Fallon

Sorry if this has been beaten and re-beaten into the ground, but I had a couple questions for those that are more knowledgeable than I. Due to an incident at home, we're considering the purchase of a firearm as well as the training on how to properly use and maintain said firearm. Now from a totally novice's standpoint, legally what would I need to do? Let's say I have my perfect firearm selected, what should I expect to be doing at the store and in the town I live in. I intend this to stay locked in a safe with a safety lock on it, so would this change any of the 'permitting' or anything?
Also, in a month we're moving from New Hampshire to Rhode Island. What kind of problems could this raise?
Sorry for the broad and newbish questions, but I've been reading for the past two hours about permitting for CCW, which is not what I want to do and I'm now at a loss. Thanks in advance.

Slims

Ok, I don't live in either of those states, but since nobody else has given any advice yet I will try to point you in the right direction.

Check out www.packing.org

They are more or less the comprehensive concealed carry database with lethal force laws and permitting, and purchase requirements for all fifty states. It's a really good resource. Even though it's primary focus is on CCW, it has a lot of information you will probably find usefull.

Also www.thehighroad.org is a good website for firearms enthusiasts and they are happy to help new shooters.

I don't know the particular laws for each state, and you will have to check them yourself.

But generally speaking, you shouldn't have problems purchasing a firearm for home defense if you are not a felon, insane, too young, or in the united states illegally.

I think you will find purchasing a firearm surprisingly easy. Typically all you need is two forms of ID and payment and a background check will be conducted on the spot. In NC if you want to purchase a handgun, you have to stop by the sherif's office first and pay five dollars in lieu of a background check, but it's really quite easy. It is my understanding that NH is fairly reasonable with their firearms laws, though I have no idea about RI.

I am not going to preach about which caliber or how exactly you should store your weapons because a lot of that boils down to comfort and your unique circumstances. But I will suggest that you also consider purchasing a fast-access handgun safe (if you end up buying a handgun) because you can get to it fast enough for it to be useful. Be vary wary of trigger locks. I learned how to bypass mine when I was a very young teenager, and they can be a pain to remove, slowing you down when you need your firearm.

Also, make sure both you and your wife are comfortable actually handling and shooting whatever you settle on. Something that may feel fine to you may be too severe for her to shoot. Many establishments will allow you to rent and try out several different weapons.

Good luck

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Plan9

Ask yourself if you really need a handgun. If CCW proves to be a PITA (pain in the ass) or if you really decide you just want something around the house, go for a 12 gauge with 00 buck. You can get those in just about any state and they're legal just about everywhere. Helluva lot easier to master.

"New England" is generally a cock-blocker as far as concealed weapons (NY, Mass, Conn, etc). Minus Vermont, which has no state gun laws (love me some VT), most of these states make getting permit a dog and pony show.

Or they used to... they may have changed the laws favorably in the last 7 years.

Good luck.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Fallon

I do not intend to carry these. I just want them at our home as I said for home protection. And thanks Greg for the pointers.

longbough

If you are legally allowed to own a firearm you don't need a CCW to protect yourself in your own home.

That being said, the best training you can get is from a proper firearms school like Thunder Ranch, LFI etc. They're usually 3-4 days for an introductory course but it's more than worth it. Still, it's beyond most people to afford in terms of time and money - but it's the prime option for someone who is serious about mastery of the firearm for personal defense.

It sounds like you need a lot of very basic instruction, too - like how to clean the firearm. The best way is to go to your local friendly range/gunsmith/gunshop and simply ask them how to strip and clean the weapon. Don't be embarrassed to ask because gun-folk are actually very nice and helpful people.

The selection of the "perfect" firearm is a complicated issue. Don't let your biases get in the way of what's practical. Be realistic.

If you don't intend to practice on a regular basis (be honest with yourself) then you should stay away from autoloaders. A revolver is very useful because it's easy to operate under stress when you need it most. An autoloader requires you understand when you're chambered, that you're aware of the safeties and their conditions and that you know how to clear malfunctions quickly. Unless you intend to train - stick to a revolver.

Another option mentioned was the shotgun - it's biggest advantage is that it's one of the most intimidating weapons for a bad-guy and is very effective at stopping said crook. The only problem is in knowing its operation and its limitations as a long arm in close quarters. Having a shotgun does not displace the utility of a good handgun.


Not really.
At the time of purchase you just have to agree to keep it locked up at the home. This is only a formality as a term of purchase.

However, there are many experienced people who believe that, when you're home you should have the gun ready to use, not locked up, - even if its hidden away.

Think of it this way - the time you need it is not when you hear a crash in the living room in the middle of the night but when the bedroom door flies open and a stranger comes in just as you're waking up. Do you have time to mess with safety locks?


A CCW is if you want to walk around wearing said firearm on your person.

It seems like you just want advice for protecting the home which doesn't require that permit.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

Plan9

Home protection, huh?

Like I said:

12 gauge shotgun. Pick a name: Remington, Mossberg, Winchester.

A full size, two-handed, shoulder-stock model. 18"-20" barrel. 5+ shots.

The sound of that <i>CHHK-CHHK!</i> slide action operating in the dark is more than enough to get most would-be burglars out the door.

00 Buck would do the job on those who didn't hear the warning.

Anybody can get a shotgun. Its the de facto American weapon.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

jorgelito

Do you need a lot of training for a shotgun?

Fallon

Thank ya all for the clarification and helping out.

ziadel

one word man: Mossberg

http://www.militaryfactory.com/small...mallarms_id=71


I'm sure longbough will pipe up

__________________
Ron Paul '08
Vote for Freedom
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longbough

what I'd really want is a Serbu Super Shorty - too bad I can't have one:


... or a Remington 870 MCS

... or this handsome item from Scattergun Technologies



IN case you're wondering - you can't buy these.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

Slims

Shotguns are great, but you really need to shoot one (and have your wife do the same) before you buy. Even though my wife has shot shotguns in the past (with light skeet loads too) she is intimidated by them and simply does not feel comfortable handling my little mossberg. When I go away to military schools, she has me lock up everything except for one pistol which she is comfortable with.

It is also a lot easier to throw your pistol into a briefcase and go to your local shooting range than it is to lug a shotgun around, so you may find yourself practicing more with a handgun (I do).

That being said, a decent shotgun is relatively inexpensive, simple, and makes a formiddable home defense weapon.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Fire

also on a pump shotgun, the height of the user and therefore their arm reach is a factor- my wife, who is short, has a problem cycling a pump 12- also, while it is a de-facto american weapon, firing a 12 gauge inside a small room, like the ones found in most american dwellings these days, is a painfull experience- ruptured eardrums anyone? it can seriously impair your ability to make a followup shot should you miss- and that is a real possibility with a shotgun, despite the false perception that you do not need to aim.... within those limitations, though, a shotgun has unparalelled stopping power, and is not a bad choice- If you go with a handgun, then you may look into a revolver, reliable, and easy for a new user to learn on.......I would avoid those with integral trigger locks, as supposablly they have not worked all the bugs out yet and there have been cases of the weapon self locking while in use....

as to a safe, lock up the guns when you are not home, but leave it where you can get to it when you are home- a gun locked up can not hurt anyone except you when you cannot get to it.... and finally whatever you get, put a lot of practice rounds through it before you depend on it.......

__________________
Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

Fallon

Initially we figured on getting a handgun, but thanks to everyones advice, I think I convinced her to look at shotguns as well. Shortly we'll be heading to a local gun shop with a range and rent a couple different firearms and fire off quite a few rounds. Again, thanks everyone for the advice.

longbough

as effective as a shotgun is ... it doesn't replace the need for a revolver which is quicker to deploy and use. A long arm of any kind (shotgun included) can be at a disadvantage when you're indoors.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

ziadel

Firing anything indoors without hearing protection is a painful experience. I've done it, have you? I think its wise that everyone do that once just so you know what to expect.

If your worried about the shotgun being too cumbersome for indoor use, you could always go for a folding stock.

But personally, I would not. I think they're uncomfy.

__________________
Ron Paul '08
Vote for Freedom
Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

Fallon

Ideally, I think we'd get both. Financially though I don't know what she's planning on. I think she probably wants a handgun, ideally a Glock I believe. I do prefer the looks of a Glock as well and trying to be honest, I think we will try to go at least once a month to use it and we'd both have to get the proper instructions and such.

longbough

I implore you to get proper instruction when using a Glock - especially when it's devoid of a manual safety. Don't get me wrong - Unlike some people I don't feel it's an "inherently dangerous" weapon - but it does require decent training to use. That being said I have trained with the Glock and can testify that it's a reliable and tough piece of equipment. I would certainly trust my life to my Glock.

I have a Glock 23 chambered for .40
I would recommend either a Glock 22 or 23 because they're .40. I'm not as thrilled about 9mm. .45 is another option.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

Fire

whatever you settle on, get the required training, and then practice till you are sick of it (then practice some more) I personally like a 9mm because the ammo is cheaper than .40 or .45- by quite a lot- this means you will practice more- and therefore be more comfortable with the weapon, should you ever need it- practice as if your life depends on it, and like when said life is at stake you will be tired, shakey, terrified and disoriented- because that is how it is likely to be.... practice shooting while standing, sitting, kneeling, crouching and prone- get instruction first, and read everything you can about defensive handgunning, all the while practicing shooting.... it should be noted that while I am a fan of the 9mm, a ,45 has better stopping power, as does a .40- but they have more recoil and tend to be wider, and thus harder for smaller hands to get used to.........

__________________
Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

debaser

Tsk, Tsk.

Yes you can, you just have to pay the tax stamp, in this case they would all be AOW stamps since they don't have stocks. Of course they are also useless without stocks, IMHO, but YMMV.

__________________

Plan9

OR get yourself a Winchester Ranger in .357 / .44 Mag.

I love me some lever action. Quick, reliable, stealthy.

Best damn "assault weapon"... doesn't even look like one.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

longbough

OK I stand corrected. The Remington 870 MCS is not AOW but SBS but the Serbu is definitely AOW.

In any case it'd take nothing short of an act of God to get the ATF Form 4 signed by anybody in my state of California. It's probably different where you're at so more power to ya.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

Kpax

Well since you're moving it would probably be more pertinent to look into your new destination's regulatory things...

When I bought my revolver, there were about 3 forms to fill out, but I got to skip on one when I mentioned that I wasn't going to carry the weapon, but just keep it in the nightstand as home defense. That's all. For Washington, even though a blue state, it's really hassle-free, so long as your record is clean.

Now, for this state, if you're going to buy one but just keep it at home, you don't need a permit to carry, but without one you have to buy the gun, and they send in forms and you have to wait 10 days, then return to the store and pick up the gun. With a permit, that gives the store the legal ability to call the Federal Bureau of Investigation right after purchase, and they run your SS# and as soon as they clear it, you can walk right out the door with your new gun. For this state, a permit costs $60, takes two weeks to receive after applying, good for 5 years, and you have to go to the courthouse downtown to get it.

Remember, a firearm is only good if you aren't in close proximity with the assailant. If they close the distance, things get crazy. Remember to always announce that you have the weapon before you intend to use it, so that if it's a relative sneaking into the house with the intent of surprising you, they'll stop immediately and say, "Whoa! It's me! Don't shoot!" There was a college guy that snuck into his parents home, because he didn't want to wake them, and his dad shot him through the door to death by accident.

I've only bought revolvers, three of them to be exact. Not such a great carry weapon because it's so bulky and doesn't have a push-button safety, but it's a lot easier to keep track of bullets. With pistols/Glocks, "There's always one in the chamber..."

longbough

a revolver is a good choice.

.38, .357, .44, .45ACP ... all the big rounds are good for personal defense.

I'd have to disagree with the "I have a gun" declaration. What you're doing is called "brandishing" a weapon. I think it's a bad idea.

Below is an excerpt from an earlier post of mine which explains why:

"Some people believe that a firearm brandished in a threatening manner without shooting can stop a situation. It would make sense since, statistically, over 90% of confrontations have ended after presentation of the weapon. But I'd still have to disagree with "brandishing" as a threat for several reasons.

The ability to shoot another individual under the right circumstance requires training as well as mental and physical discipline. The decision to shoot takes place over a split second. When you brandish a weapon you have placed yourself in a "mental" grey zone where you can't account for all the possibilities at once. What if the person looks you in the eye and faces you - he doesn't attack - but he also doesn't run away? You'll notice many criminals don't quite cooperate even when facing several officers pointing guns at them. What do you do then? I'm not saying this will happen - but it does happen.

At that moment he has the moment to read your body language - (fear? confusion? anger?) - until you actually face the situation you don't know in advance how you'll truly react. A common trick is to confuse your senses by begging for mercy and holding their hands up while obviously advancing on you - Your ability to empathize gets mixed signals because your mind doesn't see any clear reason to shoot - it's extremely difficult to shoot someone looking at you begging for mercey while he's crawling toward you - even if you KNOW he's faking.

Let's say this was a confrontation in the home and he runs away. Now you have a criminal on the loose who knows where you live and knows you have a gun in the house. Most likely he won't come back. But sometimes they do ... If I were in that situation it'd be hard for me to sleep for a weeks/months knowing that someone might return.

Also, if you draw your weapon without the immediate intention to shoot - you are depending on some instinctual "trigger" to allow you to shoot as the situation demands. If the "trigger" isn't CRYSTAL CLEAR the delay will cost lives.

e.g. You have your gun drawn on a burglar who approaches you slowly with his hands in the air saying "Let's talk about this, buddy." You tell him to stop and talk from where he's standing - but he keeps approaching slowly calmly saying, "I'm not armed. I just want to talk." In your mind you know he's probably just trying to close the distance between you two - You keep yelling at him to "stop." but he doesn't..... at what point do you shoot (if at all)? When he's got his arms raised in the air and 20ft away? 15ft? 10ft? 5ft? ....

I don't want to be in that situation - that's why I don't brandish."

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=101330

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

The_Dunedan

THERE IS ALWAYS ONE IN THE CHAMBER.

OF EVERY FIREARM

AT ANY TIME

IN ANY CONDITION OR STATE OF REPAIR

PERIOD

This, Kpax, is Rule #1, the Prime Directive, the Highest Law Of The Range. There will be a test (every time you pick up the gun), no do-overs, no make-up grades, and no extra credit. You pass the test by not negligently shooting yourself or others, and by not pointing the gun at someone. Several years ago I was on a public range with an individual who "swept" the line with his shotgun. I told him not to do that again, that it was unsafe; he replied that the gun wasn't loaded. A few minutes later, he did it again, at which time I informed him that a repeat performance would result in the gun being taken from him and used to break all his front teeth off at the gums.* Unfortunately, this individual was a guest of the person with whom my girlfriend and I had ridden to the range, so there was no way for us to simply pack up the irons and leave. A few months later, this idiot muzzle-swept someone at a different facility, and they -did- kick the crap out of him. Don't be that guy.

As for safties...psh. There are only two safeties in the world that are worth a damn; the one you pull the trigger with and the one between your ears. Mechanical safeties are a damn good thing, obviously, and should be used where possible. But relying on the safety is a good way to fail that test I mentioned. Not drilling adequately in the use of the safety is another good way to fail the test, especially in a defensive scenario. This is why so many police depts adopted Glock pistols; no manipulative safety mean less training and less chance of an officer getting the safety mixed up ("Up is fire. No! Down!") in a hairy situation where seconds matter. Less training also means less money spent thereupon...which can then be spent on -really- fun things like M-113 APCs, or MP5s for the Ossifers to leave in their cars and have stolen.


People who forget these two life-and-death rules frequently pay with their lives or the lives of others. Buffalo hunters always "pay the insurance," even on head-shot animals, because "it's the dead ones that'll kill you." Same thing here. Even if the gun is torn down, it's loaded, because it's the "unloaded" ones that'll shoot you. Look up our old buddy RastaFed for a good example of this.

Announcing I have mixed feelings on. I'm a very practiced shootist, but I don't know for certain how I'd react in a defensive scenario. I don't believe in giving my enemy any extra knowledge about my position, but I also don't like the idea of shooting someone, even a scumbag. That's why I used a SureFire flashlight; so that I could illuminate, identify, and if needed dazzle the unknown intruder. The only exception to this was my 12-bore; I kept it with the chamber empty specifically for the noise. That distinct sound has scared many a burglar into a career change, and if it gets the bad guy out of my house I'm all for it. The .44 on the bedside table, however, was Condition Zero at all times. If someone was in/entering my bedroom, I did not plan to waste time with things like loading, mounting, and cheekweld.

Storage...lock it up to prevent theft if you feel that's needed. However, don't lock up your defensive firearm. Don't unload your defensive firearm. At most, load the magazine and leave the chamber empty. If you buy a revolver with an old-fashioned fixed firing-pin, store it with the hammer down on an empty chamber to prevent drop-fires. If the bad guy is in your house or bedroom rightnow, you won't have time to find the ammunition and load the weapon, much less fiddle around with things like safes and locks. If you absolutely insist upon locking it up, I'd take heed of Greg700's suggestion. I've seen the safe he uses, and it's good iron: rock solid, unobtrusive, and easy to access.



*I don't usually go in for things of this sort, but I had my girlfriend with me at the time and we'd been present for a Negligent Discharge about 6 months before. Nobody was hurt...but those first few seconds you spend making sure there aren't any holes in you or anyone else are -not- fun.

Kpax

Yeah. I wouldn't buy a pistol or Glock unless I became affluent with pulling 'em apart and putting 'em back together again like a pro, including completely unloading one. A revolver is all the complicated I need. I just like to know the weapon inside-out if I bring into my life. At the gun shop, you have to keep a gun you're checking out pointed to the floor. I imagine they would kick someone out with much eagerness if they didn't do this.

Someone who works in forensics told me that a pistol went off in the lab once and the bullet flew through two office walls.

Make no mistake, I even get an eerie feeling if someone so much as points a pulled-back rubber band at me. I went berserk on my brother for doing that. I probably would if someone pointed a 12 gauge at me, too.

ziadel

Must......not.......respond.......to.....glock comments......



(the vein in my forehead is bulging again)

__________________
Ron Paul '08
Vote for Freedom
Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

jorgelito

I have been thinking of getting a Mossberg (12 gauge") from the local sporting goods store as part of a home defense/security plan. It seems well priced and people around here speak highly of the Mossberg.

I also wanted to add a hand gun as well. Maybe a Glock 9mm or a Sig Sauer (but they are a bit pricey). To round out my equipment inventory, I have thought about maybe an assault rifle or something to that effect. Maybe an SKS or something like that.

I definitely plan on taking lessons, gun safety course, and practice at the range on a regular basis (perhaps once per week or so). My main concerns are proper technique, safety, accidental discharges, and harassment by law enforcement. The gun safe thing at home is interesting, but I have the same concerns that I wouldn't be able to get the gun out in time.

Slims

Jorgelito: Where do you live?

In all but the most socialist of states, you will experience absolutely ZERO harrassment from the authorities for owning a firearm. You will probably experience no problems obtaining a CCW or carrying, should you so choose.

I believe that most police, in most states, look at law-abiding gun owners as good citizens who are trying to take responsibility for their own well being. I shoot and compete with police officers and have never had any problems. I have also never had any problems while carrying, though I have been pulled over. When I showed the officer my permit he thanked me and let me leave without a speeding ticket. There are asshats with regards to weapons, but they are mostly concentrated in particular regions and are fairly rare elsewhere.

It is good that you and Fallon are both worried about the potential for an accidental discharge because you won't be complacent about learning safe gun-handling techniques. But firearms are not something to be viscerally afraid of either. Accidents only happen when people stop paying attention to safety and start doing something stupid.

Glocks are just as safe (safer actually, in my opinion) as revolvers. Unlike some older pistol designs (Ahem...) they have numerous internal safeties which prevent the weapon from firing under any circumstances other than the trigger being pulled. And, unlike single action automatics, they have a longer trigger pull and a trigger-safety (the little lever sticking out of the trigger) which prevents incidental trigger contact from causing a discharge. Accidents can happen, but they are usually the result of someone pulling the trigger.

I used to store my main defensive pistol in a handgun safe when I was in college, but back then I had all kinds of friends and acquaintances moving in and out of my apartment and I did not want to leave a firearm unprotected.

My lifestyle and needs have changed. Now my pistol is either on my person or on my nightstand. I want either my wife or I to have immediate access to a firearm at all times when we are home now. A few weeks ago someone stole her car right out of our driveway, before that someone shot out one of my windows, before that people followed her home. Oh, and on the fourth of july someone lit my mailbox on fire (from the inside) and burned my mail. Thugs tried to break into a neighbors house while his wife was home, but their pittbulls put an end to that. I feel that a home invasion is a very real possibility for us now, and I want to be prepared.

You guys will have to decide what level of readiness you are comfortable with based on your individual circumstances. Just remember that those circumstances can change very quickly.

Edit: Jorgelito, if a Sig-Sauer is too pricey, consider the S&W M&P. I took a risk and bought one, and now I love it. It is less expensive than a glock, but has many of the same features.

I am all for starting a collection, but I would take it slow...Don't start purchasing a bunch of weapons until you are competent and comfortable with whatever you buy first. I would far rather have one gun that I can shoot well than several that I shoot poorly. Ammunition is expensive and you can easily shoot your way through a hundred dollars worth of ammunition during a day at the range.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Fire

I like SKS's, but really, for the love of jebus, do not bubba it and put in a detachable mag, f-with the stock, etc- the gun works well as it is, and everyone has stripper clips now, which with training are as good as a detachable magazine is anyway- my sks was bubba'd and it has cost me almost enough to have bought another AK to make sure it is compliant, and reliable.... my next sks will be just as it was intended, straight outa the box.........or rather cosmoline.....

__________________
Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

jorgelito

Thanks for the awesome advice and info. I agree with what you guys are saying.

To clarify:

I live in California. Worse, I live in Southern California (where I am convinced the local government wants to very much deprive me of my rights).

I was thinking of starting with a shotgun, then pick up hand gun training and then lastly, look into the assault rifle.

Home invasion is a very real possibility here. Additionally, we are prone to disasters like earthquakes, floods, fires, and riots. For those reasons alone, I feel it is prudent to take precautions and security measures (I am not paranoid mind you and in any case, I feel it is my right as a lawful, law abiding citizen). I am trying to learn the lessons from the 1992 riots and Hurricane Katrina. Protect my loved ones, property, and water/power supply in the event of a disaster.

I think I will get the Mossberg and head over to the range for classes (gun safety, how to properly handle the weapon and to get used to it too.) A weapon is no good if one is incompetent or afraid of handling it.

The_Dunedan

Ugh. California is a hellhole for gunowners. If you're dead-set on staying (though I can't see why), get the Mossy and all the training you can afford. Buying a handgun in California is a straight-up neusance, and your rifle choices are quite severely limited, since pistol grips and detatchable mags on the same weapon are illegal. An M1 or M1-A will certainly do the job, but forget about an AR, AK, FAL, HK-91, etc. DSA does make a "California Special" 10-round, fixed-mag FAL with stripper-slip guides, but they sell for a hefty premium. Cali also bans standard-capacity magazines IIRC, so you're stuck with 10-rounders in any case. Expect to pay extra for a Cali-legal SKS, as well. You'll also have to register it as an "assault weapon" which could potentially have adverse consequences.

Plan9

California? Oh, sucks to be you (for buying guns, anyway).

Once again, a lever action in a magnum handgun caliber is a perfect legal "assault weapon" for those who need such a thing.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

moot1337

One further note: for self defense situations, make sure your shotgun is loaded up with buckshot - 0 or 00 would be the best bet. Many people argue that birdshot is better because it wont overpenetrate walls, but the problem is it won't penetrate a bad guy at all. Check out www.theboxotruth.com to see how different ammos perform in the average home defense situation... buckshot is actually a very nice performer, whether it's out of a 12 gauge or a 20 gauge.

__________________
And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be
banana-shaped.
This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again
how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
Oh, certainly, sir.

Plan9

ALSO: Sellier and Bellot makes rubber buckshot.

www.CheaperThanDirt.com sells it pretty cheap.

I use it myself. Broken ribs instead of bloody chunks.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

jorgelito

Interesting info I wasn't aware of before. But is it enough to STOP the intruder, especially if they are big.

Fire

the only thing guaranteed to stop and intruder is the death of said intruder- that said, you will want something other than rubber if your life is at stake- mind you, most people curl up and cry for mamma, when shot with rubber, but most rubber rounds have a minimum distance they have to be fired at to be considered less than lethal- and most of those distances are quite a bit farther than inside a house......so it may just wind up being a less deadly lethal round that pisses the bad guy off/ or somehow, being as its in california, gets you sued...... EDIT yeah, all the rubber stuff I could find is lethal at 25 yards or less- sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen if you use it in the P.R.C.

__________________
Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

longbough

As much as I love guns I think the absolute best home defense is having a good dog.
My border collie wakes me up whenever he hears something at night by jumping on the bed and standing at attention facing the door. That's my signal to open the door so he can patrol the house. If we hear a noise he stands between me and the source.
Nothing better than a great dog.

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"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

Plan9

No, having Samuel L. Jackson from Pulp Fiction at your front door is the best home defense.

But I digress.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

longbough

... or a moat filled with gators and a drawbridge... which is about as affordable as having Sam.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

Plan9

GATORS! (jaws-go-snap-snap)

I dunno... Sam is pretty cheap if you keep a steady supply of Big Kahuna burgers coming.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."