RAMONES!!!

"killer" dogs are now popping up in the news everywhere. Tonight i saw on the news that a man shot a pittbull

he claims that the dog tried to attack his cat (which was inside) the guy came outside with a gun and claims that the dog came at him and he said "it was him or me".

the young woman that owned the dog said that they were very nice, she said that kids from the neighborhood always would play with them.

It makes no sense for the man to come out of his house in the first place. if the dogs were really causing a lot of trouble then he should have called animal control.

What i meant by the whole dog thing getting out of control is that now that it has made national news it seems to me that he could have wanted his 15 minutes....am i wrong for thinking that?

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krwlz

If I had a dog causing a lot of trouble I would probably have done something simlar. I would have hated to shoot the damn thing, but I can see why the man did it. So, no, I dont think it was the desire for his 15 mins.

But what do I know?

Phaenx

It's acceptable to shoot a threatening animal, killing someones pet under false pretenses is another story. I don't know the truth, so I will respond to the situation with an indifferent: "meh."

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phredgreen

okay... i have a strong opinion about these animals. i live in an apartment complex populated by some real winners... and for some reason, there are a massive amount of people with pitbulls. i'm not gonna make any generalizations about the owners or their ethnic backgrounds, but i feel like they have this pet as one more "accessory" to give them the necessary "cred." it's maddening, because they walk these huge fucking animals (or is it the other way around the way they're pulled about) and all hell breaks loose when two dogs catch sight of eachother. the worst is in the middle of the night when these fucking creatures go absolutely barking crazy after eachother. we have had so many problems with these animals, animals that were "harmless sweethearts of a dog" up and attacking their owners or even worse, the owners' children. it's too fucking much. there are appropriate dogs for appropriate people. little thug wannabes don't need attack dogs. it's just as threatening as if they were brandishing a knife or a gatt. it's bullshit and they're doing harm to these animals by keeping them in an atmosphere that is inappropriate for them. apartments aren't big dog friendly.

i think there need to be stricter controls on large attack animals. it's one thing to have a fucking lapdog, but when you see people getting dragged around by potentially dangerous animals, it's too much.

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BBtB

I tend to agree with phredgreen on this one. We require people to register to own a gun so why not a large and possibly dangerous dog?

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seretogis

We do? Since when?

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Stiltzkin

My best bud has two rotweillers, and those dogs are pretty damn big. Thing is that the whole family showers them with love, so they don't even know how to react to a negative situation. You could smack one of those dogs and it won't bite you. People raise their pets, believe it or not. Dogs do have personalities, just thats some of us are too narrow-minded to realize it. Bad dog = bad owner (although not 100%, as dogs aren't as intelligent as we are, but even then we still have murderers and rapists and outher such scoundrels...) Its just a fact of life, deal with it.

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mtsgsd

small rant here.
When are people going to realize that it's not the fucking dog, or the fucking gun, knive etc. It's what these assholes do with them. The dogs are that way because the owners want them to be that way. Pit's are in style, so that's what gets the rep. If another dog gets fashionable, you'll be saying the same thing about them after a while. These are not "attack dogs" btw. That's just more urban mythology that we get stuck with by a media thats loves sensational headlines.

Wake up people. There is no such thing as a dog that's pre-programmed to attack everything in sight. No pre-programmed blood lust genecticaly encoded into them. Even a golden retreiver can be trained to attack.

Start putting the blame where it belongs for crying out loud. Of course that would mean that we'd actually have to confront the people, and make them accountable for their actions right? Not exactly PC, or comfortable to do is it? Much easier to blame the dog or weapon.

bullgoose

I couldn't agree more; my dog is one of the nicest, sweetest-natured animals I've ever encountered. We got him when he was 5 weeks old; too young to leave his mother, really, but there wasn't any choice. He was one of eight in the litter; I was able to keep tabs on 4 of his brothers; they all turned out to be real nasty customers, but that was because they were abused and neglected by their owners; they were beaten, chained out in the rain with no shelter, ignored for days and not fed or watered; if I had been treated that way, I'd have been sociopathic; they just got defensive.
My dog has always been a member of the family; we treat him with love and respect and he reciprocates. That's not to say he won't bark at you if you come in my yard, but he's just letting me know you're there and telling you to mind your manners until I say you're OK. He's my best friend; he asks nothing of me I don't gladly give. He just had his sixteenth birthday; he doesn't play with his frisbee as much as he did, I don't think he sees as well as he used to, but he's in really good shape for an old dog; I know he won't be around too much longer, but he will be well remembered by myself and my children and their children; he's pretty popular in my family, but it was the way he was raised; it's never the dog; it's ALWAYS the master that determines how a dog acts; it's beyond me how someone can intentionally make a dog mean.

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WhoaitsZ

okay guys..... you know I'll be putting on my battle armor since we have an animal issue.

but, and before i read the replies cuz god knows ever animal post so far has left me frustrated, i wanna say this:

the media tells us what they know we are interested in. people are affraid (and rightfully so) of large dogs. since people fear the beast,, they will listen to the media for the latest info.

i mean, hell, remember all the shark bullshit? there were no more 'attacks' that summer than any other year. its just that the media realized people were scared of it, saw profits, grabed the topic and ran with it.

so, more likely than not, the increase is not the dogs.... its the media taking advantage of a citizens' fear.

PS: believe me. i'll be ready to war for the dogs soon.

yournamehere

I agree that owners are responsible for the behavior of their dogs, but I'm going to go in another direction here and say that there are certain dogs that are prediposed to being dangerous.

Yes - you could turn a Golden Retriever into an attack dog, but it would take a lot more work than usual, because Goldens do not naturally exhibit that kind of behavior, unless they feel threatened.

Pit Bulls are especially dangerous because of the power of their jaws, and the severity of the wounds they can inflict - especially on children. I know there are thousands of Pit Bull owners out there who will say, "But my dog is so friendly - it would never harm anyone," but unfortunately, that same quote seems to be in every newspaper story involving a Pit Bull attack, and I truly believe that there is something in their genetic makeup that causes a few of them to snap and just "lose it" every now and then. Christ - less than a year ago, three Pit Bulls killed <i>and ate</i> their owner 50 miles from here. And her ex-husband wondered what she must have done to cause it, because "our dogs wouldn't do nothin' like that" unless provoked!!!!. Of course not, Bubba. Perhaps she under-seasoned their dog food. Or had the wrong music on the radio.

Let's face it - certain breeds carry certain, deliberate traits, and a big apology to all you Pit Bull owners out there, but the world would be a better place if there were less Pit Bulls and more Golden Retrievers. Yeah - I'll catch flak for that, but that's my opinion.

Now - getting back on thread here - I think anyone has a right to protect their property against any legitimate threat. If you don't want your dog shot, keep it on your own property.

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Steph

I completely agree with phredgreen. I live in a rough area of Toronto and constantly have to protect my Lab from other dogs that lunge at him. If your dog isn't socialized, why walk him on busy streets???

william

Petie was a Pit Bull (Little Rascals). Dogs are trained to be the way they are. it doesn't matter if you're talking Pit Bull, Rottweiller, Doberman, or whatever. Dogs feed off of their environment.
I own a Shar-Pei. If you read the books, this is a dog that can go either way - very friendly; very mean. And she can. But she was trained to be mean before I owned her. I've had this dog for about 2 1/2 years now - she is becoming friendlier to others. Does this mean she would shirk her duties to protect the family? I doubt it. Basic insticts will always rule in a dogs life

But if you train a dog to be mean, it will.

kurty[B]

I have a rottweiler/blue heeler. Nicest dog I know. He's an indoor dog, and lives with me and 5 other roommates so he's almost always getting attention. He can get rather defensive with strangers, or protective over girls, but the worst I've seen him do is stand and bark at somebody from five feet away.

One time I was sitting on my porch with him, and the mailman came up. My dog got in his defensive bark at the top of the steps, and the mailman (old and disgruntled) almost looked like he was gonna have a heart attack and whipped out a container of mace and started screaming "I'll spray him!! I'll spray him!!"

I understand what he might go through everyday, and know it's not really either of ours faults. But, I would've been extremely angry if he maced my pup, especially with me watching, and I probably would've done something even worse to him after that. Which wouldn't have been good at all. I thought I had a point, but apparently I didn't.

lurkette

yournamehere - I'll be the first to throw some (mostly gentle) flak in your direction:



All the same, because these dogs are known to have some temperamental characteristics that could predispose them to aggression, people who own them should be held to a higher standard of responsibility. Even the most notorious breeds have a large proportion of temperamentally submissive animals who can be socialized and trained to be perfectly polite. If you can't train and control a dominating dog, you shouldn't have one. But don't blame the dog.



As people have said above, is this perception based on science or on the media hype that talks about every pit bull attack and leaves us all with the impression that these dogs are monsters waiting to snap?

Quote:

Let's face it - certain breeds carry certain, deliberate traits, and a big apology to all you Pit Bull owners out there, but the world would be a better place if there were less Pit Bulls and more Golden Retrievers. Yeah - I'll catch flak for that, but that's my opinion.

In fact, most dogs that bite or kill are mixed breeds. When police, witnesses or victims are asked to estimate the breed, they usually focus on the notorious ones. If they look like they have chow or pit bull in them, that's what they're listed as. My dog looks like a chow but has more border collie and black lab in her. But what people see is "chow" and they're scared of her despite the fact that she's really a big chickenshit.

Now there I agree with you.

That said, most dogs that bite are actually small dogs - poodles, cocker spaniels, etc. People don't train them because they're just sooooo cuuuuuute and everyone knows they're loving family dogs who would never hurt anyone. Pfft.

Here's some info about the bad rap given to big dog breeds:

http://dogs.about.com/library/weekly/aa100102a.htm

While they're most likely to inflict fatal wounds because of their size and physiology, if they do attack, they actually account for a very small number of dog attacks.

And her's a truly horrifying story about a Pomeranian, of all breeds:

"The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictibility is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed"
from http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

Bottom line: personal responsibility. Emphasis on the person.

WhoaitsZ

how about we start killing owners of dogs who leave their territory to cause harm to others?

i do agree mostly with phred.

one thing that would be a good idea would be to have "no dog zones" maybe. or like "no dog over 70 lbs" zones.

what gets me upset is i own a great/dane boxer. if you touch me, yes, he iwll fucking kill you. but if you don't touch me, he's sweet.

anyhow, there definatly need to be some rules.

ALSO, anyone breeding dogs should have their dogs taken away. all of these dogs were man-made to kill.

its sad when we fuck up and just kill the beast. you fuck up.. i say we kill You.

there are some nasty dogs out there, some who need to be put down. same goes for people.

eribrav

I want to hear some follow up on this - - what charges were leveled against the dog's owner?

If that dog was on my property pulling that crap, I wouldn't hesitate to off him either. I would then call animal control, tell them a dog had been killed because of the OWNER'S stupidity, and let them handle the matter from there. That the dog had to die really is tragic; the owner is 100% responsible and must face the consequences.

Tirian

When I quoted this message, I had a hard time deciding which bits of it to remove for size. Please scroll up an re-read the entire message, as I agree with it all.

When I was a teen, my neighbor (also a teen) had a pitbull that got in trouble with a porcupine. Him and I pulled the quills out ourselves as we could not afford a trip to the vet, and the dog did not hurt either of us. But I still agree now with the quote above.

When I was a boy growing up in prairie farm country, the established method of dealing with an aggressive dog was with the nearest rifle. If a dog came on your property and attacked any living thing that lived there, you simply shot it. When the neighbor asked what happened to his dog, you say "I had to put it down, as it was ..." The neighbor would then apologies for his dogs bad behavior, and offer to pay for the bullet.

Seriously WTF has happened. Dogs should be on the "one strike" rule.

warrrreagl

I'm behind mtsgsd all the way in this rant. I'm currently looking for a dog, and mtsgsd and his wife have been incredibly helpful and courteous about making sure I decide on the right breed.

Responsible owners is the key to this story.

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LittleOralAnnie

I had a friend with a Pitbull once. He was the sweetest and gentlest dog you could ever want around. He was loyal, and never caused harm to anyone because he was treated great and given lots of attention.

I personally do not believe that ALL those dogs are bad. I think alot of the way a dog reacts is due to the way it was raised and how it was treated by its owner. If it's treated bad, it will react bad, if treated good, it will be good.

Cynthetiq

aaah... our new place doesn't allow dogs... 2000 apartments of dog free bliss. I don't have to worry about barking dogs, being frightful of some "ethnically owned" canines, or even having to step over the dog crap that the dog owners don't want to pick up. Big dogs = big turds.

Now, I'm a dog owner in the past... but now I have some cats, which are quiet except for the occassional singing in the middle of the night, but for the most part at least 23.5 hours of the day, they are damned quiet.

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raeanna74

I believe some dogs are more sensitive to the "training" that the owners give it. Certain breeds will become more nasty than others when treated the same way. So much of it is in the training they receive. Number one though Big dogs don't belong in small houses or apartments. They NEED room to roam to be happy. When they are cooped up and mistreated they will be meaner. They are also more capable of causing more damage. I do agree there should be a size limit really for dogs in small apartments. For the dog's sake as well as the tenants. People should also not be allowed to have multiple dogs in apartments. When there are 2 or more dogs around then pack mentality kicks in and the human owner may end up not being the Alpha dog. It may not listen the next time the owner tries to call it off. I love dogs and cats but I would never own more than one smaller dog in my apartment if it was allowed. It wouldn't be good for the dog or safe for the kids around.

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jcookc6

Someone mentioned that dogs should be licensed like guns. As far as I know you are required by law to get a dog license in most places.

merkerguitars

Yes there are mean dogs out there....a little story:
My dad was riding motorcycle......a dog jumped out of the ditch and bite his leg and my dad had to get him off his leg by kicking him in the head. Which in turn made the dog lose about 3/4 of it's teeth. So my dad contacts the dogs owner and we want to kill the dog, (it needed to be) well the kid wouldn't let us and this dog never had shots in its life.....later on the township demanded it to be put to sleep...justice was served

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krwlz

Well. hand guns (unforunatly) are registered. I would be revolting if they pushed it any further though...

WhoaitsZ

for the one or two people who firmly believe that a whole species should cease to exist due to violence, I suggest you kill yourself cuz yer human, by FAR the most violent and cruel organism to ever live on the planet.

for those who are more sensible and are not too sure, here are a few quick tips:

1) be careful at all times with any animal, especially dogs. dogs can sense your fear.

what does fear make people do? it makes people panic. what do panicked people do? really stupid shit.

you may be violent or many things, if you're scared then the dog is scared and must protect himself.... you know, like we do.

2) I went to look up a list of dogs but just simply stopped cuz there are so many...... but from what i remember: breeds to be wary of

German Shepherds, Dalmations, Chow Chows, and many say wolves have a very high turning rate.

3) violence really is very genetic in dogs. if they were bred to fight, they most likely will also.


just use your head... there is no reason to start murdering dogs.

livingitup101

my poodle will kick anyone's pit bulls ass.

onezero1

I have to agree with LittleOralAnnie on this. Ive rasied lots of differnt dogs and the most inportant thing is the first year of a dogs life and how its trained hows its cared for how its Socialized and given attention!

I know people with Pits who have calm lovable dogs <shrug>

Just my 2 cp

Lark

Somenosuke

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yournamehere

Well since I'm the only one who suggested it, I'll assume this was aimed at me.

First, Pit Bulls aren't a species - they're just one of hundreds of breeds of the canine species.

And I wasn't singling out Pit Bulls due to violence - Hell, <i>all</i> dog attacks are violent. I was talking about the ferocity and the nature of injuries that Pit Bulls are capable of inflicting. And their unpredictability.

I said <i>"Pit Bulls are especially dangerous because of the power of their jaws, and the severity of the wounds they can inflict - especially on children."</i> If a child gets bit by a German Shepherd or even a Rottweiler, they'll have puncture wounds, usually (not always) on their extremities. And most breeds will not press an attack after a bite. On the other hand, I had a friend whose 7-year old son was attacked by a Pit Bull, and it tore most of his face and part of his stomach off his body. And it wouldn't stop attacking him and a few people who intervened until it was shot. That 's a hell of a lot different than getting a dog bite!

I'm sure most Pit Bulls will live out their lives without ever biting a human - but then again, so will most sharks - that doesn't mean I want some compensating moron dumping one in my pool.

You're entitled to your opinion, but there's no way you will ever convince me that this breed's dangers don't far outweigh their usefulness.

And please forgive me if I don't off my violent human self just cuz you suggested it.

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Tirian

for me ....

dog life <> human life.

in fact ...

entire breed of dog life <> human life

that's just the way I see things.

Bill O'Rights

This was my exact quote from RAMONES!!! previous post on dog attacks:

<i>"I'm gonna get flamed like '76 Pinto on this one. Pit Bulls need to be banned and the breed eradicated. That said, these animals are an unpredictable breed and, in my opinion, dangerous as hell. Owning one of these animals is like leaving a loaded .357 on the floor of a daycare center...it's <b>asking</b> for tradgedy to ensue. Here in Omaha there have been numerous Pit Bull attacks. Always on the news clip is some mullett sportin', Walmart shoppin', NASCAR watchin' (sorry race fans), stained t-shirt wearin', Pabst Blue Ribbon swillin', trailer livin' refuse of the universe saying to the reporters that "He was always such a good dog. Real friendly...never bothered nobody." [fade to the blood soaked sidewalk] If further proof is needed of the need to eliminate the Pit Bull breed, just ask the Florida Power and Light meter reader for her opinion. Or, for that matter, anyone that's had a child killed, screaming in agony, while being mauled to death by one of these spawns of Satan. It's happened in Omaha on several occasions. O.K...flame away. Just don't acuse me of being an animal hater. I love my Shelty almost as much as my kids, and the cat's kinda cool, too. Oh, and btw, "Pit Bull Nazi" has kinda been overdone as well, just to let you know."</i>

My stance on this has not changed. Yes, <b>any</b> dog can be vicious under the right circumstances...but <b>not</b> to the degree of a Pit Bull. Most, not all, but most owners of these animals keep them as some form of status symbol ("Look how tough I am, I have a Pit Bull."), or keep them as guard dogs to protect their Meth Labs. Outside of the police or the military, I see no reason that the average citizen needs to keep one of these animals.

I have kids. Should they <b>ever</b> be attacked by a Pit Bull, not only is the dog going down, but so is the owner. And I don't care <b>what</b> kind of ass raping I get in prison.

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yournamehere

/ me high-fives <b>Bill O'Rights</b>

Coulldn't have said it better myself - and I tried - <i>twice</i>!

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Frowning Budah

Is it just me or does it seem every time a breed becomes popular then suddenly we see that breed being characterized as being a dangerous breed. We have had several Chows and they have all been sweet hearts yet statistics show them as being one of the big biters. I doubt it is the breed that is the problem.

krwlz

What happens is this: A breed becomes popular, then breeders breed the lines to close (imbreeding) then you end up with a generation or 3 of dogs with bad temperment...sucks, but oh well.

mtsgsd

Ok, what this all boils down to is you believe what you want to believe and you know what you know. The vast majority of people think they know things because of what they see in the media, or hear from other people, or based on one fucking experience. Sucks but that's the way it is.

[quote]Always on the news clip is some mullett sportin', Walmart shoppin', NASCAR watchin' (sorry race fans), stained t-shirt wearin', Pabst Blue Ribbon swillin', trailer livin' refuse of the universe saying to the reporters that "He was always such a good dog. Real friendly...never bothered nobody." [quote]

How this proves that a pit bull of correct breeding and upbringing is still vicious no matter what is beyond me. The circumstance described would indicate the exact oposite.

Emotional arguments are easy, and you don't have to think to far to make them. That's why ignorance is so damn popular in our world I guess.

Now I'm not trying to be insulting here, I'm just frustrated to see this kind of "logic" being argued all the time. My wife and I are "in" the dog world. We show and compete, and my wife used to be a breeder of German Shepherd Dogs. Hell, even GSD's are considered to dangerous by some. We know and witness the harm that this kind of "knowledge" does.

A friend of ours that breeds rotts is quiting because of this. Too many people think that they're evil and either give her shit, or want to buy fight dogs from her. Hell, they were bred to pull carts and herd origionally.

Having asshole neigbors with a certain breed or reading a newspaper article does not tell you anything about that breed.

That's all the more I'm contributing to this thread. I know it won't change minds, but I had to get it off my chest.