Artsemis

Here's the setup:
Okay, now the problem. The store uses inventory software (DOS-based application) that is installed on the server, along with QuickBooks. If either program is run on the server, it launches with no problem and pretty quick. However, if any of the 3 other PC's run the program (they use the .exe located on the server to run it locally) it takes forever to populate the inventory or load the QuickBooks database. The strange thing is, one of the PC's seems to almost always be -much- faster than the other 2, but still not at fast as the server.

This issues also just started poping up last week, it hasn't always been like this. It is very frustrating to check inventory when a customer is there waiting.

Things I have tried:
-Disabling anti-virus software
-Trying a new PC inplace of the ones going slow
-Running a new network cable directly from the hub to one of the slow PCs
-Reboot the hub



Can a failing hub function, but function slowly?
If I have a crossover cable, how do I easily set up a connection from the server to one of the PCs to test that quickly to eliminate the hub as a possibility?

Any other ideas? Im not sure why this issue would pop up out of nowhere and since the whole PC was replaced it is definately in the networking or the server itself I would think.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

catback

if you wanna hook the server to a pc using cross over cable just use the cable to connect network card to network card. What OS's are you running? Is there network activity that's hogging bandwidth? How are the ping times? These are all things to check.

Artsemis

All PC's use WinXP. I didn't check ping times, however transfering about 350 megs in files was going to take around an hour+

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

bendsley

Are you actually running a hub or a switch and you're calling it a hub? If you're running a hub, then your bandwidth is shared between the number of machines on the network, equally.

If you have 4 PCs and say 100mb, then each PC on a hub get 25mb. If you're using a switch, then each computer gets 100mb. The reason switched networks are faster is because they are layer 2 aware. They have memory chips in them that act like access lists and these lists keep track of the MAC addresses connected to it. At this layer, data packets are encoded and decoded into bits. It furnishes transmission protocol knowledge and management and handles errors in the physical layer, flow control and frame synchronization. The data link layer is divided into two sublayers: The Media Access Control (MAC) layer and the Logical Link Control (LLC) layer. The MAC sublayer controls how a computer on the network gains access to the data and permission to transmit it. The LLC layer controls frame synchronization, flow control and error checking.

Lets say you want to send a file to ComputerD from ComputerA on a network with a hub. ComputerA starts sending out packets of information. The hub has no idea where you're intending it to go, so it sends it to every port, hoping that ComputerD is somewhere on the network and will answer. If you're on a switched network, ComputerA will will broadcast to ComputerD, ComputerD replies with an acknoledge and the switch routes the information to ComputerD only.

It sounds like if your network is lagging this much, you are getting collisions. Switches understand a subset protocol called CSMA/CD (Carrier Sense Multiple Access / Collision Detection). The hub will not care about this.

Switches are cheap. You can probably get an 8-port switch for maybe $35 or so. I can't imagine them being too much since you do not need a managed switch(I'm not going to get into (un)managed switches right at the moment). I recommend Linksys for your home network.

If you have a crossover cable, instead of going from the Server to the hub to the computer, remove the hub. Server -> computer. The hub acts as the crossover cable, hence the reason when you have the hub or switch that you use straight-through patch cable (most likey Cat5E/Cat6, though there is no reason really for Cat6).

Also, I guess it could be possible that one of your computers is infected with something and it sending out a large amount of broadcast messages. Most multicast messages can bring a network to its knees if there are enough of them.

__________________
"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

spindles

If you are getting that 1 hour thing from the windows explorer dialog when you start copying - it is horribly unreliable. doing pings between the machines should help.

Is it a hub or a switch? a hub is really quite inefficient in how it networks, so it may be worth replacing with a switch...

Explanation of difference between switch and hub

edit - doh! what bendsley said

Also, if you have firewall software it may be possible to see which programs are accessing the network - this can help tell if you are being flooded by something...

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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

bendsley

yeah, spindles, I kind of explained some of that in the post above about the difference between hubs and switches.

__________________
"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

spindles

yep - i was half way through my post, went and had some lunch, then finished it...

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Artsemis

It is a hub.

And none of that is relevant since I said the problems arose a week ago. The business has been using this setup for years. Its not a virus on the PC either since one of the slow machines was just replaced with a fresh machine and still had the same problem.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

spindles

it could be a virus, if it is flooding your network - you just know it is not coming from the machine you replaced. Even a virus on the server could cause this kind of behaviour.

Edit:


Also, this screen shot is from my firewall software - as I said above this kind of thing could help you diagnose if it is a network traffic issue.

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

bendsley

You're asking for help, so don't start to think that none of this is relevant that we're telling you. We're trying to help, so take what we say with some significance ok? Otherwise, I'll tell you just to deal with the issue.

First off, replace the hub with a switch. I don't care if it's worked in the past; we're not in the past anymore and you need to look at some quality of service anyway. That being said, the switch should help.

Yes, what we said can be relevant, because if one of your network cards is going bad and sending a hojillion packets to the network, your whole network is going to slow down. A switch will help to prevent something like that.

If this just started recently, its going to most likely be one of the following:[indent]1) virus/adware on machine(s), new or not. Windows is not hard to infect, don't fool yourself[indent]2) bad network card(s). Ethereal is a free packet sniffer that can aid you in telling if this is the case.[indent]3) the hub is failing. Whether or not the hub is working, go spend the few dollars and get an 8 port switch. (You can get these from Newegg for about $30)

Don't assume its not a virus. Viruses are getting sneakier by the day, and if you aren't sure whats going on with your network, then chances are you aren't completely sure it's not a virus.

/begin rant
I get sick of people on here asking for help and several people take the time to help them solve the problem they are having only to have the initial poster say "no, that's not it, you're wrong". Point in case, if you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be asking.

This isn't a suggestion thread asking for opinions on building a machine or something, this is a thread about something being broken and you need help with it.

/end rant

__________________
"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

Artsemis

I meant no offense. Im a computer technician / programmer and have a good idea of what Im doing, this one was just stumping me. I was positive it wasn't spyware, virus, etc. because of some of the things I tried.

Anywho, it was the thing I thought. I tried replacing the hub today with another hub and everything was fine.

I do appreciate the responses, I really do so dont try and turn that around. I was just stating that I know its not what was suggested.

Anyways, issue is fixed.. thanks once again.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

Artsemis

Oh, and trust me, if it were up to me I'd replace the hub with a switch or router. However, its up to the company and they do not wish to change something that has worked for them in the past.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

xepherys

a) Yes, a hub CAN go bad and work worse than before. If your hub has collision lights on it, check them out. If not, well... assume the hub is at least part of the problem (though even for such simple equipment as a SOHO switch, I would not recommend Linksys... Had many in the past, both personally and professionally, and they are not as good as other. D-link tends to be cheaper AND more reliable overall).

b) If multiple PCs are having the problem, it is likely the server. You said the inventory is a DB of some sort. Is it just a flat-file? Is it an SQL DB? If it's flat-file, have you checked the file size? Perhaps something happened (a buffer overflow or other rare occurance) during a write to the flatfile and it got hosed?

Artsemis

I like D-Link as well, though I have no reason to dislike Linksys either, I love my Linksys router.

It is a flatfile. And though multiple computers were effected, not all computers were. But anyways, the issue is solved but you may have missed the post -- it was indeed the hub. Replaced it with another basic hub and all was back to normal.

Thanks again for the help guys, even when I was in doubt I did try everything mentioned up until I replaced the hub.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

catback

what company is this you speak of...They sound like they're living in the dark ages, no money for a switch, no money to get better inventory software (the kind that runs off an actual database and doesn't run on DOS), and no money to get a better internet connection. Geez there comes a point when you have to throw cost cutting into the wind and spend money. I hope they aren't still using rotary-pulse telephones. :-D

Artsemis

Its a small, local car shop.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

xepherys

So they probably ARE using at least pulse phones, if not rotary. Unless they came to be in the 50's or 60's... then they probably just have a pay phone! ~_^

Artsemis

I think it explains it all when I say the connection be shared across the 3 PC's (and server) is dial up.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

xepherys

Well, since you're using a hub it indicates you are at LEAST not running 10-Base2 anymore.

seven7

upgrade to a switch, test the cables, one bad nic or cable could cause a slowdown, especially with a hub