Seaver

You consider a halal slaughterhouse more humane than the western industrialized version? In industrialized methods the cow is knocked unconscious before the throat slit. In halal they are still live and awake. And I've seen first hand the halal method, and I see it no more "respectful."

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Carno

Not to mention hanging upside down by one of their legs.

Sweetpea

*ugh* and horriffic.

some things are just not okay. Each person has to decide for themselves what they can accept and what they cannot. Wether or not this vid. was made to pander to people's emotions, it's not okay what is occuring.

As to the "I eat it, it tastes good..." individuals. *shrug* Don't fault me for putting some awareness into my eating habits. Yes, I'm one of those people who buys free range eggs because they are allowed more space than the normal chicken raising practices. Yes, I buy organic free range beef too. No, I don't eat pork because they haven't established any free range practices.
I have to eat, yes. but what sets me apart what sets Humans apart from animals is our ability to have awareness and compassion...
And it's my choice to have that awareness about the animals I eat. It's my choice to chose a more humane way of life for my food. Some of you may find it silly, to have compassion for another living creature, food or not.

sweetpea

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Villar perosa

Woa Woa wtf, this is quite propoganda and it is pretty much one sided BS, but is that necessary? The awnser is yes. This method is inhumane but USE UR DAMN BRAIN!!! Cows are slaughtered like this too and we eat those fuckers right up, dont we? Almost all large fish are killed this way. Why? Because as said the best way to kill it is to cut the throat. It is better than just letting it just sit there and suffocate a even slower death, and these bastards got a lot of nerve of saying that the Japanese violate treaties because so does every major and small nation because of massive population growth. The japanese are plentiful, so where do they look for plentiful food, BONG the ocean!

Menoman

I hardly find your reasoning behind what you choose to eat a reason to paint those who do eat the normally slaughtered, normally raised animals, into being non-compassionate.

Basically the vibe I'm getting from your post.

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aberkok

I don't see what's so difficult to understand, Menoman. It is better to use your money to support a system of production that is ethical. If I'm interpreting sweetpea's post correctly, all she's really saying is that being more compassionate about what we eat is... more compassionate.

I think she brought it up because there's definitely a contingent in here who doesn't seem to want to look past their taste buds. I know some of it is in jest, but enough already...it's just not funny anymore (and I don't mean "not funny" as in I'm offended, but "not funny" as in this joke has been overdone...stop flogging a dead horse).

Oh and by the way...does everyone know that animals' throats are slit while still alive because if the heart stopped the blood would get pumped out of the body? Otherwise it'd be impossible not to have completely bloody meat. With a sharp enough blade it can be a pretty painless experience. I'm more concerned with the quality of life than the quality of the death.

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Menoman

I never said I don't understand the point being made. I'm also not going to argue ethics about an animal lower on the food chain dying, in any way shape or form.

I thought it was being said in a way that portrayed the people who don't care about how their food is made, as incompassionate. Maybe it wasn't meant like that. I watch that video, and ya I have a tinge of feeling poorly for the dolphins, or whatever else PETA sponsored video you wanna throw my way. Doesn't mean I'm going to care enough to stop it. Simple matter of I would rather eat them, than worry about if they were killed correctly. Either way, they be dead.




And no, they don't cut the throat while its alive because of the blood, perhaps thats a small side bonus, but the blood comes out no matter how you feel like killing the animal.

The blood easily leaks away during butchering and the rest cooks away on the grill, in the pan.. etc

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Sweetpea

thank you aberkok, you summed up my post succinctly.

In WA state where I live, consumers are given the choice. On most products, we are offered the average raised product and then next to it, the tiny bit more expensive free-range-organic choice, which is in my opinion paying a little bit extra so your food had better quality of life. Btw, at least in this state, it is certified, so it's not just a label slapped on to make an extra few cents.

All I'm saying is... given that choice, if you are given it as a consumer, why WOULDN'T you choose the free-range-organic product?? Unless you literally don't have the extra 10 bucks or so a month that it takes to go free-range-organic, I don't see why everyone isn't making that choice for their food to have better quality of life. But if you have that extra 10 bucks a month, why not make that choice?

and aberkok, you make an excellent point, I care more about their quality of life while they are living than the manner of their death. nicely put.

Do I feel it's ethical to care about the quality of life of my food? Yes, I think it's my duty as a intelligent and compassionate consumer when given the choice and when possible to enable my food to have had a better life.

*shrug* It's just something I happen to care about, if it's not something another indivdual cares about, I cannot change that person's mind, I can only lead my life the way I see fit for myself.

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aberkok

Of course the next step is to really find out where your food is coming from. For example, I've learned that just because free range chickens have the option of going outside, they don't necessarily take it. Also, a lot of organic vegetables are grown in mono-cultures, which isn't great for soil cultivation. I still think mediocre organic farming is often way better than large industrial models, but it's worth looking into the chain of production.

I can't say enough good things about The Omnivore's Dilemma, a great book that turned me on to these topics. It's by a guy named Michael Pollan, an investigative journalist. Here's the blurb:

He addresses a lot of questions like the ethics of vegetarianism, hunting, buying organic food....this is a must read for anyone who cares about what they put in their body. And if you think this is some granola-crunching, hemp wearing rant, think again.

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Glory's Sun

I'm failing to see how quality of life is a factor when both groups (free-range, jam packed) are purely bred, controlled, whatever for the purpose of... dying to feed people. If the animal is bred to die.. it's going to die. Why should I pay $3 dollars more for an egg that came from a chicken that had 2 extra feet to roam?? Food is food.

Sweetpea

Well, I can't answer that for you, for the sheer fact that you are probably along the lines of thinking that animals because they are deemed food have no ability to feel pain, panic or the like. Is that a correct assumption?

I happen to believe that they do feel pain. Being housed together so closely that they cannot move, has proven to cause cramping and other painful disorders in their bodies. Yes, it may be food, but does it deserve to be in pain just because we deem it so, when there is another, more humane way?

I happen to be along the lines that all living things deserve respect. Food or not. Using your examples of chickens: I believe packing them in so closely together, to the point where they cannot even lay down or turn around is just not humane.

I don't think I'm so superior as a human, that I cannot have some small amount of respect and compassion for the living circumstances of the animals I will eat.

as I said, if that isn't something that stirs you to pay an extra bit of money, that is your choice. I was merely offering my opinion to this thread.


aberkok, thanks for that linky, good stuff.

sweetpea

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aberkok

Well...maybe there's no difference in nutrition between the cheap chicken and the expensive chicken. For you, today and tomorrow, there's no difference.

But from what I learned (admittedly from that one source mentioned above), there is a bit more nutrition and in many cases, more taste in organic and naturally raised food.

You're also paying for a more sustainable system of production. Because there are less hormones and chemicals going into the the feed, there is less going into the soil as runoff from the waste. Many organic standards cover what the animal eats as well as how it is raised, so this has an impact on the soil in which the corn (or whatever crop) used to feed the animal is raised.

And that's just skimming the surface. It's amazing what people will pay for things and think their food is expensive. The price of my internet connection per month would probably help me buy into a more sustainable and nutritious chain of food production - and if I had to sacrifice that (thankfully I don't), I wouldn't think twice since we're talking about how I eat... this is no small thing. Nutrition is what keeps us from dying...shouldn't that be a priority!? Most people waste the amount of money it takes to improve their eating.

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smooth

I know people who take a more ethically-based stance, like sweetpea's, and others who take a more pragmatic-based stance, like aberkok (realizing that concerns about sustainability can also be driven by ethics--but for the sake of classifying two perspectives). I tend to take portions from both arguments, and also am concerned about the type of energy that goes into my body as fuel. Perhaps a karmic tradition, who knows how'd you classify that.

I also tend to suspect that well taken care of and so called "happy" food is better for me. For example, chickens that can expel their waste rather than living/eating/sleeping in it seem to be more yummy! From experience, I think organic food is more flavorful and, vegetables in particular, has deeper coloration, which is more aesthetically pleasing.

Almost all of my wife and my food is hand prepped and prepared. Yet, on occasion, we do eat at in-and-out or burger king.

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james t kirk

Thank you for one of the most intelligent posts out there.

We are all able to make choices in our lives. Painting things with the absolute brush is a little too simplistic for me.

I was being sarcastic.