About a million things are not said in that report - everything from position of the body to the implement used to strangle her to what she was wearing. I don't recall excatly what has and has not made it into the media, but the police will keep many such details private until such time as someone is brought to trial. The autopsy report deals strictly with the gross cause of death.

okay... correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the murder take place in the basement? if that is the case, then the body had been moved by the time the medical examiner got there. as stated in the autopsy report, the body was on the floor in the living room when the examiner arrived. perhaps, the conditions that had been kept secret are relating to this. dunno... *shrugs*

are you meaning the position of her body in the basement? (I would assume so because by the time the medical examiner got there the father had carried her upstairs and the report DOES state that position)

and it does state about the rope that was still wrapped around her neck

and it also states exactly what she was wearing, including her jewelry so Im a tad confused about what you mean?

what she was wearing

how she was strangled

that report is 9 pages long and ranges from exactly how she was at the house (in the living room) to the weights and measures of organs to every bruise and scratch on her body as well as "fluids" and blood found on her

what could it be missing?

see... the whole living room thing is suspect. if she was killed in the basement, but moved to the living room before the medical examiner got there, then there would be evidence that the cops would know that never made it into the report.

sure the postion of the body was described as the examiner found her, but perhaps when they found her in the basement she was sitting up flipping them off. you never know.

regardless, it shall be very interesting to see how this whole thing develops.

but my question still stand in regards to the part of the article I quoted...it says

graphic details about the condition of JonBenet Ramsey's body

I guess I was hoping somebody could look at that autopsy report and tell me whats missing

i don't think you missed anything from the autopsy report. i haven't read the whole 9 pages, but those things are extreamly detailed.

what i'm trying to say and no disrespect is intended here, but the autopsy report doesn't paint the whole scene as far as the entire crime. i'm sure they have left out parts from the story. they do it all the time.

but yes, it does seem a bit contradictory.

All I saw on the page you linked to was the cause of death and other marks and signs found on her body as written by the coroner or pathologist. I see there are subsequent pages available, now, but I guess that's why providing direct quotes, as you did subsequently, rather than just links works better in conversation.

At any rate, even in such extensive reports, details will be kept back until suspects are brought to trial, details that only the killer should really know. What exactly was kept back? Who knows? Maybe he left a Death's Head moth in her throat ...

if you go to the bottom of that page you could click to see the 8 other pages, the links are on the bottom left hand side of the page numbered 1-9 or you can click the "next" next to his signature on the right hand side to from page to page

**sorry I *assumed* since I said it was 9 pages that you'd notice the links to the next ones

There is lots of evidence besides the body that might have not been released.

The ones that I can think of are:

Items near the body
DNA profile of the rapist
Items found throughout the house
Blood or bodily fluids found elsewhere
Possible murder weapons

That's 15 seconds of thought for me. I'm sure that there are others. An autopsy is not and never was intended to be a comprehensive murder file.

It looks like the guy is turning out to be an innocent nut job that turned himself in. His story isn't matching up with the details of the case.

-He claims he picked her up from school, through it was Xmas break. SHe wasn't in school.
-He claims he drugged her, though the autopsy states she hadn't been drugged.
-His ex-wife claims he was with her when in happened

Being a teacher, I don't see how he could have goofed up on the Xmas break part. Maybe he needed to get out of Thailand in a hurry?

Perhaps you're assuming intentional omissions. They noted something, but didn't deem it applicable to the investigation or simply didn't think of it?

I'm entirely unconvinced he did it at this point. I had an otherwise sane friend create a story of how she was raped in the parking lot outside of our school, and somehow managed to believe it so strongly that it became true. After almost 6 months of police investigations and other things, she "realized" that she hadn't been raped after-all.

When the DNA matches, maybe.. just MAYBE.. then.

Can I ask why anyone cares about JonBenet Ramsey? Perhaps I simply don't like the media circus that's setting up in town (again), but even when I didn't live in/near Boulder, Colorado, I thought all the attention on this case was a little absurd given that lots of strange murders happen every day all over the world...

its very sad that some one has to ask why we care about the senseless murder of a little girl

What about all the other little girls that get murdered all the time? Does anyone pay attention to them? Of course not. Let's be honest here: this girl was unfortunate, but if all the others don't deserve attention neither does she.

actually....yes I do....but on another board thats specifically for true crime. Somehow I think I'd get in trouble if I started making true crime threads about all the cases that interest me.

I think it's noble that you have an interest in such cases. But guess what? Unless you're directly involved in the case, your opinions/discussions about the information regarding the case that has been released, "fact-finding", etc. are completely useless for the purpose of actually solving the cases. I'm sure there are a few cases where somebody completely unrelated to the case found some crucial evidence etc. but they are few and far in between.

Now then, if we were to discuss something we might actually have an impact on, such as how to prevent murders, I'd be all ears.

Including an episode of family guy where Peter vows to the Ramsey's that he will find and avenge the childs death. The Ramsey's reply with a shakey "no Peter, that's quite fine...:eek:"

Never was invested in the case that much but it is really refreshing to see justice at it's best. It must be something that makes even the biggest police pecismests nod in approval.

EDIT: Oberon? If anything is pointless about this discussion it is arguing wether or not it is news worthy. Like it or not this was a huge case, for whatever reason, and continues to be. And Shani's intrest doesn't need to be motivated by bring others to justice, but simply by being stimulated by the cases and the way they drawout. There are hundreds of topics discussed in the forum that are simply just to hear others opinions; not to literally further anyone in anyway other then to talk about their hobbies and intrests.

You could always begin a thread on the prevention of crime. If you don't want to post, then wait until a discussion that intrests you comes up. Until that day, don't rain on other's parades. Dig?

Okay then. I guess this particular thread tickled something in me and I had to ask... carry on.

Considering that it's a 10 year old case, and everyone involved is dead now, I don't understand the big deal anymore. It's just another case for the media to beef up out of nothing.

They don't make a big deal about this happening to other people (IE the chick from IU that disappeared on her bike). It's because of the pagent crap involved and the fact that her parents were filthy rich.

From what I've seen on TV, she wasn't happy about giving him an alibi. No matter what she has against the guy, she still has to look herself in the face in the mirror every day. Riding the karma train is better than being ran over by it.

As I understand it the only law this guy has broken is to have 5 images on his computer that were determined to be illegal. These were supposedly mixed in with all the child murder case information he was investigating. If he was in Alabama when JonBenet was murdered why shouldn't his ex-wife say so?

If the DNA doesn't match then I guess the prosecutor will probably have to have some proof he was in Boulder in spite of what his ex-wife says. From what I have read the reporters digging into this case have not been able to find evidence that he was ever in Colorado. Of course we don't know what the prosecutor has on him so maybe she can prove otherwise.

This guy is certainly troubled. It was reported on the news tonight that he was seeing a sex change doctor in Thailand.

Well it looks like the DNA didn't match.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/0....x7comug8.html

Shocker.

As an aside, a cop friend of mine told me this weekend that he and his buddies on the job all think that this guy is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame. Not that he's really in the know or anything, but it's worth something.

i think that either 1 of 3 things happened:

1.) he wants his 15 minutes of fame. i would tend to agree with this, but just by looking at the guy, he is 1000x more disturbed than your normal "i want some fame" person.

the other two ideas go hand and hand. this guy spent SO MUCH TIME reading about this case that he was almost obsessed. i believe that he either:

2.) convinced himself that he must have killed her. psychologically, it takes a fucked up mind to feed yourself with the idea of doing something so horrible.

3.) wanted to much to be the perverted lowlife who did this, that he had to confess to doing the crime even though he knew that he didnt.

either way....just by looking into his eyes you can see how fucked up the guy is. it takes a fucked up person to commit such a disgusting crime, but it takes mind that is just as fucked up (or even more so), to have wanted so much to be the man commited this crime.

He could have seen the writing on the wall as far as the child porn goes and decided to show himself as a total whackjob to get put in a hospital instead of a PITA prison.

Just a side note here...why would he want to confess to this, knowing that he would be proven innocent? Think of this, his is about to be brought up on child porn charges in Californina I believe. So if you have grandstanded yourself as a mentally disturbed person who claims to have comitted the crime of the century; what would be your defense on the child porn charges?...How about TEMPORARY INSANITY...which would get him commited to a mental institute, instead of general population risk in prison. I.E. He wouldn't have to worry about being ass-raped and then killed in prison. Personally I think he is brilliant in his idea, if not just a little sick.

I bet if he doesnt say another word to the press he could get a million dollar book deal of it.

Sex offenders are kept separate 100% of the time from the general prison population, right or wrong....Nobody will lay a hand on him

So does this mean all the people that hated the parents, and then felt bad for thinking bad things about said parents in light of the 'confession' will now go back to thinking bad things about the parents?

I'm not sure how much the child porn insanity theory holds water. He was not going to be charged with the child porn crime until after this happened. From what i've heard (unconfirmed) the pictures he had wern't exactly your typical child porn and the case probably would have been thrown out. I heard that the pictures were pictures from some of the child crime cases that he was interested in and the pictures were mostly a technicality because he could have claimed he was doing research for a book. Also what is the punishment for a first time offence of child porn?

I hope not, for a long time I've thought that it's really fucked up that people always blamed the parents. If the evidence was there, they would have charged them. It doesn't mean that there is no way they actually did it, just that they don't have enough to even charge them on it.

Free trip home...

The amount of money that was spent bringing this guy home is ridiculous... he didn't have to leave taiwan to do the dna test...

Yeah, I'm sure he did that so that he could get a free trip home.

Actually, he did. He wasn't arrested until he got to Los Angeles, which is why he was able to drink alcohol and eat well on the plane. The officers sent to get him had no power to arrest him in Thailand since their police powers don't extend outside the borders of the US. They asked him to submit to a DNA test there, and he refused. They had no way to force him to do it, so they had to wait until he got back in the country to get a court order. The Thai's deported him for falsifying his passport documentation.

He is charged in California with a misdemenor. No big deal.

Did anyone see this article from PEOPLE magazine?? He is distrubed and SHOULD NOT be allowed out and around children...

People magazine:

http://people.aol.com/people/article...449009,00.html

excerpts from John Mark Karr's e-mails and phone calls to University of Colorado, Boulder journalism professor Michael Tracey were posted Monday on the Boulder County District Attorney's Web site after the case against Karr in the 1996 slaying of JonBenet Ramsey was dropped.

The e-mails to Tracey, who has produced several documentaries about the Ramsey case supporting the theory that the 6-year-old was killed by an intruder, come from Karr's arrest affidavit. Karr was released Monday and promptly rearrested for 2001 child pornography charges.

At various points in the e-mails, Karr uses the alias "Daxis." Some excerpts:

April 2, 2006
Karr talks about his fascination with young girls: "The end of 9 years old is usually the stopping point for me due to the physical height and development of the child. In some parts of the world however I have been highly attracted to girls who were 12 though they were the size of the girls who were 8 in the U.S. I cannot say I was actually attracted to the 12-year-olds but it was a little more tempting. I am attracted to dolls. When they get past the doll stage I am no longer physically attracted."

April 19, 2006
He claims he accidentally strangled JonBenet during sex and then hit her on the head with a flashlight in case she was still suffering: "This was when the tragedy began. Seconds easily turned into minutes in the heat of passion. The deliverer, deriving unreal pleasure both emotionally and sexually, can lose track of that critical time especially with a little girl who is small and more fragile, it is easier to lose her. JonBenet was lost, or so it was believed. ... But the trauma to her head haunts me – so horrible."

May 9, 2006
"(JonBenet's parents) need to know that she had a lover named Daxis, that a dashing prince was with her when she died; that she was not viciously murdered; that I cared for her and tried to revive her when I though she was dead. I loved her so much and I am so sorry that she died in my arms. But it is important that they know WHO she was with and how she died. For instance, she did not suffer."

Sound clips of phone calls between Karr and Tracey were also released. In a July 29, 2006, phone call Tracey placed to Karr, who claimed to be speaking from his Jaguar in the driveway of the Ramsey home in Atlanta, Karr said he wanted Johnny Depp to play him in a movie and that it would make a billion dollars.

He also said of JonBenet, "I loved her so much and I am so sorry that she died in my arms." He claimed that when she died he said, " 'Oh, babydoll, please come back to me.' " Karr also told Tracey, "If it is ever revealed that JonBenet died by my hand, I would be one of the most wanted killers in history."

It will be remarkable if this guy goes from a life of relative poverty to one of wealth because of the last few weeks publicity. I wonder how many people will be waiting in line to get their copy of his new book with the infamous signature John Mark Karr?

Murderabilia is a booming business. People buy hair and toenail clippings of mass murderers. :confused:

How about just not allowed out...period?
If ever a man needed to be thrown in jail, just on general principle, and forgotten about...then we have, I believe, a candidate.
"The end of 9 years old is usually the stopping point for me..."
"I am attracted to dolls."
"(JonBenet's parents) need to know that she had a lover named Daxis."
"a dashing prince"

What...a...freak!

sooooo....what do you think about the news out today? that the entire Ramsey family has been cleared and the DNA on Jon Benet was a completely unknown male?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/09/...dna/index.html

link to the letter

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/09/...l#cnnSTCOther1

Very sad. Too bad her mom never got to know this before she died. I always thought the family was innocent.

How sad that they'll never know. Aren't the parent divorced as a result of the stress and accusations?