james t kirk

I came across this video on another board.

I can't believe that this sort of thing actually happens in this day and age. It breaks my heart to see what we humans (and the Japanese in particular) do to dolphins.

Unbelievably cruel. There is no need for hunting Dolphins in my humble opinion, and the cruelty here is just sickening.

Warning, this link is graphic and extremely upsetting (to me anyway)

http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin

spectre

Jesus. That's just horribly and unnecessarily cruel. What's even worse is a couple of those guys seemed to be enjoying it.

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jorgelito

I don't get it. What purpose does it serve?

analog

I'd bet good money that this video is a PETA product. The one-sidedness and forced emotional pandering is right on par with their usual work. Mothers and children cry out while separated? Writhe in agony? What people don't realize is that these are lame ploys.

The quickest way to kill any animal, other than straight decapitation, is slicing it's throat open. It's actually a pretty quick death if done deep (correctly) enough. The main arteries that feed the brain are cut, and loss of consciousness can come within seconds of completely interrupted blood flow to the brain. Realize that all the "writhing" you see is the body's electrical activity and muscle contractions, having nothing to do with being conscious, let alone alive. For example, the human heart can beat outside of the body, attached to nothing at all, for up to 20 minutes. That does not mean anything is alive. It simply means that there are electrical impulses still firing within the tissue. Mammals can be dead for some time before all electrical activity ceases. Humans in a morgue can have random impulses so complex that a cadaver can sit up from laying on a gurney. Of course, it is a random electrical pulse and so the body then falls back down because there's nothing to keep it aloft.

Videos with narratives like this are designed to mislead, to pull at your heart strings, because those that create them have an agenda to push. Sure, dragging the dolphin before killing it is inhumane, but first and foremost- the world is full of assholes. Assholes come in every shape and size, and every profession. Getting video of a few assholes hacking at a dolphin doesn't mean jack squat. Regardless, look to the animal kingdom as a whole- humans, as a species, are one of the most humane to their prey. The ones who kill their prey faster, only do so out of a natural advantage to overcome their prey- like snakes having venom, to instantly kill (or simply immobilize, in some cases) their prey because chasing them down would be much harder, and they have no appendages with which to grab.

So all in all, if you buy into the video for face value, you might be upset. Taking things like "facts" into consideration, you might see reality a bit clearer. That's the lesson to be learned here.

Willravel

They aren't good fishermen, that's for sure. I've never seen anyone dragging a swordfish or shark behind a truck still alive. It's confusing. Just one quick lance to the brain and the dolphin is dead and isn't going to feel pain. What idiot allows the creature to live while removing meat? It's stupid. If they were slaughtering cows, they wouldn't do this. They'd kill them instantly so as to avoid any danger as the animal thrashes about.

To get something straight, these animals are eaten. They aren't being tortured for amusement or anything of the sort, they are our food. If you are going to suddenly feel a great well of pity for the animals because you love flipper or you've heard that dolphins are intelligent, then I suggest that you stop eating lamb. Maybe you should stop eating pig and cow, too. The death of any creature is something to mourn, but it's a necessary part of the life cycle and to ignore that is to ignore the fact that without these animals most of us wouldn't have muscle tissue to speak of (as most of us aren't vegan and wouldn't get enough protien from non-meat foods).

skier

willravel, Just to make things clear, sheep are basically the dumbest livestock that we breed for meat. They are several orders of intelligence lower than dolphins, or horses, or even cows. it kind of seemed to me that you were implying we shouldn't eat lamb because they are intelligent. (although grading animals by intelligence towards their eatability seems a little asinine to me)

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Carno

I don't mourn when an animal is killed; I thank the human technology that ground up their little bodies and brought them to me in bun sized patties.

Willravel

I was equating the importance of their intelect with the importance of the show flipper. Yeah, sheep are really really dumb. Pigs are a little dumber than dogs, though. Still, it's all food. That's the bottom line. Yeah, it can be greusome work, but it's all for the sake of continuing to live. We eat to live, just as dolphins eat fish to live and those fish eat kelp.

Carno

^ Huh, I've always heard pigs were much smarter than dogs.

Willravel

It's doesn't really matter for the discussion. The point is that we eat dumb and smart animals just the same on a daily basis. Juoquin Phoenix won't change that with a weak handed attempt to illicit sympathy.

jorgelito

I didn't know they ate dolphins, I had never heard of that before. Are you sure?

Willravel

Sarcasm? Dolphin meat has been eaten for a long time and dolphin dive hunting is centuries old in Japan.

Menoman

I agree, I do feel for them when they are killed incompassionately, or left to slowly die with a less than lethal means of killing.

But I can't feel any different for dolphins than I do the cow, chickens, pigs, or deer (which I kill and butcher myself).

Yes, you can get dolphin in the states as well as whale and shark. I've had shark and dolphin. Shark is de-fucking-licious, dolphin is probably ok done differently than I had it.

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MexicanOnABike

i agree, and yes shark is fucking great! although i haven't had any in a few years. it's not found anywhere.

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Infinite_Loser

...And this is why I'm glad to be a vegetarian. I don't care what anyone says, but I found that video to be mildly disturbing. It seems as if humans are the most inhumane killers on the planet.

By the way, if we eat all the dolphins then how are we going to know that we need to leave the earth before it's destroyed?

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Willravel

It's the whales that answered the really badly written aliens. Shatner's a tool.

Seaver

Ever see Mahi Mahi on the menu? Guess what, you're not eating fish.

You've apparently never seen animals kill each other. The food chain IS nature, animals die to other animals so said animals can survive and procreate. I've never understood the problem with that, and that's why I'm proud to be an omnivore.

While a lot of this might be unneeded (such as dragging it on the ground), the majority of animals slaughtered for food are quite litterally painless. Cows? They are hit with basically a jackhammer once in the forehead. It kills them within half a second, not enough time to even feel pain.

Oh yeah, and for all this love for dolphins you're loving what you know very little about. Dolphins gang-rape females they find from other packs, very often they run the females into jagged rocks if her pack tries to find her and get her back. They will pair up (even up to 6 males) to hold females hostage that they find. If the female is pregnant they will guard her 24/7 until she gives birth, then kill the baby in order to induce fertility quicker (no breast feeding).

Don't get me wrong, I love dolphins. They are intelligent and friendly (to humans), however the persona of sea-angels is completely false.

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jorgelito

Sarcasm? Not at all. I've simply never heard of that. None of my Japanese friends has ever mentioned dolphin meat, nor have I ever seen it on a menu. When I lived in Japan, I never heard of it either. I've heard of the whale thing in Japan and Scandinavia, but whale meat isn't very popular at all in Japan. *shrug*

Guess what? Yes you are eating a fish. Mahi mahi is a fish.

Seaver

Actually you're right, I just looked it up. Apparently it's a "dolphin fish." Don't know what the heck that means, but since it's cold blooded it's a fish.

http://www.ocean.udel.edu/mas/seafood/mahi.html

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jorgelito

Yeah apparently it's real popular sporting fish cause it's feisty and fights well; it's delicious too. Check out the pic, it's an interesting looking fish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahi_mahi

Have you ever read Hemingway's "Old Man and the Sea"? I believe he mentions dolphin fish in it.

I've eaten shark, it's ok, I guess it depends on the species. Never had dolphin though, unless some of it has ended up in my can of tuna (dolphin safe?). I always thought they were endangered and thus protected. But now I'm curious what it tastes like.

Willravel

Yeah, I wasn't sure. Yes, there are many places around the world where dolphin isn't just legal, but is popular. In Japan it's been that way for quite some time, but recently (the last 25 years) it's become less popular because of the dolphin's role in pop culture (flipper, dolphins are intelligent, etc.). Dolphin meat has different (the good: something like 92% calories from protien, the bad: high in cholesterol) nutritional values than fish, which also makes it important.

And yes Mahi Mahi is dolphin-fish, which is not a mammal. It's a ray-finned fish, and it's a dolphin in name only. Dolphin meat, on the other hand, goes quite well with mustard.

james t kirk

Man, some of you are cold blooded Machiavellians - "Well it's food" and if I eat it, it's ok. Doesn't matter how that food is arrived at.

Yeah, but....

Why not start torture killing dogs for food. I mean, there are plenty of stray dogs around. (Yes, I know in some parts of the world, they do eat dogs too.)

Just because that is so, doesn't make it right.

The animals that are killed here in the west are killed as humanely as possible (if there is such a way) I have to believe that a cow killed in a slaughter house is killed quickly and with some consideration.

These dolphins were tortured. I can't accept that unlike some of you.

I'd also like to believe that animals such as Dolphins and whales which are intelligent, warm blooded, magestic animals get a pass on dying for a delicacy dinner.

We live in a cruel world, no doubt about it, I am just hoping that it could be a little less cruel than it is.

Carno

Torture killing dogs? What the...? Who said anything about torture?

Please tell us your plans to stop the hunting of dolphins.

To make things clear, I'm not into subjecting animals to unnecessary pain. I don't enjoy seeing an animal die slowly.

That said, I will eat any animal, no matter how cute and furry, intelligent or majestic they may be. I'm smarter than they are, and they have tasty little bodies.

abaya

Nope. Only if you're getting it from a halal slaughterhouse (halal is the Arabic word for the way meat-animals are killed in a ritually respectful manner)... and that ain't very Western, is it?

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analog

I guess you skipped my post about how what's going on isn't torture, and how you're being brainwashed to believe it is.

If you don't want to believe that, then think about it as simple economics- why wouldn't they want to kill them as quickly and efficiently as possible? Who wants to stand around waiting for an animal to bleed to death because you couldn't just do it right, immediately?

The fact of the matter is, your opinion on this issue has been fed to you, pun intended.

Carno

You think a halal slaughterhouse is humane just because the animals are killed in a ritually respectful manner?

Willravel

I agree wholeheartedly, except for the video of a dying dolphin being dragged by a truck so that it's skin is ripped off and it bleeds to death faster. That's torture. They don't do that to pigs or cows.

Otherwise, I totally agree, though.

analog

A good point. Seppuku is ritually respectful killing, but hardly humane.

Well yeah, but I covered that earlier in my "the world is full of assholes, and assholes occupy every profession in the world" commentary.

And I agree, that's a terrible thing to do. There's no reason for it.

Toaster126

What criteria do you use for determining whether something is fit to be hunted and/or eaten? Are you against all animal killing, certain kinds of animal killing, or just dolphins?

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aberkok

Toaster, see above. I don't see any ambiguity.

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Ourcrazymodern?

Being omnivores I think we share with pigs and dogs and bears and dolphins and others of all sorts. Wasn't the cruelty in the killing a big part of the issue?
Slaughterhouses I've seen seem to get the job done without too much fuss. I'm relieved that others are willing to do the killing for me, though, because otherwise I'd have to make do on rice and beans, and I love a good steak once in a while.

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james t kirk

Better look out, cause I'm probably smarter than you and you might taste just fine deep fried with a little gravy.

Please spare me the condescension.

My opinion has NOT been force fed to me by anyone. It's simply my reaction to seeing animals, intelligent animals, needlessly suffer. It is simply how I react.

There are no absolutes in life (food = ok to kill regardless). Hence the reason I do not agree with killing animals in a barbaric fashion as being justified based on whether it is for food, or fur, or sport.

guthmund

Just about anything tastes good deep fried with a little gravy; Carno no exception, I'm sure.

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politicophile

The intelligence scale is problematic, primarily because of its implications about the relative status of humans with severe retardation and, say, pigs. That's a hard line of argument to swallow...

As for the dolphin video, the killings looked somewhat inhumane to me. There surely was a period of great pain during the course of the dolphins being removed from the water and brought to the warehouse where they were killed. Had they taken the dolphins out of the water and immediately shot them in the head, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Here, however, the specific execution of the, er, execution struck me as somewhat less than ideal...

In principle, I don't have a problem with the killing of dolphins, but it must be done in as painless a way as possible.

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Carno

Hahahaha..... Well, you are certainly welcome to try to find out.

mixedmedia

I just want to interject that there are fish called dolphin and then there are the aquatic mammals also known as dolphins, which are related to whales and porpoises. I didn't watch the video so I'm not sure which ones are being referred to here. Inhumane slaughter of animals for food is nothing new nor something I'd particularly like to witness. From what has been described here, though, I'd venture that this is an isolated incident and not a systematic method of meat procurement.

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analog

Given that the animal kingdom's food chain is ruled by ability to kill to survive and sheer power over other animals, and not strictly how smart an animal is, I'd say your brain wouldn't help you against the training Carno has.

Two quick things, to clear up misunderstanding:

1: I wasn't condescending to you. I said your opinion is faulty based on a brainwashing-style video. The fact that the video is aimed at brainwashing you is my opinion. I am not calling you stupid or weak or anything. I'm telling you we differ in opinion on the legitimacy of the video, and consequently I believe your subsequently derived opinions are, in my opinion, false. I'm not arguing with you, I'm disagreeing with you.

2: I didn't say force-fed. I said fed. As in, they make up a tasty-looking dish of false, brainwashing propaganda, and you ate it whole. Your reaction is based on what you think you see- perception is reality, but perception is not always truth. I disagree that what you think you saw is what you actually saw.

There's no argument here, just differing opinions, so let's not turn it into one please, ok?

Hanxter

there's a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the potatos... please pass the gravy!!!

spectre

Pride is a dangerous thing my friend. Your point would be better made if you attacked the post and not the poster. Attacking the poster only weakens your position by making it look like you can't back up what you're saying with facts and are forced to just yell and scream.

You saw my earlier post, so you know I'm not attacking you because of your stand on this, but I think you're hurting your cause by letting the argument be petty instead of arguing the point that you were trying to make.

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smooth

this was written two years ago:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ld/3956355.stm


Things that stood out to me:
I've read in various places that it's considered pest control, and not food source (doesn't change the fact that people do eat them, just not as a widespread delicacy)
in fact, the article points out that few people in japan knew that dolphins were eaten
dolphins are intelligent creatures, socially complex, and that counts for something in my opinion. I don't eat primates, for example, but I hear that some do. I don't think I'd eat an elephant. or a bengal tiger. I don't eat bald eagles or fry their eggs for breakfast.

I think I'd rather that some creatures are not hunted into extinction.
and that was clearly stated as a growing problem in this article

and willravel, infinate_loser is right...check your references
how are we going to know? better grab your hitchhiker guide and bone up...

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