time around if you are like me and know little about cars and dont have someone knowledgeable to take with you to look at them (which is ALWAYS recommended)