KirStang

I'm building a precision shooting rig...

I sold my Remington 700 VTR 22" .308 not long ago, and I regret that now (wanted to sell it and buy another gun more suited to my desires). There's a million choices on precision rifles--I had my eye on a 24" Remington 700 SPS 24" in .308 for $450, but that deal is no longer listed on buds.

The sniper central review lists the Remington 700SPS Tactical 20" at .5 MOA, and I thought about going that route--but for $600, I might as well spring up for the 700P LTR, which has a fluted barrel and aluminum bedded stock.

On the other hand, I could sell a safe queen and go for a semi-auto rig. RRAs have been good to me, and I love their 2 stage triggers (RRA LAR-8). Accuracy is guaranteed at 1 MOA, and most have been reported to be less than 1 MOA, although not crazy tight shooters like a Remington (which is 0.3 MOA capable out of the box). I'm thinking a the RRA LAR-8 Standard 20" with a free floated quadrail ($1,250, not a bull barrel, but about 3lbs lighter than a 26" Bull barrel varmint--but also potentially less accurate).

I already have decent glass (Millet TRS-1--not a NightForce but sufficient).

What would you choose for a precision rig? Would you want a Bolt with Detachable Box Mag ("DBM")? Are DBMs desirable? Or an AR10? Or some other semi-auto platform?

I'd like to keep costs down--either $1,350 for a semi or $650 for a bolt...or $950 for a FNH TSR .308 with DBM...


Thanks for the input.

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telekinetic

Well, what are you going to do with it? For long distance hole punching in paper, it doesn't get much better than bolt action, in my opinion. If you are going to be tagging coyotes at 800 yards, the ability to deliver swift followup shots may sway the balance towards the RRA setup.

I've been nursing an itch to make some long range target shooting, and for me, it's going to be a Remington 700 in .308. DBM doesn't interest me, as it doesn't save me any real time--still have to load a magazine between shooting, whether it be in the gun or off it. Even if you bring five mags, unless five is all you're going to shoot, you are eventually going to have to load. Semi-auto is more of the same arguement--long distance precision is a slow-fire game, trading accuracy for cycle time is going the wrong direction. Also, all of the AR platform .308's lock you in to a single manufacturer, as there isn't a single standard like the .223.

Final opinion: If you're going to be spending $1350 already, toss in another $150 and take a hard look at Remington 700's in .338 Lapua Magnum--assuming you can make your peace with owning a rifle chambered in five dollar bills.

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twisted no more

Plan9

Enough of the gear-queeritry about hot rod sniper rounds. The dude needs to learn how to shoot at 600 yards with a .308

Buying .338 before learning how to shoot a .308 well is like buying a Porsche before figuring out a manual transmission car.

There isn't anything realistic that he needs a .338 for that a .308 cannot do for him for much cheaper while teaching fundamentals.

You only get good at the gun you actually shoot. The .338 is the wrong answer in that equation. It's perfect everywhere else.

And for those of us on a budget, .300 Win Mag makes a helluva lot more sense than saving for a box of law-poo-uh all year.

/hasn't shot anything other than 5.56 / 7.62 intermediate cartridges in a million years

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

telekinetic

What, you don't think he learned to shoot the .308 he already had? I figure if he already owned and liked a .308, and has optics, maybe stepping up is something to consider? :-p

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twisted no more

Walt

1)What is the intended use of the rifle?
2) Realistically, what is the longest range that you will be shooting at?

I think that detachable mags on bolt guns are a cool-looking waste of money.

VERY few people have the skill and the range facilities to make proper use of a 300 Win Mag/338 Lapua. A 308 is easily capable of reaching out to 1000 yards and beyond if the shooter is up to it. The magnums will get you a bit farther but will also burn out barrels much faster and cost quite a bit more for ammunition/reloading components.

EDIT

Something to consider: You already own a couple of AR's. A precision AR would allow you to use the magazines and ammunition interchangeably in a pinch.

Also, since you already own a couple of AR's, you could just build a match upper that you can swap out. By investing in only an upper receiver, you could get great quality components, with a little left over to allow you to throw a Giselle two-stage trigger in your lower.

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Calmer than you are...

KirStang

Realistically, the longest would be 200 yards. I really plan on using the rifle to learn the basics of precision shooting (drop, wind, all the other skills required to utilize a precision rifle).

I was thinking of the Remy 700 to have a platform that can grow with me as my skills increase, but honestly all I'll be doing with this thing is paper punching. Unless 2012 happens. Then I'll be fighting throngs of bears.

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telekinetic

200 yards? Wanna buy my Marlin 60?

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twisted no more

KirStang

The idea is to punch tight little holes at 200 yards so one day I can punch decent sized holes at 600 yards...

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Walt

I'm going to suggest an AR platform in 223/556. A decent handguard, barrel and trigger will be more than capable of achieving 1/4 MOA out to 600 yards and beyond. It's cheaper than a 308 to shoot so you can shoot more.

If you go the bolt gun route, do it right and go custom.

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Calmer than you are...

KirStang

Why go custom Bolt? I'm pretty clueless when it comes to bolt guns. If a out of the box bolt is capable of 1/2-3/4 MOA out of the box (some may reach 1/3 MOA), whats the value added for a custom Bolt?

From what I gather, aftermarket stocks are stiffer for more repeatability...But other than that I really don't know much.

*ETA*:

Also hoping on taking a precision rifle class....hence the need for a precision rifle.

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Plan9

I’ve heard tale that OSV-96 is an ideally balanced piece for precision work at any range. Elite forces guys around the world use it to take down baddies on a regular basis. The .416 Rigby would be my second choice for a precision round if you need something with relatively low power but excellent range.

Anyway... if I learned anything from Under Siege 2: Dark Territory, it's that "assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups." And to always find the body.

So, turns out Kirstang used to have .308 bolt gun set up for precision work, but he sold it after less rounds down range than hours that Britney Spears’ recent marriage lasted. I figure he’s looking to pick up where he left off and I can’t suggest a 5.56mm for what will eventually turn into .308 work. It’s like buying a 500cc cruiser instead of an 1100cc as a starter bike: you’re going to outgrow it pretty quick if you have any aptitude. That and there has to be some reason like 99% of the world’s marksmen use 7.62mm (every police rifle made since like 1960, military guns like the M24, M40A1, M21, SR25, PH M82, various Arctic Warfare rifles, H&K PSG1/MSG90A1, Sako TRG 22, Steyr SSG-P1, CZ 700, I’m running outta random guns off the top of my head, etc.). 7.62mm is the round of choice, it seems. It's cheap enough to shoot often and is quite literally the de facto "sniper rifle." He'll never outgrow it.

Hmmm, so there are two debates here and they're kinda intermingled: which cartridge (5.56mm or 7.62mm) and which platform (bolt or semi). Money doesn't actually seem to be an issue with Kirstang (he owns LWRC / MSAR / plasma rifles), so it comes down to what tool will best suit his desired training outcome. The AR upper would be fine except it doesn't fulfill the .308 role. IMRO, it's cheaper to fill the role now with a purpose-built gun.

As our spear-equipped Lord and Savior Walt stated above, .300 WM and .338 Lapua are exotic race car rounds (high performance means super expensive and a lot less miles on the barrel) in the precision rifle game and shouldn’t even be on the table when talking about a greenhorn’s first long range rifle. Guess my sarcasm was lost on the crowd (as per usual) when I suggested .300 WM. It’s kinda like when someone bitches about the Glock 30/36 (or subcompact .45s in general) not having enough balls and I smartassedly recommend they go with the Glock 29 or that they stop pussyfooting around, get a Wildey already. It’s not that Walt doesn’t have a boner for the Erma SR-100, it’s just that he can’t recommend it to us pogues.

...

I’m in the same boat, really. I’ve only dabbled in anything outside of carbines and pistols and I’m eager to start poking holes at 600+ meter ranges. I’m probably going to start with a Savage bolt gun even though my first instinct is to go for an AR-10 variant because I like the manual of arms and speed.

...

Those that actually know what they're talking about, please feel free to correct me. I am a meat popsicle, the total opposite of knowledgeable.

/don't know dick

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

KirStang

What do you guys think?

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Walt

No. Scope doesn't have target knobs. You don't need a 20 MOA base. You don't need the Badger 50 cal rings. The bipod looks like Steyr knock-off crap. The "extended polymer floorplate" will break. Whoever built this rifle is an asshole, probably owns a Navy SEALS poster, and should be kicked in the dick. It's all tacticool crap.

And I will personally punch you in the face if you put that beanbag rear rest/cheek piece/ammo holder in case 7 rounds isnt enough/utility pouch nonsense on your rifle. Its gayer than 4 guys sucking 12 guys dicks.

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Calmer than you are...

Plan9

Ya know, based on his "Find All Posts By User" content... every time Walt doesn't like something, exponentially more gay men get together for oral sex.

It's like a perverted Dr. Seuss book. Perhaps One Homo, Two Homo, Red Homo, Blue Homo.

...

I'm really disappointed that nobody made any Steven Seagal jokes. C'mon, people... get with the program.

...

I've got nothing else to add except based on the prices I could find, the rifle and stock are worth $850+. The rest can be sold / tossed / given to gay men to fuel their orgies as necessary. I try to look beyond superficial crap like shitty paint jobs and superfluous accessories to figure out if the raw gun is worth the price after what I can recoup on selling the accessories. I don't know much about anything, but buying this rifle for $1000 and selling the extraneous crap might be a worthwhile venture. Or it might not. I didn't bother to look up the prices of the brand name goodies. I do know that you'd be hard up to sell the ridiculous Blackhawk! looking buttstock fannypack. You might just have to call that a loss. Tell the guy not to include it in the box.

The rifle was built by a tactifatty on That Certain Board. His avatar is a picture of a fat white guy in kit doing something dynamic with a rifle.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Walt

Dude. Don't blame me, blame the malthusian growth model of faggotry, where f(x)=gayness^x. And leave Mr. Geisel out of this. That man was a genius who ate unicorns for breakfast and shit out trisyllabic gold.

I don't want to come across as a rifle snob. Custom isn't absolutely necessary. There are plenty of guys out there who are goddamned surgeons with factory bolt guns (Slims used to have a 700 that could shoot all day like a damned porn star). That being said, being capable of shooting 3/4 MOA and being capable of consistently shooting 3/4 MOA are two different things. While majority of factory "varmint" 700's should be able to bang out sub-MOA groups all day long, quality control always suffers in mass production. You might get a lemon with a bad crown, poorly cut barrel, poorly fitted bolt, shitty bedding job and will have to spend a lot of time and money trying to find and fix the problem. I don't want to knock Remington. They always have turned out a fantastic product. But if you want to do serious precision stuff, you are going to need a rifle that will always be better than you are - when I blow a shot, I know that the fault is on me, rather than the rifle.

I went with a custom bolt gun for two reasons:
1) Because I liked the idea of having a rifle set up exactly the way I wanted it. The LOP was cut to fit me. The barrel was chambered specifically for the round that I would be firing, etc.
2) A custom gun provides a level of precision that you wont find from the factory. My barrel was hand selected. My bolt was cut to match the dimensions of my receiver. My LOP was set up just for me. Long story short, the custom gun takes a lot of variables out of the equation. If I blow a shot, I know its my fault.

-------

Having spent a bit of time thinking about it and getting my chakras aligned, I think that you would probably be well-served by starting with a factory heavy-barreled 700. They're relatively cheap, and will allow you to develop your skills while you burn out the factory barrel. By then, your skills will be solid enough to warrent upgrading barrels and getting the action trued.

Still, I would suggest getting your NIB rifle professionally bedded and getting a Jewell trigger installed. Sell your current scope and invest in quality glass. The general rule of thumb is that you should spend as much on your optics as you do on your rifle. Something like a Leupold Mk 4 3-10x40 or 50 with mil-dots would be ideal as it would allow you to learn ranging with mil dots, etc and won't need to be upgraded when you start customizing your rifle.

Stay away from used rifles for precision shooting. It's easy for the previous owner to damage them through neglect in ways that aren't immediately noticeable to the buyer.

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Calmer than you are...

Plan9

This is why you’ll never make assistant manager, Mr. Sobchak. Your EO complaints are stacked taller than Wilt Chamberlain.


...

Kinda related: Fuck Virginia Tech.

...

Dude, you're a rifle snob. The first step is admitting it. And it's okay with us. We like it. We want to learn. But pushing the idea of a custom turnbolt on a gentleman that hasn't shot anything at farther than like 300 meter (Ivans at that)? GTFO, Boscoe. There's a difference between starting with something too cheap to do you justice from a training standpoint and something that's way outta your ability to the point you don't even notice the difference.

I just don't think he's there yet. And I don't think he needs to invest in a piece that can do that yet either. Not if a factory gun has a good chance of doing it acceptably until he accumulates enough trigger time to say, "I need a better rifle." I mean, I'm sure as fuck not going to pay a Dwarven Harley rider (typical gunsmith) to build me a Carlos Hathcock special when it comes time for me to pony up the Benjies for a 600+ meter rifle. I’m looking at getting a factory police-guy-with-black-outfit Savage in .308 (until I read some article that says they're turn-to-dust-in-your-hands turds). Thoughts?

You've got the persuasive argument that only comes from experience, Walt. But where did you start from? That's where we're at here.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ilow

As far as I'm concerned this thread is winning like Charlie Sheen right now. Thanks for the amusement/info.
As far as actually contributing, from my limited use and from others experience, the Savage bolt guns seem to be pretty decent out of the box. Maybe that's like saying that HP makes pretty decent computers to a tech guy, but whatever, there seems to be some decent value there is all I'm saying. Carry on.

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"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

SSJTWIZTA

either that or he blows patton osawlt quotes out of proportion.

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First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

KirStang

God damn, that scope is like $1,400. I'll poke around and wait for the right Leupy Mk4 to show up. In the meantime, got any more scope suggestions? I don't mind investing in quality glass--just throw out a couple of models you consider worthy.

*ETA* The NF you're rocking on your custom Remy's a $1,600 scope. What made you choose NF over Leupy?

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The_Dunedan

I ran the same extended polymer mag on my 700 SPS Tactical before upgrading to the CDI Precision detachable-mag lower and 10rd AICS mags. I was pleased with it overall, but it would probably be inadequate for serious field/combat conditions. VERY happy with my current setup. I run a Konus 10x50 with Mil-Dots and LOVE IT. The fixed power keeps the scope simple and improves light transmission (2 lenses versus 9+), and the dots give me both rangefinding and built-in holdovers. That rig shoots sub-MOA all day long, far beyond my capabilities, and is very rugged. Plus, the AICS 10-rounders work great in my Romanian PSL mag/accy pouch.

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"I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world."

--Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

KirStang

Dunedan, you recommend fixed power over variable? Is 10X sufficient?

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The_Dunedan

10x should be plenty for anything inside 600-800 meters depending on the target. Variable scopes have more lenses, which equals degraded light transmission and makes shooting in low light much harder. I'm still hunting or shooting 30-60 minutes after customers and friends with variables have had to quit. Quality glass helps a lot too, but Konus uses Nikon glass so I'm set there too. Konus also use etched reticules in all of their centerfire scopes, which is a pricey/high end option on Leupold, Nikon, etc.

I am still working to even approach the capabilities of that rifle. .5MOA is the goal. I know the rifle can more than do it...jusy gotta embiggen my own chops.

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"I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world."

--Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

KirStang

God dammit, I know the Rem700 will be precision precision, but I keep looking back at this RRA 20" .308 with a FF quad rail and a 1 MOA guarantee.



It's no GAP10 or Les Baer, but it's 1 MOA--about what Larue's OBR guarantees.

I think I'm going to rock my lower end Millet TRS-1 for now until I know WTF I'm doing and WTF I want, before making the plunge to something kickass like a Leupy or Nightforce.

Do you all prefer milliradian adjustments (1 click = 1/10 mil) or MOA adjustments (1 click = 1/4th MOA)?

I find MOA easier for me to figure out in my head, whereas Mil adjustments match what you see in the reticle.

Any reticle preferences?

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P-Naughty

If you are wanting value and accuracy, look at the Savage line. They are great out of the box shooters, and you can spend more on the three things that mean more than all the other gun hype out there: rings, bases, and optics. Ammo is a key factor too (don't expect sub MOA accuracy using mil surp), but an optic and the foundation and attachment mechanism are going to be far more important.

The fact of the matter is that most of the bolt guns on the market today are capable of sub MOA accuracy out of the box. You might have to find the right ammo, mix your own load, or spend some time behind the trigger to get there, but they are capable of it.

I own a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. It's a great out of the box shooter, and plenty accurate for what you would be doing. My only complaint is the twist rate is slower than I would like. It will stabilize 165gr. rounds fine, but anything above that tumbles past 100-150 yards. YMMV. One day I will probably re-barrel it to something more accurate. As it sits, it is fine for what I do: shooting to 350 yards and hunting whitetail/hogs.

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I will not walk so that a child may live!
- Master Shake

KirStang

Pnaughty, thanks for the tips.

The Rem SPS700 Tactical is 1/10 twist--is that still too slow for 175gr projos and up? I would have thought Rem compensated for the short barrel with a faster twist.

I'm avoiding guns that require handloading--I do not want to make the investment in to reloading equipment with the concomitant risk that I will blow up a gun. Due to that, I was leaning more towards the Remington--it seems to tolerate factory match loads more accurately than a comparable Savage.

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The_Dunedan

My SPS Tactical (and those belonging to Madre and Padre) both -love- the 175gr A-Max. Haven't tried any 168s in mine yet, but it'll hold 1moa or a little less with decent milsurp.

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"I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world."

--Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

KirStang

Is it worth it to try the 155gr Lapua Scenar loaded match bullets through the 20" Semi-Auto LAR-8?

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Walt

I really doubt it. That is an uber specialized bullet. I've heard of it being offered in loaded ammo, but only for Palma stuff. Still, if it comes in the standard config, it cant hurt to find out.

The 168 gr Gold Medal stuff is solid ammo. A friend and I both use it as something to establish a standard of accuracy out of a new rifle. I would highly recommend you look in to that.

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Calmer than you are...

KirStang

Yessir, I have 2 boxes of Black Hills 168gr Match (left over from shooting M1A NM), 1 box of FGMM 168gr and 1 box of 175gr FGMM, and some 147gr M80 type ball. Hoping to standardize with the 175gr as it seems like that's what most available, in terms of supply and data.

Range report in 2 weeks. That ought to be exciting.

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Walt

Good deal and congrats on the new rifle.

A suggestion: Pick up a couple of boxes of the cheap 155 gr Winchester stuff at WalMart. Once you've adjusted your scope so that you're on paper, thoroughly clean your rifle. Run 10-20 rounds of the cheap through your rifle to build up a baseline of fouling. Shoot your 5 round groups with the expensive stuff.

Once you've finished up with the first make/mod of ammo, clean and run another 10 rounds of cheap stuff. Move on to the next load.

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Calmer than you are...

The_Dunedan

And whatever you do, BREAK THE BARREL IN PROPERLY!!! Full 100rd process. Trust me, it pays. I know it's a pain in the ass, but it's -so- worth it.

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"I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world."

--Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

Walt

So whats the story? Did you get it?

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Calmer than you are...

KirStang

Sorry, the gun's not complete yet, still waiting for my Magpul PRS to arrive. Haven't gotten to shoot it yet though.

I used a level to mount the scope, although I don't have a ring lapper.



Couple of first impressions:

1.) Controls are ambidextrous, with the exception of the selector lever. That's a nice touch.
2.) Gas Block's clamped on. I knew that already, so we'll see how that holds up. RRA also had a sling mount on the gas block--pretty stupid for a precision rifle. I punched that out.
3.) Don't like the half quad rail. Would have preferred a full quad. However, the barrel is free floated.
4.) Really like the RRA 2 stage match trigger.
5.) Definitely need a cheek piece/PRS--the scope sits a little high for a good cheekweld still.

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

Also forewent Back up Iron Sights in lieu of an Aimpoint R1 (had one sitting around after the $300 Midway sale). The BUIS's would require me to remove the scope (with tools I may not have in the field), and I the R1 allows me to use the gun up close up by just changing my head position. My primary use M4 has an TA01/Jpoint set up, so I'm used to such a set up.

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

Cleaned the gun last night too. RRA definitely test-fired it at the factory. There were brass marks on the bolt-face.

---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

Had a different setup last night:

Had ARMS #22M rings on Burris 1/2" risers (in order to clear the rail), with the R1 on a 45degree mount. Also had a VFG on there--but without a full bottom rail, the VFG did not make it any easier to carry the gun. So that came off.

The 45 degree R-1 also worked poorly--I the 50mm Objective blocked the sight, as did the windage target knob.

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Walt

Looks good, though I can't say that I'm a fan of the Aimpoint.

Easy way to check if your cross hairs are level:

Hang a plumb bob with a brightly-colored line @ 50 yards or so. Sand bag your rifle so that it's on target and use a level to make sure that its flat. Probably doesn't need to be said, but put your bubble level on the flat top of the receiver, not the scope.

If your vertical cross hairs line up perfectly with the plumb bob line, you're good to go.

Looking forward to your first range report.

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Calmer than you are...

KirStang

Finally got my RRA LAR-8 out to the range.



Couple of notes on the RRA LAR-8.

1.) It is the least expensive AR-10 in its class--a similarly equipped DPMS SASS will cost about $1,800. Mine cost approximately $1,400.

2.) Parts compatibility. One of the more frustrating things about the LAR-8 is the lack of parts compatibility. Installing the Magpul PRS required a stock extension as the charging handle doesn't clear the PRS cheekpiece. In addition, the LAR-8 won't accept BCM .308 charging handles or Magpul LR20 pmags. Due to this, I had to (a) place the scope further back for proper eye relief and LOP and (b) add a PRI big latch (just the latch, not the overpriced complete charging handle).

3.) Magazines. Uses FAL magazines, both metric and inch pattern. Although my FN Fal mags run fine in my LAR8, my LAR8 mags cause double feeds in my FAL. Guess LAR mags aren't backwards compatible.

4.) Gun isn't too heavy. It's about 9lbs. But once the scope and bipod are on, the gun gets substantially heavier.

On to the range report.
========================

I started with a 25-50-100 zero. Nothing really significant except that at 100 yards, I was chasing zero for a while due to the M80 ball I was shooting. Once I switched to Black Hills 168gr Match my groups tightened up significantly.

I used to think that video games about peoples' vision going bad when holding their breath was crap, but today, at 100 yards, when I held my breath for too long, my vision definitely became blurry. In addition, I was a little sore from exercising yesterday so it was hard to center the crosshairs at 100 yards. If there's any inaccuracy in this gun, it is definitely the shooter.

Anyway, here's a 5 shot group from 100 yards:



Here's a 3 shot using Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr:



A lot of stringing came from the shooter. Once I sand-bagged the stock, my groups started sliding horizontally:



Center group was with 175gr FGMM. Top left BH 168 Match, bottom left 168gr FGMM, bottom right the same, and top right 175gr FGMM.

The gun mostly stayed around 1 MOA, but I managed to wrangle out some ~.6 MOA groups center to center. I definitely have a lot to learn when it comes to precision shooting. Hoping to return with some clover-leafed shot patterns the next time around. Gonna have to buy more precision ammo ($75 shipped for 3 boxes [60rds] of M118LR--yikes!).

So what do you guys think, is this a 800M/1000M capable rifle?

=========================

Re: Glass. Are M1 target knobs necessary? Do Leupold PR/covered knobs suffice?

Is there anyway to reduce parallax? I feel like a lot of shot variance comes from my face moving around.

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EventHorizon

i only have experience with 5.56 rounds and i'm itching to start practicing my hand at precision stuff but i have no clue where to start. i'm looking at this:

Remington 770 SPT BOLT 270 W/SCOPE $300.00 SHIPS FREE

to pop my precision cherry. i was told by a former Air Force Security Forces counter-sniper that a good pre-.308 rifle to learn how to shoot would have a .270 setup. is he right? i've never really thought about precision shooting until my roommate on the rifle team suggested it. what should i start with?

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Plan9

Start with what you're going to use. You'll never outgrow .308.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

EventHorizon

ok well then i guess i'll start with this
Savage AXIS XP 308 W/SCP $307.00 SHIPS FREE
but it doesn't say much about the scope though. also, would i have trouble customizing this once i find what i like/dont like?

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

KirStang

You should be able to swap a scope in, if the tube diameter of the included scope is the same as the new scope you want to drop in (industry standard is 30mm, but there are other scopes in 34mm, 35mm, 1" etc...Bigger tube means more elevation/windage adjustment and is supposedly more robust).

I did some quick digging, looks like you can swap in the mount base and rings too (Savage 110 mount base? May have to search to confirm).

Here's a review of the Axis in .243....

New Savage Axis 243 Winchester Bolt-Action Rifle

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Walt pointed me to an article that suggested an accurized .22LR for shooting fundamentals at 50Y. But, that's more money and accessories.

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EventHorizon

any idea what kind of MOA i would be looking at?

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

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Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.