Ok. Seriously. Why do you hate Macintosh?
 

Since I have switched over to Mac, I have reflected a lot upon the whole anti-Mac fiasco. I am extremely fluent in XP, and it has allowed me to really see what OS X does better than XP. I would like to hear what you all have to say. What do you not like about the Macintosh platform? What needs do you have that a Mac cannot address? I would like intelligent answers only please. Save us all the "because they suck" shit. I reserve the right to interject with rebuttals as appropriate.

I honestly like macs better then PC so I am not sure what you are talking about. I do not currently own a Mac but I would like one. The only things holding me back from getting one is my small amount of funds, and the fact that I am really not that capable with handling Mac operating systems(but I'm sure this would come to me very fast if I owned one)

Not as modifiable. I can't "build" a Mac to suit my needs.

A lot of software I find necessary does not operate on Mac.

Not much of a gaming machine; the amount of games made for Mac doesn't compare favorably with my pc.

But Macs are definitely cool. I'd love to have one, but for the price.

If I didn't know how to build my own machine, I'd probably get a Mac.

docbungle: tell me why you feel the need to build a machine. How would an off the shelf Mac not do what you need it to? And what software (aside from games) do you need for PC that is not available on Mac? I suppose I should have said to exclude the whole gaming thing in my original post.

Macs are for people who use 3 programs exclusively.

What macs are designed to do, they do very well. Video Editing, publishing, 3D Modelling. Most other stuff they suck at, or don't have the needed support.

Look at how many programs are avaliable for XP, and look at the number for mac. . .

Also, if 2 mouse buttons are entirely too much for you to handle then get a Mac.

I'm a network engineer.

I used an apple a little in College, 15 years ago, and have been a die-hard Windows user since then, mostly for the games support. Since the advent of XML, I've been using IE because it supports cline-tside XSL and other advanced features more than other browsers. My co-workers mosltly switched to Mac's when OX-S came out. I switched over four days ago on Monday.

I don't know how I ever lived without it. I'v already been able to do things I've never been able to do in XP. I've been able to run 400mbit iperf tests to my desktops (XP can't handle that kind of rate) to research and fix backbone latency and loss problems. I've been able to use my desktop as my development platform for my server-side XSLT, XML, and perl monitoring applications. It has the three basic functions I need: e-mail, web, and ssh, but it can also serve as a known-good platform for network testing and as a development platform for my perl and XSLT apps.

That being said, I don't see how I could ever get one for home. My work machine cost several thousand dollers. My home machine cost several hunderd (for an AMD64 no less.) My needs at home center around ssh, e-mail, web, and ... games .

The Mac can't compete in games or cost.

1. Macs are way too expensive. I can build a PC for $1000 that would cost $2000 or more for a Mac of the same performance.

2. I want a right-click. When using MacOS, every single time I want to modify a file or open a file with a different app or see file info I can't unless I do 3 or 4 absolutely useless steps. Why should I have to go through 4 windows to choose a different app to open a file? With a PC, I right-click and choose the program. Simple. I see file info with a right click. I copy and paste with a right click. Simply put, right-click adds more functionality to an OS.

3. Software. I use a ton of programs on PC. Not all of those programs are on Mac, and frankly, I need them. Why use an OS that has limited software?

4. Gaming. I'm a hardcore PC gamer (console too though!), and Macs are severely limited in their gaming libraries. Oh, and I CAN'T RIGHT CLICK TO JUMP IN BATTLEFIELD!!! Playing a game without right click would be like playing a game with one arm. Not to mention a Mac that will play the games at the settings I want would cost more than my car.

5. I've never used a Mac that I can navigate quickly. Like I said about the right-click, PCs and their dreaded Windows are simply more easy to navigate if you're a hardcore PC dork. I can't blaze through tasks on a Mac like I do on a PC. This is for many reasons: no right click; the fundamental basis of the OS is different from Windows (and inefficient if ya ask me)...you gotta use the Master-Bar (or whatever it's called) at the top to do everything. Using a PC with Windows, the taskbar and application options are second-hand to the mouse and keyboard. It seems that the mouse and keyboard on a Mac is second-hand with the Master-Bar being the primary input device. This slows down the ability of Macs when compared to PCs.

6. I have yet to use a fast Mac. I don't mean hardware fast, I mean OS fast. Everything I do in MacOS is sluggish and lagged. When I try to turn the volume down, I have to "grab" the bar with the mouse twice because the lag prevents it from going to 0. When I open two browsers at once it basically has a brain aneurism. These are really expensive Macs I've used as well...Macs capable of running an OS smoothly. When a Mac of over 1 GHz CPU speed is running slower than my K6-2 at 400 MHz with Windows, something is wrong.


Simply enough, I've used a PC extensively and a Mac extensively and I've simply been limited in how I use the OS on a Mac. The OS isn't as polished as Windows and is very inefficient in the way simple navigation is handled. There are useless steps throughout the entire OS that Windows bypasses with a really easy solution.

Now, some Mac advantages:

1. They look cool. Really cool. I like the LCDs that you can turn wherever ya want.

2. That's about it!

-Lasereth

http://www.noapologiespress.com/pseudo/Mac.html

That's why.

Just buy a regular USB mouse. That opens up the right-clicking cababilities.

Yes, I do agree with this. But like I previously said, just pick up a regual two button USB mouse. There are a lot of games for Mac, but they are just really hard to find.

Try a G4. You won't notice any of that. Plus, the volume control is built right into the keyboard. :)


All in all, I do agree that Macs are different than PCs, but once you get to know how to use the new OS X, it gets much easier. There are some features that a Mac can do that a PC can't, and visa versa.

But for what I use it for, it works a hell of a lot better than PC. I'm in advertising, and I've noticed a considerable speed advantage on a mac in all Adobe programs. For what you were doing, a mac was not needed.

That didn't really explain why you like/dislike Macs. It just spoke about brand marketing.

My answers are similar to others.
-You cannot build a Mac to suit your needs / no 3rd party hardware
-Available software is, well, lacking...severly lacking.
-This may be simple...but I despised using my Mac for one simple reason...when you click on a file the file name becomes "live"....now hit escape....THE F*&$^#G FILE NAME IS GONE!! wtf??? ESC is supposed to be a nevermind, hold it, stop, nevermind what you are doing, I changed my mind key....NOT ERASE!

The one thing I will say for Macs is this... having a multiple OS's on a multi partition drive....SOOOOO much easier than a PC!

I admire the architecture and I wish there could be PPC systems that aren't Apples and there was a windows version for it (NT4 did have a PPC version but not since). My anti-mac sentiments start with

Price

They're like 2x as much as an x86 system that is comparably powerful. I don't need pretty...I need functional. Now the Apple's arch is superior than x86 instruction wise, but I'm not gonna pay for it when I can get something the same basic power for as low as half the price.

Lack of Hw control

You can upgrade your RAM, cards, and drives but that's about it. I want to be able to build a system from scratch and save even more money than buying a prefab Dell and get a better system as well for my money.

Pretty is ugly


I don't need my PC to be sexy. I like it to be HARD looking, or at least have my case serve it's purpose. I don't need a computer that looks like I got it from Pottery Barn. I'm not paying for the decor either. Macs look too damn decor/fruity for me.





Apps/games

This has been said to death, but I want to be able to play any PC game my system can handle on the market. Macs could handle most games, alas the arch isn't the same and devs don't bother porting 90% of games to the Mac. If it weren't for games I would have converted to Linux two years ago. Also your choice of apps is very few and far between compared to Windows and even Linux from what I've seen.



so in summation; I respect the Mac's architecture. They're too pricey. pretty and incompatible with most software I wish to run. Hence I wont' buy one.

I agree that Macs are better in some respects but for an average user a PC is just a better value. Most people are not going to be using photoshop or other obscure programs that are optimized for Macs. I believe most people use their computers to check email, browse the web and write word documents. It is only on a PC that you can achieve these goals for $300 or $400. I went to apple's website and it appears that the most basic computer will cost $1000 this just seems to be too expensive for the average home user.

I really don't prefer Mac Vs. PC Vs. other OSes ... they each have their strong points and their weaknesses. I don't believe that any one of them is better than the other, generally speaking. Except when it comes to hardware and THEN Mac and PC are pretty much the same in my book. If you want to talk Sun/Solaris that's a different story.

The problem I have with this issue is that <i>most</i> people try to reduce it to black and white. It's not. It really comes down to what tool you are most comfortable with to do the job. Someone brought up video editing. I think the playing field is level there as far as Mac and PC goes; but if you're talking about ultra-high-end video editing and animation you'd want to look at *nix OSes.

I use PC for multi-track audio. Industry standard is Mac version of Pro-Tools. The reason I use PC? It's more affordable. I know <i>exactly</i> what hardware I'm using. I've built what I believe to be a machine that is comparable to a pro-sumer level Pro-Tools rig for a third of the cost. But if someone wanted to <i>give</i> me a real Pro-Tools rig I'd certainly appreciate it.

So I posted that link because I believe that's what this argument is really about ... brand loyalty.

I want to be different. So I build my own computer. And the only thing you can build to my specifications is a PC. I can't build a custom Mac.

If I want to put 680 GB of hard drive space in a Mac, I am screwed. If I want to get 10,400 marks on 3dmark2003 on a Mac, I am screwed. If I want to use the programs I use daily on a PC with a Mac, I am screwed.


I realize Macs are aesthetically cool, and the OS is pretty stable, but it's just not what I want. That's why I dislike Macintosh. They are too expensive for something with less functionality than a PC.

I have seen a lot of complaints so far about the lack of software, could some chime back in and tell me what software you need that is not available for Mac? I think the whole "look at how many apps there are for Mac and then how many are for PC" argument doesn't hold much water anymore. I believe there are over 6,000 applications available for OS X.

Lasareth:
2. Your right click equivalent is the Control-Click, it will give you a similar sub-menu with one option being "Get Info" or Properties on XP. Clicking "Open With" will give you another sub-menu that will allow you to open the file with the program of your choice. This can also be done from the "Get Info" screen and you have the option of designating a program for the file to always open with... and it actually works.

3. A routine sweep of an Apple Store will show you all the software you will ever need. It did for me.

4. I am not a gamer, so I won't even attempt to defend that. I know that Mac is not a gaming machine.

5. You mentioned that you cannot navigate through a Mac quickly. I will state again that I am extremely flutent in XP, and I honestly say that OS X is easier to get around in. Again, your right click is now a Control-Click, OS X nav is somewhat keyboard focused. Control-Click for submenus, Command-Click to open a link in a new tab in Safari... and so on.

6. I have a 1.25 Ghz PowerBook G4 and I find it to be plenty fast for the apps I use it for (Photoshop, Final Cut, DVD Studio Pro...)

I read in an article some time back when a ZDnet journalist switched to Mac
for a month right after OSX came out and he said you *can* use a 3 button mouse so you can have right click if you wanted to. Just thought I'd let you know.


I could prolly find replacement apps for most of my stuff, but I *need* Newsbin Pro. NOTHING comes even close to it's power. I've gotten extremely attached to the Proxomitron too. Most P2P apps are easy to set and use on windows, but I hear Mac guys saying they have trouble finding good clients.

I have run OSX on my PC using PearPC. It was slow of course on this old 1.8Ghz but I found it easy enough to navigate. I like the fact you can use *nix apps on it with Fink but the reasons above prevent me from being a Mac convert any time soon.

It all boils down to price and upgradeability.

Can't help you here...as I JUST BOUGHT A MAC!
A lovely little G4/400 (Sawtooth) that I will upgrade, then grow old with. This thing will be up-to-speed for around $700 total. :thumbsup:

The software issue is slightly mitigated by the fact that OSX lets Mac users run UNIX-based software, but the gaming issue is a serious hold-up for me. I play video games. Lots of video games. I can't do that on a Mac.

I build computers religiously. Why? Because it's fun. I thorougly enjoy being elbows-deep in the guts of a case, building something to play with. I can't do that with a Mac. I don't want my case to look like a fruit-basket or a modern art sculpture. I want it to look like a functional chunk of metal.

I have used Macs frequently, but overall I prefer the x86 architecture. OSX doesn't have anything to offer me - I run FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Fedora on some of my other computers - in addition to my XP gaming rig. Having a unified hardware platform among my computers makes life very easy.

It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. An eMac with a 1.25 GHz G4 processor, 17-inch flat CRT display, 40GB Ultra ATA drive, 256MB of 333 MHz DDR SDRAM, combo drive (cd burn/dvd read), ATI Radeon 9200 graphics w/32 DDR video memory, two firewire 400 ports and three USB 2.0 ports, 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet and 56K V.92 modem, and AirPort and bluetoothe ready for $799 is one hell of a deal. And I didn't even have to build it.

The response to this above bears repeating, as it is also a myth. Just because a single button mouse comes with the computer, does not mean
you cannot simply use a three button mouse in it's place. I can right click, left click, scroll, and go forward and back pages on my mouse on my mac with OSX.

You mean like MS Word? You have to present a list for a claim like this. What are the top 10 programs you use on windows? I'll show you mac versions that are on the same level and can communicate with windows.

I sure love playing Unreal on my computer. I love Warcraft. I love a lot of games that my video card does not have troubles with. Actually the list of games not available for mac is much shorter than the list of games available. It's roughly 1/12 the size. An if my computer costs more than your car, you must be driving something made by mercury before 1984.

We don't need to revisit your right click mistake. Master bar is at bottom on PC, and top on Mac. We also have the dock, if you are using OSX.

This is unfounded. Of course there are fast Macs, just as there are fast PCs. If you grabbed the bar on the volume, you are using OS 9.2 or older. Get a new machine and try it.


You have not used Macs extensively. I am not sure you have used Pcs extensively.

This is a wonderful exapmle of bias and lack of information. I am sorry you have chosen to have an unfounded bias towards Mac, but there's no need to spread it.

haha, your post may be cool and everything and explanatory, but I assure you Lasereth has used PCs and Macs quite extensively :) in fact, I'd wager he knows quite a bit more than you ever imagine about PCs......and enough to make an educated decision about Macs


the poster asked why we hate macs, and he responded......this isn't a tennis match. those reasons he listed are the reason he doesn't like macs, no reason to get shitty about it

I think the only real drawback I have about macs are the price. They are a bit more pricey, but the availability of manufacturers is also very limited. How many companies do you know that produce Macs vs. how many companies produce x86 architecture PC's.

I do like Macs quite a bit though as I'm trying to convince the company I work for to get a dual G5 machine(that would just be sweet).

I do agree that Macs are limited somewhat in the software arena, except software such as graphics, desktop publishing and web design. I also think there is a lot more innovation that goes into Macs as opposed to their PC counterparts.

If ya take a look at the thread title, it's why do YOU hate Macintosh's, not "why do Macs suck." I gave the reasons why *I* don't like them, not the reason why they're bad systems. I still believe everything I said to a full extent. And that Mac you listed can be built for $300 on a PC. What a ripoff. $800 is an absurd amount for such a crappy system. $800 will build a PC 3 or 4 times more powerful than the "system" you listed.

Ok, so you can right-click in OSX with a new mouse. Macs still come with the single click mouse by default...they're made for it. Right-click is a "new feature" with OSX. Windows has had right clicking since the early nineties. Earlier versions of MacOS are still hindered by this. Not to mention PC's come with a right-click capable mouse and Macs have to have an "extra option" to get something a PC comes with by default. It's simply a downside that most of the Macs on the market have no right-click on the mouse.

I want MS Office on my Mac. Not the idiot Mac-version, either. I want every option the PC version has. The Mac versions I've used of Office are dumbed down with extra windows that can be eliminated with an OS...like Windows.

Macs do have a large software base, but it's not as large as PC's. That's a problem no matter what. I can't stand having a limited software base.

I know about OSX, I use it at work everyday. The dock does make matters slightly easier, but the stupid MasterBar at the top simply hinders the speed of navigating MacOS. About the volume bar...I did this on OSX. All of my opinions are founded on OSX.

Oh, and keep the "I'm not sure you have used PCs extensively" comments to yourself. I displayed my opinion without bashing and with a knowledgable basis. If you don't think I've used PCs extensively, try me. :) I can throw-down with some PC talk. Degrading comments about other posters will only get ya a ticket out of this forum...I suggest an attitude improvement on isle B.

You can argue that I'm biased, but that's what this thread is about. It asks why WE don't like Macs, not why they're bad systems. I gave my opinions about every Mac I've used. I told why I don't like them.

-Lasereth

If he is not aware of something as simple as mouse ability on an Apple made computer, he does not know very much about Macs, much like someone who does not know the pothagorean therum is not going to be a good mathemitician. Becuase this information source is now suspect, the rest of the information presented is also suspect. He may know a great deal about PCs, but he might not. He claimed to have used Macs extensively but made a simple error.

I do not claim to know much about PCs of Windows. I have only an elementary understanding of them, becuase I have had limited experience with them. I do have a good deal of experience with Macs. 20 years of experience, actually. I survived the clone wars (mac clones), and I am now living in a time when Apple has become respected by some again.

I'm sure you ment snippy and not shitty. This isn't a tennis match after all.

I respect those who use PCs and there ARE reasons to use a PC over a Mac. The opinions listed were based on half truths. Opinions can be wrong, when based on missinformation.

Lasareth:
You mentioned that PC has been doing the right click thing since the early nineties, lets not forget who invented the mouse, and can do everything with 1 button that you can do with 2.

About MS Office: look into Office 2004, many reviewers have said the Macintosh version is actually better than its Windows counterpart. It has every feature you would see in the XP version.

Again on the "lack" of software: you have still failed to name some applications you need that are not available on Mac. willravel and I have invited those to list needed applications, and we will give you a just-as-fuctional Mac counterpart.

Like your version of the cheap mac. That system is so stripped down you couldn't do shit with it. 256 MB RAM is nothing, 512 is the standard. 40GB HDD is tiny, 80-120 is standard, CD combo+DVD read is outdated, DVD writing is in.

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4089462
Cheaper and better

I listed two I use daily and can't see being without at this time:

Newsbin pro
Proxomitron


If I had more time I'm sure I could dig up more. I was surprised to see how many games are supported now but it's still a wide berth by comparison. And like was said before I could build a great system for 800 bucks, and not have to settle for an entry level Mac. I understand they use good quality parts and PPC is a great arch as I've said before, but I don't have a reason to switch. Server 2003 works just fine (read:it sucks less than other versions of windows).

Okay, let's add the ram to 512, the hdd to 80 and the dvd to writing: $1074 without assembling a thing.

Holo: Newshunter 2.1.5 is a good version for Mac of the Usenet binary posting and downloading utility. I'm not sure about a web filter for Mac, I have heard friends complain about Proxomitron though. I coulnd't substantiate those complaints though, so I'll say I don't know about a Proxomitron replacement or equal on Mac.

Why I hate Macs:

1) They're "missing" a mouse button.
2) Upgrade? What's an upgrade?
3) How many games for Mac? Now, how many games for PC?
4) Instructions on how to open your Mac: Step 1 - Grab sledgehammer...
5) Everyone who knows nothing about anything swear by Macs "because they have cool colors!"
6) No Start Menu. You have to access everything from the hard drive directly.
7) The fact that so many people ignorantly and stubbornly stick by these abominations.
8) I can build two top-notch PC's for the price of one going-out-of-style Mac.
9) They are not part of the Microsoft monopoly, which owns me and everyone else who uses a computer.
10) A powerful PC can emulate Mac OS. :thumbs up:

re: The master bar at the top.

one of the reasons, I wish I could find the article that talked about it (It might have been Joel Spolsky "User Interface design for programmers"), the master bar is at the top is because it's much easier for a user to move the mouse pointer all the way to the edge of a screen than it is to hit an arbitrary point in the middle of the screen. It's the same reason the taskbar is at the bottom, unless you move it, and generally why the Office taskbar and OSX dock are located against the edge of the screen.

That's also why all (most? I'm not sure, I'm not a Mac owner yet) applications written for the Mac have to use the master bar as their menu bar. So the user doesn't have to hunt around for the applications menu.

It sounds like it'd be more confusing to the user for the menu to keep changing depending on which app is running, but it isn't. It's easier for the user to hit the menu target than to go down 10-20 pixels more to the applications menu (a'la Windows applications).

As for why I'm thinking of switching from PC to a Mac for home use (I'm a Windows based developer at work), I'll point to this post (http://www.blognewsnetwork.com/membe.../30.html#a6685) by Adam Curry (yes, that Adam Curry. He of the big hair MTV fame)
edit: Whoops, I remembered the title is "why do you hate macs?" I hate them because they cost more than Wintel based PC's and I'm not sure how much more bang for my buck I'm getting since the architecture is so different. Being able to write for specific hardware does make a difference. My XBox is much less powerful than my XP Desktop, but my Xbox will be able to run Doom3 @ 60FPS, Doom3 with everything turned off on my desktop is a slideshow. So a 1GhZ Mac may perform just as well or better than a 2GhZ PC depending on the configuration and the amount of cruft on the Windows box.

That and the Macs are kinda fruity, pun intended. :D

Douglas Engelbart invented the mouse at Stanford Research Institue in the late '60s.

The only reason I hate mac.....There is absolutely no software out there in the process/automation world for it. So I can't do my daily job.

4. You've obviously never opened one then. Opening a G4 is as simple as pulling a stylish lever on the case. The case opens up like a clamshell, with the motherboard lying flat on the table. Can you say easy? G5 is no different.
6. Don't need a Start Menu. You want to launch Word? Click its icon in the Dock. Simple. Want to access a file in your Documents folder? Open Macintosh HD, click Documents in the left pane. Done.
7. We stick by our machines for very good reason. They work. They are virtually invulnerable to all the "abominations" of the PC world. You know, viruses, trojans, adware, spyware, malware, Windows, IE... I did a scan of my computer via Symantec's site. My computer cannot even be seen by the outside world, even with the firewall disabled.

1. They arn't missing a mouse button.
2. We occasionally have security updates, but not every 3 or 4 days like PCs. Macs come ready to use and do not need upgrades for a few years.
3. ABOUT THE SAME. There are slightly more games for PC that are popular now, but the number is fast falling.
4. Instructions for Mac. Plug in and press power.
5. Yes, Macs are better looking than any other computer.
6. We have something called a dock. A dock can hold applications and links, much like a startup menu.
7. The fact that people don't know much about Macs, yet persist in continuing the lies.
8. I don't have to build a Mac, they come pre assembled.
9. Aren't a part of the Microsoft monopoly.
10. A meduim Mac can emulate Windows legaly.

So yeah...
To rehash, Windows does everything I need it to do. Mac does not. Why trade? Especially when building a pc to suit your SPECIFIC needs is so easy? And so much cheaper. With a Mac...you are given a few different systems to choose from, prebuilt. I run away from anything computer-based that is prebuilt.

And as far as all this virus and trojan horse business....the more educated Windows users don't have much of a problem with these things. And if they do pop up, they are easily dealt with.

Windows just flat out has more options, more compatibility and less price.

Mind you, I'm a Linux fan totally. Hell, I'll prollay be putting it on this computer pretty soon. This is the argument Linux newbies use. If you believe that because you use a Mac, you're totally wrong. There will come a time that virus writers will start targetting Macs, as well as Linux. Just because you haven't gotten hit yet, doesn't mean that your computer is better then anyone elses.

As to why I personally do not like Macs? All of mine opinions are based off of the older stuff and I know that OSX is a hell of a lot better, but old feelings die hard. Now, when you go tell me to go out and try it, when you send me one, sure I will. I can not afford $800 to go buy a low-end Mac, but i can buy myself a mid-range PC for $300 that I built myself. And buying preassembled? I stopped that after my mother bought a computer that's only been running like shit from when she got it. Now I hold a stigma against any computer that is preassembled. I won't complain about the software because I'm not really attached to any one program but I do love Escape Velocity: Nova

1. Yes, they are. :) They're also "missing" a mousewheel.
2. The fact that Microsoft provides updates on a regular basis shows the dedication they have into making their products as user-friendly as possible.
3. That's a lie, and you, me, and everyone else in the world knows that.
4. Exactly. You don't get a choice of quality for different components of your system. You're stuck with one colorful box of crap, and if you want something better, you either go get a PC or throw your Mac out and buy a brand new one. With a PC, you can have the same system for YEARS, and for $80 you can upgrade the storage memory; $20 upgrade the random access memory; $85 upgrade the video card. Sure as hell beats $2000 on a brand new non-upgradeable piece of crap. That's a hefty price to pay for not wanting to learn how to plug a few (labeled) things to the back of a PC.
5. Personally, I'd rather have an Alienware PC than a Mac. But that's just a personal measure of taste (opinion).
6. Are you talking about that long strip of unlabeled icons that stretches horizontally across the screen?
7. a) I know quite a bit about Macs. I've used them since Macs were first released, all the way up through high school in my graphic arts class. b) I haven't once lied about Macs. They ARE crap.
8. Read #4 about the "hefty price."
9. And that's one very small saving grace. Oh yeah, if you run Windows on your Mac, Microsoft still owns you.
10. Actually, there's a completely separate Windows MADE for Macs, because many find the Mac OS to be too cumbersome and lame to use, so they resort to trying to make their Macs as much like a PC as possible.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: Don't take this personally. It's just I know what quality is, and that's what I choose over paying a ton of money to skip a 10-minute hook-up process and throwing away an abundance of accessibility and ease-of-use.

like PC's? Let's not forget that the x86 architecture runs a variety of operating systems. I believe you're referring to that shitty OS called Windows?

FreeBSD is known to be VERY well hardened against attacks. Get your story straight.

1. We have been doing just fine with only one mouse button since our machines have been around.
2. The fact that Microsoft knew about a certain security flaw 3 weeks before they patched it is apalling. Since I have had my Mac (6+ months), I can count the number of security updates needed on one hand. There were more security updates needed for XP in one week.
4. You don't get a choice for quality components that are in your system. They get top line parts put in off the shelf. They also adhere to much stricter quality control standards than other manufacturers.
6. Yes, that is the Dock. It has all the icons you would see on an XP desktop, only at a higher resolution and they scale much better. Even if you dont know what the icon for Word looks like, roll your mouse over it, and its name "Microsoft Word" is revealed.
10. I literally cannot imagine anyone finding OS X cumbersome to use, but whatever. Trying to sound as unbiased as I can, I will (again) reiterate again that I am very fluent in XP, and I find OS X much easier to use and navigate. Applications do not crash, and the OS does not lock up for no apparent reason

*still waiting for his software list*

bendsley - 1000 pardons. I did mean Windows, more specifically than PCs. I am actually a big fan of FreeBSD. I am not used to making that destinction, so I'll have to change my lingo.
Cityofangels -
1.I am typing on a computer that has a little apple insignia on the computer and attached to that is none other than a mouse with 4 buttons and a mousewheel. Yes, it came seperatly, but I am still quite certian that Mac's can use multi-use mouses.
2. I apprciate that Windows seems to be intersted in keeping your computer safe, but why so often? A regular basis for updates on Mac is very much longer than a regular basis for Windows in this case.
3. I would be glad to show you a list, but instead I'll give you a website! http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....3.1.1.0?68,38
You'll notice that popular games like Age of Empires II, Age of Mythology, AvP, Battlefield 1942, Call to Duty, Command and Conquer, Ghost Recon, Halo, Homeworld II, James Bond Nightfire, Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast, 4 Medal of Honor games, Rainbow 6, Spider-Man 2, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4, Unreal 2004, and Warcraft III are all available on Mac. This isn't even a complete list of Mac games.
4. My Mac has upgraded memory, HDD, and video card. You can build any computer you want, so long as you have the skill necessary. Mac users usually don't upgrade because they are happy with the performance of their computers right off the shelf and stock.
5. Personal prefrence, of course.
6. Yes, but you can put it anywhere you want. The dock can be compared to the strip at the bottom of Windows. If you minimize a window or program, it will be accecessable from the dock. The dock also holds applications and the trash (Mac version of a recycling bin).
7. Passing off an opinion as fact is not truth.
8. Covered above in 4
9. Emulators are a way around the real thing.
10. Apple Computers designes their Mac product line to work best with the OS designed with it, Mac OS. Someone using Windows exclusively on a Mac is missing the point.

just figured i would throw in my 0.02 about a few of the statements made within.

1) Saying a device is "missing" a button is basically like comparing a remote control to one tv to another. This remote is missing X number of buttons. My current keyboard has ~130 keys, and I use it like my old 104 keyboard. More buttons != better. Plus, as stated before, you can always use a different mouse. I was using a two button mouse for about a year before I fronted the cash for a new one, I wouldn't say it was "missing" a scrollwheel and it was for PC (although, I missed the scrollwheel)

2) Yes, I find OS X to be cumbersome (but not too bad), but I am also not a big fan of GUIs. My typical GUI has 3-6 console windows open, and that is it. Using menus and icons just isn't for me. However, this is my personal preference, it doesn't mean OS X is a bad operating system, it just means to me it is more difficult to use.

3) The application gap (other than with mainstream games) has closed significantly to almost the point of being nonexistant, although if you are a programmer and you typically program for a certain processer family, then another processer family doesn't do too much good (this becomes a PPC vs x86 debate then, which isn't a Mac vs Windows issue any longer)*


*Yes, I know that you can run other OS's on PPC and vice versa, but the fact is, most people with PPC use a Mac OS, and most people who use x86 don't, so it is best to stay with the group you are targetting.

My desktop is Windows XP, my laptop is OS X, my FTP/music/print server is OS X, my number crunching machine is NetBSD. Right, just pointing out that I'm both experienced and not loyal to the death for any brand.
There is a lot of bull flying through this thread.

OK, the right click thing.
Buy a two button USB mouse with a scrollwheel.
My OS X server has a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer on it (iThink that is what it's called...) It is optical, has two buttons and a scrollwheel. Problem sorted.

Games:
If you are a hardcore gamer, don't buy a mac. It's that simple. I play games, but not heavily. A bit of Warcraft 3 on the mac occasionally, a bit of Doom 3 on the XP machine, but I haven't touched either for a couple of weeks. If you might want to play occasionally, get whatever you want that fits your other needs.

General Software:
What do you do on your PC? The mac will handle word processing, internet use, programming, DTP, design and basically everything the average home user can throw at it. When it comes to specialised tasks, there are things that the Windows PC won't do, will do, and in between (I'm thinking POSIX tools here.) OS X will run POSIX with minor tweaking, and many useful things have been ported already.

Fiddling/tweaking:
Pick up a book on BSD and you will basically learn how to fiddle and tweak with an OS X machine to your hearts content.

I think that covers a lot of the main problems people have with the mac. I'll return to see what else can be thrown at us defenders as a whole :).
A little reminder at the bottom of this post as well, I use OS X, XP, BSD and occasionally linux.

*tapping pen on table*

... still waiting for software...

Well, this is an easy thread.

I can have a comp that performs better, for less money. It can play pretty much everything I want it to. I don't have to worry about "hard to find programs".

About "these comps don't need upgraded every year like PCs, so they don't need to be upgradable" Well, My new computer(See thread "New comp for doom3") will not need upgraded for quite a few years, I can assure you that much. Also, when it does need upgraded, it'll be cheaper for me to upgrade, than it is for you to buy a new comp.

Why buy a computer that can "work its way around" features, when you can just pay less, and get one with standard features.

With mac's thats what its all about, extra purchases so that you can run it more like "windows"

and when we name some software, what will you do? You'll search the internet and find a program "like" the one we name. All the while we are at staples buying the program we want.

Most if not all PC software won't work on Mac last time I checked. Everytime I go into Comp USA to buy software there's a Mac section that is made up of 2 or 3 shelves in the back.

Who buys software off the self anymore? :D Check over at amazon.com or warehouse.com or something.

Alright, I'll narrow my hatred down to a couple of facts.

1. They're way more expensive than PC's. You can't build it yourself. You can upgrade, but it's limited.

2. I don't like the OS. There is a big software library, but it's harder to find Mac software than PC software at a store and on the Internet.

That's my main concerns with Macs. The only thing that's not a fact is my not liking the OS (which is an opinion). The rest are facts...plain and simple. They're more expensive, less upgradeable, and the software (while plentiful) isn't as large as the PC-based software. Why use a system that has less software than a PC? MacOS and Macs may get the job done, but if another system gets it done with more software and more support, I don't see a reason to use a Mac.

-Lasereth

willravel: damn right! and i accept your apology =P

I think most people on here just assume everyone uses windows because most people don't know there is anything else out there.

Macs are, and have been for the last decade or so, professional machines. It's honestly like comparing a Mercedes to a beat-up old Ford. Sure, you can build a Ford yourself from a kit, and for a lot less than a mercedes. Parts are everywhere. If you build it well enough, it'll probably go a lot faster. But hell, I'd still much rather have a Mercedes than a beat up old Ford. Or even over a shiny nice new Ford. It's a matter of taste =)

brandon...I'm still not clear.....are you very fluent in XP or not? heheheh. You don't need to keep saying it.

why doesn't a new mac just come with a damn 2 or 3 button mouse? everyone just says "buy one", but if these machines come with the instructions as put in this thread "plug in, power on", then why would you need to buy a mouse separately? and for the price, I don't see why you would have to add on. Dell/Compaq provides a 2 button mouse w/a scroll wheel, why not the mac? It's the little touch that means so much.

and you can't do it all w/just one mouse button...it's one mouse button, AND the keyboard, damnit. apple+click, right?

IMO, the bottom line is:

I build, but even if I didn't, Mac vs. Dell, dollar for dollar, is a no win situation for the mac. And nothing has to be assembled w/the dell either.

Windows gets a bad rap, because 90% of the world uses it, so yes, there are more trojans, virus', etc. Now if Mac did what Windows does, and made it so it could work on 1000's of different hardware configs, perhaps that % would drop. Linux is still difficult for the layman, which is why more people are not using it, and honestly, macs are too expensive, which is why more people are not using them. If mac had the guts to make their system work with my pc config, I would try running OSX. Until then, I will not waste my money on sub-par hardware to run the mac OS. XP and 2kadvanced server have been nothing but good to me.

A better question perhaps is why is everyone so defensive of Macs? We don't like them for the reasons we've laid out above. Which is what you asked for. I've read the whole thread and haven't come accross one reason to switch to Mac. There is nothing it will do better for me than my home-built pc.

A simple analysis of PCs versus Macs:

Will Macs do everything that PCs will? No. Will PCs do everything that Macs will do? Yes. Are PCs less expensive than Macs? Yes.

That's it! If you like MacOS better, fine, but we're stating clear reasons why we like PC's better.

-Lasereth

Actually: Will Macs do everything that Windows will? Not without an emulator. Will Windows do everything that Macs will do? Of course not. Whoever thinks that they can do anything on Windows as can be done on a Mac has not used Macs extensivly enough to make such a claim. This is not a clear reason. It is missinformation.
Bottom line (and there always is one) is that it comes down to brand prefrence. One is not better than the other. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. It's like saying Coke is better than Pepsi.

Yet most of this thread you've been insinuating that Macs are the far superior OS...

On the security issue, sure windows may be less secure generally than Mac OSX (which is a unix kernel if I am not mistaken) however if the same number of virus writers turned their attentions to Mac os as they do to windows then Mac Os would probably need patched as well, as it is its not worth hitting Mac's with a virus because there are not enough to make a difference... imagine spamming microsoft with say 10,000 requests, 100,000, 1,000,000 or say even 10,000,000... not a lot compared to the number of PC you can hit becuase their users will click on an attatchment that comes in, what is the current ratio of mac's to Windows machines, I am willing to bet that the market share of windows computers is greater than Mac OS computers, say 95-98 / 5-2 ...

This is proposterous. Everyone of my posts has tried to explain that certian beliefs about Macs are myths. The only actual insinuation against Windows was that the constant updates are annoying. You need to read the whole thread and think about it before trying to attack someone.

Whether Mac is superrior or not is moot to the point of the thread. This is about why people hate Mac. There ARE people out there with unfounded hatred towards Mac and Mac OS. This is a thread to address them.

You have succeded in only one thing: pissing me off. Your unfounded insinuation was a blatent attack on me personally. TFP is for people who can show respect for others. My suggestion to you would be to avoid attacking people. The Mods are very specific about behavior on this site.

Angelic Vampire: I couldn't agree more. The market share for Mac is about 2% as of a few weeks ago. It would probably be a waste of time to try and infect Macs. It's a good point. There are Mac viruses out there, though.

Tell you why I choose to run a mac as well as my other platforms:
It just works. It's that simple. Over the last 4 years I have been running 3 macs. I cannot remember a single time the computer has crashed or needed me to reboot it.

Yet you attacked me earlier in this very thread. Hypocrite! :thumbsup:

-Lasereth

If the updates are really that annoying to get updates all you have to do is set it up to download and install windows updates automatically. It's not that hard.

Rebooting:

Are you really going to make a claim that Macs are better because of a 60 second once/day (or even week) reboot is that much of an inconvenience? lol

First, let me say that I have plenty of experience on both Mac and PC.

I feel the need to have what I want in my PC like I feel the need to have what I want in a car: some manufacturers make things that suit me better. Macs have a very limited list of third party hardware. So I guess I like PC's better because I need versatility. Second, almost all games come out much later on Mac than they do on PC. 'Nuff said.

Macs are great for stuff like graphic design, music composition, word processing, and similar applications, but that's about it. OSX Panther is making strides, but I still need a PC.

No dude. I did not attack you. What I did was take apart your argument. You claimed that you can't use a right click mouse on a Mac. I said you could. This is a normal conversation. It was based on my knowledge of Macs. I simply corrected you. If you view my correcting you as an attack, I'm sorry you see it that way. It wasn't intended that way.
What Fallon said is that I was expressing a bias. This was wrong and didn't address the theme of the thread at all. It was a personal attack. I responded appropriatally.

Let's keep on topic.

Third time now I've posted it....


Newsbin Pro
Proxomitron



Only two but these are two apps I refuse to live without at this time.

Alright, after quickly skimming through various responses....I have this to say....
Someone probably mentioned this already but anyway....

Neither is better than the other...it all depends on what you want to do with it..

Like it was mentioned before but I can't remember who, the mac is mainly designed for digital media design...The PC is an all around system but with some things that the MAC is better at. It just all depends on what your computer is going to be used for.

I have a decent amount of experience in digital design and system administration and I have to say the Macintosh far surpasses Windows in this domain....and here you can say PC Sucks

However, if you are a gamer then turn away from the mac...you won't find anything here...and this is where you will say the mac sucks..

If you are a programmer, but one who can adapt to many different environments, remember OS X is built over unix, so you can do almost anything you want...just need the patience to read a few documents on how to use certain features you might not know existed in the Apple environment

...However if you are a programmer who is a Microsoft monkey then think no more my dear friends...for we all know Microsoft = Windows.....hence you have no use for a mac and PC is your way to go.

People always attack Mac cause its the "cool" thing to do...cause you're stupid if you like mac....well you can be stupid if you like Windows too....it just all depends on what you want to use your computer for.

I do have to say though, I agree with alot of you people who complained about the customization of the hardware in the Mac...you're very limited there and the price does hurt.

I have been a PC user for about 6 years now, and owned a MAC for about 10 years of my life before my change to PC...Currently, however I am looking in to getting an apple to revamp my network here at home....

Oh, and to close the argument about the mouse thing.....at my last job I worked on a powerbook and I attached the logitech MX700 to it and I used ALL the buttons on that mouse....so YES YOU CAN ATTACH DOUBLE BUTTON MICE TO A MAC AND IT WILL WORK PERFECTLY! :)

cheers

You said I didn't know PC's extensively even though I showed no reasoning for that. That's an attack! And damn right, let's keep it on topic. I don't care if ya defend against my claims, but you did say that I didn't know much about PC's. That was uncalled for.

Either way, I agree that this thread is useless. People who enjoy Macs will enjoy Macs and people who enjoy PCs will enjoy PCs.

-Lasereth

I'd probably use a Mac if all the gaming Windows has was supported by Mac, other
than that, no complaints.

What I said was that because you made such an obvious mistake (the Mac right click mistake) the rest of the information on Mac was suspect.

"If he is not aware of something as simple as mouse ability on an Apple made computer, he does not know very much about Macs, much like someone who does not know the pothagorean therum is not going to be a good mathemitician. Becuase this information source is now suspect, the rest of the information presented is also suspect. He may know a great deal about PCs, but he might not. He claimed to have used Macs extensively but made a simple error."

You were very selective in your understanding of what I said. I said that you may know a great deal of PCs, but you might not. You lost credibility with the mouse claim and I pointed it out. I DID NOT SAY THAT YOU DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT PCS. I said that you might or night not. Do you understand the difference? You think I said you didn't know PCs, I said you might or might not know PCs. See the difference?

I built my PC.
I cannot build a Mac.
There are more viruses because everybody uses Microsoft Windows. If you are a virus writer, do you want to target 90% of the people, or 10% of the people? Viruses/spyware are easily avoidable by the knowledgeable user. Any person can buy a computer for $300 bucks, get internet access, open every attachment and spread viruses to more people.

PC > Mac

Soccerchamp, I built my Mac. I bought an eMac and wanted a larger HDD, more memory, and a better video card. So I went out and bought the necessary parts and installed them. That is basically building. If you want to buy Mac parts seperatly, you can. You can buy a PPC motherboard and slap it in a tower just as you would with any other motherboard. You can build off of it if you want.
Also, GO CARDINALS!!!

You're forgetting what ya said earlier.

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/threadeject.jpg>

-Lasereth

I didn't have time to read through all the other posts, so if some of my reasons are already listed and discussed, I'm sorry.

The reasons:

I like more than one mouse button.
I like the mouse wheel.
I like being able to turn off the comp with the power button.
I like being able to eject a cd without going through command list.
I prefer the way that windows looks.
I like having the standard system commands available no matter what program I have running(unless it's a game or other full screen program.)


And I know that many of you are going to think I'm crazy and an idiot for saying this, but I like having a system that doesn't work all the time and has problems.

I have an explanation for this last one. If the computer worked fine and had nothing go wrong with it, then I would never have any reason to go into the utilities and advanced commands. I would know a lot less about computers than I know now if I didn't have to deal with problems. I consider dealing with the various windows problems as part of learning about computers, it gives me hands on experience in learning part of how the operating system does what it does.
Although, sometimes the problems can just be a real pain in the ass and make me want to kill bill gates.

And so it has been settled by mage....we must kill Bill Gates

who's coming with?

1. I *built* My PC and I enjoy *building* my pc. Buying parts off a store shelf and slapping them into a pre-built system is UPGRADING, not building. I choose my tower, Motherboard, mobo, ram, expansion cards etc... and put everything together from scratch.

2. CHEAPER! I dont even need to explain this one.

3. Gaming. One again, no need to explain.

4. I despise the way MacOSX looks. It irritates me beyond belief and makes me want to kill small italians. No particular reason for that... It just does.

5. I also use Linux as well as Windows so Mac is out right there.

6. I cant stand the way Macs look. Like something from a Barbie doll... yeech.

As a side note. I'd like to point out that most people are assuming that PC means "Windows PC". I think thats wrong since the thread title isnt why you prefer windows, its why you dont like Macs. Regardless of the percentage of the market that linux shares, it still falls under the PC category and should not be dismissed as such.
If this minor rant made no sense, I apologize, Im heavily medicated and tired as hell. I'll edit it to make more sense later.

I have a 3 button mouse with a scrollwheel. Right here.

My mac goes right to sleep with a touch of the power button. If I hold it down, it powers off.

There's a nice button, right here on my standard Apple keyboard, that ejects disks. Right next to the volume controls.


I'm starting to think this thread was a bad idea. In fact, I'm damn sure it was. Asking a question like this just invites hostile argument which has no place on the TFP.

Dude, you call that "building?" I see a major difference in thought processes here. That is not building anything. That is paying a lot more cash for something because what you bought wasn't good enough. We can do that with pcs, too. It's called upgrading specific parts because they are outdated or not powerfull enough.

Try building a Mac from scratch. Oh, wait; you can't. That means if you want the best you have to blow $2,000.00 or more on a G5. And then you still have to get a better video card, if you're me. So what's the point? There is none. You like your Mac...that's great....go enjoy it and stop assuming we don't know what we're talking about. Different strokes man, deal with it.

Agreed.....

Why can't you build a Mac? All the parts are available for individual sale and can be put into a standard tower. You can buy a Mac motherboard and a PC motherboard together in one tower if you want. One of my friends did that and he actually got it working. People rarely build Macs, that is most certianlly true. It can be done. Just the same as you can build anything else. It takes the right expert experience and knowledge.

Some people on here know what they are talking about. Bendsley corrected a mistake I made at the end of page 1. I was being sloppy and put PC when I meant Windows. It happenes that a lot of people don't know what they are talking about. They assume that because they know Windows and PCs backwards and forwards, they know Mac. They are different animals. They have some similarities, but they also have some big differences. Not knowing that a multi button mouse works on a Mac is a perfect example. Several people thought that one button was it. This is a basic mistake and usually signifies a true lack of familiarity with Mac. The thread asked why people hate Mac. People said because of the mouse. This isn't fair. That's like me saying I hate Hondas because they don't have a carbon fiber shift knob and you can't add one on later. You can get one on there, and it can go on so easily that it souldn't be a factor. These are the myths that nee addressing. I can appreciate brand prefrence, but not knowing the other brand and bashing it with things that aren't true is much different.

My interpritation of this thread is that brandon, like myself, is sick of Windows people bashing Macs for no reason. I have never bashed Windows, or a person who uses Windows. It's silly to me. I hear things like "Mac's don't have any games" and things of that sort on a weekly basis from someone who really knows about PCs. I don't know where this bad information is coming from, but it's not from experience.

All back and fourth aside, there has to be a bottom line to all of this. My bottom line (i.e. my last post on this thread) is that I love Macs. If I were given a choice between a Mac and a PC, I would choose a Mac. If you were to choose a PC from that selection, that's all well and fine with me. Both have their goods and bads. Don't pester me for my decision, though. Leave me to my decision, as I have left you to yours. It is simply a matter of what you want in a computer. It is not about telling other people how their choice sucks. I don't want to hear about building a computer instead of buying it whole. I don't want to hear about Halo not being available for Mac yet. I know what my computer is capable of and what it's not capable of. It is the people who constantly have a snide little remark to say whenever they hear the word 'Mac' on the wind that ruins the whole thing. CUT IT OUT! In my experience, the people who know the most about computers say to each their own and leave it at that.

When it's cheaper to buy at the store than pay for shipping smart guy.

ok, go to newegg.com. Free shipping :)

willravel, that is not building, that is upgrading parts. I can upgrade the memory and HD in my laptop, would I dare to say that I built it? No. I could instruct my brother, who is computer illiterate, on how to upgrade memory over the phone. You know what I'm saying..

Do you mean to say that I can purchase, separately, the newest, latest mac motherboard, mac processor, etc, or used parts? If so, what store offers these parts separately? apple.com?

And PLEASE direct me to where I can purchase a tower with 2 motherboards installed... :cool:

They don't do it so much now, because of the price, but they used to sell PCI x86 based motherboards for macs, so you could run native x86 code on it when you needed to.
You can buy the latest motherboards, but not over the counter, you have to know someone unfortunately.

I agree with this, but I do believe that your simile leaves something to be desired. I see the mac more as being the Compact sedan or Minivan of the car industry, because Macs come premade with bells and whistles and most people don't end up modding them too heavily. Then I see a homebuilt custom x86 system and I consider that to be the same as a hotrod or a modified sports car simply due to the ability of control.

I ASK YOU ALL, WHERE ARE BIOS CONTROLS ON A MAC?

Can you even control clock speeds, voltages, and multipliers with the motorola chips that Macs use? Is it possible? (no really, I don't know, please answer this one.)

Mac are great for 3 things: education, audio editing, and video editing. Everything else you might as well have a PC. Macs lack software and user support base. Where does a mac user turn to for help when everyone and their cousin uses windows on their PC. Hear about rad new program that gots you interested, shame no mac version. Fighting off the microsoft monopoly, your just joining the apple monopoly instead-they not only made the OS but the computer and many of the programs you use. All this combined with premium prices are why macs are hated and in the minority. If apple could get more software support they'd do alot better.

There is no reason I 'hate Macintosh computers' - I would buy some in a heartbeat if money were not an issue, but the only possible problem I might have is support for multiple audio codecs that have full windows support. Wish I had at least a powerbook to try though.
Openoffice and the GIMP are both available for that platform and they would be enough anything I would use such a machine for aside from the audio work.

The only thing wrong with Mac is that not enough people use them and they are not yet localised to Russian. It is a complete mystery to me why anyone would use a PC unless they were very poor or uninformed or had extreme niche software requirements.

The core reason of why I hate Macintosh (or rather dislike Macintosh) is a rather interesting reason. And if this comment turns this flame-war into a a holocaust, I'll eject and be done with it!

I dislike Macintosh because 90% of every Mac-user I've ever met in my entire life act like Macintosh computers are the GODSEND to the computing world. They bash PCs to the point of absurdity and act like their Mac was forged by the Hand of God. It happens all the time. I realize that a lot of PC users are like that too, but I generally keep an optimistic perspective on Macs. I don't bash Macs unless the evangelists start, well, evangelizing about how good their Mac is and how bad my PC is. I mean, if you like Macs, and you need what a Mac offers, good. If you like PCs, and you need what a PC offers, good! But please, for the love of God, stop being so defensive.

This goes for you PC users too who constantly bash Macintosh :)

I was a mac basher for the longest time, until I grudgingly bought my wife a Powerbook (she's a Mac lover) with OSX. After she let me use it for a night she told me to keep my hands off of it. Needless to say I bought myself a TiBook shortly afterwards.

Mac, PC, they're both tools. Use what you feel most comfortable with.

I don't like that I can't play as many games on my mac and I hate the price premium.

All of you need to read the Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. It handles this argument very well.

I am a gamer

I am a hardware enthusiest

All the mac owners that i know personally believe macs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and bash the hell out of pc's

The stupid Switch adds.....the people in thoes adds are complete morons

frist Real computer i ever used was a mac, and i currently own both mac's and pc's, I love my G5, and my pc. Mac's i use for my editing, general web browsing, etc. Pc for publishing web sites, gameing, and general web browsing also. Somethings i love my mac for and somethings i love my pc for. I like being able to Build my own systems off the store shelfs, Which i cannot do for a mac. thats the only problem i have and its not even major.

It's not the Mac, it's the Mac freak.
 

I don't hate mac computers, I hate people who won't leave me alone about the Mac thing. They seem to live in some kind of dream world where everyone has a Mac and everything works together seamlessly. Why is it not ok for me to have a PC? It's as if Mac users are really concerned that my platform is not all it could be. If you're that concerned, but me one. Other than that, stop acting like 2-year olds and telling me at every junction of life how a Mac would keep food colder than my fridge, get me to work more economically than my car, make my lunch faster, do my taxes all by itself, and even raise my kids better.

It's not the mac, it's the guy who won't leave me alone about the mac.

ps. I'm bitter, yeah. sorry about that.

also, I can't spell

if I had a mac, I could spell better

You make some really insightful and eye opening points here. I thought the Switch ads were stupid too, until I switched and realized it was all true. Everything I had bashed them about was in error. There are few, if any, software issues, and there is an abundance of hardware available. I am not a gamer, and I have yet to run into any software that is available on PC that is not on Mac. Someone mentioned that the Mac and PC thing is like the beautiful luxury car (think E55 AMG) off the showroom floor, or the ricer that the kid put together from other parts. Sure the ricer may be faster, but an E55 AMG is an E55 AMG.

I should let you all know that I did not intend for this to become a flame war/pissing contest. I just wanted honest opinions on why others do not like the Macintosh platform. I have never found myself to be more passionate for something like I now am for Mac's. I am currently writing a ten page paper for class on them and their history. I also do not appreciate others calling my thread useless, as I did not come into their "mega videocard buying guide" thread and do so.

Macs are better for video editting (less stutter) and that's about it. As a big computer gamer I also shun Macs since so few games get ported over. The upgrade issue is also a big issue for me, I don't like the idea of not being able to upgrade things myself as I go along. And this may just be my geekiness talking, but I like to have a computer I can get elbows deep in tweaking things :)

WAY back when I had an Amiga when Mac's came out.

There was a bit of a 'geek war' between the Amiga and the Mac.

Being an Amiga user I had to hate Macs. Sure its 20 years later now, but damn it, those Mac people suck!

1. Limited software (read: game) support
2. Limited hardware support
3. Can't tweak the OS like you can in windows

My post was edited by Cynthetiq because I made an offensive comment and earned an Official Warning.

im not to sure about this car analogy....sure an E55 AMG is a nice car.....but i would take a ferarri over a mercedes any day

http://www.voodoopc.com/systems/tower.aspx

and personally i find these more esthetically apealing then any mac