Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-13-2007, 10:18 PM   #41 (permalink)
Insensative Fuck.
 
Location: Boon towns of Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief
Do you have any idea how much terrorism there has been in the rest of the world, including Latin America, long before 9/11 was a twinkle in Osama's eye? Much of the rest of the world has been dealing with terrorism - some inspired by US administrations, it should be noted - for decades prior to 9/11.

I wonder who pretended ignorance of what for all those decades?
Can you name another country that has done more to combat terrorism, BEFORE 9/11 than the United States?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Menoman is my hero. He masturbates with Brillo pads. And likes it.
Menoman is offline  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:19 PM   #42 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Do you mean like Spain or Greece? Or Russia? Or what exactly do you mean by "combat terrorism?"
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 04:29 AM   #43 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menoman
Can you name another country that has done more to combat terrorism, BEFORE 9/11 than the United States?
UK and Israel come to mind.

Being vigilant against the IRA and PLO for decades seems to dwarf what the US has done.

America just gets more press, UK and Israel have done it on a daily if not minute by minute basis. I cannot say the same for the US. If you are a US national in your own country, you don't walk around where you live wondering if someone is going to blow up the car, store, building you are walking next to, they did and in still do.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 04:59 AM   #44 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menoman
Can you name another country that has done more to combat terrorism, BEFORE 9/11 than the United States?
I'm feeling historic, so I'll put them in that order with the first anti-terrorist on top:

France
Imperial Russia
Great Britian
Soviet Union
India
Israel
Spain
Italy
Sri Lanka
South Africa
Egypt
West Germany
Mexico
Columbia


All of these countries had or have major terrorist organizations working against them. Osama bin Ladin did not invent terrorism. Arabs did not invent terrorism. The US is not the only target, and we've only been in the game for a very short time in comparison to some of the others. In the post-9/11 world, Americans and American officials act very differently when overseas than they once did.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:40 AM   #45 (permalink)
Junkie
 
highthief's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menoman
Can you name another country that has done more to combat terrorism, BEFORE 9/11 than the United States?
I think the 3 subsequent posters have addressed this issue.
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.
highthief is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:58 AM   #46 (permalink)
still, wondering.
 
Ourcrazymodern?'s Avatar
 
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
(And we ain't even started yet! (heh))
__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT
Ourcrazymodern? is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 03:24 PM   #47 (permalink)
Insensative Fuck.
 
Location: Boon towns of Ohio
Yes, You've named a lot of countries none of which I'm going to believe have done more than the US.

Possibly Israel, but they don't exactly do it to combat terrorism, they do it because if they don't they'll probably die from it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Menoman is my hero. He masturbates with Brillo pads. And likes it.
Menoman is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 03:38 PM   #48 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Since you insisted here's some additional information.

Imperial Russia - created a whole new secret police force specifically to deal with anarchists in the mid 1870's. Expanded that police force to the precursor of the KGB in the 1880's and 90's after the anarchists kill Alexander II. Yeah, that's more than what we've done.

Great Britain - also faced off against the anarchists, then the Communists and then the IRA. Basically turned Northern Ireland into a police state in the 70's and 80's in an attempt to keep a lid on the IRA. Again, more than what we've done.

Soviet Union - created the high water mark that all secret police forces are measured against - the NKVD which became the KGB and is now the FSB. It was started to make sure that the Whites didn't sabotage the nation. During the 1930's they killed somewhere between 5M and 7M of their own citizens and imprisoned another 10M-18M (depending on the source), all in the name of fighting terrorism. Please explain to me how the US has done more.

Columbia - basically has ceded half the country to rebel groups to try to keep the violence down. Then there are the drug runners. Columbia is one of the kidnapping capitols of the world, and the police deal with it every day. There's an entire branch of the Columbian military supported by US tax dollars to fight the drug runners and rebels/terrorists.

So, there's my evidence. Let's see yours as to all that the US has done that equates to more than this. Compared to the rest of the world, we haven't done squat.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:07 PM   #49 (permalink)
comfortably numb...
 
uncle phil's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: upstate
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief
I think the 3 subsequent posters have addressed this issue.
/me would have said previous but you're right all the way around...
__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
uncle phil is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:30 PM   #50 (permalink)
Insensative Fuck.
 
Location: Boon towns of Ohio
The Jazz we were talking about how countries can ignore terrorism in other parts of the country. Battling terrorism in your own country is one thing, and its an expected course for governments to take.

What I'm speaking of is what countries have done more, to combat terrorism, when it's not directly against your own country. When you can ignore it, and it wont affect you, and you still do something about it.

All the examples you posted weren't about combatting terrorism, they were simply about a government policing itself.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Menoman is my hero. He masturbates with Brillo pads. And likes it.
Menoman is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:01 PM   #51 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menoman
The Jazz we were talking about how countries can ignore terrorism in other parts of the country. Battling terrorism in your own country is one thing, and its an expected course for governments to take.

What I'm speaking of is what countries have done more, to combat terrorism, when it's not directly against your own country. When you can ignore it, and it wont affect you, and you still do something about it.

All the examples you posted weren't about combatting terrorism, they were simply about a government policing itself.
Changing the paramaters from this "Can you name another country that has done more to combat terrorism, BEFORE 9/11 than the United States?" because you don't like our answers? I mean you posted before stating that "maybe Israel" but you never stated it quite like you did about "when it's not directly against your own country."
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:05 PM   #52 (permalink)
still, wondering.
 
Ourcrazymodern?'s Avatar
 
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
(uh-oh) Let's consider which countries have done the most to promote terrorism and then compare lists!
__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT
Ourcrazymodern? is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 07:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menoman
The Jazz we were talking about how countries can ignore terrorism in other parts of the country. Battling terrorism in your own country is one thing, and its an expected course for governments to take.

What I'm speaking of is what countries have done more, to combat terrorism, when it's not directly against your own country. When you can ignore it, and it wont affect you, and you still do something about it.

All the examples you posted weren't about combatting terrorism, they were simply about a government policing itself.
I don't know how you come up with the idea that we were discussing countries that have done more than the US when it comes to battling terrorism that doesn't affect them...

if that's the line of logic that you want to pursue, I think you should provide a single example of the US combating terrorism even though it had no interest in doing so. or any country, for that matter.

for one thing, I don't even know if it's possible by definition. terrorists are non-government entities. the very basis for our detaining terrorists without trial is on argument that they are not members of a recognized army. That being the case, I don't see how any act of waging a war on terrorists that weren't affecting us would be legit. I may not agree with our government's assessment of the harm wrought on us by foreign entities, but that's certainly the only legitimate claim they've put forward for us waging a war abroad on terrorism that I know of.

it seems to me that if any foreign country actually started arresting or killing "terrorists" in another country without even the most minimal claim of right to be there securing their own interests, they'd basically have no jurisdiction to even be there.

I'm confused as to how you even came up with the idea that the US is combating terrorism that it doesn't see as negatively affecting the security of the nation, pre or post 9/11.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 07:17 PM   #54 (permalink)
still, wondering.
 
Ourcrazymodern?'s Avatar
 
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
OK. Our president might be legitimate except that he was never elected and has been exacerbating terrorism worldwide. (I hope they don't come and shoot me tonight!)
__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT
Ourcrazymodern? is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 09:38 PM   #55 (permalink)
Insensative Fuck.
 
Location: Boon towns of Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
Changing the paramaters from this "Can you name another country that has done more to combat terrorism, BEFORE 9/11 than the United States?" because you don't like our answers? I mean you posted before stating that "maybe Israel" but you never stated it quite like you did about "when it's not directly against your own country."

You can think that if you want, but its not a very good arguement obviously you didn't follow this thread.

I thought it was quite obvious I wasn't talking about rogue sectors within your own country. That may be terrorism, but hardly has anything to do with the terrorism we were discussing. Like I said, that is policing your own country.

I spoke of Israel because that actually IS a part of the kind of terrorism I am speaking about, seeing as how there are how many people outside, that do not agree with israel on this or that or whatever, that want to destroy it... through terrorism.


The difference? You can ignore terrorism to a large extent when it's not in YOUR country, When it's your own citizens, you cannot ignore that.

So judging a country by saying "Oh they fought terrorism so hard" when the violence and such was from their own citizenship. Makes no sense, They HAD to do that, you can't exactly ignore that kind of terrorism.

However look at such terrorism that happens throughout much of the world everyday, largely ignored, shoved under the rug. Calling the terrorist who pulled it off a 'lonewolf' not acting on behalf of an organization. Or saying it's a fluke. Largely ignored and cast aside.



Smooth, as I see it, the main point you're trying to make is the US has never done anything to stop terrorism that doesn't enhance our situation or given us personal gain.

Like you said, anyone would be hard press to find a single government anywhere in the world who has done something like that.

Saying it like that is much too literal, obviously there will be gain for any government to put action into anything. What I'm talking about is when a government will put action into something for the betterment of others, When it would be much easier to simply ignore that it is happening.

One example of good intentions post 9/11 was to remove hussein from office. Though the foul up of the following war is awful and not what was expected. We stopped a terrorist who was destroying his own citizens. Things will often not happen exactly to plan obviously either, and yes there was benefit for the US in this. But do you think there was more benefit for the US? Or for the Kurds who are alive today and not gassed/bombed/executed? Whatever we gained, their lives I'm sure are worth more in the true light of thigns.

An example of pre-9/11 is the amazing amount of work we put into the Koreas when that was easily ignorable and the return we receive for trying to stop that violence and terrorism going both ways between the countries, is as near nothing as it's going to get for any country.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Menoman is my hero. He masturbates with Brillo pads. And likes it.

Last edited by Menoman; 03-14-2007 at 09:41 PM..
Menoman is offline  
Old 03-14-2007, 09:57 PM   #56 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
ok, you've got a weird definition going for what terrorism is and what other nations have had to do about it. I'm going to bow out of this discussion now, not even sure how it relates to the original thread before.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:47 AM   #57 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Meno, I'm going to be like smooth and walk away from this point, if you'd like to start another thread to discuss the merits of which countries put more in for anti-terrorism, maybe I'll discuss it there. But there is no reason to thread jack this thread.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:06 AM   #58 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
I'm going to prove everyone's suspicisions right that I'm not as smart as smooth and Cynthetiq and refuse to walk away. Your target is still big enough for me to hit, even if you keep moving it.

Germany cared enough about terrorism outside their own borders that they went to war over it. You might have heard about it - it's commonly referred to as WWI. That started over an act of terrorism.

The Soviets invaded Afganistan because of terrorism. They did the same thing over Finland. And they also went into Poland in the 80's at the invitation of the government to stop terrorism.

The British invaded Afganistan in pursuit of terrorists.

Ok Meno, are you going to change the terms on me again or are you ready to accept that the US government isn't quite ready to receive a collected sainthood?
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 03-15-2007, 05:48 AM   #59 (permalink)
Junkie
 
highthief's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
I'm going to prove everyone's suspicisions right that I'm not as smart as smooth and Cynthetiq ...
Now you're talking!

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.
highthief is offline  
Old 03-15-2007, 05:55 AM   #60 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief
Now you're talking!

[threadjack] Wow, is this a request to abuse my new mod powers by editing your quote or banning you? Wheee! Oh, the fun we'll have!
[/threadjack]
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 03-15-2007, 02:32 PM   #61 (permalink)
still, wondering.
 
Ourcrazymodern?'s Avatar
 
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
I have a request, Jazz. This thread started at (W) going somewhere and tying up traffic. It has since transmogrified into weirdly extrapolated thoughts regarding international terrorism, and even having participated, I don't get it. ...my request is for a closer focus.
__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT
Ourcrazymodern? is offline  
Old 03-15-2007, 08:55 PM   #62 (permalink)
Insensative Fuck.
 
Location: Boon towns of Ohio
Whether any one of those countries did more than the U.S. is up for debate, and not one I'm going to get into.

I'm stepping out, obviously as what people have said, there is different definitions of terrorism and mine is not the same. I don't understand how it isn't understood what I am talking about, perhaps others feel the same of me.

I'd rather discuss the subject rather than be jabbed at with your subtle remarks of how I change my story when you simply didn't understand what I was saying.

~outty
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Menoman is my hero. He masturbates with Brillo pads. And likes it.
Menoman is offline  
Old 03-16-2007, 05:14 AM   #63 (permalink)
Asshole
 
The_Jazz's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Do I dare suggest that we either start a new thread trying to define "terrorism" or resurect the old one? Clearly we're all WAAAAY off the reservation in this one, and this entire page is so far removed from the OP as to be worthy of it's own separate page. However, I'll leave that decision up to everyone else.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
The_Jazz is offline  
Old 03-16-2007, 05:22 AM   #64 (permalink)
has all her shots.
 
mixedmedia's Avatar
 
Location: Florida
Well, as the OP was admittedly a rant, we may have beaten this one into the ground. But I would just like to thank ironman for the pleasure of seeing "The Jackass Has Landed" pop up in my subscription window for the last week or so. It's the funniest "turn-of-phrase" that I've seen in a long while.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce
mixedmedia is offline  
Old 03-16-2007, 06:08 AM   #65 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
I'd suggest Menoman start a new thread. Menoman, make your case, define your box what it means to you. I'd be happy to give you my take on it and compare it to my own.

I'd like to bring this back to the OT, I know that there are some country leaders that fly commercial coach with little to no security. I'm trying to recall which ones do it, but cannot at the moment.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 03-16-2007, 06:12 AM   #66 (permalink)
People in masks cannot be trusted
 
Xazy's Avatar
 
Location: NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
The Clintons came to NYC regularly, sometimes to take in a show on Broadway.

I have had to go through secret service check in before. Annoying.

Imelda Marcos had that same kind of crap. Annoying.

I've even had to do it for a funeral that Corey Aquino attended. Equally Annoying.

My Icelandic friend gave me tales about the foreign nationals that would come to the US Embassy.
Clintons coming is an understatement. They would visit all the time shutting down FDR Drive, and lots of high ways. They estimated just for Hilary campaign coming to NYC there was over 2 million spent on police over time.
Xazy is offline  
Old 03-16-2007, 02:36 PM   #67 (permalink)
Junkie
 
highthief's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
I'd like to bring this back to the OT, I know that there are some country leaders that fly commercial coach with little to no security. I'm trying to recall which ones do it, but cannot at the moment.
i think the various scandanavian pms do this.
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.
highthief is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 08:14 AM   #68 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Keep him, we don't want him here, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destrox
Just dont get the idea that we all like him in the US, I still feel he somehow cheated the US elections....
It was questionable the first time, but the second time the Democrats managed to nominate the only guy less likable than him. Back to the Dukakis era of running candidates who can't possibly win (a strategy briefly co-opted by the Republicans when they ran Bob Dole in 1996.)
MSD is offline  
Old 03-18-2007, 05:43 PM   #69 (permalink)
still, wondering.
 
Ourcrazymodern?'s Avatar
 
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
(?) ... (?) ...sir?
__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT
Ourcrazymodern? is offline  
 

Tags
jackass, landed, rant

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:05 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360