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Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey case

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/16/ra...est/index.html

Quote:

(CNN) -- A suspect has been arrested "for the December 26, 1996, murder of JonBenet Ramsey," the district attorney in Boulder, Colorado, said Wednesday.

A law enforcement source identified the suspect as 41-year-old John Mark Carr, a one-time school teacher. He was arrested in Bangkok, Thailand, following "several months of a focused and complex investigation," District Attorney Mary Lacy said.

Two law enforcement sources told CNN that Carr also was under investigation for an unrelated sex crime.

Carr was arrested Wednesday morning and has confessed to certain elements of the crime that are unknown to the general public, CNN affiliate KUSA reported.

An investigator with the District Attorney's office is bringing Carr to Colorado from Thailand.

JonBenet's beaten and strangled body was found in the basement of the family home in Boulder, the day after Christmas in 1996. She was 6.

JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, were consulted during the investigation, Lacy said, and the Ramsey family had been notified of the arrest. Patsy Ramsey died in June of ovarian cancer at age 49.

"It is our hope that this arrest will bring some closure to the Ramsey family after a 10-year ordeal," said the family's attorney, Hal Haddon.

JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, released a statement after the arrest. He said that his wife knew an arrest was coming when she died.

"Had she lived to see this day, would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder."

Prosecutors in Boulder are expected to hold a news conference Thursday.

A grand jury investigation into the death of the child beauty pageant winner ended without charges in 1999.

The investigation focused a spotlight on the child's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. Patsy Ramsey died in June of ovarian cancer. She was 49.

The Ramseys said an intruder committed the crime, but they remained the subject of suspicion and speculation.

In 2003 a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit against the Ramseys, blaming the police and the FBI for bungling the investigation. The Boulder County District Attorney's Office concurred with the judge's opinion the following month, saying there was little evidence against the couple

The Ramseys left Colorado and had a house in Charlevoix, Michigan, where John Ramsey unsuccessfully ran for office in 2004.

If this is true....then I apologize for 10 years of bad mouthing that poor woman

I cant wait for the press conference tomorrow

If thats true, I think alot of people need to apologize for more than just bad mouthing that poor family.

This is really wild stuff. It will sure be interesting to see who this person really is. Even more interesting would be/will be learning how they figured it out after all this time!! And way over there, to boot!!!

I must confess, I did bad mouth the family as well.

I always felt the parents were involved. For that, I also owe an apology for presuming guilt rather than innocence.

It will be interesting to learn how they finally narrowed this down after ten years.

So did most people at the time feel that the parents did the killing? I wasn't in the US back then so I've never heard of this case before..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktspktsp

So did most people at the time feel that the parents did the killing? I wasn't in the US back then so I've never heard of this case before..

It has generally been thought the parents were responsible. There have been countless jokes/parodies/etc on the whole scenario.

This is an interesting turn of events, and I also feel very bad for the parents if this comes to be true.

I NEVER thought the parents were guilty. They were enjoying dressing her up too much.

Nice to see that Patsy was aware an arrest was imminent.

I'm definitely surprised! It's nice to know that even after 10 years, they were still on the case.

I always thought a member of the family was involved. But perhaps the media slanted it that way? I never really feel like I get the whole story about anything. I hope John Ramsey had a good day, today.

I generally didn't think the family were involved.

However, and I'm probably in the minority here, I did bad-mouth the family and will continue to consider them poor parents. I think it's almost perverted the way they used that beautiful little girl as a toy doll.

What is WRONG with these people? And by "these people", I mean all those parents who push their kids into unnatural situations like children's (so-called) beauty/talent shows

So, never thought they killed her and I felt terrible for them and the hurt they must have experienced. But on the other hand, I had no respect for them as people or parents.

Mr Mephisto

It didn't take long to get this accused man on wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mark_Karr

And the Smoking Gun. (which shows a picture of him)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/jonbene..._casefile.html

I saw on the news that he has confessed to killing another child in San Diego I think. That just gives me a suspicion that this guy is full of shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ample

I saw on the news that he has confessed to killing another child in San Diego I think. That just gives me a suspicion that this guy is full of shit.

He's a registered sex offender, apparently.

Either way, it will all come out very soon. If he is the murderer, then he will know certain details about the killing that the public does not. Plus, his DNA may well match that found on Jonbenet's underwear.

If he is the killer, then I hope they put him away for a very very long time.

Mr Mephisto

Just listened to Michael Baden on the news, and he's not buying it. He believes the guy would confess to ANYTHING to avoid jail time in Thailand on sex charges. He also questions why the ransom note was still left there if she died on him at the scene.

There are so many disparate and hidden details about this case. This new arrest just adds another one. Through the media its turned into a botched treasure hunt. There are so many holes dug in the ground that we may never find what's down there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktspktsp

So did most people at the time feel that the parents did the killing? I wasn't in the US back then so I've never heard of this case before..

parents or the brother... there was a lot of suspicious behavior going on -- plus they weren't willing any awards as good parents for parading their child around on stage in beauty contests... she was 6 going on 22.

it will be most interest to see what happens.

from one of the articles i have read, it said that he had been in contact with someone in colorado about it. he was "very interested" in the investigateion... hrm... let me see if i can find it...

Quote:

By CATHERINE TSAI, Associated Press Writer Thu Aug 17, 2:34 AM ET

(snip)
Thai police said that when Karr was arrested, he denied any involvement in JonBenet's slaying. A law enforcement source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the AP that Karr had been communicating periodically with somebody in Boulder who had been following the case and cooperating with law enforcement officials.

A University of Colorado spokesman, Barrie Hartman, said journalism professor Michael Tracey communicated with Karr over several months and contacted police. The CU spokesman said he didn't know what prompted Tracey to become suspicious of Karr.

Tracey produced a documentary in 2004 called "Who Killed JonBenet?" A woman who answered the phone at a number under his name said he didn't live there anymore; his office phone mailbox was full.(snip)

dunno... sounds funny to me. can anyone say "child porn ring"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dane Bramage

dunno... sounds funny to me. can anyone say "child porn ring"?

Maybe. But, I'm not ready to go there yet. It's just to big of a jump. Let's wait and see what direction the stepping stones, that will inevitably surface, take us.

Whatever comes up, or out...I have a feeling will smell to high heaven. This ain't over by a long shot.

I saw him on the tv last night. It's always interesting to me that these guys never look like they are portrayed in the movies, they usually look a lot like me, but instead, look like the most unasuming of next door neighbors. He's just a small, timid, meek looking guy.

Bastards, may they rot in hell! Sorry, but I just hate, (maybe not the right word but you get the idea), anyone who would injure or kill a child. To me that is the epitome of cowardice.

I also hope that he, or someone, can be proven beyond doubt to be the killer. I would hate to think he is still out there somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockogre

Bastards, may they rot in hell! Sorry, but I just hate, (maybe not the right word but you get the idea), anyone who would injure or kill a child. To me that is the epitome of cowardice.

I'm paraphrasing Dennis Miller here, but no matter what kind of arguments you make for or against capital punishment, these are people who do not deserve to be rehabilitated. If you hurt, molest, or kill a child, then you need to die. You just need to lean in and take one for the team.

Slightly off topic for a second... even max security prisoners have a code. child molestors and rapists are not very well liked in prison. if he is the guy, and he does go to jail, he probably won't be alive for to long. unless he gets the death penalty, then he'll be there for 15 more years... but that's a discussion for another board.

-back on topic-

This guy seems to me like he's full of shit. I guess the DNA test will be conclusive, but if that doesn't match, I will continue to think her crazy perv of a dad "accidentally" killed her in the midst of some filthy incestuous activity. That family has reeked since the news went public and they did little, if anything, to encourage otherwise.

I think it's sick that the public convicted the parents without having them ever spend a day in court. We have courts for a reason. Hopefully, this guy did it and will be convicted. If so, the world owes the family a huge apology.

With all the stuff Matt Drudge has been posting today on his site about what's now coming out about this guy, I'm having a hard time believing that he did it. The ex-wife has already alibied him, and he's not even back in the country yet. Then there's the fact that this professor that apparently tipped off the police about the guy has fallen off the face of the planet. And that the guy apparently has an obsession with little girls being killed (Polly Klass, which he absolutely had nothing to with) and may or may not be writing a book on the subject.

He's a weird looking dude, but it's way to early to throw the book at him.

I don't know...I hope this is the right guy but there are an awful lot of unexplained details.

-The suspect said he picked her up at school? But they were home that night since it was Christmas. How did he have a relationship with a 6 year old? My nephew is 6 and there isn't a time in the day where my sister or another adult is with him.

-There weren't any footprints in the snow by the basement window, so how did he get in the front door? (I read the Ramseys gave out over a dozen keys to the house!)

-The suspect's ex-wife says he was with her in California that night.

-Why did he ask for $118,000 in ransom since that was the amount of John Ramsey's bonus?

-The Ramseys moved from GA to CO when JonBenet was a baby, so why is that considered a connection to the family?

-The suspect was obsessed with the case. Isn't it possible that he learned some of the details not made public through his research?

If this guy did it, I'm thinking he had some connection to the family through some friend or relative of theirs. Otherwise I just don't see how he would have known anything about JonBenet and gained access to the house.

This case just gets stranger and stranger. Like others have pointed out his ex-wife said he was with her in Alabama (I think) over the Christmas when it happened, he said he drugged her but none showed up on her blood screens and he said he had sex with her which also did also doesn't jive with the findings. He said her death was an accident but she was banged on the head and strangled.

I would like to give the prosecutor the benefit of the doubt assuming that she has compelling evidence. I guess a confession is hard to ignore. With what is going on in the Duke case I think we should take what prosecutors say with a grain of salt.

Sheesh, there's an awful lot of conspiracy freaks out there.

Some of you really want to believe he's not involved? Well, time will tell.

It's not as if the guy just blurted out a confession to avoid time in a Bangkok jail. He was being trailed for months. The FBI were liaising with Thai authorities on him for months. He was "tipped" as a suspect by a journalism professor, after writing to him about the case, for months. And he seems to know things about the case that a normal, regular "I don't want to go to jail" kind of guy would not know. Oh, and he's already a convicted child-sex offender.

Time will tell.

He is being extradicted and will face trial. And there's always that pesky DNA evidence...

But don't let that stop you guys from your conspiracy theories. Maybe he, Bush and Bin Laden cooked up this event after sharing a cup of coffee at the secret under-ground bunker, whilst discussing the missile they dropped on the Pentagon and laughing over the lost NASA tapes of the faked moon landing...

:-)

Mr Mephisto

PS - BTW, of course he's innocent until proved guilty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

He is being extradicted and will face trial. And there's always that pesky DNA evidence...

But don't let that stop you guys from your conspiracy theories. Maybe he, Bush and Bin Laden cooked up this event after sharing a cup of coffee at the secret under-ground bunker, whilst discussing the missile they dropped on the Pentagon and laughing over the lost NASA tapes of the faked moon landing...

:-)

Mr Mephisto

PS - BTW, of course he's innocent until proved guilty.

They haven't charged him with anything yet. He also apparently said he drove JonBenet home from school the day she was murdered. I think most schools are closed on Christmas. I don't have a conspiracy theory just questioning what I read and see on the news. This case has been very strange from the beginning.

Child Pornography & Murder? Ramsey Case

Article From:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/17/ra....ap/index.html

Quote:

AP) -- As investigators puzzle the life and mind of John Mark Karr, confessor to the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, they must unravel an elaborate and hazy narrative woven in part by Karr himself, much of it constructed around a clear and chilling theme -- a yearning to be close to children.

That desire, in retrospect, appears as heartfelt as it does disturbing.

Karr is a man who, while wanted as a fugitive on child pornography charges, sought to impress prospective employers with a long record of accomplishment preparing young lives "for a successful future."

He is a man who twice married teenagers -- one just 13 at the time. Both would later claim they had been coerced.

And he is the man who years ago confided to family members that he was deeply troubled by the murder of the Colorado 6-year-old, who he now claims to have loved and sexually assaulted.

It's difficult to know how much to believe of the life Karr, who is 41, says he has led since JonBenet was found strangled and beaten a decade ago in the basement of her family's home.

But in his own words, it all seems quite real.

"I awoke the children in the morning and gave them breakfast," Karr wrote in one online resume, recounting life as a private teacher and caregiver of three girls in Germany, aged 7, 11 and 12. "At day's end, I made sure the children had their evening bath, then put them to bed and read to them before they went to sleep."

Karr, who arrived in Thailand earlier this year looking for work as a teacher, claims to have spent years skipping from job to job, country to country, nearly all the time working with children. Details proved difficult to pin down Thursday.

School officials in Alabama and California confirmed that he worked in both states as a substitute teacher in the latter half of the 1990s and in 2001.

"He just seemed like somebody who thought he wanted to be a teacher," said Bob Raines, superintendent and principal at Wilson Elementary School, in one of the four districts near Petaluma, California where Karr worked. "After a few days, I could tell it just wasn't for him."

One of Karr's former wives, Lara Karr, told KGO-TV in California that her ex-husband spent a lot of time studying the cases of Ramsey and Polly Klaas, who was abducted from her Petaluma, California, home and slain in 1993.

Lara Karr said she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of JonBenet's killing and she does not believe he was involved in the homicide.

Some experts raised questions Thursday about Karr's arrest, noting that some details of his alleged confession seem out of line with circumstances of the case, and pointing to the need to establish evidence putting him at the scene.

But it is not easy to establish his whereabouts at any point in recent years.

Karr is remembered in his hometown of Hamilton, Alabama, as a smart kid, one who played in the high school band and matured into something of a local curiosity.

"You couldn't help but like John. He always had something going on," said Marion County School Superintendent Bravell Jackson, who recalls teaching Karr in elementary school and driving the school bus Karr rode.

As an adult, Karr wrote in one online resume that he worked for years in real estate and restored old homes. His work in schools appears to have begun in 1996 -- the year of the Ramsey murder. According to the resume, that was the start of a five-year stint teaching in "some of the most prestigious schools in the United States, working with children from high profile families."

But that is not the way people and court paperwork in Marion County recall it.

In 1984, when Karr was 19, he married a local girl, Quientana Shotts, who was 13 at the time, county court records show. Shotts filed for an annulment the following year, complaining that she was "fearful for her life and safety." In a response filed with the court, Karr contested Shotts' age, saying she was in fact 14.

In 1989, Karr remarried, this time to Lara Knutson. She was 16 at the time. Their twin daughters died the day they were born on September 1, 1989. The girls, Angel and Innocence Karr, are buried in the cemetery of a rural church in a family plot.

Contrary to his resume's description of a life in the classroom, Karr's sole Alabama experience was being hired as a substitute teacher in 1996. But his time there ended after school officials received complaints about Karr saying things "that didn't need to be said in an elementary class," Jackson said. Karr was "bragging on the students, their dress," said Jackson, declining to elaborate further.

After his brief work in the classroom, Karr sold used cars and was known in the Alabama town for his own flashy car -- a red DeLorean with gull-wing doors.

Marion County Probate Judge Annette Bozeman said Karr was in her office frequently, working on car titles, sometimes accompanied by Lara. "He was a very polite fellow, but he was a little unusual," she said.

Bozeman recalls a young man with hair down to his shoulders who told her Lara had not gone to the hospital to deliver their three children. "It seems he delivered his children at home," she said.

In 2000, Karr, who had taken classes at a college in Alabama, received a bachelor of science degree in liberal arts from Regents College, now Excelsior College, a distance-learning school based in Albany, New York.

He moved his family to California about the same time and in 2001, Karr found work as substitute teacher. But that came to an abrupt end when Karr, then 36, was arrested on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography, according to the Sonoma County sheriff's office.

That is not the story Karr's father, Wexford Karr, says he was told at the time.

In an interview Wednesday with The Denver Post from his home in Atlanta, he said his son, told him he was being held in California as part of the investigation of the Ramsey case.

Wexford Karr said his son's intrigue with the Ramsey murder was the start of his troubles. That fascination began with voracious research for a college paper that so impressed a professor that the man suggested he write a book, Wexford Karr said.

Two days after Karr was arrested on the pornography charges, his wife filed for divorce.

In the affidavit filed with her divorce petition, Lara Karr said her husband "was told by one school in or about '97 or '98 that he would not be asked to continue to serve as a substitute teacher because he had a tendency to be too affectionate with children."

Karr pleaded not guilty to the California charges and after a series of court hearings, he was released from jail that October, ordered to report to a probation officer and avoid child pornography, children and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks.

In November of that year, a judge issued a restraining order for Karr to stay at least 100 yards away from his ex-wife and children -- ages 8, 9 and 10 at the time -- for three years.

In December 2001, a warrant was issued for his arrest after he violated the terms of his supervised release.

By that time, however, according to Karr's online resumes, he was again working with children, this time overseas.

He told prospective employers that, from 2001 to 2002, he taught English to grade-school children in Seoul, South Korea, and then in Heemstede, the Netherlands. From 2002 to 2003, Karr wrote, he worked as a private teacher and caregiver in Germany and the Netherlands.

Executives at the language schools on whose Web sites Karr posted his resume said Thursday said they did not recall him.

After leaving Europe, Karr told employers, he had made his way first to Costa Rica, teaching English to business people. But Mark Henker, the owner of the school where Karr says he worked, said Thursday the only John he's had working with him over the last few years went by a different name. Costa Rica immigration officials say a John Karr left Costa Rica on August 3, 2004, crossing the border into Nicaragua by land.

Karr's resume, though, said his next stop was Honduras, where he claims to have returned to teaching students at an English school until 2005.

Then Karr arrived in Bangkok earlier this year and found work teaching second grade, a job he started just Tuesday.

But coincident with Karr's self-described hopscotch between jobs and countries, he also apparently began lengthy e-mail contact with a professor at the University of Colorado, Michael Tracey, who had investigated the Ramsey case, and with JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey.

Tracey told the AP that the correspondence began when Karr contacted him about his documentary on the case and stretched over four years. Karr never revealed his name. In May, Tracey said, he alerted the district attorney's office about the e-mail. He declined to provide a more thorough explanation.

Now investigators will rely on the e-mail, DNA gathered at the scene of the murder, and Karr's own statements to determine the truth.

This arrest is all over the news out here in the San Francisco area. Is it getting as much media attention elsewhere?

Do you think he did it?

Has anyone found some decent news articles that describe the incident he has been accused of in better detail?

I don't see how he could have been a part of this, honestly... I look at this article and I think that this child's parents must be seeking some sort of closure after all of these years, and they're blaming it on some guy with a shady past who has a history of getting too close to children. But... the article says that this man claims he did do it. Was he somehow coerced into speaking up? I don't get it. Yes, child porn is horrible. Yes, it's pretty nasty that this fella has been working closely with children all of these years and hasn't gotten some sort of help. I think it's horrible that his wife didn't realize until their kids were about the age where his influence could be harmful to their development.

It's a disturbing article, mainly because sounds like this guy is boarderline insane - not guilty. I'd be interested in hearing some differing perspectives on this one.

hmm. i'll wait and see if he's full of shit or if the DNA matches up.

How did I miss this? Thanks!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

OK, now it's not just random conspiracy theorists:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14399340/

It sounds like he was obsessed with the case, and perhaps is just disturbed enough to confess, or even to believe he really did it.

We'll see when the DNA comes back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

And there's always that pesky DNA evidence...

Umm, what DNA evidence? No one's announced anything of the sort that I've seen.

I don't think that there's a conspiracy here, just potentially a false confession by someone looking for attention. He may have done it, along with the murder in Alabama that's now being discussed, but he may not have. There's nothing in his criminal record to indicate a violent history, and he even seems to have gone so far as to marry some of his victims.

Ugh, what a mess. I was hoping this arrest would help simplify things and clear away the murky doubts and suspicions in the case. No death deserves such a circus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Umm, what DNA evidence? No one's announced anything of the sort that I've seen.

They recovered male DNA from the kid's underwear a couple of years ago - they compared the DNA to a national registry of sex offenders from whom DNA had been obtained previously and apparently there was no match.

Based on what I've read I think it's a little suspicious. I'm not usually one for conspiracies, and in this case I don't particularly believe this guy had anything to do with the murder. Wasn't there, says he drugged her when she wasn't drugged... It doesn't seem to add up to me. I guess there could be more to the crime then we know, though.

you know... i'm beginning to think the same thing.

the biggest thing to me is why on earth would his exwife give him an alibi? that just makes no sense at all. it seems that they divorced after his child porn convition in california, so why come to his defense now? the whole thing is just a bit fishy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

If this is true....then I apologize for 10 years of bad mouthing that poor woman

Well..it seems that the "If this is true" part of that statement, and those made by several others, is key.

So...let's just speculate for a moment.
Let's say, for the sake of argument (and my amusement), that the DNA doesn't match...what then? Does this cast an even larger, and darker, cloud of suspicion over the Ramsey's? Human nature tells me that it does.

What a clown show. :rolleyes:

this is the beginning of the current writing on cnn about this

Quote:

BOULDER, Colorado (CNN) -- John Mark Karr gave authorities graphic details about the condition of JonBenet Ramsey's body that have been kept secret for nearly a decade, a U.S. law enforcement source told CNN on Friday.

Those details were known only to the medical examiner and the investigators probing the December 26, 1996 murder of the six-year-old beauty queen, the law enforcement official said.

now can someone please help me out here

I've read the autopsy report that was made public in 1997. (found here if you're interested in reading it http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet1.html )

I read every word of that report...arent those supposed to be official reports? Can they leave something out? I mean this thing is detailed from what was on her underwear to where her hyman was located.... and anyone could have read it in the last 9 years.... and known details....could there really be things left out of it and it be an official report?